Talk:The Tortured Poets Department

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Bruxton talk 05:16, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Created by Louwasrobbed (talk). Nominated by MaranoFan (talk) at 17:19, 5 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/The Tortured Poets Department; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

  • Article is new and long enough (created today, RPS 2545 B). Sourcing looks good to me and Earwig checks out (only flagged bits are the direct quotes, which are cited and correctly attributed). Hook is interesting and cited inline in the article. QPQ has been completed. Looks good to go. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 17:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With 256 Edits and 122 editors over two days so this article is not stable. Lightburst (talk) 01:59, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I will promote this, the article is looking stable now. 420k views wow. Bruxton (talk) 05:16, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Track listing[edit]

Is it necessary to split the track listing simply because the artist has showcased it this way? Also, replacing Variety for BuzzFeed News also feels quite undue? Surely the "sides" are simply how they're to be split on vinyl, but is not how they're showcased for all physical / digital formats? A simple not over complete track listing showcase would better suit the article? livelikemusic (TALK!) 18:23, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. A simple track listing would be better for the article. HorrorLover555 (talk) 18:34, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'll ask the inverse - why would we list it in any other way other than how the artist has listed it? - Fuzheado | Talk 21:04, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:STATUSQUO. livelikemusic (TALK!) 21:23, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see the relevance. We don't synthesize our own listing style of what artists and composers put down as their structure (e.g. Symphony_No._5_(Beethoven)#Form, Akhnaten_(opera)#Synopsis, Hamilton_(musical)#Musical_numbers). We shouldn't do that here either. - Fuzheado | Talk 00:08, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because that is clearly the back cover of the vinyl, and not how the track listing will be rendered digitally (which is how the majority of consumers will listen to the album, as that accounts for something like 90+% of music consumption), nor on CD or cassette. I'm not seeing some deliberate intention on Swift's part that the album is intended solely to be a vinyl experience or that the sides are themed or the like. I believe we should go back to how the songs were listed first, per User:Livelikemusic. In fact, this discussion should be for if we should split it into vinyl sides, not if we should go back to how it was in the first place. Ss112 13:53, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Until the album is actually released, the points above are WP:CRYSTAL ball speculation about the vinyl format. Concluding that the grouping is not important and should be flattened constitutes original research. Both of these practices are frowned upon. Instead, we should reflect what is in the source material/artwork and what reliable sources say about it. The main recording and entertainment industry news outlets are providing not just the raw list but the "sides" groupings as well: Variety, The Hollywood Reporter, Rolling Stone, Deadline, and more.
Even more, Entertainment Weekly raises the fact that "sides" may not just be sides:
So what does it all mean? There's a lot to potentially unpack here. The sides could just be the way the vinyls shook out, or maybe each grouping tells a different story, or utilizes a different sound — this is Swift after all.
For a community that should be assembling reliable knowledge, I'm astonished to see the arguments for removal of information when there are significant signals about their significance. Reproducing the track list as Swift has released it is the most accurate, responsible, policy-adhering, and logical thing to do. - Fuzheado | Talk 16:54, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia's music section hasn't been about reliable knowledge for a long time. Most of the editors probably don't respect the artistic format or understand the semantic value in things like title stylizations, for example. This is honestly what you get when a bunch of people who know nothing about what they are talking about, who have no training in linguistics, literature, historiography, or writing encyclopedias are allowed to set arbitrary rules and make changes every which way.
But this is why we are here - to check them. Wikipedia's guidelines are deliberately not set in stone for a reason.
I agree with you that we should not be removing meaning, and that some of the reasons meaning has been removed go completely against Wikipedia's neutrality (calling things "fan-driven" for example, would be in violation of this). Unfortunately, we have to change the current guidelines to be more sensible.
I do have to disagree though that putting tracks in an uncategorized list constitutes original research, because I don't think it does. It certainly removes meaning and historical facts, though. If only Wikipedia editors actually cared about those things. They seem to not know the purpose of what an Encyclopedia should be... Krixano (talk) 05:09, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support restoring the original 16-track layout with no separation into vinyl sides. It's silly this is even something we're questioning. Ss112 13:55, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Restore the tracklist to standard layout per livelikemusic and Ss112. Dylx 16:15, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per livelikemusic WildChild300Talk to me! 17:35, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I already agree with both Livelikemusic and Ss112, so Support. HorrorLover555 (talk) 03:43, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per livelikemusic's and Ss112's arguments. It makes absolutely no sense to split the tracklists in all those different parts. It's not like each side represents a unique lyrical or sonic theme that sets it apart. Lk95 (talk) 12:52, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Your statement ventures into the area of original research. See the Entertainment Weekly [1] piece described above. - Fuzheado | Talk 14:28, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That article is speculating, using words like "potentially" and "maybe", and has nothing to do with how the track list should be formatted in the table. It may be referenced in the "Composition" section but doesn't justify a formatting change like this. Dylx 14:35, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 6 February 2024[edit]

Remove

"Loml" redirects here. For other uses, see Love of My Life.

Digitalfawn (talk) 22:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:15, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's perfectly clear what change they want to be made: remove the hatnote. It's less clear to me why they think that should be done. BlueSwede92 (talk) 01:41, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Album name[edit]

Technically the album is written in all caps, should we also write it that way ? It's written THE TORTURED POETS DEPARTMENT on all official accounts. Diamant580 (talk) 18:07, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Diamant580: I don't think so. See WP:TITLEFORMAT and MOS:ALLCAPS for policies and guidelines related to using title case here. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 05:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, per MOS:MUSICCAPS, and in case it's suggested, I object to any attempt to place a pointless parenthesized "stylized in all caps" note here as well. (This practice ought to be phased out.) Ss112 08:23, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why? Is wikipedia not intended to be an accurate representation of history? Removing stylizations makes wikipedia less useful for historical research because meaning is often tied to stylizations (like capitalizing certain letters that spell something out, as in the track "thanK you aIMee"). You are losing historical facts by doing this. Krixano (talk) 04:23, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So is there a hidden meaning behind the stylization of the album name itself? Because as far as I can tell, stylizations for songs like "thanK you aIMee" are already noted in the article, and this discussion is about the capitalization of the album title. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 13:24, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Stylization information is very valuable. The fact that something was published written in all caps or all lowercase is useful information by nature. It allows the person to picture the stylization of the actual titles of and in the album without needing to actually find the album to know that tracks were stylized a certain way. It lets the reader know how the artist intended for it to be written. I do not know why this long-held practice is suddenly controversial and the subject of an edit war on this page with one user threatening to block other users who add this information? aaronneallucas (talk) 04:23, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm specifically referring to the fact that not even notations are being allowed on this article like "stylized in all caps". Why? aaronneallucas (talk) 04:25, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vinyl variants?[edit]

Can a list of all vinyl variants be added or is that redundant 2605:AD80:4F:91D4:60C4:CA9A:E60:8C0E (talk) 00:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Album Genre[edit]

Apple Music now lists this album as pop. If you pre add the album, just below the album cover and name it says Pop-2024. We should include this somewhere in the article. Mr Imeime (talk) 01:31, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As it stands, we should not. Genres should be supported by reliable sources (i.e. articles, reports), not consumer labels, as you suggest. EdrianJustine (talk) 01:34, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No source is 100% reliable. Genres are subjective to begin with. This is the came BS that wikipedia editors use to justify their bias towards "critics" over everyone else with an opinion. It's more important to know what the artist intended as that conveys something historical that you cannot get by just analyzing the music itself, which could lead to differing conclusions from the artist (or "consumer labels") and even from different music scholars. Krixano (talk) 04:27, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion the album sounds like a mixture of pop + alternative folk/rock. Its kinda mixture of everything. Why not including the genre of alternative in the genre column? We dont necessarily need a reliable source as a support. Clearly the album is not synth pop 2405:3800:902:1AED:0:0:0:1 (talk) 10:13, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 25 March 2024[edit]

It is mentioned that the tortured poets only had a collector's edition for the manuscript, but it had a collector's edition for each bonus track limited edition. It should be changed. Sushiandrei (talk) 19:36, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. PianoDan (talk) 20:36, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the links to the posts made by the official instagram account of Taylor Nation (Taylor Swift's management) showcasing the collector's edition cds of the other bonus tracks, the bolter, the albatross, and the black dog:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3cqS1_upTB/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3tDYvDPjiz/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4Gny9nup9u/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Sushiandrei (talk) 16:33, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This seems to already be mentioned. Under § Background and release: Four physical editions of the album, each titled after and containing a bonus track, namely "The Manuscript", "The Bolter", "The Albatross", and "The Black Dog", have also been made available for purchase; Swift announced the latter three editions during the Asia-Pacific leg of the Eras Tour, her sixth headlining concert tour. What specific changes would you propose to this wording? 〜 Askarion ✉ 02:49, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Manuscript[edit]

Track length: 4:02 Swiftie4Eva (talk) 00:58, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done - no source provided. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 15:01, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

this album will include tracks such as "loml" that have fans wondering if her lyrical style will change or stay the same.[edit]

this album will include tracks such as "loml" that have fans wondering if her lyric writing will change or stay the same. 2001:56A:FC76:9500:3056:16C:3E0:F559 (talk) 02:08, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Title Stylizations[edit]

I have reverted a change on title stylizations because I felt it went against Wikipedia's neutrality (the reasoning for the change was that it was "fan-driven"), and because it was a removal of important contextual meaning. I feel that we should discuss the value of title stylizations, as they add important semantic meaning, and are also important for historical reliability.Krixano (talk) 05:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I also want to remind people that the Wikipedia's guidelines are against changes and reverts being made during discussions: WP:STATUSQUO Krixano (talk) 05:19, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also want to note that noting title stylizations does not go against MOS:MUSICCAPS (@Livelikemusic). Krixano (talk) 05:26, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For full transparency, I have added a broader discussion on title stylizations here: Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Music. While the guidelines of MOS:MUSICCAPS state that works should be capitalized in a traditional status quo way, it does not exclude one from noting stylizations. Regardless, this guideline needs to be severely questioned. Krixano (talk) 05:34, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have added references to the title stylizations @User:Pbritti. Krixano (talk) 06:14, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The notes are not within MOS and are not from ideal sources. Please refrain from reinserting them. ~ Pbritti (talk) 06:17, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As noted in Wikipedia:Reliable_sources, context matters. The sources I added are reliable because in the context of the music industry, Apple, Spotify, Amazon, and other music publishers get their information from the tracklist provided by both the artist (and their label) and the CDs and Vinyls.
"The reliability of a source depends on context. Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Wikipedia article and is an appropriate source for that content." Krixano (talk) 06:25, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
RS explicitly allows linking to music streaming sites @User:Pbritti, so you are incorrect.
"... inline citations may be allowed to e-commerce pages such as that of a book on a bookseller's page or an album on its streaming-music page, in order to verify such things as titles and running times." Krixano (talk) 06:28, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but you're not doing that properly and may be allowed is not a blanket license to use said sources. Further, they remained improperly formatted. Please do not add them again. Allow a more experienced editor to handle that. ~ Pbritti (talk) 06:32, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I did not add them back, but since someone else did, I believe I have revised them to format them more correctly. As to how they should be inlined, I do not kno wif this means something specific, so someone else can fix that. Krixano (talk) 06:35, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
None of the tracklist is cited. Are you going to remove those as well? Just asking? This feels like an edit war, and I believe you've misinterpreted the guidelines on edit wars. Krixano (talk) 06:37, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Pbritti, the names of well-known works do not need to be cited, as described in the article Wikipedia:You don't need to cite that the sky is blue: "Not citing common knowledge and not providing bibliographic entries for very famous works is also consistent with major academic style guides, such as The MLA Style Manual and the APA style guide."
It is also consistent with standard practice for Wikipedia Music articles, which typically do not add references to track list titles, but will provide them for the credits.
Additionally, it is also standard that streaming sites may be used as references for albums, as demonstrated in various other Music Wikipedia pages. Here's an example, Fearless_(Taylor's_Version)#Personnel, where the personnel credits are adapted from Tidal. Citation pedantry is not useful or productive. Krixano (talk) 07:17, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Krixano has a point. Becoming so granular with citation requirements is more harmful than helpful. We should include the stylization information. There is no good reason why someone would not want to have access to that information? aaronneallucas (talk) 16:46, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is a formal notice that I will be bowing out of this discussion, because I take internet cults very seriously, and after spending several hours reading a lot of user interaction here on Wikipedia, I have decided in my best judgement that this is an unsafe environment that I would consider to be an internet cult. I apologize to anyone expecting me to continue the discussion, but I cannot do that. You can view my User page, if it remains up, for additional reasons to this decision. Krixano (talk) 12:07, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tagging Ss112 into this discussion, as they previously have vast experience in this area. livelikemusic (TALK!) 14:23, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a violation of MUSICCAPS. Noting the stylisations is not writing the track titles in such stylisations when the track listing shows all titles in standard naming conventions while the stylisations are regulated to the "Notes" subsection. Ippantekina (talk) 14:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Music and lyrics[edit]

Tom Breihan encapsulated the sound of the album in his review, that I think it would enrich this section; "Musically, Swift has fallen into a holding pattern of soft-thrumming synthpop and even softer quasi-folk. The sounds and patterns — the gentle keyboard twinkles, the tick-tock drum machines, the shivery chords, the murmuring multi-tracked backup vocals — are all played out. (...) Swift continues to sing almost everything in her sleepy, whispery, conversational lower register, going for some version of Lana Del Rey’s languor. The sound is pretty. It’s rich and pillowy and reassuring and low-energy (...)." It would work for her artistry section too. Giorgio Zeniquel (talk) 22:21, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Anthology in lead[edit]

Shouldn't we also discuss briefly the production and sound of The Anthology in the lead? I did so in this old revision but as of the current revision it's been removed. Ippantekina (talk) 05:51, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Toronto Star[edit]

@Ronherry: what's with the double standard? You removed Toronto Star because it is "Not a prominent music publication" yet leave in four similar British newspapers that are not music publications either. In fact, you removed the Toronto Star review entirely from the article and did not even bother incorporating it in the prose. That's really egregious and goes against WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM. Toronto Star is one of the major newspapers in Canada and providing publications from varied locations aligns with WP:WORLDVIEW and WP:NPOV. I'm not saying it must be included in the reviews table, but I do not appreciate completely removing the source from the article as if it is useless and then leaving in four similar newspapers that are British that go against your own criteria. Heartfox (talk) 12:50, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I removed it from the ratings box. I'm not against including it in the article. There is no need to type out such a passive aggressive text to express your concern regarding that. You're free to add Toronto Star to the critical reception prose if you want to. I thought it's a regional paper, and it's primarily not a music/art reviewing publication. The ratings box is for the standard music reviewing publications. Regards. ℛonherry☘ 13:02, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And I have to reiterate that I'm currently working on the reception section. My plan was not to complete ignore Toronto Star. I would be more than happy to include it too. I apologise if it looked like I "removed" it. I meant to readd it later in the prose. I am an editor who cares very much about worldview and my worldview doesn't stop with Anglosphere but aims to include Asian and Latin American publications too if possible. I'm on your side. Just making that clear here. Have a nice day. ℛonherry☘ 13:07, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2024[edit]

Please add the Toronto Star review of this album: https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/music/taylor-swift-drops-surprise-double-album-with-the-tortured-poets-department-a-31-track-odyssey/article_2912d06c-fe34-11ee-b922-df359d747dd3.html?utm_medium=SocialMedia&utm_source=Twitter Aislingmurphy64 (talk) 01:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. --Ferien (talk) 20:26, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Music Genre for The Tortured Poets Department[edit]

The Music Genre for The Tortured Poets Department Alternative, folk pop, indie rock, soft rock, synth pop. It needs to be expanded in the Genre description. SectorKWiki19 (talk) 07:51, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done, no sources provided >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 12:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2024 (2)[edit]

Could you link the page for Clara Bow (song into the article (especially in the tracklist section)? 63.65.131.178 (talk) 16:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clara Bow 63.65.131.178 (talk) 16:04, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Already done Irltoad (talk) 23:42, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Song articles[edit]

Do any of these songs actually have individual notability at this point? Why so many?128.151.71.8 (talk) 12:04, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anthology[edit]

TTPD: The Anthology refers to the whole 31 tracks as a whole and not only the last 15 tracks that were released two hours after the first 16. You can see from Swift herself and some articles discussing the album:

  • Swift's own Instagram: "here's the second installment of TTPD: The Anthology. 15 extra songs."
  • Pitchfork: "the complete 31-song set, subtitled The Anthology"
  • Rolling Stone: "...the second half of Tortured Poets: The Anthology is more acoustic..." when referring to the last 15 tracks. They even say "Taylor hasn't given Part Two its own individual title — yet." There is no name for the last 15 tracks by themselves and they were only released as part of the anthology.

Please fix this in the article. The lead says "It is a double album, with the second part, subtitled The Anthology" but it is not the second part that is subtitled this but both parts together. Thanks. 2A02:AA1:1046:FE40:5731:816A:E331:92F5 (talk) 20:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Editions[edit]

The standard edition is 16 tracks and was only released for digital download and streaming. Can you please fix this in the release history section? There is no CD, LP, or cassette that has only 16 tracks; all of these contain one additional song for a total of 17 tracks, with four different versions (Albatross, Bolter, Manuscript, Black Dog). It is incorrect for the first row to say the standard edition was released on any physical medium. You can check the references yourself from the table or use this one from Billboard that discusses all the different editions if you are confused. Thanks! 2A02:AA1:1046:FE40:5731:816A:E331:92F5 (talk) 20:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Adding a table for track personnel?[edit]

The current listing of track personnel is difficult to parse because of the sheer size, and it's difficult to gauge which artists worked together on which songs. Specifically, members of the string ensemble on the latter half of the album are all listed separately, and their cohesion as a group isn't necessarily apparent. I feel that putting this entire list in a table would be helpful, but I'm not sure if there's precedent for that on Wikipedia or if it fits within style guidelines. I'm not suggesting that we remove the list, just add a table with the same information. I do admit that this table would have roughly 30 columns and 60 rows, so it might cause page navigation issues. I was thinking of doing this myself, but I don't want to do all of that work just to have it removed. Would love some feedback on this idea! SidekickDART (talk) 04:12, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While not great, it does seem that this method is standard across wikipedia (1989 (Taylor's Version)#Personnel, Circus (Britney Spears album)#Personnel). If you have a better idea, I'd recommend testing it in your UserSpace and posting about it in Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab) for feedback. Tantomile (talk) 06:21, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Bridgewater’s “Line of Best Fit” review (typo).[edit]

The review was paraphrased as such: “The Line of Best Fit's writer Paul Bridgewater, who dubbed it Swift's most cohesive body of work to-date, found the music sophisticated and the lyricism symbolic.” The word “lyricism” is wrong here; the correct word is simply “lyrics.” Lyricism means “an artist's expression of emotion in an imaginative and beautiful way” and never means “lyrics,” as it is intended to in this sentence. 96.18.95.203 (talk) 14:50, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 24 April 2024[edit]

1. Add "(stylized in all caps)" between "The Tortured Poets Department" and note [a]. 2. Under Track listing, Make the "L" on track 12 "Loml" into a lowercase letter. 3. Make the "w" on track 14 "I Can Do It with a Broken Heart" into an uppercase letter. 4. Change the case style on track 24 from "Thank You Aimee" to "thanK you aIMee" Betterlovejohnny (talk) 14:54, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done 1. Stylized in all caps is present. 2. "loml" and "Thank You Aimee" stylizations are noted (scroll down a little bit). 3. No source provided as for why to make the w capitalized. Note: the page (I Can Do It with a Broken Heart) uses a lowercase w as well, so why change it here? The Sharpest Lives 16:46, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do we add "stylized in all caps" to lead section[edit]

I propose that we add "(stylized in all caps)" immediately after the first mention of the title in the lead section, as is standard, and has been standard, for us to do with albums which have titles stylized in all caps and all lowercase. Despite repeated citations of MOS:MUSICCAPS, this is never mentioned once as being against policy, implicitly or explicitly. aaronneallucas (talk) 04:33, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actually MOS:ALLCAPS is a different guideline all together and says Avoid writing with all caps (all capital letters), including small caps (all caps at a reduced size), when they have only a stylistic function. So unless its an abbreviation, capitalising the title is purely stylistic and therefore against the manual of style. It is explicitly against policy/guidance. WP:OTHERSTUFF is never a good argument. If everyone else ran off a cliff edge, it doesn't mean its correct for you to do the same. Additionally MOS:MUSICCAPS does say Exceptions are not made to mimic logo/cover stylization, even if such mimicry is common in the music press., in reference to capitalising all words except propositions. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 13:08, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
The proposal in not to write in all caps. Again, as I said, it is to note the stylization in the lead section, not actually apply the stylization the wording itself. Once again, there is NOTHING anyone has cited which states, implicitly or otherwise, that you cannot notate the stylization. Nothing which you have cited says that either. aaronneallucas (talk) 16:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
adding (all caps) is considered trivic and violates MOS:MUSICCAPS. Faerize (talk) 00:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Faerize and Lil-unique1. It's trivial and adds little value. Ss112 18:05, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Aplucas0703 No. It is trivial, disrupts the sentence, and also violates MOS:TMSTYLE and MOS:MUSICCAPS. MOS:TM is specifically directed at this also. (Special:Permalink/1088443179#MOS:TMSTYLE) 𝘮𝘪𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘦𝘭'𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘮𝘦𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘺, 03:24, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@AskeeaeWiki From the policy you cite: "In the article about a trademark, give the version that follows the usual rules of spelling and punctuation, boldfaced in the lead sentence. Follow this with a note, such as "(stylized as ...)" ... with the stylization if one exists and is significantly different ... and may include simple styling, like capitalization changes...". Am I missing something as to why this goes against my suggestion? It is literally exactly what I am suggesting we do? I am very confused. aaronneallucas (talk) 03:41, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Aplucas0703 It allows for stylization in the context of a trademark. Is The Tortured Poets Department, an album, trademarked? Also, read the conversation I linked. 𝘮𝘪𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘦𝘭'𝘴 𝘥𝘦𝘢𝘳 𝘮𝘦𝘭𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘩𝘰𝘭𝘺, 03:46, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
All capitals has "stylistic function". Its a hard no @Aplucas0703, noting it is the same as writing it in all capitals. What's the purpose of notation? What value or meaning does it have? >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 12:22, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
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