Talk:Washington University Bears

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Requested move 11 August 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 (talk) 14:34, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]


– To standardize like other college sports pages the Current Washington Bears page is about a notable (winning the 1943 WPBT,) but long since defunct professional team. I hope that any associated categories if this move is successful will be moved as well. UCO2009bluejay (talk) 01:53, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Hard to say if this is the right move or not. The team was regularly listed as Washington (MO), such as Miami (FL). Any other case I can think of (Miami (OH), Georgetown (KY)) it fits the pattern of "Washington Bears". However, Transylvania was "Kentucky University;" and one can see from the Washington University in St. Louis page they are fond of the U. Cake (talk) 03:45, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • CommentI understand the apprehension. I agree Miami Hurricanes and Miami Redhawks are obviously different because of the mascots as compared to Augustana Vikings football which could mean Augustana (SD) or Augustana (IL). The University of California Golden Bears is different than the California (PA) California Vulcans but they are listed as school mascot. If you look at this edit [1] it appears that university in the title is frowned upon with the exception of Boston College or Boston U. UCO2009bluejay (talk) 04:47, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Possible 2nd ProposalI am afraid I am venturing top far from standardization and into WP:OTHERSTUFF But, if you want to look at Indiana (PA) example where they use IUP Crimson Hawks rather than Indiana Crimson Hawks, Washington U also likes WUSL, which I would have no objection to the renaming being WUSL Bears, WUSL Bears football, etc. But if the community determines that quote Washington University is the best WP:COMMONNAME, I will gladly go along with it. As far as standings templates such as the MVC/Big 8 in the 1920s, or in team name schedule tables. I do believe Washington (MO) is by far the most appropriate use in that instance.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 04:47, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I am mostly ambivalent for the above mentioned reasons and so just thinking aloud, but notice "IUP" is in Crimson Hawks logo and "Washington U" is in the Bears logo. The problem seems to be CommonName is in tension with Consistency. Maybe I can find an account of a game or an old program to see how the team was referred to when it was still around. Vanderbilt is one of my research focuses, and they have a certain history of scheduling Washington for unknown reasons (e. g. see 1891 Vanderbilt Commodores football team) I do agree that in a schedule or rankings or any other list using just the university name "Washington (MO)" is the standard. Kentucky, like Boston, would get very confusing very fast if "university" was left out; and the article for Washington says that's why they use Washington U; though I am unaware of a nearby, other Washington. Cake (talk) 12:59, 11 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Given our usual Wikipedia college sports naming conventions, it is highly unusual that we would include the words "University" or "College" in the titles of college sports team articles. I don't want to say "never," but I cannot think of a single example off the top of my head. This is convenient, of course, because our college sports naming conventions invariably correspond to WP:COMMONNAME. That said, we should probably get some Division II and Division III small college expertise involved here, and ping some of our small college sports experts. @Jrcla2, Jweiss11, Paulmcdonald, and Rikster2: Where are you? Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:13, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Dirtlawyer1: Boston College and Boston University would be the obvious examples that I can think of, right off the top of my head. Is there any other "Washington Bears" or "Washington University" out there? Ejgreen77 (talk) 03:41, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ejgreen77, those are the two most obvious examples, aside from ones that have an acronym incorporating "University", like LSU, USC, SMU, TCU, and BYU. There are other examples in lower divisions like the Mississippi College Choctaws and the Louisiana College Wildcats. I think the existing name for the Washington University Bears is the most appropriate. The real question is here is whether the team is ever referred to simply as "Washington". The school, academically, is typically "WashU". Jweiss11 (talk) 04:15, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. This would be a one-off exception to the standard naming convention we usually use, but it is not unprecedented. Boston College, Boston University, Catholic University Cardinals (to disambiguate from the actual religious figurehead), to name just a few. The WashU sports teams aren't known as the Washington Bears, and their own self-abbreviated naming of "WashU" supports that. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:05, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Grrrrr... I just noticed this. I'm not against a move per se, but I don't believe that is it. We might want to consider "Washington-St. Louis Bears" much like the Texas-El Paso Miners... but that leaves room for confusion with "Washington" being the school, the city, or the state. Ugh. In lower divisions, we've moved Southwestern College Moundbuilders to Southwestern Moundbuilders seeking to remove "college/university" whenever possible. I have no quick answer.--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:48, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This is the problem that I was wondering about. WP:Commonname vs standardization vs proper abbreviation vs what the institution goes by. This is no AMCATS, but I understand how this isn't exactly clear cut.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 22:25, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In the instance of transparency I have looked up several sources, some don't support the move some are iffy and some do: The University of Chicago record book on page 13 has it listed as Washington-St. Louis [2], and Washington on page 31. Carnegie Mellon as Washington (MO) [3] The UAA lists them as Washington then Washington University in St. Louis and WashU.[4], and Washington (MO) here [5] and in the record books as Washington.[6]- NYU lists institution names regardless of who it is. D3 hoops lists it as Washington U.[7] Rochester here uses Washington in the title but university names in the article [8] but they do the same for Emory here[9].UCO2009bluejay (talk) 03:23, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Jrcla2. I've been thinking about this the past couple of days, and I think it really is a WP:COMMONNAME issue. They are referred to as either Washington University Bears or WashU Bears, not any other names. The NCAA refers the school as either "Washington-St. Louis" or "Washington (Mo.), ESPN refers to the school as "Washington (Mo.), and other media refer to it as Washington University Bears. Corkythehornetfan 03:27, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Most common name appears to be "Washington University Bears". Jweiss11 (talk) 04:25, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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