Talk:Tarbula

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A fact from Tarbula appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 April 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Saint Tarbula of Persia was martyred by being cut in half by a saw after being accused of witchcraft?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Tarbula.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by PrimalMustelid talk 17:46, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that Saint Tarbula of Persia was martyred by being cut in half by saw after being accused of witchcraft? Source: Dunbar, Agnes B.C. (1901). A Dictionary of Saintly Women. Vol. 2. London: George Bell & Sons, p. 239
- ALT1: ... that Saint Tarbula of Persia, who was martyred by being cut in half by saw, could have been saved by sleeping with her accusers? Source: "Virgin Martyr Pherbutha (Phermoutha) of Persia, with Her Sister, and Servant". Orthodox Church of America.
- Reviewed: 1. Template:Did you know nominations/Kirby: King of Comics; 2. Template:Did you know nominations/John Morin Scott (mayor)

Created by Figureskatingfan (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 50 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:39, 29 March 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Date, size, refs, copyvio, GTG. Needs second QPQ review. Also approving only ALT0, not ALT1, which I find not substantiated by the text, where it is stated she was asked for it, but there is no evidence this happened. A different hook related to this, based on what the text says, might indeed be good in attracting views - ping me if it is proposed and I'll take a look. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 23:37, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Finally gotten around to second QPQ. I'm good with going with ALT0. @Piotrus: pinging as requested. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:16, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - Then. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 22:49, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unreliable sources[edit]

I have tagged this article for having unreliable sourcing. For example:

Dunbar 1901, cited four times, is problematic per WP:OLDSOURCES, WP:PARTISAN and some of WP:SCHOLARSHIP; the author claims no scholarly authority for herself, as noted in the preface, and notes that she has essentially compiled primary sources and Catholic writers. In the case of Tarbula, this is Sozomen (also cited in the article) and a history from the priest John Mason Neale, who in turn also primarily cites Sozomen.
Sozomen, being a writer from around fifty years after Tarbula's reported death, is clearly a primary source, and a WP:PARTISAN one at that, being heavily prejudiced towards Christianity and against the Persians.
At least we have a recent source, Jensen 1996. None of her critical analysis on what Tarbula's story says about her society actually makes it into this article, though. Instead, we have uncritical description of the source that describes her: a certain Sozomen.
And as for this source, it doesn't say what their sources are, or who the author is, or anything that could help us call it reliable.

~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:50, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Many if not most ancient sources can said to be biased and life of lesser known martyrs all carry with them an idealized image as well as a scarcity of sources. Sozomen is the only source we can draw from that is near -contemporary wich makes it the most reliable. Though the source can be approached with a more objective eye and be more clearly reflected in the text. Sfar13 (talk) 08:55, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Sfar13, that's a good point. For the past four years and under the auspices of WikiProject Women in Religion, I've become committed to improving the quality of bios of obscure female Christian saints, in order to fill both the gender gap and an important topic gap. One of the things I've learned is this undertaking can be challenging, especially regarding finding sources. (Actually, that's a challenge with most of the articles under the project's auspices.) The solution is to do as Sfar13 suggests and reflect these concerns in the text. Easily done, and something I promise to take care of, at least with Sozomen. Pinging @AirshipJungleman29 to ensure that they see these responses. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:50, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]