User talk:DEFCON5/Archives/2021/September

DEFCON5 you and Yappy2bhere work together as bullies

It is clear that you and Yappy2bhere work as bullies with underlying motives. Under the garb of wiki rules you harass and edit verified information per your convenience. You work with others as well. Will make request the admins to investigate the same. PMP1301 (talk) 05:58, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

MfD nomination of User:DEFCON5/sandbox/Maulana Azad Institute of Dental Science

User:DEFCON5/sandbox/Maulana Azad Institute of Dental Science, a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:DEFCON5/sandbox/Maulana Azad Institute of Dental Science and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:DEFCON5/sandbox/Maulana Azad Institute of Dental Science during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. MB 06:46, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

ISB Notable Alumni

Hi Defcon Regarding the notable alumni section at ISB . Do links to linkedin profiles suffice ? Or do they have to be links to wikipedia articles ?

The ISB Page

Hey,

Thank you for the updates/corrections on the Indian School of Business page. Specially, the most recent change of removing alumni who didn't have their own Wiki page. I wanted to check if I can add references of the alumni from news/coverage, instead of Wiki pages?

Please only add names that already have Wikipedia articles about them with a reliable source that mentions that the said individuals are alumni of the said institute. defcon5 (talk) 09:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Just curious about this. Can you please let me know why only individuals who have a Wikipedia article can be added in the alumni section? I thought under WP:GNG and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Schools/Article_advice#Alumni, a strong unbiased reference would be enough? Curious to hear your thoughts VP101 (talk) 17:35, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

@VP101: Thankyou for reaching out. Yes you are correct in saying that the selection criteria of lists is based on 2 factors. (a) person should pass WP:GNG and (b) reliable source to establish them as alumni. The easiest way of know of someone’s notability is if they already have article about them. That is why most editors use it as a thumb rule. Also see WP:LISTPEOPLEdefcon5 (talk) 04:54, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

@DEFCON5: Thank you for responding to my comment. I now understand why most moderators use existing pages as a means of verifying that the entities do pass WP:GNG. However, I have found some examples of pages pertaining to Universities or Educational Institutions where a strong reference seems to have sufficed. Some examples are:

Tokyo University of Science, IIM Ahmedabad, Kellogg School of Management, Delhi School of Social Work

Based on this, I would like to know if there is any specific rule that prohibits the addition of individuals under the alumni or faculty section if there isn’t a page about them. I am also cognizant of the fact that there is a lot of unethical editing going on and that any additions concerning alumni or faculty should be good faith edits with sources and citations as per the accepted standards on Wikipedia. Perhaps consider reviewing the additions after they are done? From what I know, there are many such individuals who are held by a school in high regard as alumni and who also have coverage across media that can be used as citations/references. Would love to hear more from you about this and thank you once again for this discussion. VP101 (talk) 10:58, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

@VP101: No I don’t think there is any specific rule currently that prohibits you to add it. But any editor can challenge it and notability will have to be established under WP:GNG. If you think that a person is notable enough to pass WP:GNG, it would be better to write a article on him/her yourself or request one at WP:REQUEST.defcon5 (talk) 11:52, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

@DEFCON5: Thanks for the response. What you said is exactly what I’m confused about, and I mean that in a very respectful way. WP:GNG does allow for additions that have strong citations without the need for there being a separate page of the entity mentioned. My concern is about the application of this. I absolutely understand and know that Wikipedia editors and moderators approach things in good faith and are concerned about the quality of content on the platform. However, I would like to specifically ask about two approaches that could help add alumni to any school's page while retaining the standards Wikipedia is known for as well as adhering to the rules that have been framed over time. I'd like your take on these. They are as follows:

• A note about this on the talk page clearly specifying the fact that a discussion on WP:GNG has been had and that all names to be mentioned need to be clearly cited using third-party established sources. In each case, WP:GNG needs to be adhered to. The following line in WP:GNG is what I feel could warrant this: If a topic does not meet these criteria but still has some verifiable facts, it might be useful to discuss it within another article.
• Or, a separate page under the title, “List of Indian School of Business Alumni.” Under what I read in Notability Stand-alone Lists, the following would perhaps pave the way for creating such a page -

Notability guidelines also apply to the creation of stand-alone lists and tables. Notability of lists (whether titled as "List of Xs" or "Xs") is based on the group. One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list. The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been. Because the group or set is notable, the individual items in the list do not need to be independently notable, although editors may, at their discretion, choose to limit large lists by only including entries for independently notable items or those with Wikipedia articles.

There is no present consensus for how to assess the notability of more complex and cross-categorization lists (such as "Lists of X of Y") or what other criteria may justify the notability of stand-alone lists, although non-encyclopedic cross-categorizations are touched upon in Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Lists that fulfill recognized informational, navigation, or development purposes often are kept regardless of any demonstrated notability. Editors are still urged to demonstrate list notability via the grouping itself before creating stand-alone lists..

I’m interested in knowing your thoughts on this. Thank you and I really appreciate the constructive comments with regards to this discussion. VP101 (talk) 18:30, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

@VP101: I am sorry but I am not able to comprehend your confusion. If you are asking if you can create an article like List of Indian School of Business Alumni; of course you can. You can model your article on “Featured articles” under WP:UNIGUIDE.defcon5 (talk) 19:22, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

@DEFCON5: My apologies, all I meant was that it's a bit confusing to see that notability without an article here wouldn't hold true under WP:GNG in the eyes of many editors. The two bullet points were a means of me looking at possible options in the future and your recommendation under what would be most suitable. Thank you for tip on WP:UNIGUIDE. I'll have a look at that. Appreciate all the help! Thanks! VP101 (talk) 19:27, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Manto Ke Afsanay (Stories of Manto) has been accepted

Manto Ke Afsanay (Stories of Manto), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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Thanks again, and happy editing!

Bkissin (talk) 18:51, 29 September 2021 (UTC)