User talk:Ebyabe/Archive 7

Archaeological Sites

I am impressed, although confused, by your extensive recategorization of archaeological sites by state. I applaud the addition of the state-level categories, but isn't it more productive to retain both categories instead of replacing the general US Archaeological sites with the state category? After all, archaeological sites don't stop being within the US just because they are in Florida. I've followed you about adding the US Sites category back in to many of the sites, although not all. Is there a reason to drop the US Category? If so, shouldn't the category just be deleted? TriNotch 08:05, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

It's pretty standard to only have the lowest level relevant category, to avoid category clutter. Look at Miami Circle. One of the categories it has is Miami, Florida. Which is in Miami-Dade County, in Florida, in the United States. But you don't see all those categories, b/c they're implied. There's actually folks that go around refining the categories like that; I was just getting a head start. Believe me, sooner or later someone else will remove the higher level U.S categories. Hope the info helps. :) --Ebyabe 12:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Ehh?

Check U.S. Post Office, its an obvious dab page, but has an uncat tag and the last edit summary was something like this isn't a dab page. Thusly, I am confused. IvoShandor 13:15, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I reverted, we shall see what happens. IvoShandor 13:17, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Seems stable. IvoShandor 10:32, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank goodness! I created that one a while ago. Changed from a redirect, actually. If there ever was a candidate for dab, that was it. We'll keep an eye on it, though, just in case. :)

Contributing property

What more is there to say about Contributing property, any ideas? I was thinking it might be a good short GA, I just did a major revision/copy edit/cleanup. What do you think? IvoShandor 10:32, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Assessment

Would you mind doing an assessment on Central Park West Historic District and its related properties that are linked on the list, some I started some I didn't but I will be working to clean them all up. Incidentally, as I improve this pretty cool, kinda interactive List of properties (Central Park West Historic District) I was thinking of eventually taking it to featured lists. IvoShandor 10:28, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I was getting the easy ones (stubs) out of the way first. I'll get to the others fairly soon-ish.

Oh, that is way cool! I didn't know you could do that. I'll have to examine the coding, 'cause I'm sure I'll borrow it for other stuff. :) --Ebyabe 12:34, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Borrow away, I borrowed it from List of Pennsylvania state parks, I stumbled across it in peer review. Ideally we could set up all our lists to be like that. IvoShandor 15:21, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I see you're online. Thanks for the assessment, I cleared out some of the backlog in the unassessed cat, hoping to entice you into it. I was thinking about the A-class criteria I did, check em they shorter, but I don't like it. Let's make it better than GA, I can revert to my old revision, the strict one, make it stricter. The idea being that a prereq for an A class review would be GA promotion, make it a step before FA, designed to weed out any problems that might come up at FAC, making the process smoother. Hmm? What you think? Or do you today ;)? IvoShandor 13:21, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Huh, wha, think? :) Good, I'm not the only one who can assess articles. I did most of the rest. The list I'm not sure of, start or B. I want to just rate it as a list, 'cause I is lazy this morning.

Did you ever find anything, anywhere, about what A-class is supposed to be, generally? I can't remember. It'd be nice to base it of something pre-existing.

Back to sleep... ;) --Ebyabe 13:33, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't have links off hand, but I used the military history project's outline for the review page. I will keep looking. Hell, we can make our own rules, wes about to break 50 members soon. : ) IvoShandor 13:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Military history assessment department says:

Reserved for articles that have received A-Class status after review by the project. Such articles are expected to largely meet the featured article criteria, and must be comprehensive, accurate, well-sourced, and decently-written; however, they may require some further copyediting.

This is largely what I think we should be doing and what I think my criteria laid out before I revised them to make them shorter and less strict. We should fine tune them per our project's needs. Your input on what things are important for the Project criteria in the A class criteria is badly needed (i.e. infobox, information in article etc.) Perhaps you can explain your process for assessment, what is your idea of an A class NRHP article? IvoShandor 13:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd not really though about A-class articles, 'cause I've run across so few of them. I think there's a lot of confusion as to what they mean, since it looks like they're between GA and FA. Which you'd think would mean they go thru committee, but they don't.

Having it as an intermediary step between GA and FA sounds good. Criteria, though, ick. I know I have problems just figuring between stub/start/B. The down-and-dirty of how I usually assess is:

Stub - Only has a few sentences, few if any references, bare minimum of info about subject. Most of the articles I created for the Florida NRHP are stubs

Start - More info, more references, a useful picture. For me, an infobox isn't a big deciding factor. Maybe it should be, but it ain't. It's more about the text and refs to me.

B - More than a start. Could even be GA-worthy. There's so much latitude here. I've rated articles as B that look almost better than some FA's.

Article length is usually a major factor for me. There is a whole school of thought that short articles can go to B or GA, if they're about subjects where there's little documentation. Notable Ancient Greek people where few records have survived, for example.

Readability is a big factor. I do skim articles when I rate, I admit. Pretty tends to make me bump it up a notch. That is, article is sectioned, sentence length not too long. Kinda the basics. If things are clumped, or there's long run-on sentences, and my eyes glaze over trying to read it, I'll more likely rate lower.

So, the best articles should:

Have sections, with info arranged chronologically, with subsections as needed

Pictures (of the place, and people connected to it, any historical documents, etc.) - this is one of the harder parts, as we've discovered

References - quality ones, obviously, not blogs or "fansites", except as bonus features, sorta

Does that help? I feel like I'm kinda stating the obvious here, since you're, like, the article promotion expert, doncha know. Anyhoo, that's the story, mornin'-glory. :)

Later! -Ebyabe 14:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Update

Since you always seem interested, in the Register and such this is an update of where I am at in regards to it and the project as I haven't been active in that area lately. The reason being I am concentrating on bringing Rock Springs Massacre up to FA, its almost there and ready to be nominated soon. If you have time do take a look and let me know if you have any critical commentary to assist.

As for the project. You probably saw National Register of Historic Places got GA, it will need work to reach FA, after Rock Springs I plan to do that work. Historic district is still awaiting GA review. [{Contributing property]] is probably close to GA. That will cover our main articles, my two other big projects are Central Park West Historic District and its contributing members and Frank Lloyd Wright Historic District (still in user space). I have gathered a couple of NYC photographers to shoot buildings for CPW and there are several dozen photos available from HABS as well, which will be useful for Commons galleries. I will be shooting the Frank Lloyd Wright stuff myself. I just got a great new book which gives details about almost every building he ever designed, great source. IvoShandor 19:28, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I have been espying your efforts, and large amounts of (belated) congrats on getting the GA for NRHP. It's A-OK, 10-4! :)

I'm considering going down to Lakeland in the near future. What with the brush fires in the Okefenokee Swamp still not contained, taking pics of places to the south seems like a better idea. And Florida Southern College is in Lakeland, with all it's Frank Lloyd Wright designed buildings. Plus Lakeland has eight historic districts (incl. the College)! I may have to buy me another memory card.

I have been madly taking pictures of late. I went on photo-roadtrips every weekend in last month. B/c the weather every weekend has been gorgeous. If it keeps up, I may take a roadtrip break on Memorial Day weekend, since that's when folks will be out and about, and getting in my dang way when I'm trying to take shots. Also having to plan around the myriad of festivals this time of year. I've missed some spots b/c I couldn't park close enough, and there were hordes of people around anyway. I can get them later; I just need to do additional planning. A WikiPhotographer's work is never done.

Speaking of resources, I found a copy of the historical/archaelogical survey for Marion County (in which I reside). It's great, b/c ironically there's a few spots I've not been able to find, with only the NRHP's directions. The survey has maps of the original street names (a lot apparently were changed from named to numbered some years ago throughout the county) for some of the towns. So I can compare with current maps. Gee, I forgot how useful (and fun) libraries can be, what with the Internet. Anyhoo, keep up the good work, mon friar. Later! :) --Ebyabe 19:44, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I still love libraries. They make me go to book stores and drool. I wish I had been able to get out for photo taking road trips as much as you have of late. Once summer really kicks into gear I will be taking more. My book tells all about Lakeland College, if you stub 'em and shoot 'em, I'll write em. Are there similar sources to the Marion County survey for other areas in Florida, that sounds really great. Hopefully soon I will be shooting three Frank Lloyd Wright related historic districts and a bunch of round barns in Stephenson County not too horribly far from where I live. We shall see what the future brings. I figure if I get Rock Springs up to FA I will have a good idea how to approach the Register article after I go through the process for the massacreeee. Talk to yas soon, keep up the eyspying and photography. IvoShandor 19:51, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Jefferson County Courthouse

I have added a "{{prod}}" template to the article Jefferson County Courthouse, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Kathy A. 19:46, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Issue addressed, more commenting in a bit. :) --Ebyabe 19:54, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

OK, here's the 4-1-1. The page is part of the ongoing effort of WP:NRHP to clean up the loads of entries on the various state lists in need of disambiguation. Ideally, every entry on the National Register should have it's own article. However, with over 80,000 listings, with more added every week, this could take a while. So creating disambiguation pages can at least help (hopefully) in the interim. To see what I mean, check the subsection of the project we've set up in that regard. I realize now I should have put the NRHP info on the page, but that one was one of the first I did, b/c so many were under that name, and I just didn't think to add it. I'll check thru the others and add the NRHP info where apropos. Thanks for the heads-up, ma'am. -Ebyabe 20:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Some books

I just picked up the following:

• Heinz, Thomas A. The Vision of Frank Lloyd Wright, Chartwell Books, Inc., Edison, New Jersey: 2006, (ISBN 0785821457).
• McAlester, Virginia & Lee. A Field Guide to American Houses, Alfred A. Knopf, Inc, New York: 1984, (ISBN 0394739698).
• Wright, Frank Lloyd. Drawings and Plans of Frank Lloyd Wright: The Early Period (1893-1909) Dover Publications Inc. New York: 1983, (ISBN 0486244571)

I highly recommend all three. In addition, The Field Guide to American Houses has a more recent (1998) companion which I am simply pining for, A Field Guide to America's Historic Neighborhoods and Museum Houses (ISBN 9780679425694). Oh yes, it will be mine. I think I am funny, remember that? IvoShandor 14:46, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Interferencei.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Interferencei.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2007, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. (ESkog)^(Talk) 20:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't really care, one way or t'other. Whatever happens, happens. -Ebyabe 20:20, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Rock Springs

I am about ready to take this article to FAC pending copy editing, if you are any of your Floridian friends would assist I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks. IvoShandor 12:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

• Rock Springs Massacre that is. : ) Thanks. IvoShandor 12:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

The articles you mentioned

Hi. I don't know that it is the same person, but I agree that those articles have been spammed daily with unsourced, borderline irrelevant claims, resulting in multiple reversions. So I have semi-protected them both. Redux 03:45, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Birthdates and streaks

The situation of reverting the dates and streaks stuff, by User talk:Ron liebman and his IP address sockpuppets, is turning into a daily game, and it's getting annoying. Wahkeenah 16:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

There is a mildly amusing quality to the whole thing. Demented and sad, but social, even. Didn't change the streaks, though. Had to leave something for other folks to do. :)

I can't figure the Elizabeth Hasselback thing, though. She doesn't have a baseball connection, and the only sports connection she has is she's married to a football player. I just imagine Ronny scuttling like a hermit crab from terminal to terminal in the library, deluding himself into thinking that he'll somehow trick us into letting his changes stay. Must be a groovy place he lives in. *sigh* --Ebyabe 16:26, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

His other main interest on wikipedia, besides baseball, is The View. Hence his attempts to also modify Joy Behar's birthdate. Wahkeenah 16:30, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

That's right, I forgot. Does he change Rosie and Barbara's birthdays? No, just Elizabeth and Joy's. And oh, look, he's changed some more. And he's started ranting a bit. This is where it gets fun. If he'd only include references in the articles for his changes, instead of in the edit summaries. Sorry, there I go again, clouding the issue with facts...

Funny when he ranted at me as one of the evil admins persecuting him. Since I'm not even an admin, nor am I sure I ever want to be one, doncha know. ;) --Ebyabe 16:36, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

My favorite admin, who I think had blocked their IP addresses short term, appears to be on vacation, or he would have done it again by now. And you're right, the problem is that the guy refuses to provide specific citations, just vague generalities; nor any evidence that his sort-of-cited "facts" are any better than the established facts. That's why I now treat any of his entries as vandalism. Also, if he's watching The View on a regular basis, it suggests that he's unemployed, which probably contributes to his attitude. Wahkeenah 16:47, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I've been wondering about his free time, since I thought he was working on a book. Which at this rate might be finished before the end of the world. I got into this b/c I watch Wknight94's talk page, and saw this whole mess. And jumped in, b/c I'm obviously an OCD masochist. :)

I think he's let someone else use the computer, since the latest edit is one on someplace in India, in which I don't think he's ever shown interest. Now we just wait and see what new IP he uses. Oh, rapture un-ending! :) --Ebyabe 16:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm just wondering where Wknight94 has disappeared to. Hopefully just on vacation, and not overdosing on the joy of the Mets being atop the league so far. d:) Wahkeenah 17:14, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Several users seem to be involved in reverting this guy's stuff now. The missing piece here would be an admin to stifle this nonsense. Wahkeenah 18:27, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it's established that the guy is a vandal, so the 3-revert rule theoretically does not apply. I'm sure his many sockpuppets have already violated it. The scary part is that there really is a Ron Liebman in SABR, and at least some of the names he's invoked are also SABR members. I hope the editor is not an actual SABR member, as they don't need that kind in their ranks. Wahkeenah 21:02, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

If this doesn't stop, a note to SABR might be in order. Wahkeenah 21:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Crazy day

Man! That is crazy. What a mean person, vandalizing baseball articles and abusing you, they should be slapped, hard. Yeah, I dunno, maybe I will have to rethink that admin thing. ; ) IvoShandor 21:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

• You need to have both a sadistic and a masochistic streak to be a good admin. :) Wahkeenah 21:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Goodness, that's me in a nutshell. But I also have a healthy dose of common sense, so I know when to run away screaming in terror. Don't I??? :) I'm still reverting him, though I did report this new instance to ANI. They're taking a while to act, compared to the other instances reported. Probably 'cause they can't believe it either! :) --Ebyabe 21:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
    • The admin from the other day seems quiet today. Maybe he works for a living or something. I'm thinking that, at some point, a note to SABR might be appropriate, informing them that someone is disrupting wikipedia and using the names of some of their members. Wahkeenah 22:00, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
      • It'll probably come to that, since he seems more than willing to create sockpuppets like they're going out of style. *sigh* Funny thing is, I don't even like sports! *lol* --Ebyabe 22:02, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
        • On the specials for The Natural, George Will said something like, "Baseball isn't a sport, it's a habit." So, apparently, are wikipedia... and, for some, vandalism. >:( Wahkeenah 22:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
  • True, all too true. Well, at least another one's down. Wonder what he'll use next? Anonymous IP or sockpuppet? We should take bets. ;) --Ebyabe 22:22, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Constant switches across different IP addresses in the same subnet. My guess is he would like to get all of them blocked in order to make wikipedia look bad. I'm looking into how to let SABR know that someone is impersonating several of their members and disrupting wikipedia. Wahkeenah 01:19, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
      • I dunno if he's that coherent. Considering the edits he makes to Escitalopram, I'm thinking possible mental difficulties. Part of me wonders if he has some degree of Asperger's. But yeah, something needs doing, seriously. This has gone beyond crazy, especially considering the abuse he's doling out to all of us. I'm beginning to think the best thing might be report each account as he vandalizes, get it blocked, then revert the edits. Or get more of the articles protected, like Victor Pellot. Of course, he'll probably just expand his efforts. But if he pisses off enough folks, he'll get slapped down like he should. Anyway, I'm going to bed now. I'll worry about this tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow. ;) --Ebyabe 01:38, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
        • Kudos. It's hard to figure what's going on with these folks. I don't know if I would go so far as to label it as a particular neurosis. But the behavior pattern is rather similar to a situation we ran into a few months back on the subject of the alleged "hoax" surrounding Project Apollo. The guy was eventually blocked and has not come back. This one is more persistent. But what they have in common is a refusal to directly engage in discussion. That tells me they are playing a game of some kind, and there's no fixing it, because they will never cooperate. The only solution is blocking. I look at situations where I've gotten into heated discussions, and the difference is that I and most other sincere users want to talk about stuff. When they won't talk, it's clear their primary purpose is disruption, by whatever means they can latch onto. Wahkeenah 01:57, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

User:Ron liebman

First, you're driving me nuts with that "New Messages" banner on your page. I reckon that's the idea. :) OK, you're right, a little bit of good news, indeed. Now we'll see if he backs off or if he persists via IP addresses or whatever. I would just as soon not stir the pot with the SABR folks if I don't have to. But we'll see. The sad part is, some of his stat stuff that he was trying to add today could be legitimate. But as I said in the reverting edit summary, at this point we are forced to assume any edits of his are vandalism. :( Wahkeenah 23:01, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

• He came up with a couple of new ones today, and he started using a particular IP address the day it expired. However, he didn't seem to do very much today. Maybe he's finally getting tired of it. Wahkeenah 22:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Yeah, I noticed. I went out grocery shopping, and when I came back it was over. I did add the IP and sockpuppets to his ever-growing case, as well as the sockpuppet tags on the pages. Maybe he's finally realizing we're on to him. When he could convince himself that sockpuppets would somehow fool us, he went crazy. Now every time he tries something, we basically say, "We know it's you, Ron, don't think we don't." And since we're blocking more of his accounts, it's getting harder for him to get away with stuff. We can hope, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries something again tonight, though. We'll see. Y'all keep reverting, and I'll keep reporting, and we'll nail him, fer sure! :) --Ebyabe 22:56, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Now that the info is on that separate page, would it make sense to remove it from that one admin's page, so we're not updating in two different places? Wahkeenah 23:19, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Another point to ponder: In the writeup it says "so-called" historian, or whatever. There actually is a Ron Liebman who's an active member of SABR. I wonder if it's worth bringing that up? Or is that asking for trouble? Wahkeenah 23:21, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
        • That I don't know; you're the baseball expert. Compared to me, at least. On your previous comment, I was thinking similarly. Let's not duplicate efforts. Tracking and undoing Ronny's changes is enough work as it is, doncha know. :) --Ebyabe 23:25, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
          • I'll just mention that among his usernames are several that he has hijacked from the SABR member roles. That should be sufficiently vague. Wahkeenah 23:27, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
            • So it was written, so it was done. For now. Wahkeenah 00:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Awb and Australian categories

(1) Good to see my past sins have been cleaned up in a number of categories

(2) Lists as NA - is that a wikipedia wide rule/convention, or is it project dependant? I have been slowly (without awb as I am neither an admin or pc addict) tagging a large number of Australian project articles and have not been doing as such - would be interested what you might know on the subject SatuSuro 03:24, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm not an admin, and you needn't be a pc addict to use awb. But it helps. ;) The NA rating appears to be tied to the list rating for the WPAustralia template. I just rated them as class=list. I'm going thru various WikiProjects and assessing. List, Category, and Template are the easiest, obviously. And ratings can always be changed. So if someone thought a list deserved a "real" rating (like stub or start or something), that's easy enough to do. I highly recommend awb, though, it's a godsend for this sort of things. I'm still figuring out new ways to use it.

More later, I'm going to bed now. I'm not sure what time is in your neck of the woods, but here in Florida, it's nigh unto midnight, which is late enough for this Wikipedian to nod off. Cheers, mate! :) --Ebyabe 03:39, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Florida - the centre of the universe (wikipedian anyway) its about to be mid-day here in the golden west of oz - traylia

Pardon my bigotries - as a mac user I cannot acccess some winhell devices/processes SatuSuro 03:47, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Ironic, that I wind up so close to WikiCentral, as it were. I visit Tampa at least once a year, and plan to move down there some day. Not 'cause it's so close to the Hallowed Halls of Wikipedia. That's just a fringe benefit. :)

I didn't know awb didn't work on macs. That sucks. I've always kinda liked macs, just never got the chance to use them much. -Ebyabe 16:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

WP:CHINA ratings

Hey, I want to thank you for your recent help assessing China-related articles for WP:CHINA. However, I do have one request: could you rate the importance of the article at the same time that you rate the quality? Just use the "importance=" parameter. (see Template:WPCHINA for more info) That way, I don't have to go back and rate the importance of those articles. Thanks again for your help.--Danaman5 04:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

You're quite welcome. I'm sort of wildly careening around various Wikiprojects and assessing articles, as you can tell from the comment above. And if you (or anyone) disagrees with my ratings, change them, by all means. I'm not watching them or anything. I just figure it's better to rate them as something, instead of not having them rated at all.  :)

As to importance, I don't ever rate that. Even with topics I know something about, I don't rate the importance, as that's incredibly subjective. Judging the overall quality is hard enough, doncha know. When I started WP:NRHP, I deliberately didn't add an importance parameter to the ratings template, 'cause who's to say what's more important than something else. It also seemed like an invitation for argument. Maybe I'm overthinking this. That's a Wikipedian peril, ain't it? :) Anyway, I'm sorry I can't help on the importance, but I'll keep going on the quality/class assessing. Later! -Ebyabe 16:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)