Talk:Vladimir Lenin monument, Kyiv

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Different title[edit]

What would you guys say if we moved it to a different more encyclopedic title, something along the lines of Vladimir Lenin monument, Kiev or even Monuments to Vladimir Lenin in Kiev. It would be a much broader article, with lists, photos and many notable examples (see Teatralna (Kiev Metro). Right now, this article is too narrow, and just represents a fraction of what those articles might contain. DDima 05:50, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

agree, article on the monument makes more sense than just the act of toppling it. HOWEVER, Firdos Square statue destruction may act as a style guide and precedent for an article like this one.--Львівське (говорити) 06:05, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, they might resurrect the statue... I have a gut feeling that will happen...... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 18:10, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I understand letting the CP fix damages, but make and place a new one? That may lose them swing voters and the PR can only be negative...but then again, it wouldn't shock me.--Львівське (говорити) 19:15, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why "last"? There are still several Lenin statues in Kiev. So, edit the title, please — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.244.129.168 (talk) 20:01, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was always lead to believe the now toppled one was the last one... and it was only alowed to stay since it was seen as a souvenir... This info can also be found in books.... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 00:52, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, title and leading paragraph is confusing. What is the purpose of the title was never disclosed, so it needs to be changed. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:56, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, considering certain comments on the talk page y users with Cyrillic-written names, it seems that the purpose of the article is to turn it into something that would somehow negatively reflect the Kiev events of the 2013-2014 winter. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 01:00, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

DDima, Lvivske and Yulia Romero, I moved the page per the discussion. It has been out for over a year and never closed. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 01:04, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fine by me, in its current form the article name makes sence (it used to be about its destruction only). Thanks for expanding the article Aleksandr. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 22:02, 5 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

sources[edit]

dont have time right now but yuschenko's party issued a statement on it here --Львівське (говорити) 20:48, 9 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Monument seems to be completely destroyed...[edit]

According to WP:OR sources of mine people have chopped of pieces of the monument (my source has some at his home...). My source assumed the monument by now must be so completely restored that if they want to resurrect this monument they have to make a new one since my source assumed that the 1946 version of the monument is beyond repair... — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 23:06, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Fall of the monument to Lenin in Kiev[edit]

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Fall of the monument to Lenin in Kiev's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ReferenceA":

From Domestic responses to the Euromaidan: http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/euromaidan-rallies-in-ukraine-live-updates-332341.html
From Ukrainians: "Ukrainians". Encyclopediaofukraine.com. 1990-07-16. Retrieved 2012-10-30.
From Chernobyl disaster: National Geographic, VOL. 171, NO. 5, May 1987 (article "Chernobyl – One Year After")

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 23:17, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed; It should have been ref #1; but this source does not mention Ruslana. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 23:57, 23 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism[edit]

Category Vandalism must be restored. :

1. The destruction of the statue was not sanctioned by the city of Kiev.

2 . Responsibility for organizing the destruction of all the leaders refused Evromaydan .

3. 70 percent of the residents of Kiev condemned this action and recognized it vandalism.

4 . Citizens of Ukraine now collect money to rebuild the destroyed monument.

5. The destruction of the statue, which is a work of art, with a sledgehammer also has preendentov in modern European history and is an act of vandalism.

Based on the foregoing , I Vandalism category that come back . Остроголовый (talk) 08:41, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. (But) I am confused by your argument #2... Did you mean to say "the opposition had not planned or ordered the destruction and thus takes no responsibility"?

It would be nice if you can bring to the table a reference/news source for who these "Citizens of Ukraine now collect money to rebuild the destroyed monument" are they the Communist party of Ukraine? As I wrote earlier on this page; I would be not suprised to see the monument resurrected. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 17:04, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing as the busted nose was funded by the Communist Party, "citizens of Ukraine" (implying non-partisan) is a bit misleading. Saying that the destruction has "no precedent in European history" is also a bit of a stretch, were no communist statues destroyed in Soviet satellites? How about the Berlin Wall? The best parrallel I could find was the destruction of the Stalin Monument (Budapest) --Львівське (говорити) 17:34, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the source of collecting money for a statue of Lenin. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5][6][7][8] Остроголовый (talk) 18:56, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

December 2013 events were the destruction of the statue of Lenin, not dismantling. Yushchenko's decree did not provide for the barbaric destruction of works of art. That is why today in Ukraine are safely monuments to Soviet soldiers and monuments leaders of the Soviet state. The main thing is that most of the residents of these cities stand for the preservation of these monuments. Yushchenko has long been the way is not the President of Ukraine.Остроголовый (talk) 21:25, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In a revolution or civil unrest or even war, things brake. The Firdos Square statue destruction is also not listed under the category vandalism, or any of the other statues that fell because the system was broke or was overthrown. Gryffindor (talk) 07:54, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Остроголовый, Yushchenko's decree did not provide for the barbaric destruction, but there is a timelimit on any decree and reason why such decree was adopted. What happened in Kiev is the result of ignoring it. Ukraine will be cleansed off Communist idols and statues of the Russian government officials who have nothing to do with Ukraine. Stolypin fell, so did Lenin. Aleksandr Grigoryev (talk) 00:53, 1 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I agree, let in this version of the article will be a statement that the destruction of monuments and works of art is not vandalism. This is very similar to the activities of the Islamic state. I am satisfied that the article in Russian is called vandalism. Good luck!Остроголовый (talk) 09:13, 4 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's no more vandalism than the removal of statues of Hitler in Germany in 1945. Except, Lenin caused more deaths than Hitler. Even counting just Ukrainians during a single event, the Holodomor has about as many victims as the Holocaust. I can't see how a civilised person could blame Ukrainians for wanting to get rid of communist imagery. KiloByte (talk) 14:35, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Lenin died a decade before the kulaks burned the crops causing the famine. While communist imagery is destroyed and the Communist party is banned, neo-nazis march freely in Ukraine. Yeah, civilised people. emijrp (talk) 16:00, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]