User talk:CBB Stats

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Hello, CBB Stats, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! CutOffTies (talk) 23:47, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Your edits to NCAA tournament articles

I'm curious, do you have a reasoning behind these edits? You are making updates to many pages with no consensus. What is wrong with the title Elite Eight? --CutOffTies (talk) 23:49, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

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I was attempting to change the unverifiable records to match the official NCAA records. The phrase Elite Eight was not given as the finish or the tournament round name in the references provided. It is not verifiable based on the given information. I am unsure how to correctly cite the page numbers of my source because the numbers reset at the beginning of each section/chapter.

The NCAA does not refer to the tournament rounds as Sweet Sixteen, Elite Eight, Final Four, and Championship. The official names are Regional Semifinals, Regional Finals, National Semifinals, and National Championship. NCAA records count teams playing in the Regional Semifinals as appearing in the Sweet Sixteen since 1975. NCAA records give the final four teams in the tournament a "Final Four appearance" from 1939 to the present. Nowhere in the official tournament record book does it state that teams playing in the Regional Finals are given an Elite Eight appearance. I believe many people assume otherwise because the rounds before and after the Regional Finals are given appearance records.

The phrase Elite Eight is trademarked by the NCAA. The NCAA typically does not use the phrase to describe the round with eight teams, or the finish of teams in that round for the Division I Men's Tournament. "Elite Eight" does not appear in the official NCAA Record Book or the Final Four Record Book. Instead the "Elite Eight" is promoted as a marketing term for the final eight teams (regional champions) of the D-II tournament who gather at one location for the national rounds of the tournament like the "Final Four" of the D-I tournament but with 8 teams.

The NCAA calls the round of eight of the D-I tournament the Regional Finals in the "All Time Tournament Brackets" chapter of 2011 Men's Final Four Record book and losing teams are listed as "Regional Runner-ups" on pages 38-97 of "The Tournament" chapter of the same book. The source of the phrase "Regional Runner-up" comes directly from NCAA records. The source of Elite Eight is unclear. The ESPN College Basketball Encyclopedia also calls the round with eight teams the "Regional Finals" during the Year in review section where they print the brackets for every tournament and on individual team pages where they list postseason results. These are the most credible sources I am aware of for information on the NCAA entire tournament. They are recently published from respected sources. Can you help me find equally verifiable resources that use the term Elite Eight and reference all tournament round of eight games? Individual sportswriters or individual schools may use the term, but this seems incorrect given the NCAA holds the trademark and can determine how the term is applied. Articles often only reference one game or the finish of one team in any given year so it would take dozens of citations for the entire tournament. When many professional sources collaborate such as the Final Four Record Book or the ESPN Encyclopedia to report the entire tournament history the consensus seems to be to not use Elite Eight. What is your opinion on this matter?

CBB Stats (talk) 08:42, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. A grizzly bear is referred to as Ursus arctos horribilis in science textbooks - should all uses of grizzly bear be changed? Yes, sportswriters, schools, fans, pretty much everyone uses the term elite eight so what is in some official record book that .1% percent of basketball fans/wikipedia readers are familiar with or care about is irrelevant.

Furthermore, you generally shouldn't be making mass changes like that where the content has been a certain way for years without some sort of consensus. I see you just joined the College Basketball Wikiproject - their talk page would be a good place to ask what they think. Perhaps you can ask there, and if consensus is elite eight, then you can revert all your updates. Thank you--CutOffTies (talk) 13:29, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

August 2011

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Before saving your changes to an article, please provide an edit summary for your edits. Doing so helps everyone understand the intention of your edit (and prevents legitimate edits from being mistaken for vandalism). It is also helpful to users reading the edit history of the page. Thank you. CutOffTies (talk) 13:31, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

Jbfwildcat

STOP EDITING THE KENTUCKY MEN'S BASKETBALL PAGE

You need to stop updating the Kentucky men's basketball page with agenda-driven, improper information. I warn you, I am watching this page and will revert every single improper edit. You know, it's funny, you only single out the UK basketball page, and you don't edit the basketball pages of other schools in the same manner, schools such as North Carolina or Kansas. In short, your edits are agenda-driven, and WRONG. You are not an expert on Kentucky Basketball. In closing, you don't know what you are talking about, nor do you know how to understand sources. Once again, I will revert every improper edit.