Talk:Yamatai

Reply to Bendono

Bendono, thanks for your comment on my Talk page about this edit. I'll answer here, if it's OK with you. I moved Miyake's linguistic note on pronunciation from the lead paragraph (where it seems too technical) to the "Pronunciation" section (where details of other OC and OP reconstructions are discussed). For the sake of consistency, I changed the "ref" tag format for a single "Notes" to the Harvard referencing format this article uses for all the other citations under "References". HTML complexities of these "ref" tags often cause problems such as "1. ^ Marc Hideo (2003:41)". I agree with you that the lead needs another sentence about Yamatai and Yamato. How about something like this? "The linguistically and historically controversial term Yamatai transcribes an early form of Old Japanese Yamato₂ corresponding to Modern Japanese Yamato (大和 "Japan")." Do you think some of the Yamato information and Wikilinks from the first paragraph in "History" should go into the lead? Thanks again. Keahapana 01:45, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. More than for phonological reasons, my intention with the reference was to merely say that Yamatai is (linguistically) nothing more than a old form of the word that eventually became Yamato. It goes without saying, though, that the concept of what makes up Yamato (ie, Japan) has changed a great deal as national centers and boarders changed and expanded. I would like to say something like this in the lead, but do not have a better resource. As you wrote, the linguistic details are more appropriate elsewhere, which I am satisfied with. Bendono (talk) 05:20, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Developements

Japanese news has been reporting on a newly discovered 3rd century ruin suggesting that it may be evidence for the location of Yamatai. A few examples:

• 卑弥呼の宮殿？奈良で３世紀の大型建物跡出土
• ３世紀前半、国内最大の建物跡　奈良・桜井市の纒向遺跡で発見
• ３世紀前半の大型建物跡、邪馬台国の中枢施設か　奈良

Perhaps some of this could be incorporated into the article. 115.128.19.224 (talk) 10:17, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

33 Wei-style Mirrors

I found some wrong notation on Yoshinogari. Five "Han-style" mirrors were actually found from Yoshinogari, but 33 "Wei-style" bronze mirrors were later found from Kurotsuka Kofu in Nara Prefecture.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%BB%92%E5%A1%9A%E5%8F%A4%E5%A2%B3

The so-called Wei-style bronze mirrors with prints of Wei calendars were found mainly from Nara Prefecture, but the problem is that no corresponding mirrors were ever found in China.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%89%E8%A7%92%E7%B8%81%E7%A5%9E%E7%8D%A3%E9%8F%A1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aurichalcum (talk • contribs) 12:18, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, forgot to sign.Aurichalcum (talk) 13:07, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Yamaikoku reference

Hi Jhmartian, and thanks for making your first Wikipedia contributions to this article. Please check your Talk page for some Welcome information to help you get started editing. I've changed the lead back to conform with WP:COMMONNAME conventions. Google finds 67,000 pages with Yamataikoku, 598 with Yamaichikoku, and 8 with Yamaikoku. I've also moved your Ideology information, which you may want to edit, down to the existing Pronunciations section. Could you provide the publication details for your Tōdō Akiyasu reference? Please let me know if I can help you. Keahapana (talk) 01:07, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 20:14, 27 December 2012 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

Yamataikoku → Yamatai – Requesting move over redirect. The name Yamatai is the clear commonname on google (167,000 hits). The current name simply means "Yamatai nation" or "Yamatai country" and is unnecessarily long. The most important reason for the proposed move is to aid reader understanding - to make the page name as comparable as possible to the related pages of Wa (Japan) and Yamato. Oncenawhile (talk) 07:52, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

• Support: reasoning checks out. Shrigley (talk) 04:17, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Chamberlain 1919"!?

Why does this article claim Kojiki: Record of Ancient Matters was published in 1919. I forget when the actual publication date was (I think the Tuttle reprint omitted it because the copyright had expired), but Lafcadio Hearn's (1850-1904) first essay on Japan says that he had already read it! 182.249.240.22 (talk) 14:40, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Transcription of "Yamatai" etc. in Modern Standard Chinese (Mandarin)

According to Wiktionary (entry here) the character "邪" can be read xié, xiá, yé, yú, or xú in Mandarin. None of these correspond to the first mention of Yamatai-koku (邪馬臺國) in which it is referred to as "Yamatai guo", which appears to be a mix of the Japanese and Mandarin pronunciations (without tones for the Mandarin). The last three syllables are clearly "mǎtáiguó", but does anyone know the correct reading of "邪" in this context? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vimitsu (talk • contribs) 02:25, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

The Chinese pronunciations would have been Middle Chinese. The inclusion of modern Mandarin Chinese is a mistake -- modern Mandarin is irrelevant to this discussion. ‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 07:13, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

"Evil Horse Kingdom" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Evil Horse Kingdom and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 January 25#Evil Horse Kingdom until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 22:16, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Inclusion modern Mandarin pinyin is a mistake

The article includes modern Mandarin Chinese pronunciations of the Chinese characters.

This is a mistake.

The relevant pronunciations are those for Middle Chinese, which are notably different from modern Mandarin. We can refer to the single-character entries at Wiktionary for details on the Middle Chinese phonetic reconstructions, such as at wikt:堆#Chinese.

I've cleared out the Mandarin up until the Yamatai#Japanese texts section. The rest of the article still needs cleaning up.

For that matter, the Yamatai#Japanese texts section is mistaken as well in content -- the earliest Japanese texts are written mostly in a variant of Classical Chinese (see also Kanbun), such as most of the Kojiki of 712 or the Nihon Shoki of 720. These contain a smattering of actual Japanese-language text using Chinese characters for their phonetic values, but the full-on practice of this kind of writing didn't blossom fully until the Man'yōshū of 759.

‑‑ Eiríkr Útlendi │^{Tala við mig} 07:42, 15 March 2022 (UTC)