User talk:Andrew Gray/Archives/47

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Clickety Clicks

It was nice to see one of my uploaded maps in the article but someone from Wikimedia noted that maps and diagrams should be png not jpg, so I've been converting them ad hoc. I'll have a go tomorrow.Keith-264 (talk) 23:59, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

PS I looked in Middlebrook The Kaiser's Battle and found quite a bit of anecdote from the 66th Division.Keith-264 (talk) 10:06, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks - I'll try and track that one down. Hart's 1918: a very British victory has a quote from someone in 2/6 Manchesters on the morning of 21 March (oddly, the division isn't in the index!), but not much else. Regarding maps, I tried mocking up a map of the Fifth Army area showing the positions each day, but it didn't seem to work out very well - thanks for the clearer PNG. Andrew Gray (talk) 14:47, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Moore, W. (1970). See How They Ran: The British Retreat of 1918 (Sphere 1975 ed.). London: Leo Cooper. ISBN 0-7221-6151-4.
  • Had a look in here but didn't see anything not already mentioned.
    • Middlebrook, M. (1978). The Kaiser's Battle: 21 March 1918: The First Day of the German Spring Offensive (Penguin 1983 ed.). London: Allen Lane. ISBN 0-14-005278-X.
  • Gough had received additional strength in February when three divisions—the 18th, 20th and 66th—came down from the Ypres front. p.114
  • On 16th March Malcolm summarily removed one of the Brigade commanders p. 129
  • On 20 March an artillery commander visited XIX Corps HQ and was told that the attack was expected on 21 March. On his return the officer called in at the 66th Division HQ "who pooh-poohed the idea". (Lieut L. Rushforth Ward 113th Heavy Battery)

After the battle in a report it was stated that the attack was expected against the 3rd Army and only the fringe would involve the 66th Division; next day the attack extended for 22 miles south of the 66th Division. The front line was held by three battalions in the Forward Zzone and six in the Battle Zone, with three of the BZ battalions at rest in the rear, leaving half of the BZ occupied by "caretaker parties"; Malcolm refused a request to send up the resting battalions on the evening of 20 March to forestall the German bombardment. pp 136-137

  • The 24th and 66th divisions had few redoubts and a narrow no man's land. The HQ of the 2/8th Lancashire Fusiliers near Malakoff Farm were surprised and captured before they knew that the German infantry attack had begun. p. 200
  • The 66th Division was one of five and a brigade to have retained the front of the B Zone or had contained the german attacks within the B Zone, the big defeat was further south. p 274
  • Br casualties 21 March Killed: 7,512, 3,057 3rd Army, 4,455 5th Army, 66th Division: 711 fatalities (2nd highest after the 59th Div with 807). p. 315
  • The derided 2nd line Territorials enhanced their reputation, the 61st and 66th held most of their B Zones against determined attack and had many killed, the men had stood and fought. p. 326
  • A Night Raid (2nd Lieut A A Lamb 2/7th Manchesters) pp 361-363
  • The Trench Mortar Officer Lieut A A Simpson 197th TM Battery. pp 369-372
  • Captured Pte W Greenhalgh 2/6th Manchesters. pp. 375-378
  • App 8 Senior Officer casualties 21 March

Lieut-Col A L Wrenfold 4th E Lancs wounded pow; Lieut-Col W A Baillie-Hamilton 2/7th Manchesters pow; Lieut-Col A E Stokes-Roberts 2/8th Lancs Fusiliers pow p. 403 Keith-264 (talk) 12:07, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Great, thanks - I've a copy of Middlebrook on order but will incorporate some of this now. I've also dug out a clean German situation map and uploaded it with the 66th Division positions highlighted - hopefully this helps make a bit more sense of the narrative. We still lose touch with their exact location about 29 March, but as the offensive stalls at this point it's less critical. Andrew Gray (talk) 12:55, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
I had a tinker with the German map and managed to upload it in a much less laborious way, OK?Keith-264 (talk) 13:59, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
For someone with no source earlier than 1920, I turn out to have quite a few lying unnoticed on the shelves. Keith-264 (talk) 14:26, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

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The article 66th Division (United Kingdom) you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:66th Division (United Kingdom) for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Peacemaker67 -- Peacemaker67 (talk) 00:41, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Well done that bloke ;O) Keith-264 (talk) 08:14, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

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