Talk:Walter Donaldson (snooker player)

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Featured articleWalter Donaldson (snooker player) is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Did You Know Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 9, 2021Good article nomineeListed
August 4, 2021Peer reviewReviewed
March 2, 2022Featured article candidatePromoted
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on May 16, 2021.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Walter Donaldson, a two-time World Snooker Champion, converted his snooker room into a cowshed and used the slate from his billiard table for paving?
Current status: Featured article

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Performance table legend[edit]

Needs to explain the "=" or people are apt to think it's a typo.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ<  09:48, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Place of birth and name[edit]

Was Donaldson born in Coatbridge or in Edinburgh?

Some sources say Edinburgh[1][2]

..others say Coatbridge[3][4][5]
..and at least one says "Born in Edinburgh and came to Coatbridge at the age of 5"[6]

Is there a secondary source for his full name being Walter Weir Wilson Donaldson?

Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:48, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Balance of the evidence seems to me to point to "Born in Edinburgh and came to Coatbridge at the age of 5" is accurate, so I've included that. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:45, 5 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "1907 Births in the District of Saint Giles in the City of Edinburgh". Statutory Birth Record 685/040185. ScotlandsPeople. Archived from the original on 21 November 2008. Retrieved 13 February 2015.
  2. ^ Dundee Evening Telegraph - Saturday 25 October 1947, page 8
  3. ^ "Billiards", Coatbridge Leader - Saturday 05 February 1949
  4. ^ Williams, Luke; Gadsby, Paul (2005). Masters of the Baize. Edinburgh: Mainstream. ISBN 1840188723.
  5. ^ Morrison, Ian (1986). The Hamlyn Encyclopedia of Snooker. Twickenham: Hamlyn Publishing Group. ISBN 0600501922.
  6. ^ "Warned against billiards career", Coatbridge Express - Wednesday 29 October 1947

Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Valereee (talk) 18:18, 10 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

(
)
  • ... that Walter Donaldson, a two-time World Snooker Champion, converted his snooker room into a cowshed and used the slate from his billiard table for paving? Source: Daily Herald
    • ALT1:... that ...? Source: "You are strongly encouraged to quote the source text supporting each hook" (and [link] the source, or cite it briefly without using citation templates)

5x expanded by BennyOnTheLoose (talk). Self-nominated at 22:47, 1 May 2021 (UTC).[reply]

  • checkY Article is long enough (14440 characters), has been 5x expanded according to DYKcheck tool, nominated in time (expansion started 29 April, nominated 1 May), and article is within policy. AGF on all the offline and BNA paywalled sources
  • checkY Hook is short enough, interesting, in the article, and well cited
  • checkY QPQ done
  • Overall, this nomination passes, congratulations. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:42, 6 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Statements taken out of the article[edit]

Whilst editing the article, I've taken out the following content which I didn't find appropriate citations for. If others have more success in verifying these then they can be restored to the article.

  • He was the first Scottish-born player to make a mark in the world of snooker.
  • He was regarded as a great grafter, who never gave up when he appeared to be in a hopeless situation.
  • His name could be found on series of snooker cues on sale until the late sixties
  • He was featured in the Joe Davis book Advanced Snooker.
  • He won the Scottish Professional Championship against various challengers, pre and post World War II - (I only found results for billiards, none for snooker other than general statements like "he was the Scottish champion)

Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 14:43, 5 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the Scottish Snooker championship, Donaldson told an interviewer in 1939 that "I have issued a challenge through the newspapers but no one has come forward, so I claim to be Scottish snooker champion as well."[1] BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:28, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Walter Donaldson (snooker player)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 17:40, 5 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Comments

  • "finals from 1947 to 1954" since you're linking individual years to world championships, which I find a shade Easter eggy, why not link 1954?
  • "the British Junior English Billiards Championship (Under-16 section)," in 1922?
  • "during World War II, Donaldson" no need to link the war here.
  • "he lost to Davis. " in which round?
  • Quarter finals, but as it was the first match for both of them in that year's championship I've gone for "his first match". BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:27, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "from World Championship competition" vs "the world snooker championship in " capitalisation strategy?
  • Hopefully now consistently capitalised except the mention of "real world championship" - should that be capitalised too? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:27, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • side is linked but probably better to link it to side spin.
  • Shouldn't "News of the World Snooker Tournament" be "News of the World Snooker Tournament"? Same for the Daily Mail tournament.
  • "Crescent, Edinburgh on" comma after Edin.
  • "one-foot-high" convert to cm for metric readers.
  • All scorelines should use an en-dash.
  • He was called up and immediately made a sergeant?
  • I don't know. The Hull Daily Mail says he "served in the Western Desert as a sergeant." The Billiard Player has "He soldiered as a Royal Signals sergeant attached to the Fourth Indian Division. His travel log covered Nova Scotia, North Africa from Cairo to Tunis, Greece and Italy." Masters of the Baize says "Donaldson served as a Royal Signals sergeant with the Fourth Indian Division of the Eighth Army." No other ranks for Donaldson are mentioned in these sources. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:21, 9 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "including a 21–10 win over" repetitive, I'd go for victory here.
  • "the final.[19][15] Following" cite order.
  • "but as the billiard table being" overlinked.
  • "then unexpectedly eliminated" why unexpected, according to whom?
  • Williams and Gadsby call it "a major shock" but I removed "unexpectedly" anyway. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:53, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • " sixteen frames at" seems like a funny time to introduce the concept of "frames" when you've given frame scorelines several times before this.
  • "In Fred Davis' book Talking Snooker, first published in 1979, he..." maybe "In his book ...., Fred Davis..." to avoid the rapid repeat of FD.
  • "title, in 1950" you relinked 1947 after the lead, why not this one?
  • "Two defeats by Joe Davis.." bring Donaldson into this sentence, new para etc.
  • "Fred Davis, who wrote..." this sentence doesn't parse properly for me.
  • "the handicapped" what does this mean in this context?
  • "four frame lead" four-frame.
  • s's v s', be consistent.
  • Our article calls BACC with an ampersand, ie. BA&CC.
  • "After retiring from snooker, he converted" perhaps replace this first "snooker" with "the sport".
  • " 1973.[72][23][73]" order.
  • "He was considered one .." I'm not sure this is a "retirement" subject?
  • I've added "and legacy" to the heading but let me know if you have a better idea. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:53, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association's" link again.
  • Ref col in tables should be unsortable (add class=unsortable to the col definition).
  • Not sure of the utility of the No. column. We normally express multiple wins in the same tournament as (X) where X is the number of the win, in the Win/Lose col.
  • I've removed this as these are not long tables, but let me know if something needs adding back. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:57, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Score col sorts three different ways for me.
  • There are over 200 results for "Scottish professional billiards championship" in the British Newspaper archive, so I've redlinked it after adding "Billiards". I couldn't track down anything about Donaldson winning the Scottish professional snooker championship, other than non-specific references to him being the Scottish champion. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 22:57, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • ISBNs should be consistently formatted.
  • Did refs 37 and 38 really have identical headlines?
  • Yes, but I got the page numbers wrong, so I've amended that. (Four other papers in the British Newspaper Archive used the same headline at the time.) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 21:53, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Probably can add some kind of "people from Edinburgh" category.

That's all I can see on a quick pass, so it's on hold for the moment. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 12:17, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for the thorough and constructive review, The Rambling Man. Let me know what else needs to be done. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:21, 9 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing more for this process, the article easily surpasses the GA requirements, so I'm promoting, well done, a lovely article. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 08:09, 9 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "A typical Scottish invasion". The Billiard Player. Billiards Association and Control Council. November 1939. pp. 8–10.

Infobox[edit]

As there is no mention of ranking tournaments in the article, or link to them, I'd suggest it's better to omit "Non-ranking: 4" from the tournament wins section. Donaldson retired from snooker decades before the ranking system. The total of 4 also omits his billiards titles. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 10:54, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Agree 100%. Utterly meaningless number. The reality if that it's only DF147 (now blocked) who's at all interested in this number. I'm still of the view that we should remove this parameter for all players until such time as we have a sensible definition of what a non-ranking win is. Nigej (talk) 16:42, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm ok with "non-ranking" victories for modern events which are on the WST calendar but carry no ranking points. Thing is, that's very much a 80s and onwards phenomenon. Prior to that, all events were non-ranking, so it's difficult to get a number when you have the same deal between winning the Masters and winning Ted's over 65 black ball shootout. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:26, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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