User talk:MSC0431

Welcome

Hello MSC0431 and welcome to Wikipedia! We appreciate encyclopedic contributions, but some of your contributions, such as the ones to Trevor Smith (ice hockey), do not conform to our policies. For more information on this, see Wikipedia's policies on vandalism and limits on acceptable additions. If you'd like to experiment with the wiki's syntax, please do so in the sandbox (but beware that the contents of the sandbox are deleted frequently) rather than in articles.

If you still have questions, there is a Help desk, or you can to ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. You may also find the following pages useful for a general introduction to Wikipedia.

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I hope you enjoy editing and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Feel free to write a note on the bottom of my talk page if you want to get in touch with me. Again, welcome! Drmies (talk) 23:43, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Your boilerplate edit summaries just mask the fact that you are removing references and text without any kind of real explanation. That's vandalism. Drmies (talk) 23:43, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

October 2023

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you remove or blank page content or templates from Wikipedia without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary, as you did at Trevor Smith (ice hockey). Drmies (talk) 23:45, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

Your account has been blocked indefinitely for advertising or promotion and violating the Wikimedia Foundation's Terms of Use. This is because you have been making promotional edits to topics in which you have a financial stake, yet you have failed to adhere to the mandatory paid editing disclosure requirements. Paid advocacy is a form of conflict of interest (COI) editing which involves being compensated by a person, group, company or organization to use Wikipedia to promote their interests. Undisclosed paid advocacy is strictly prohibited. Using this site for advertising or promotion is contrary to the purpose of Wikipedia.

If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, please read our guide to appealing blocks to understand more about unblock requests, and then add the text {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}} at the end of your user talk page. For that request to be considered, you must:

• Confirm that you have read and understand the Terms of Use and paid editing disclosure requirements.
• State clearly how you are being compensated for your edits, and describe any affiliation or conflict of interest you might have with the subjects you have written about.
• Describe how you intend to edit such topics in the future.

Drmies (talk) 00:01, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

OK brand manager, you weren't working on someone's profile, you were just vandalizing a Wikipedia article by deleting huge chunks of it. Drmies (talk) 00:03, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi there! I’m actually Trevor Smith’s wife, who also manages his personal brand. He’s here with me. We’re doing a full audit of his history and prior career now that he is retired and pursuing a new venture. He wanted to clean up his Wiki and remove unnecessary info that has either changed, or was incorrect to begin with. How can I prove that this is in good faith? Can I connect you directly with him? I assure you after this initial wave of edits our plan is to leave the account completely alone and move on. We look forward to hearing from you! MSC0431 (talk) 00:06, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

We created an email account for Wiki and tried figuring out how to edit it ourselves. We’ve never done this before but I appreciate your communication and understanding. We’d really love your help! MSC0431 (talk) 00:08, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

From a personal standpoint, he wants some of the information removed that he feels is his right for privacy. Hope you can understand. MSC0431 (talk) 00:10, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

You finally discovered the talk page: pity I had to block you in order for you to find it. The very first thing you need to do is read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest, so that you can properly disclose that conflict of interest. Once you have studied that and can explain that you understand why you were blocked, we can see what the next step might be. And don't forget that you are also blocked because you simply deleted information, saying "not correct info" or whatever. So maybe you should have a look at WP:VANDALISM also. Drmies (talk) 00:13, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Okay I’ll follow those steps. Thank you. I’ll touch base if I have any questions. Please don’t go too far. Appreciate your quick reply. MSC0431 (talk) 00:19, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Good Morning. Trevor and I reviewed the COI as well as Vandalism and understand why our initial edits were blocked. We understand that we could have also requested these edits rather than directly attempting to make changes ourselves. We also realize that our initial reasons for edits weren’t clear or acceptable. We would like to work with you on best next steps that respect the policies of Wiki and simultaneously allow us to make the changes that are necessary to not only protect his privacy but also remove information that is no longer relevant. What do you suggest the best next step might be? Thanks for helping us with this, we really appreciate it. MSC0431 (talk) 09:16, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

OK--place an unblock request, following the format laid out in the block template; I will let another admin decide. I don't have time right now for details, but here is the thing: privacy is one thing, but if stuff is published in reliable sources, it's not a private matter anymore. A few more things: it looked like any Jewishness was whitewashed out of the article; I found that odd. Also, outdated information? If something happened in the past and it's verified, how is it outdated? These are considerations. Drmies (talk) 12:30, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi there. I sent a few replies below, I think I properly followed the steps but I’m still a little confused. Can you please help guide me or connect me with someone who can help? MSC0431 (talk) 17:59, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

MSC0431 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

For privacy request. When you search other athletes or former athletes, there’s no mention of their religion. This is a very private matter and should not need to be showcased under this Wiki biography. Especially during the current tragedy overseas, religion should be respected and kept as private as the individual requests. I’m sure you can understand. Anything related to his religion is what we’re requesting to be removed. Please help! MSC0431 (talk) 15:43, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Accept reason:

Accepting per the discussion and condition below. 331dot (talk) 15:35, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Ok great. It seems the only place I can request an unblock is through my “talk page.” The talk page takes me directly back to this particular chat. Is this where I should be adding the following code: {{unblock|1=Insert your reason to be unblocked here [[User:MSC0431|MSC0431]] ([[User talk:MSC0431#top|talk]]) 15:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)}}? MSC0431 (talk) 15:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

You have requested unblock. You can only edit this page whe blocked. 331dot (talk) 21:35, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Can you clarify next steps? Did I incorrectly request the unblock or is there another step I need to be aware of? MSC0431 (talk) 21:36, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

You just need to engage with us here. Who is "we"? Please designate a single person to exclusively use this account. 331dot (talk) 21:38, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

I’m Trevor Smith’s wife. I can handle it for him. If it’s more legitimate that he steps in, I can somehow verify and switch the contact. Thank you! Noted. MSC0431 (talk) 22:27, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

I'll say right now that since he participated in the Jewish/Israeli only Macchabiah Games it's going to be very hard to keep the fact that he is Jewish out of the article. 331dot (talk) 21:41, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Does the article even need to be referenced? Yes the article exists, but can we remove the text and the reference article from Wiki all together? MSC0431 (talk) 22:28, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

If you are representing your husband, that is fine, as long as you are the only operator of this account. Please read about conflict of interest and tell us what you will do differently regarding your edits. That's the main issue here.

You could nominate the article for deletion, but the odds of it being deleted outright are probably close to zero. Your husband played professional hockey and that makes him clearly notable. In general, an article subject doesn't get to exclusively decide if there is an article about them on Wikipedia. A subject could argue that they are not notable as Wikipedia defines the term, but that would be difficult in this case.

The chances are slightly better- though not great- that references to his religion be removed. I see looking more carefully that he didn't actually play in the Macchabiah Games due to injury- but there is well cited information about that. You might be able to get the first line of the Early life section removed as it isn't specifically cited.

Anyway, what we are looking for to unblock you is an understanding of how to conduct yourself under the COI policy. 331dot (talk) 00:10, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Hi! Thank you for a thorough reply. After spending more time reading and understanding the COI policy and different scenarios, I ensure you (Wiki has my word) that any future edits would merely be a suggestion posed to an editor before attempting to make any changes myself, directly. I would first check with an editor to gauge COI and make sure it was acceptable beforehand. I will not vandalize, or aggressively try to edit any information on his page, or any other pages, after this wave of edits are made regarding his religion. We really hope to put this behind us and move forward feeling we have the level of privacy we deserve. I will respect all Wiki’s policies moving forward.

My goal is to have anything related to his religion removed completely. Since he was injured for the Maccabia games, my hope is that we can remove his involvement all together, since he wasn’t actually invoked, even though an article exists somewhere that says he maybe would have been a part of those games.

I really appreciate your time helping me solve this. Look forward to hearing back! MSC0431 (talk) 10:35, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

You may use the edit request process(click for instructions) on the article talk page, Talk:Trevor Smith (ice hockey), to propose edits. Rightly or wrongly, being in a very public career means that others will write about your husband, and what those people write can generally be summarized on Wikipedia. I've tried to give you fair warning- it's going to be very hard for you to keep well cited, public information out of the article about your husband, and even if you succeed, you will need to be contantly vigilant that someone else unaware of your efforts will not come along and re-add it. As I advised above, the chances of the article being deleted outright are close to zero, so I would encourage you not to expend your time pursuing that in particular. As a human being, I'd love to be able to tell you we can just do what you would like done, but we are dealing with the realities of the 21st century for those in public careers.

All of that said, I will remove the block if you agree to refrain from editing the article about your husband in most cases(you may remove clear vandalism should it occur), and pursue changes using community processes like edit requests. 331dot (talk) 11:08, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

I would further add that even if you are successful, there will be a record of the discussions regarding your efforts; while these would not be part of the article, they would still be publicly visible(even if not found by search engines as talk pages usually aren't). 331dot (talk) 11:10, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining all of this, and for your honestly. It really helps me understand how Wiki works and what to expect moving forward. I will follow the proper steps for edit request, and at the very least just simply request the first sentence is removed that immediately announces his religion (which again feels unnecessary, as it doesn’t define him nor is he strongly religious). Thanks for your help and understanding. Do I wait for you to let me know when I’m clear to request the edits? Thanks for working with me to remove the block. I’ll wait to hear from you first before taking any further steps. MSC0431 (talk) 09:37, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

• Drmies Do you object to an unblock if she pursues changes via edit requests as she's indicated? 331dot (talk) 09:45, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

  The biggest edit request I plan (hope) to make is in his Early Life segment: remove the connotation to his religion in the first sentence, and removing the last sentence about his father coaching the Maccabiah games (which Trevor never actually played in). That sentence is not directly relevant to Trevor and would belong on his fathers Wiki page.

  Here’s my genuine wish for the revised Early Life paragraph:

  “Smith was born in Ottawa, Ontario. He is the son of Harvey Smith. His parents are originally from Montreal, Quebec. Smith grew up in Vancouver, British Columbia.” Period.

  Again, I want to do this in the most respectful way possible abiding by Wiki policy. I hope you can understand! The rest we can leave alone. 2601:18D:8700:3950:2CF7:5F67:EBA0:D20 (talk) 12:33, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

  Remember to log in when posting. I'm just waiting for comment by the blocking admin. 331dot (talk) 12:44, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

  • • • 331dot, thank you for your efforts here. Yes, I'm fine with it. MSC, tread lightly and good luck. If you post on the talk page and get little traction, you might could ask on WP:BLPN--just be concise. Drmies (talk) 13:09, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

        Thank you! Just to clarify, would I click (Add New Topic) on the Talk Page to request the edit? I’m fishing through articles and trying to connect the dots, but want to make sure I post the edit request in the right spot! MSC0431 (talk) 12:46, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

        If you click "Add new topic", it will create two edit windows, one for a section header and another, larger one for your edit. You would place your request and the edit request template in the larger edit window. You would make any subsequent edits by clicking "edit" in the section header, or at the top of the talk page. 331dot (talk) 12:50, 26 October 2023 (UTC)