User talk:John Carter/Archives/2013/April

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MfD nomination of Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion/Religious leaders work group

Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion/Religious leaders work group, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion/Religious leaders work group and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:WikiProject Religion/Religious leaders work group during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 12:23, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Ferenc Szaniszló

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Please comment on Talk:Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute

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Encyclopedia articles

Feel free to begin organizing it there. Admittedly I'm of the opinion wikipedia lacks real organization and everything is done rather haphazardly on here. We lack organized people like yourself I'm afraid. So much is missing and so much needs doing to existing articles on a staggering number of topics it is often difficult to know really what to edit. I do intend going back to stubbing though for the near future.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 12:37, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

John, Aymatth2 creates a lot of African articles which need tagging. Can you go through his articles sometime and tag them?♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 12:53, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Religion

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RFC at WikiProject Freemasonry

This is going out to all who are listed as active members of WikiProject:Freemasonry. We are attempting to determine the "consensus of the project" on an issue relating to categorization. Please see: WT:WikiProject Freemasonry#Dispute over instructions at Category:Freemasons and share your opinion. Thanks. Blueboar (talk) 12:23, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Mediate

As a participant in WikiProject Alternative Views I invite you to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sorcha Faal (2nd nomination)[1]. For an entity such as this who has gained global noterity to even be considered for deletion is beyond my understanding.Kmt885 (talk) 08:57, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:G5 (universities)

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Talk:Geography of Ivory Coast

I apologize for disturbing your break. I'm asking you for help since you appear to be the last sysop to have edited Talk: Geography of Ivory Coast.

The Peer Review template has a redlink to Wikipedia:Peer review/Geography of Ivory Coast/archive1. Can/should these redlinked comments be resolved or should the Peer Review template be deleted?

No rush. Thanks in advance. SBaker43 (talk) 08:29, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Simon Wiesenthal

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Retaining a Quality Editor

I left you a message here. Thanks. ```Buster Seven Talk 20:27, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

User:Petrarchan47 has returned to editing the BP article. The environment at the article may be different than before. Perhaps with more concerned editors around her she won't feel so isolated. The Rand R team was/is a good idea. Worth pursuing?? ```Buster Seven Talk 12:58, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

DRN organisers

Hello. I am just letting you know that I've made a proposal to create a rotating DRN organiser-style role that would help with the day-to-day running of DRN. As you are a listed volunteer at DRN, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this, and the other open proposals at DRN. You can read more about it here. Thanks! Steven Zhang Help resolve disputes! 00:20, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Catholicism

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Sudan

Remember Sudan used to have nothing but databases and the odd USAID type article? [[Check out the sourcing for Jonglei and Umm Ruwaba!!! Unfortunately World Gazeteer.com which was the most comprehensive population data site is closing down in July. I was thinking about putting up a proposal on wikidata to either take it over or to try to start building a world gazetteer on wikidata of population by country.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 20:17, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Akrafena

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Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Argentine History/Evidence

Just a note regarding your comment on the page above: I know the issues are confusing, complicated by not everyone involved having English as their first language. I won't lobby by restating or reframing the evidence already presented or trying to influence your position. I agree with your position that charges of bias against English-language scholarly sources is insupportable, but also noted that the complaint itself nowhere argues against using or reflecting scholarly publications in English. As Lecen has been citing English-language references almost entirely, I found the wording of your comment confusing. It might need a bit of clarification. On the other hand, I may be misreading your statement (just ignore me if so). • Astynax talk 22:50, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

What you wrote actually applies to the other party (Cambalachero and MarshalN20). I never said anything that you said I did. They did. In case you are opposing my point of view, you should rewrite your statement and say the opposite of what is written there. Also, statements in the evidence page should have evidences, not mere personal opinions. Lastly, my nickname is Lecen. --Lecen (talk) 23:13, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
Since you mentioned my name in your statement I felt compelled to make a few remarks about it:
  1. "...at no point did I see clear evidence that the term 'dictator' was used by sources other than Lynch in such a pronounced and obvious way that the word had to be used in the article." On my statement there are almost 40 books in English which have been published in the past 25 years that use the word "dictator" to describe Rosas. The word "terrorist" is often used to describe his regime. Since I'm talking about books published by Cambridge University Press, University of California Press, Stanford University Press and other similar publishers of highly well regarded universities I can only imagine that you did not research.
  2. "...in which Lecen clearly states 'every single book in English says that he was a brutal dictator,' although the few sources he produces do not themselves necessarily use those terms or clearly support that exact statement." I brought around 40 books as sources (published in the past 25 years). I could have brought even more if I had to. I can hardly believe that they can be described as "a few". And all of them are clear on how they label Rosas and his regime (see the link above for my statement).
  3. "...Yes, Lynch is just about the only source in English in recent years which extensively deals with Rosas as the major topic". You forgot to mention Leslie Bethell's Argentina since independence, University of Cambridge's The Cambridge History of Latin America (v.3) for Rosas himself; for his legacy, there is also David Rock's Authoritarian Argentina: The Nationalist Movement, Its History and Its Impact, Michael Goebel's Argentina's Partisan Past: Nationalism and the Politics of History and Lyman L. Johnson's Death, Dismemberment, And Memory: Body Politics In Latin America. Just to name a few. All of them call Rosas a dictator, and regard him a brutal one.
  4. "I raised several points... none of which were to my eyes particularly well responded to by Lecen or others." Because you ignored what I said. Oddly, you never bothered yourself to ask Cambalachero or MarshalN20 to provide a single source saying that Rosas was not a dictator, or that he governed over a democracy or anything similar. Don't bother yourself with that anymore, none of them ever did that. Not even during the present-ArbCom case. I use sources, they use their personal opinions. If they have the same value, then there is nothing else I can do.
  5. "Lynch is..., by default, the source most likely to be used by other English langauge works, whether he in fact is the best and most reliable or not". He is. See my statement. I also contacted the authors of the books mentioned above and asked for their opinions. All said that Lynch was the best available source. The Arbitrators have the copies of my e-mails.
  6. "It has been said that in recent years there is a 'revision' of Rojas. To my eyes, a more accurate term might be "reevaluation from the view of people sufficiently removed to perhaps be more neutral than the people of the time," because, honestly, that is more or less what historians are supposed to try to do." The Argentine Revisionism actually appeared in the 1920s and reached its peak in the 1930s. It was an authoritarian, anti-Semitic and racist political movement that wanted to establish a dictatorship in Argentina (it was the Argentine equivalent to Fascism). We are certainly not talking about "recent years" and even less "more neutral" scholarship. Again you didn't research the subject or read any of the discussions held.
  7. "This might well include coming to a conclusion that the contemporary sources who were under the heel of a dictator painted him as being, basically, excessively criticized as some form of Satan incarnate, which, honestly, is far from unusual when dealing with matters of history." I never mentioned any source that was contemporary to Rosas. All books I mentioned were published in the past 25 years and written by English-speaking authors. Wikipedia:Verifiability says "Because this is the English Wikipedia, English-language sources are preferred over non-English ones, assuming English sources of equal quality and relevance are available."
  8. "...I did and still do think that in this circumstance the apparent insistence of Lecen on the use of a clearly inflammatory term when the alternative of a clearer, more substantive option exists, struck me then and still strikes me as being possible evidence of POV" That's because I respect what every reliable historian said about this historical person. For you, it's wrong. For me, it's about respecting mainstream historiography.
  9. "Yes, I have revised this comment repeatedly." Indeed. And it reveals that you don't have a greater knowledge of what is being discussion. You placed words and claims on my mouth which I never said and showed that you never read anything I wrote so far (as can be seen above) nor did any real research. Do you want a fine example? The present ArbCom is not about Rosas, nor whether or not he was a dictator. It's about whether is acceptable or not that Cambalachero and MarshalN20 edit articles pushing the political view of fascist, anti-semitic and pro-dictatorship authors (Argentine Revisionists).
  10. "I received a clear indication that in fact one editor had not only not actually read what I had written..." I did read. And I can also say the same about you (that you didn't read what I wrote) regarding myself. The problem is that (as we saw in your repeated changes to your statement) what you say doesn't make much sense and that you didn't do any research. No wonder it's hard to understand what you're talking about.
  11. "...and unfortunately those comments did very definitely prejudice me regarding the rationality of the editor who made them." I feel the same about you. You are an administrator, not merely yet another contributor like many others around. You have heavier responsibilities over your shoulders. However, you come to an ArbCom case, accuse me of things I didn't say or do, stay on the side of two editors who are pushing the political view of Fascists and you don't even respect the word limit (500 words) nor the time limit to publish a statement (the limit was on 12 April, two days go—another example that shows that you don't bother reading and understanding what is going on before sharing your thoughts).
I write articles in here, John Carter. And they are regarded good ones because I stick faithfully to reliable sources. I'm right now trying to prevent two editors from ruining Wikipedia's reliability as an encyclopedia because they keep pushing the views of Fascist sources while you accuse me of stuff I didn't do. You have responsibilities. Don't forget that. --Lecen (talk) 06:43, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Your Arbitration evidence is too long

Hello, John Carter. Thank you for your recent submission of evidence for the Argentine History Arbitration case. As you may be aware, the Arbitration Committee asks that users submitting evidence in cases adhere to limits regarding the length of their submissions. These limits, currently at 1000 words and 100 diffs for parties and 500 words and 50 diffs for all others, are in place to ensure that the Arbitration Committee receives only the most important information relevant to the case, and is able to determine an appropriate course of action in a reasonable amount of time. The evidence you have submitted currently exceeds at least one of these limits, and is presently at 646 words and 1 diffs. Please try to reduce the length of your submission to fit within these limits; this guide may be able to provide some help in doing so. If the length of your evidence is not reduced soon, it may be refactored or removed by a human clerk within a few days. Thank you! If you have any questions or concerns regarding the case, please contact the drafting Arbitrator or case clerk (who are listed on the case pages); if you have any questions or concerns about this bot, please contact the operator. On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, HersfoldArbClerkBOT(talk) 02:03, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Indexes and lists

Hi. I see you were asking about indexes and outlines, and I might be able to help advise.

There are a few endeavours/projects, that overlap with each other, in complicated ways. They each have their own original-rationales/supporters/activity-levels/technical-problems/target-audiences (whether readers/writers/bots). Grokking it all is delicate. I will not attempt to summarize any of that now. I will here list some, but not all, of the relevant top-level-pages, and examples, for each type. Hundreds more can be assumed to exist. Other Disclaimers abound!

Opinions and thoughts:

I would very-tentatively suggest that the small/short article-space indexes, eg Index of biodiversity articles, should be converted into Outlines.

The large exhaustive indexes, eg Index of chess articles probably belong in project-space. (The math index was in article-space for manymany years, but was recently moved to projectspace. A bot updates it regularly.)

Then there's the split of blue-link-only lists, and red-link-only lists, and mixed-lists. (Yikes, political-echoes!)

As I wrote in a current (and interesting, and related) discussion on my talkpage, I suspect that Indexes exist primarily due to the shortcomings of our category system (e.g. It's a web not a tree so we can't just list everything in the subcats to capture a topic; e.g.2. We can only reasonably list a few hundred items per page; etc etc). People seek to read or create lists of varying scopes, to meet their particular needs.

That probably raises more questions than it answers. See that thread on my talkpage for some of them. Feel free to ask me (here or there) for followup details/input. HTH. –Quiddity (talk) 02:02, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Falkland Islands sovereignty dispute

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2nd Opinion, possible bad faith

Hello John, I very carefully added a section to a controversial article, that was well sourced and mostly quotes from academic articles. The section was promptly removed, with the explanation that I had somehow "mischaracterized" the sources. Please check it out, and let me know what you think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Environment_and_sexual_orientation&diff=550886077&oldid=550882549


Cheers Ragazz (talk) 23:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Hebron

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Notability of deaths and dead people who become notable after death

Hello! After seeing your comments on Talk:Chandra Levy#Requested move, I would like to let you know that there is a discussion going on at WP:VPP#Notability of deaths and dead people who become notable after death that I think you may be interested in if you get back from your wikibreak before it closes. Happy editing! Technical 13 (talk) 11:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Re: Regretting the timing of your retirement

Y'know, it really kinda sucks that you more or less retired right around the time I was going to ask for your help with a possible suggestion for how to improve the "index" articles.

I've never been particularly active on them, because, unfortunately, preferring some sort of "outline" format, I've never been entirely sure which articles belong in which outline section. I have in recent times been working on putting together lists of encyclopedic articles relating to specific topics, like Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Methodism work group/Encyclopedic articles and other pages in the Category:WikiProject lists of encyclopedic articles, based on existing reference works which relate specifically to the topics of the groups themselves. It has always been the case that there have been quite a few major articles in other reference sources which we don't have, which has made setting up any sort of outline more difficult. I was actually going to ask for your help in developing a few in your own particular areas of interest, or sources which are easily available to you, so that we would not only have an "outline" of the content we do have, but also a few good indicators of what content we don't yet have, and also what sources exist for a lot of the content we do have.

Anyway, sorry for having gotten to you a bit late. If you do decide to ever return to active editing, drop me a note and I might be able to offer a bit more help now, with a few crib sheets prepared, than I did earlier with your objectives, particularly the outline articles. John Carter (talk) 16:33, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Retired? Are you sure? How could you tell? When did it happen, exactly? I think I missed it! The Transhumanist 22:21, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Rujm el-Hiri

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Hi

Hi. If you have a moment, please cast an eye on Great Church, created it to fill a gap, but not very familiar with the subject. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:45, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Pending release of Notifications

Hey John Carter/Archives/2013 :). I'm dropping you a note because you have signed up for the Notifications, or Echo, newsletter.

If all goes according to plan, we should be launching Echo on en-wiki either tomorrow, or next Tuesday - I'll drop a followup tomorrow when we know what's happening. Should the launch succeed, we'll begin the process of triaging bugs and gathering feedback on what features work, what cause problems, and what we should do next; I hope you'll help us out on these fronts by leaving any comments you might have on the talkpage.

Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 22:02, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Wynnewood, Dallas

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Please comment on Talk:Taliban

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WikiProject Christianity Newsletter (May 2013)


ICHTHUS

May 2013

Membership report
The parent Christianity WikiProject currently has 363 active members. We would like to welcome our newest members, Pleonic, MJWilliams1998, Iloilo Wanderer, Jkadavoor, Sir Ian and McBenjamin. Thank you all for your interest in this effort. We would be able to achieve nothing here without the input of all of you. If any members, new or not, wish any assistance, they should feel free to leave a message at the Christianity noticeboard or with me or other individual editors to request it.


From the Editor

This month we hear the news that the Bible is to be made into a film after outstanding success of a biblical miniseries on the History Channel, and we have seen the release of Iraqi Pastor Ali Hamzah from his confinement in Iraq.

After last month's spotlight on the Jesus work group, the flagship article, Jesus, was nominated for Good Article status after much work from FutureTrillionaire and History2007, and provisionally passed by the reviewer, although they have requested a second opinion. Our many thanks for the hard work that has gone into restoring this article to a quality piece of work.

This month the second largest denomination of Christianity, the Eastern Orthodox Church, celebrates Easter and the death and resurrection of the Son of God Jesus Christ.

P.S. Please click here to add the new Christianity noticeboard to your watchlist to follow the latest discussions relevant to WikiProject Christianity and subprojects.

By Gilderien


Church of the month

Wells Cathedral was this month promoted to GA status. Rodw has appealed for any help project members can give to improve this article for a FA nomination.


Contest of the month
No particular contest this month. I am however getting rather close to getting together a more or less complete set of articles relating to different areas of Christianity which can be found in recent reference sources on the broad topic of Christianity, and about various subtopics, which I hope to have finished in the next few weeks. I wonder what the rest of you might think of, maybe, making the contests of future months be basically directed at filling in the gaps of our existing coverage of topics, like those topics given significant coverage in specialized reference works which we don't yet have content on, and giving the thanks, and rewards, whatever they might be, to those who create and develop such content. By John Carter


Featured content and GA report
Since the last report;

Featured report; Madonna in the Church, by Ceoil, Truthkeeper88, and Johnbod was promoted to Featured Article status. Crucifixion and Last Judgement was promoted to featured picture status, after nomination by Crisco 1492.

Wells Cathedral, by Rodw, Robert of Ghent, by User:Ealdgyth, Christianity in Medieval Scotland, by Sabrebd, and Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, also by Sabrebd were promoted to GA status.

Also these past months, the DYKs on the main page included Lectionary 311, by Leszek Jańczuk; Herr Christ, der einig Gotts Sohn, by Gerda Arendt; Whalsay Parish Church, by Ipigott, Rosiestep, Nvvchar, Dr. Blofeld; Interpretatio Christiana, by Altenmann; First Congregational Church, Salt Lake City, by Orlady; Church of King Charles the Martyr, Royal Tunbridge Wells, by The C of E; First Church in Albany (Reformed), by Daniel Case; Pope Anastasius II, by AbstractIllusions; Iglesia de Nuestra Señora de la Palma, by Dr. Blofeld, Ipigott, Rosiestep; Colan Church, by Rosiestep, Nvvchar, Ipigott; Notre Dame Cathedral, Papeete, Bloom6132, Church of St. Wenceslaus (New Prague, Minnesota), by Elkman; St. Joseph Catholic Church (San Antonio, Texas), by Gilliam; Doubting Thomas, by Johnbod; Robert of Ghent, by Ealdgyth; and Holy Trinity Church, Holdgate, by Peter I. Vardy. Our profoundest thanks and congratulations to all those involved!

Christian art

This depiction of the Crucifixion and Last Judgement was painted by Dutch artist Jan van Eyck and promoted to Featured Picture this month.

Spotlight

SPOTLIGHT

This month, we turn our attention to the Encyclopedic articles sub-group, which aims to provide "a collection point for lists of articles contained in other reference sources relating to Christianity, which could serve as a basis for developing our own content". Created by John Carter, it is primarily a list of links, red or otherwise, for subjects which have an article in the reference works listed therein. This serves as a very useful list if any project members are "stuck for what to do" and there remains lots of potential for articles developed from this list.

By Gilderien


Calendar
This coming month (end-April through end-May) includes Easter Sunday for the Eastern Orthodox Church. Other major feasts in the next month include those of Matthias the Apostle, The Venerable Bede, and Empress Helena.

Help requests
Please let us know if there are any particular areas, either individual articles or topics, which you believe would benefit from outside help from a variety of other editors. We will try to include such requests in future issues.

Ichthus is the newsletter of Christianity on Wikipedia • It is published by WikiProject Christianity
For submissions contact the Newsroom • To unsubscribe remove yourself from the list here
EdwardsBot (talk)17:13, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter (May 2013)

Hi, I thought I would drop you a note to say that I mentioned in this month's issue of Ichthus. If you wish to receive the full content in future, please drop me a note on my talk page.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 18:00, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

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