User talk:BeanieFan11/Global Sports Cleanup Contest format

Discussion on this contest[edit]

@Cbl62, Hey man im josh, Alvaldi, JTtheOG, StickeyWicket, KatoKungLee, Levivich, S Marshall, Thebiguglyalien, Yankees10, PCN02WPS, Muboshgu, and Gonzo fan2007: Pinging some editors on both sides of the notability spectrum who came to mind to see your thoughts on this contest - so, basically, this is an attempt at an alternative to mass draftification proposals such as WP:LUGSTUBS / WP:LUGSTUBS2, which (in my opinion) only result on the ultimate deletion of many notable articles for being poor quality. As you've probably seen, I don't like those proposals and believe trying to improve the articles is a much better option. This is why I thought of the "Global Sports Cleanup Contest" - this is planned as a two-month backlog drive (that could be repeated every few months) to improve stub articles and those currently failing WP:SPORTCRIT (including all articles, not limited to Lugnuts), as well as nominating for deletion articles which are non-notable. As an attempt to motivate users to join, I've set out a large system of awards that can be given out (and still have a few more in mind, this whole thing is still in the construction stages) - if this is widely advertised (maybe some of those bot talk page messages and watchlist notices), I expect it will get a large participation (had I not been involved, I would have certainly been interested by the large amount of shiny things - plus the Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Football biography cleanup page - which has no awards - has been successful) and will result in many more articles being improved / dealt with than the draftification proposals and in a less controversial and more enjoyable way. Thoughts on whether you'd join, how the page looks, any suggestions, etc.? BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:07, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I wrote my thoughts here, presumably while you were writing this. But to clarify, I think this is a good idea and I would participate. My position is that deletion or merging of a stub doesn't do real harm, but improvement of a stub does bring benefit. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 17:13, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Thebiguglyalien: Thanks, I just noticed your attempts to revive the stub improvement project - do you think this contest should take place under the project's auspices, as BilledMammal suggested? BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:50, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm open to WikiProject Stub improvement going in pretty much any direction right now. I just want to see some sort of momentum with it. At the minimum, it might be helpful to encourage participants of the contest to list items at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub improvement/Showcase. It would give that short-term "reward", and it would help establish de-stubbing as something that goes beyond events like this. Though with that said, I am wary of the project being dominated by one subject matter (such as sports). I'd also want to be sure that editors interested in other subject matters were getting involved with it at the same time separately from this contest. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:12, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

BeanieFan11, I have two questions about how this might play out. First, is there a plan for how the points are to be tracked? Because from what the coordinators at GA drives have said, even tracking one system of points is a huge pain. This event looks like it's going to have two dozen different types of points for different types of categories and sports that are then added together. Whose job will it be to check every single entry (of which there will hopefully be hundreds if not thousands) to see which sport(s) apply and whether it's BLP, referencing, stub expansion, and/or deletion nomination? I worry that this point system might be much more difficult to maintain than it looks. Second, a simpler question, is there a goal for when this will start (e.g. is November/December the plan)? I ask because if I'm doing anything with WP:WikiProject Stub sorting, I'd like to organize it around this so they're not happening at the same time. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 16:55, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Thebiguglyalien: You know, I'm starting to realize how unrealistic my initial idea for points tracking (everybody lists their submissions and two judges check everything) is becoming - I agree we'll need to figure something out for that. The best thing I can think of is maybe having User:LivingBot check everything (like is done for the WikiCup), add a running points total and list the entires on a page where the judges will approve or decline them - @BilledMammal: also might have some ideas; he seems good with tools relating to these things. Also, as for when it will run, my plan currently is for November/December, and then if it is successful we could re-run it in later months or do similar events in other topic-areas. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:25, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Sturmvogel 66 and Cwmhiraeth: (as WikiCup directors) as well as @Hey man im josh, DreamRimmer, and Illusion Flame: (as NPP backlog coordinators - which uses a similar bot) - do any of you have ideas for how either LivingBot or TolBot (or, any bot, actually) could help keep track of points here? Thanks. BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:33, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Great work once again. It definitely would not hurt, and I agree that it has the potential to attract a good number of participants. You can count me in, of course. Just one question: are the participants tasked with calculating the points or is there some automatic count of that? JTtheOG (talk) 17:40, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the Lugstub Barnstar would be great. JTtheOG (talk) 17:42, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@JTtheOG: The contest is still in the development stages, so I haven't set out how the points would be tracked yet - if a bot could do it automatically, like the WikiCup, that'd be nice, though I'm not sure it'd be able to do it - my initial idea was that users would list their submissions and the judges (probably me and maybe someone else willing to lead it) would assign the points - but everything's still under construction and not set in stone. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:50, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You need a laser focus on the biographies of living people.—S Marshall T/C 18:35, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @S Marshall: I've currently got in the bonus points section a 1.5x bonus for BLPs (4x if they were previously unsourced), do you think it should be higher, and if so, how much? BeanieFan11 (talk)
  - I think that in the first round, only BLPs should attract a reward.—S Marshall T/C 18:59, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    - At the moment, I haven't exactly planned rounds - its currently more of just a "highest score in this span wins"-type of contest (plus if we limit it to BLPs that might discourage some of the users who like focusing on historical articles) - though I did just think of an idea in that The BLP Barnstar could be one of the awards. BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:10, 30 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@BeanieFan11:. Thanks for the ping. It is something very similar to what I am doing with Hampshire cricketers, so far I've expanded 264 players – most of whom were stubs that would likely have been culled under the new guidelines. Though of course mine isn't a contest! A few years ago I created a contest page for the Cricket Project, but thus far there have been no takers :( I'd love for your proposal to get some legs and become a reality! StickyWicket aka AA (talk) 09:03, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would be more than happy to participate. I've already participated in the Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Football biography cleanup and couple of similar ones with NBA players which all have been beneficial for the project. Alvaldi (talk) 10:31, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@BilledMammal: Do you think you could work on some of the other lists for the non-Lugnuts categories soon? Thanks. BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:11, 9 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]