User talk:MB/Archive 16

Lakes

Hi MB. I am working on the correct Cone Lake article and I see that the Cones and Cone lake information is all mixed up in that article. I want to take it to DRV but my record there is abysmal. I think many folks will ivote angular for kicks. Do you think I should start an AfD? I did look at each of the references posted on the talk page of Cones and 9/10 were for Cone/Bass lake. The tenth was about a picnic near cones (maybe even a misprint). I could eliminate the incorrect information in the Cones article but there would not be much left. Or if you feel comfortable starting a DRV? Lightburst (talk) 22:39, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

@Lightburst I went through them all too and concluded the same. I'm not sure I follow you about eliminating incorrect info from Cones Lake. All those refs about Bass Lake on the Cones Lake TP aren't used in the article, and I thought what is in the Cones Lake article is correct - there is just not enough coverage to make the small private reservoir notable. But if you are sure there is anything in that article that is not really about that lake, you should remove it. I guess we could start another AFD since new info has come to light about the two lakes, but this was actually pointed out in the first AFD, so a DRV is probable more appropriate IMO. I was waiting for Fram to have more time since he started the first AFD. In the meantime, let's improve both articles (by deleting info and expanding, as appropriate). MB 23:04, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Makes sense. On the other side of an AfD..I see why people are frustrated with WP:REFBOMBing especially when the refs are not even about the subject. Other editors do not click beyond a few links if at all, and then they cosign the ivote. Lightburst (talk) 23:12, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I eliminated the erroneous in Cones Lake. We shall see if it starts friction. Thanks for the chat and the tag team. Lightburst (talk) 23:22, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Hey, it seems like it is taking forever the get the Bass Lake DYK up. zzzzz. Anyway I am curious to see how many views it may get, the hook is not incredibly hooky. But those flickr images are sensational. Thanks much for your help getting the information right! Lightburst (talk) 16:21, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

Hello MB. You reversed my information in the article Siling Lake (Tibet), where i put the altitude 4.530 m in the 'Infobox' section. The same "4.530 m" altitude is already written in the article in the 'Overview' section. I wonder how can '4.530 m' be correct in the 'Overview' section' but not in the 'Infobox' section? It is the same information, just other location in the article. Thank you. Zemljevidec (talk) 04:50, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

@Zemljevidec, I did not notice that it already was in the body of the article. I have restored it to the infobox. MB 04:59, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Wolfgang Hoffmann revert

The title of the booklet was copied EXACTLY as it appears on the Internet Archive; the italics are mine, but it is ALL CAPITAL LETTERS. Why change it? Thank you and All the Best!!! Shir-El too 20:09, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

@Shir-El too Because that is our style: MOS:ALLCAPS. See the first bullet there. MB 20:12, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Point taken. Thank you again! Cheers! Shir-El too 20:51, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Moving to draft

I expect you've seen the various threads on the VP. While I fully defend the use of the draft space, I now have conclusive proof that not only are reviewers not customising the 'Move to draft' default message, but some reviewers are not using the script and not leaving a message at all. Good faith creators are being left to discover for themselves that their articles have been moved and to find out why. This is just one example of why two-stage reviewing might be a good idea. Admittedly the WMF is at fault for not making it clear where to find the instructions for creating articles, but two wrongs don't make a right. Perhaps this will interest NL. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:34, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

@Kudpung, Yes, I have a lot on my watchlist and have seen all that discussion. I rarely customize the message myself. The default messages says the article needs more sources. Robert M. says sometimes the problem is needing to prove notability. Unicorn says adding sources is how you show notability - so the default message is fine. Robert M. says people just add more sources that don't prove notability. They are both right and this is all wikispeak that probably doesn't mean much to the type of editors whose articles are being drafted. A custom message takes time and is probably using a lot of the same jargon. I really don't think relying on the reviewer to craft a customized message is the right way to go. There doesn't seem to be anyone saying the articles don't have the appropriate tags - why do we need to repeat what needs to be done in a message? The default message could just say "Your article is not ready for mainspace. Read Help:NPR and then see the tags on top for what needs to be done.

Putting the Move to Draft functionality into Page Curation would be my #1 pick if we get the WMF support we are seeking. MB 14:32, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Mine too. I'll mail you the changes I would make to it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:00, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Demonym for Maui

Many info boxes list the demonym for a place, but when I tried to add the same statement equivalent to that found in the Honolulu article, it did not display the demonym and you reverted the change. Why can't a demonym go into the info box for Maui? UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 21:40, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

@UWashPrincipalCataloger, It did not display because there is no demonym parameter for {{infobox island}}. I reverted it to remove the unrecognized parameter which was listed in an error category. Infobox island has specific parameters for islands, like the length of coastline, archipelago, number of islands in the chain. Demonym is a parameter to {{infobox settlement}} which is used for villages, towns, cities, and the like, which doesn't have any of the parameters about islands, but has many others. If you want to request that demonym be added to {{infobox island}}, you could start a discussion at Template talk:Infobox islands and if others supported it, the parameter could be added to the template. MB 00:26, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) @MB and @UWashPrincipalCataloger, {{Infobox islands}} does have a |demonym= parameter:

• demonym = the name the people of the island are called that is based on location

– Archer1234 (talk) 01:45, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

@UWashPrincipalCataloger, I was mistaken. As @Archer1234 pointed out, the parameter is there, it is just called |demonym= instead of |population_demonym= as it is in {{infobox settlement}}. And I see that another editor has already updated Maui, so Mauian is now displayed as you intended. MB 02:27, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Oh that's great! Thanks for filling me in! UWashPrincipalCataloger (talk) 17:08, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Enquiry

Why have you changed my picture Mawbawinranaghat (talk) 04:12, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

@Mawbawinranaghat Because it was taken from a website and is therefore a copyright violation. It has been nominated for deletion at Commons. MB 04:14, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Okay Mawbawinranaghat (talk) 06:01, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Francoist Spain

Hi. I did not report you for edit warring on this article, because I thought it was more important to get the SPA editor under control, but you have definitely have been over the line with your reversions. Please note that there is an open discussion on the talk page on what the "government" field should say, and there is not consensus there at this time. Please contribute to the discussion and make what arguments you wish to make in favor of your preferred version, but do not continue to revert to your version. I'm going to blank the government field until a consensus determines what it should say. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:49, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

@Beyond My Ken, I know nothing about the content of this article or the subject. I am just trying to fix the errors:

Preview warning: Page using Template:Infobox country with unknown parameter "legislator1"

Preview warning: Page using Template:Infobox country with unknown parameter "legislator2"

Preview warning: Page using Template:Infobox country with unknown parameter "year_legislator2"

Preview warning: Page using Template:Infobox country with unknown parameter "year_legislator1"

Preview warning: Page using Template:Infobox country with unknown parameter "title_legislator"

I was reverting back to a stable version with no errors, not trying to change anything else. The version you just put back re-introduced these errors. MB 01:53, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

If there are errors in the infobox, please change them individually rather than reverting back to a previous version. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:55, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

I have deleted the errant parameters, so I think the problem you were working on is fixed. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Best, Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:00, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, you actually got there before me. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:02, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

@Beyond My Ken things got confusing when you made this edit - instead of just reverting the SPA, you made some changes and left the infobox errors that they caused. Anyway, all fixed now. MB 02:18, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, I see that I gummed things up. Glad all is right now. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:20, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for link to WP:Redhat

Thanks for pointing that out to me. I didn’t know about it and wasn’t sure if red links could be in hatnotes. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 18:53, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Lombardy

Hi MB, I saw your change at Lombardy, which I'm currently copy-editing, here. I'm puzzled by your edit summary "fix convert error" – how are the {{convert}} templates I and others added errors? Cheers, Baffle☿gab 01:36, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

@Baffle gab1978, one of them had a typo: {{convert|2000|kg|lb|abbr=o}} (abbr=o instead of abbr=on). That was an error that had to be fixed, and I just simplified all of them. MB 01:44, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Ah I see, thanks for explaining. Probably my error then; I did add a lot of convert tags there. All's good. :) Cheers, Baffle☿gab 03:05, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Stupid mistake...

... on my part: the 'V' in Robert van Scoyk is actually capitalized and should read Robert Van Scoyk. I can't fix it but gather that you can. Would you? Many Thanks. Cheers! Shir-El too 11:31, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Done. You should have been able to do that yourself with the MOVE tab. MB 15:05, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

I would have - if I had had a clue what you are referring to. Years ago I tried to make such a correction and was told to ask an admin. Thank you once again... and I'll try to stay out of your hair for a while at least, by way of appreciation. ALL THE BEST!!! Shir-El too 23:00, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

@Shir-El too, just so you know, after your account is four days old and you have made ten edits, you become WP:AUTOCONFIRMED which allows you to move most pages. Maybe you were a brand new user the other time you needed to do that. You should see a MOVE button, nearby the edit button. MB 00:04, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

HA! Found it just now... it's a tab under the "More" button, to the right of the "Add this page to your watchlist" star!!! {At least that's how it shows up on my page right now.} Here's hoping I don't need it soon. ('Thank you joke': "What is the difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't know and I don't care!!" It translates into other languages, too :) Much Appreciated! Shir-El too 09:48, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated

Hi, I'm Atsme. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed or created, Exorcise Tape, and have marked it as unreviewed. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you.

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

Atsme 💬 📧 17:35, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

That was an auto message - anyway, remember, we don't mark articles in Deletion discussions as reviewed. We need more eyes on it for one thing, and there is an overwhelming number of keeps that I don't consider justified, and neither does Kudz. Atsme 💬 📧 17:38, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

@Atsme, have you forgot the consensus is that we DO mark AFD articles as reviewed to remove them from the queue. Their fate will be decided by the consensus reached at the discussion. We don't mark CSD or PRODs as reviewed because those tags could be declined, but not AFDs. MB 17:42, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

I'm going by this formally closed consensus, and several prevailing opinions like this one.] Atsme 💬 📧 11:09, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Hey @Atsme. Sorry to get in the middle of this, but I think MB is correct. Per WP:NPP, Unlike CSDs and PRODs, you can mark AfDed pages as 'reviewed' after tagging them, as their fate will be decided via discussion and they can't fall through the cracks if tags are removed (a bot will restore them so long as the AfD discussion is open). That logic makes sense to me and is also in the flowchart. Hope that helps. –Novem Linguae (talk) 12:24, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying, but we need to make it formal to overrule the discussion I linked to, otherwise we will be subjected to on-the-fly changes without consensus. Atsme 💬 📧 12:42, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

@Atsme, @Novem Linguae, the first discussion you linked was closed as Consensus is to move forward with the proposal and the proposal was Should we stop marking articles tagged with CSD and PROD as 'reviewed' now that we can filter them in the NewPagesFeed? That is current practice to prevent CSDs and PRODs from "falling through the cracks" if contested. As NL said, this does not apply to AFD and is already documented. I recall I have mentioned this several times in the past year on the NPP TP to clarify for some people who where not sure of the policy and that did not lead to any new debate. The second comment you linked is from the same proposal you already linked, and does not include the later reply that reviewing an article at AFD does NOT index it for search engines which was Rosguill's primary concern. There has also been discussions at VP in the past year that concluded if an article survived AFD, even by no consensus, it shouldn't even be tagged for notabilty. I'm not sure I personally agree with that one, but the main point is that the AFD outcome is sufficient "processing" of the article. Why do you think we need to make it more "formal" than it is now (explicitly stated at Wikipedia:New_pages_patrol). MB 14:21, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

There are times when an AfD is closed as keep or no consensus based only on the closer's opinion and a single iVote, possibly 2; one of whom may be the article creator. That is not much different from a rejected PROD or CSD. I don't see how that could be considered a healthy consensus. NPP reviewers should at least get a second look at it. Per that same discussion: We now have a new filter at the NewPagesFeed that can filter out pages 'nominated for deletion' (CSD, PROD, and AfD, and soon to contain RfD as well), so we have a better solution for those that like to use the 'next' button; they can just uncheck 'nominated for deletion' and their system will just skip those articles in the queue. If an AfD ends in no consensus because there wasn't enough participation, any NPP reviewer should feel free to bring it up at WT:NPP for input, and at least give us a chance to either WP:FIXIT or renom with increased participation. It doesn't hurt anything for reviewers to participate in AfDs, quite the opposite is true. I wouldn't sweat the backlogs because having better quality articles in main space is far more important than rushing through reviews because of a backlog. If we are doing the job correctly, we should not be rushing through our reviews or making snap decisions that may lead to mistakes like this, and this. Atsme 💬 📧 15:41, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Let's move this to [Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Reviewers#Marking_AFDs_as_reviewed see link below ] –Novem Linguae (talk) 21:32, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

(a full month later:) i, as a Talk page stalker i guess, found this interesting and went to follow the link. The discussion is at slightly different name: Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Reviewers#Marking AFDd pages as reviewed. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 05:00, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Redirect target

Hi. Is there a reason you changed the redirect target for Nielsen ratings from Nielsen Media Research#Nielsen TV ratings to Nielsen Media Research#Sweeps? In general, the links to Nielsen ratings seem to be about the general ratings system and not the sweeps period specifically (Nielsen ratings are conducted throughout the year, not just during sweeps). Bennv123 (talk) 03:58, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

@Bennv123, I was fixing the redirect Sweeps which went to the merged article, so I changed to that to avoid a double redirect. For some reason, at the time, I thought Nielsen ratings should have the same target as Sweeps. I don't remember any more. Thanks for fixing. MB 14:15, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Ah I see. No worries then, just wanted to check to make sure I wasn't missing something. Bennv123 (talk) 14:33, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

"Ⓒ (technical rename)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Ⓒ (technical rename) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 31#Ⓒ (technical rename) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 14:29, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Reply

Hi MB, got your note. As that is a personal script of an editor that has edited as recently as last month, most of the int-admins would be reluctant to make any substantive changes to it. Minor syntax errors, or if it was causing some technical breaking problem aside. It sounds like you want something in between. So what now? Option 1, as you mentioned, is to fork to somewhere that will be more maintained. Option 2, start a section on the script talk, include exactly what you want changed (in a "Change X to Y" / "Remove lines n" / "Insert X before Y" type of request) notify the owner (talk page and email), wait a reasonable time (maybe 2 weeks), then open an edit request and an int-admin may do it for you. You could also ask in the same request if the author will allow the int-admins to process any "community feature requests" for their script in the future and document that on the page (refer to that in future edit-requests). Hope that helps? — xaosflux ^Talk 09:55, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

@Xaosflux, there have been several requests for updates on the Talk Page of the script, but no response there by the author since they effectively stopped editing in January, so I have little expectation of getting any reply to any new post, especially after emails have not been answered either. I have found someone who is going to update the script. According to the Wikipedia:User scripts/Guide By convention, scripts are in your userspace and have titles ending in ".js". Is that a requirement? Can a forked version be kept at WP:NPP with the appropriate protections, or does it have to be in someone's user space? (I realize it is called a User Script). F.Y.I, there are ~740/430 (active) users of this script. MB 03:18, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

@MB sounds like you are thinking of converting this to a "community script" - which is a good idea I think. It could be forked to MediaWiki:Gadget-SCRIPTNAME.js. It wouldn't be a "gadget" (yet) but by being a js page in mediawiki space, anyone could still import it - and most any reasonable edit requests would be handled. The "documentation" for it could live in Wikipedia:XXX space and be maintained by anyone. If it became much more popular (1000+ users) converting it to an actual gadget could be done as well, then people would activate it using the preferences menu. — xaosflux ^Talk 10:05, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Even creation of pages in the MediaWiki space is limited to interface admins. I guess I'll fork the script over to my userspace, modify it, test the crap out of it, and then ask you to move it to MediaWiki space. That works? -MPGuy2824 (talk) 10:22, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Just to be clear, we're talking about User:Evad37/MoveToDraft.js right? I'd prefer to keep it in the userspace of an active dev (MPGuy2824 since he sounds willing to work on it) rather than moving it to MediaWiki:Gadget space, which should make updating it easier. However, this forking idea means that the current users of the script will not get the updates. MB, feel free to chat with us about your full idea. Are you hoping to implement a "pick your message" feature? Catch up on bug reports and feature requests listed on the talk page? Something else? –Novem Linguae (talk) 10:26, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

@Novem Linguae that does sort of set up the same problem for the future. As an int-admin, I can say we're rather responsive to updates of things like this. Whomever wants to update it should keep a "personal" copy that they can update to test and develop anything, and just ask for that revision to be copied to mediawiki when ready. @MPGuy2824 yes, just drop an edit request at it's new home if you want to go that route (e.g. Mediawiki talk:Gadget-MoveToDraft.js). Keep in mind, any of this "moving" it to a new page will require the existing users to update their own personal script pages. I'm not strictly opposed to moving this all the way to an actual Gadget (initially in the 'Testing and development sub section) - provided there are some maintainers that know what they are doing and want to take it on. In that case, the "conversion" for users would be (a)remove from their common.js, (b) turn on in preferences. The update process would be the same as if it were in mediawiki space and not a gadget (someone files an edit request). — xaosflux ^Talk 13:33, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

If a gadget, it can also be only offered to people using certain skins, or with certain permissions. — xaosflux ^Talk 13:34, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

• I've tested it and its looking good. Looks even better than my wireframe. Just needs a couple of format tweaks. There's just one thing I hope no one has forgotten: this script will only be available to NPPers and admins. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 12:33, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

crowdfunding weapons topic

I see multiple news articles now about "crowdfunding weapons" (currently a redlink) being a thing now, a significant factor in the Russia-Ukraine war, although the idea was posed only as a joke at first. I have not reviewed the coverage for this, but I wonder if the discussion is ignorant of similar precedents in pre-internet history, i.e. the not-well-known Schools at War program. Which amounted to funding provided by a mutually-supporting crowd of ppl who could/would know about one another's contributions, and which purchased a specific airplane or other weapon that would be labelled/identified as funded by a specific school's campaign. And it was a kind of thing done widely, elsewhere, I think, like where citizens of some European city would contribute to fund a ship that would take the city's name. And perhaps (i don't know of specific weapons-focused examples though) the ladies of a southern or northern city during the ACW would get together and provide funds for an actual cannon or mortar or other weapon, or provide for purchase of the entire outfitting of rifles for a regiment (maybe distinct from their other, more in-kind-like or more care-package-like donations of sewing bandages, making uniforms, sending baked goods(?) etc.). FV103 Spartan article now mentions crowdfunding of that weapon, citing today's Guardian article that is one of those I saw. Interested? Doncram (talk,contribs) 18:50, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Per Field artillery in the American Civil War, a howitzer would cost about $500. Searching on "fundraising during the American Revolution" and "during the American Civil War" each yields multiple good hits, e.g. "Economic Support of Women During the American Revolution" covers ladies' comprehensive fundraising drives in Philadelphia, Trenton. During the Civil War fundraising fairs united the Union, about "sanitary fairs" and "fair fever". World War I wikipedia article: "On both sides there was large scale fundraising for soldiers' welfare, their dependents and for those injured", and there were 983 separate funds in New Zealand alone. There is academic and news coverage of this kind of thing. I dunno if an article could/should be focused on weapon-specific fundraising, or if that should first be a section in a broader war-time fundraising (currently a redlink) article. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 19:21, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

I see no category covering war-time fundraising. In Category:Fundraising there is only Schools at War which looks warlike. Trying "fundraising during the Franco-Prussian War" brings up "'The Rational Administration of Compassion': The Origins of British Relief in War" by Rebecca Gill, dans Le Mouvement Social 2009/2 (n° 227)". It mentions British National Society for Aid to the Sick and Wounded in War which in Wikipedia is a redirect to British Red Cross, which has brief interesting history including mention of training dogs to find wounded soldiers in no-mans-land. Obviously, or IMHO, relief work during a war that is aiding wounded soldiers and aiding widows back home is rather directly supportive of a given nation's war effort. And fundraising for purchase of a ship of war or other weapon seems different, but both are part of major topic of war-time fundraising, seemingly not covered in Wikipedia. Going back further, a given Viking ship was "funded" or directly built by a given settlement on a fjord somewhere. Organize by section for each war, I would think would be more interesting than organize by nation. Stopping now, gotta run, but I'm interested, anyhow. And thanks for stepping in on Charles Bolsius House! cheers, --Doncram (talk,contribs) 19:45, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

@Doncram, I'll keep this in mind, along with Tapestry brick and Beezer Brothers (identical twin architects, already linked from seven articles, I think mostly in Altoona, PA and then they moved to Seattle). I'm just very busy right now with NPP and haven't written an article in months. When I get some time, I'll probably do Beezer first - that sounds like the most fun, (don't beat me to it :)

What about Young's Park (Overland Park, Kansas)? Did you get my ping about you requesting that be deleted? Since there is no place to redirect it and it's already been Prod-ed, it has to go to AFD unless you ask for it to be deleted. MB 04:31, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

you're using autpmated tools, aren't you? I appreciate the concern, and the French. All is well. The limits of my tools honor the limits of yours :)

Elinruby (talk) 01:04, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

I am still asking nicely

Could you please take your bot elsewhere and stop creating work in this article? I will be reverting you, not because all of those changes are bad - I am pretty sure that you are right about the dashes, per MoS, for example - but I am still translating syntax here, not to mention the translation edits that CTX mangled because the article is long and my device memory is underpowered. For your edification, "a eu" is not a typo to "an eu" -- whatever that even means. It is a verb and means he/she/it "had had" something, a construction that is everywhere in this discussion of the vary historiography of a very old site that has been home to at least four civilizations. Maybe you should back off the caffeine a bit ;) Trinle is not the right to for sorting out Franglais. I say this as a native English speaker whose entire education was in French, who is translating a "Good Article". Check my user page. There is an enormous copy-editing backlog that is much better suited to your skills. I will also be reverting the "translation that needs to be reviewed" category, as I am the person who does that, and the tag is just silly. You are free if you insist to create an entry for it at WP:PNT, but that would be a waste of your time and mine, since I have been the only French language translator there for several years. Oh, and the orphan tag is also gone. While this may be true it won't be when I am done, and in the meantime it will just attract more people like you. This archaeological site has its own category tree and the page for each of those four cultures no doubt discusses the site. So please. Take your well-intentioned help somewhere where it will help not impede. The article is labelled as under construction, has been continously edited since you welcome me to Wikipedia, never wondering how a brand new editor comes to display awareness-of-discretionary-sanctions templates. I just lost a huge and complex translation in an edit conflict because *you* decided you knew what to do with French verbs. If you are interested in the article please feel free to come read it tomorrow sometime, when it will be all in one language. Some people's kids. Elinruby (talk) 04:15, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Pro tip: If you do your edits in smaller chunks it makes it easier for other people to revert you *only* where you are wrong, which in this case you are, several times over. Elinruby (talk) 04:18, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Elinruby, this isn't a very nicely worded request at all. "a eu" is not a typo to "an eu" is indeed correct. I am also perfectly bilingual French-English and a professional translator and writer for over 50 years. Whether you work at WP:PNT as I have done in years past, you don't own PNT or the articles you are writing or editing. Based on your comment above, your English could do with some copy-editing. This article is extremely easy to translate, but this this looks almost more like bits and pieces of a machine translation. Admittedly, even we bilinguals often let Google do the typing these days, but it's easy for us to clean up the style and cultural linguistic accuracy.

If you want to avoid bots interfering with your work, as a courtesy to MB and the rest of us at NPP who strive for quality in mainspace (and on this, we have just had a meeting with the WMF), there is nothing to stop you doing your translations offline first or at least in a user sub page; piecemeal translations 'in chunks' like this just invite interference from dozens of new bots. If I had seen it first I would have moved it to draft in an instant. If you have something to say to MB, say it, but spare the long rant please, you've been around long enough to know better. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:33, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Yeah? who is your contact ove there? Because I have a real problem with the quality of new page patrollers these days and and given the scope of problem I am sure it's systemic. Passive aggressive accusations of ownership notwithstanding. I don't OWN WP:PNT anf if you speak French you are welcome to work on the 80-odd articles in that backlog. Feel free to add this one if you think that it would do anything but sit. Feel free also, incidentally, to leave me alone to finish cleaning up after NPP. Your other very professional and quality-conscious NPPer left me a note in the article space in about 48-point type to say to say that {{Good article}} on fr Wiki doesn't count. I stand in awe of your quality consciousness over there. And I still have to comb through MB's edits that can't be reverted to make sure he actually read what he was editing, which I question because he welcomed me to wikipedia and edited verbs into gibberish. I figure I will be back where I was in about an hour or so. So sorry that I am not impressed. If you three re-read more slowly you may note that I said I was getting memory errors. This means that I bailed out of the program to save the work. I actually expected to have the option to go to draft. I don't know why I didn't and I am so so sorry if this offends you. OK? Now go away. I am fixing NPP quality and apparently you are not receptive to a critique of NPP bot use protocols, even though last I looked you guys are responsible for what you do with them Elinruby (talk) 06:40, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

@Elinruby, I was going to suggest if you want to work privately, you should follow best practice and not put an article into mainspace until it is finished. But I see another editor has already moved it to Draft space. There, you can work on it undisturbed until it is in better shape. I "noticed" your article because of errors that it caused and wererecorded in tracking categories. MB 05:44, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

{{ping|MB)) ok. See long answer above. Convenient for your bot != best practice in my eyes, but let's not gp there right now, k? I am not good at being patronized at the best of times. And seriously, what *you* can do help avoid another one of these is make fewer edits in one bite and avoid articles that have been edited in let's say, the previous 90 seconds -- barring vandalism of course. I don't know what you are using for a bot, but those would be useful parameters and might even be available to you as we speak. I was being sincere, not sarcastic, when I thanked you for the short description btw. I don't know how to do that. But please. Let's talk about this tomorrow. I expected to be going to bed with this finished by now. Elinruby (talk) 06:40, 8 November 2022 (UTC) @MB:

Newport Tashkent

Looks like you may have tagged this for deletion and it appears to be an almost immediate a recreation. I'll let you decide what to do with it. We need to think of what can be done in the software to improve the processing of issues like these. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 10:55, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

I had it on my watchlist, so I would have followed up in the morning if necessary. I found it was a duplicate of declined Draft:Newport, and I tagged it for G10 as an experiment - not sure if that applies when the duplicate is a draft (admin discretion?). The recreation was moved to draft by someone else, so now there are two drafts, which is what I was trying to avoid. It was recreated a third time and then G11'd. A typical case of someone ignoring being told their article doesn't qualify. Yes, we should talk about this. MB 16:25, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Got any suggestions? It would probably need a software solution unless a friendly admin would salt things like this. Even salting doesn't always work due to obvious workarounds. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:54, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Most of these are probably caught quickly by our crack NPPers. But I'm sure more could be done. I watch the daily update to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Disambiguation/Article_alerts (I have been involved with dabs since way before NPP). What about a bot that looked at every article CSD over a time period (perhaps a week) and listed articles created by the same author (since the deletion), or a title match or near-match by any author. It wouldn't prevent the immediate recreations, but it might cause some issues to be noticed sooner or not fall through the cracks. MB 16:56, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

John Westwood Page

Please can you explain why added a border to make a page more interesting and proffesional is "Innapropriate"

Again its subjective as I said before with reguards to deleting the use of the words "Nigel Farage" and "GB News" even when cited . Your political views may not aggree with GB News and you may not like the way a page looks but othera may its not innapropriate.

I mean do we live in a world were using a particular font or border color has to be "appropriate"

Thanks Len WikiEditor Lennon (talk) 02:51, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

@WikiEditor Lennon, see WP:INFOBOXSTYLE. There should be consistency between biographical infoboxes. The text formatting is done within the infobox template and shouldn't be changed. MOS:COLOR also says colored text should be avoided in most cases. MB 03:05, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Ok change it back again ill go with you on this one I think my editing of Wikipedia pages is finnishes to much hassel

Ok change it back again ill go with you on this one I think my editing of Wikipedia pages is finnishes to much hassel WikiEditor Lennon (talk) 03:07, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Im not an expert at Wiki Editing so as they say leave it to the pros ive given it a go theres to many rules for my liking WikiEditor Lennon (talk) 03:11, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

McLendon Cabin

Your suggestion to merge McLendon Cabin to James Bryant House has been sitting with no opposition for lo these many months. I think it's safe to assume you could go ahead and merge them.  :-). Joyous! | Talk 14:32, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

@Joyous!, done and thanks for the note. MB 14:53, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Franz Lazinger

I understand as to why you reset the page I had created. However, some if not all of the information on the page I added I directly received from Mr.Lazinger himself. I'm unsure how getting this information from him directly doesn't fit the guidelines as there isn't many third-party publications for the information he supplied already. There are plenty of wikipedia pages linking directly to information provided by the individual themselves.

I can of course look for other sources, as I do have a PDF scan of an interview he had done with Retro Gamer KunoDemetries (talk) 07:01, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

@KunoDemetries, it is explained in the links in the message I left on your talk page. If there aren't many third-party sources, then Mr. Lazinger may not qualify for an articles. See also HELP:NPR for another explanation of the requirements for an article. MB 13:52, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

My latest edit had 13 references from other Wikipedia articles which should've sufficed. I feel at this point there is a lack of looking on the Wikipedia forum moderators and assumptions being made. KunoDemetries (talk) 14:42, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

@KunoDemetries, see the message I left on your talk page. Wikipedia cannot be used as a reference. MB 14:54, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

I was using the references from Wikipedia pages, not the page itself. Which again, could've seen as well. KunoDemetries (talk) 14:56, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Hank Benson

I have other things to do in my life besides the internet, so I have a humble request for you. If you see User:Hank Benson makes one more malicious redirect, could you please ban him from Wikipedia? Flora Wilshire (talk) 17:00, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Cucamonga Junction article

Hi. My first simple searches also turned up one article on newspapers.com. But I was unable to access the QCR at the time. Later searches no longer find the one article.

My interest is two-fold (1) the nature and scale of the sale and (2) the parties to the sale. My recollection of the date of the hit I saw was 1966 or 1969, either of which relate to the general surge in federal shipments of flagstone.

I even went so far as to subscribe to newspapers.com because they said they were hiding one hit. But when I search from the new account, they say there is no article.

I would appreciate it, if appropriate, if you could share the details of the transaction in the article that you found.

IveGoneAway (talk) 02:30, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

@IveGoneAway, I just saved it for you: [1]. It's from 1956 and just says that someone buys stone from the quarries at C.J. MB 02:51, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Actually, I tried a different browser and got different results from newspapers.com, using the same account: this is probably the article that you found; Williams News 05 Jan 1956.

To me, there is some significance to the topic, particularly in the relationship between the two Williams businesses and the hardscrabble, unorganized "rock doodlers" in Cucamonga Junction. Moreover, it expressses the particular economic relationship (witnessed elsewhere) of the rock claim workers living on the quarries with the wholesalers in the town. The names of the businesses can corroborate other witnesses that tend to be oral.

The road between these Williams businesses and Cucamonga Junction, named DoubleA Ranch Road after 1960, would have been the route for hauling the stone, and is the road that Railfans said was "Cucamonga Road on most maps", and what wikidata labels as Cucamonga Road.

Oppologies for the confusion and delay.

IveGoneAway (talk) 03:06, 24 November 2022 (UTC) 18:24, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

@IveGoneAway, this started out in the deletion discussion for Cucamonga Junction, Arizona. I have seen no justification that this place is notable as a populated places under WP:GEOLAND, even if some workers lived there. If you dig up enough sources to create an article on Sandstone quarries in northern Arizona, go ahead and write it. But I don't see this is directly related to this AFD. MB 18:38, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

"Populated places without legal recognition are considered on a case-by-case basis in accordance with the GNG."

So, it was a populated place for decades, with a distinct character recognised in Williams and Ash Fork (citations available). The quarry report is relevant because there was one flagstone quarry concentration northwest of Williams. Those particular flagstone quarries are notable because of their impact on U.S. architecture of the first half of the 20th Century and their ongoing economic impact on the Ash Fork as a national source of architectural flagstone.

Nowhere do I claim that this article is the basis for the notablity of the Cucamonga Junction community, but it is ancilary, and one of a small number of the articles expressing the existance of the relationship with the other communities.

IveGoneAway (talk) 19:11, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

It is actually a rather curious situation. If you have a person or partnership come in and set up a cement plant and brought in workers, which could have happend here it there was any water, you would have a definitive place name as we have for dozens of abandoned cement communities. But here, hundreds at any time, indiviuals came in and worked independently on claims and raised families, for a span of time that far exceeded the cement communities.

Talk:Balijepalli Lakshmikantha Kavi

Hello, MB,

When you move articles, please leave a redirect for the Talk page if there are redirects pointing to that page. Otherwise, we end up with broken redirects which actually should be pointing to the new target page. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:07, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Undo

please undo it. Panwar (disambiguation) TheManishPanwar (talk) 10:45, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

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John Sitting Bull

hi there, you added short description: "Native american actor (c. 1862–1955)" to this page, I wanted to mention that the birth year is c. 1867, not c. 1862 as is evident in multiple such as the annual tribal census on Standing Rock Reservation and Pine Ridge Reservation, Sitting Bull surrender census of 1881, the 1940 and 1950 US Federal Census among other sources, also he actually had a social security number. If you don't mind to change the birth year on the short description to c. 1867 would be appreciated thanks and best regards, VON BERN Von Bern (talk) 19:38, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

@Von Bern, when I added that SD, the article said 1862. The article and the SD are both currently 1867, so there is apparently no problem anymore. MB 23:42, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

"Adriano (footballer, born 1982)" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Adriano (footballer, born 1982) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 December 5#Adriano (footballer, born 1982) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 10:17, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank You

Hi there, I came from my place to say "Thank You" for your works on the particular article named Ramakrishna Mission Shikshanamandira, which is created by me tonight. Keep helping me in this platform if possible and stay safe my friend :)

MB 15:01, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Burnside Public School

Hi I am so sorry for reverting your edits! If I did remove them it's because I thought I made a mistake while editing or something and had no clue someone else had actually edited something. I just assumed I had amnesia. This is my note to be more observant for sure!! Oh and they were good. I just didn't see them and because I'm kinda new to wikipedia I was a bit hyper aware to avoid mistakes. But thank you!

Helpingpeopleyay (talk) 09:20, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Peter Webb

Hi MB. For a new person to Wiki pedia you and the others have certainly made it a terrific experience. So great to know you all have my back and giving a chance for me to get things right and learn. Cheers mmd Manymanydogs (talk) 19:58, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Seasons greetings

Ohara Shoson (Koson), Egrets in Snow, Ohara Koson, 1927	Have a wonderful holiday season filled with peace, joy, prosperity and wonder.
	Hi MB, Thank you for all your contributions during the year. I really appreciate that you encouraged me to join NPP. May your 2023 be filled with creativity and good health. Image: Egrets in Snow, Ohara Koson, 1927 Netherzone (talk) 22:58, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

Happy Christmas

	Merry Christmas, MB
	or whatever else you may celebrate at this time of year. Thank you for all your work on Wikipedia throughout the year and may 2023 prove to be a happy and successful year for you and your family Josey Wales Parley 20:07, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello MB: Enjoy the holiday season and winter solstice if it's occurring in your area of the world, and thanks for your work to maintain, improve and expand Wikipedia. Cheers, Clovermoss🍀 (talk) 00:27, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

Spread the WikiLove; use {{subst:Season's Greetings}} to send this message

Happy Holidays

		Happy Holidays
		Hello, I wish you the very best during the holidays. And I hope you have a very happy 2023! Bruxton (talk) 17:48, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

RM discussion...

Mind closing it as well? since you had done the move. Talk:Alberto Suárez. – robertsky (talk) 18:02, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the edits

Thanks for your recent edits to Robert Hood (explorer). I wrote that yesterday at my mom's in the midst of Christmas day chaos(!), after Hood came up in conversation. Geordie (talk) 18:51, 26 December 2022 (UTC)