User talk:Natalie.Desautels/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Error on WP language drop-down menu when one creates a new user

I am very new to Wikipedia. I would like to point out an error on your language drop-down menu when one creates a new user. I wanted to choose Canadian French; you have [ frc français cadien ] . This should be [ frc français canadien ] . Hope this helps. This sort of database entry can not be corrected by a user, as you know. Merci infiniment! Natalie —  Preceding unsigned comment added by Natalie.Desautels (talk • contribs) 08:34, 7 February 2015

I think the best place to report this is probably Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). I was going to post to there for you, but to find exactly what I needed to write, I tried going to the "create a new account" page, and I couldn't find any drop-down list of languages. Can you describe exactly where it is and how you get to it? The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 10:37, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Help me!

Hi. I am new on Wikipedia and am trying very hard to abide by all the guidelines. Would you be so kind as to look over the page I have been developing and perhaps give me your comments and insight. I would like to submit the page soon. I am sure that when the page goes "live", others will be eager to contribute. This evening I have had to reword some sections because of copyright issues, and I believe everything is in accordance with Wikipedia principles now.

My page on MICHAEL LAUCKE is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Natalie.Desautels/sandbox

Thank you so much in advance for your kind response.

Merci!

Natalie Desautels

Natalie.Desautels (talk) 07:42, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

  • I have had a look at Draft:Michael Laucke. You have evidently put a lot of work into the draft article, and in many ways you have done a good job. However, I'm afraid it is not acceptable as an article, because from start to finish it reads like a piece of PR for Michael Laucke: it gives the impression that you think he is great, and you want to persuade us to agree with that view, whereas a Wikipedia article needs to be written from a neutral point of view. If the page were posted as an article, it is likely it would be deleted very quickly as pure promotion. My advice to new editors is that it is best to start by making small improvements to existing articles, rather than creating new articles. That way any mistakes you make (which you will, because we all do) will be small ones, and you won't have the discouraging experience of repeatedly seeing hours of work deleted. Gradually, you will get to learn how Wikipedia works, and after a while you will know enough about what is acceptable to be able to write whole new articles without fear that they will be deleted. Over the years I have found that editors who start by making small changes to existing articles and work up from there have a far better chance of having a successful time here than those who jump right into creating new articles from the start. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 10:28, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
@Natalie.Desautels: At a very quick glance, which is all I have time for now, it looks much better. Good work. I will try to check it more thoroughly when I get time. If I don't get back to you within two days, please remind me, as often I tend to put things aside to deal with later, and then forget them. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 15:08, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
@JamesBWatson: Well, quick is better than no glance at all : ); it is much appreciated. I very much look forward to your kind feedback, when you get the time. I have been focusing as hard as I can on honoring Wikipedia's important principles of neutrality, verifiable content and no new research; hopefully I have made strides along this path. ...à bientôt. Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 06:22, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
@JamesBWatson:Following through on your suggestion, I was wondering if you could look over my draft at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Michael_Laucke . I believe I made more progress with it, and I am hoping to get feedback from you, to get an idea if it would be acceptable for submission at this stage. (I actually don't know how to submit, but I recall seeing a submit code somewhere that I place on top of the page; ...shouldn't be too hard to find it again.) Very much looking forward to learning your opinion,...and thank you very much in advance for your kind help. best regards, Natalie
--Natalie.Desautels (talk) 20:32, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
@JamesBWatson: Hello. I trust you are well. I was hoping that you would have a brief moment to quickly look over my revamped potential submission. Kindly let me know your thoughts? Would it be ready to submit.... Thanks very much in advance, as always. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 17:57, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia!

Hello, Natalie.Desautels, and Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{Help me}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking if shown; this will automatically produce your username and the date. Also, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field with your edits. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 16:06, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Getting started
Getting help
Policies and guidelines
The community
Writing articles
Miscellaneous

Natalie, I have a few things to say which may be helpful to you, but right now I am short of time, so maybe I'll come back in a day or two and say more. For now, I'll just say these three things.

  1. I have posted at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) about the mistake for French Canadian in the preferences drop-down box. I hope someone who can deal with it will see my message there.
  2. You should now be autoconfirmed, which means that you should be able to post on my main talk page if you want to, so I have moved your messages from my "open" talk page to there. If you find you still can't edit there, let me know, and I can give you confirmed status. Please do feel welcome to contact me again if you have any questions or requests for help. There's a good chance that I will either be able to help you myself or else tell you where you are likely to find someone else who can help.
  3. The "Welcome" message above gives links to various Wikipedia policies, guidelines, and other pages which may be useful to you. Don't try to read and learn everything there before you do any more editing, because there is far too much to take in, but do have a look at anything which looks as though it may be relevant to your needs, and of course you can always come back to it in future when you need to. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 16:06, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

A tip regarding your username

If you add a bit of content (anything) to your [[User:Natalie.Desautels]] page your username will change from red as it is now to blue. Click on the red userlink I just provided, add some content, save it, and your name will post blue from then on. Cheers! ...Checkingfax ( Talk ) 21:06, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Thanks again for yet another really good tip! I've had the pleasure to carry out your recommendation. best, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 22:03, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Launched [[Draft talk:Michael Laucke]]

I launched the [[Draft talk:Michael Laucke]] so you can have Draft discussions by clicking on the Talk tab over there. I also added a {{talk header}} template and a {{not a forum}} template to the top. If you blank sections from the Talk page, be sure to not blank those. Actually you might want to archive sections instead of blanking them, if needed. Cheers! ...Checkingfax ( Talk ) 00:06, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Elton John's thoughts on Copyright ...a complex, controversial issue.

@StarryGrandma:@GrammarFascist: @Cordless Larry:

Several years ago, I heard an interview with Canadian guitarist Michael Laucke who was talking about his work for AIDS with Elton John. He went on to talk about copyright; he was saying that Elton is a sort of "open source" type of person; for example, when asked about illegal copying, Elton's attitude was "Frankly, I would be more concerned if no one wanted to copy my music." Why more concerned? Because the promotional value of what some consider "stealing" can actually bring to a product more value than if the product were actually purchased; publicity is an expensive commodity. In other words, to give but one example, the total amount of the publicity value of illegally copied CDs is in some cases greater than the monetary gain of the would-be sold CDs; some established musicians have said as much. ...food for thought, to be sure... Natalie.Desautels (talk) 03:43, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Psst: another tip: you can "ping" up to seven Editors with one template. Just separate their usernames with pipes. So it looks like this: {{ping|StarryGrandma|GrammarFascist|Cordless Larry|User 4|User 5|User 6|User 7}} There is a magic "50" too. Something about only being able to do 50 total pings per day with the ping template. You can check out the parameters here: {{ping}}. It renders like this: @StarryGrandma, GrammarFascist, Cordless Larry, User 4, User 5, User 6 and User 7. Cheers! ...Checkingfax ( Talk ) 05:07, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

@StarryGrandma: ...very cool. I also like the un-disturbing use of code. Btw, I'm amazed by all the meticulous editing you did! I've seen Classical Guitar with caps for so long but the lower case for this musical genre makes sense. It took me a bit of, well, conjuring up flexibility to grasp the idea of "Articles written by [no name]" and "Pieces written for [no name]". It gave me pause, but as I looked deeper inside (well not too deep) and felt what this is about, I came to find this way more refined; I like it! One doesn't see it often though, but it is superior. The Julian Bream page shows us [written for Julian Bream]. So thanks again for this subtle little refinement. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:26, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
While copyright is a complex issue generally, in Wikipedia articles it is a matter of protecting Wikipedia from legal problems. To quote Wikipedia policy in Wikipedia:Copyrights: However, if you know or reasonably suspect that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work. An example would be linking to a site hosting the lyrics of many popular songs without permission from their copyright holders. Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States (Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry [1]). The ruling in the court case was that a site had to take down links to other sites that violated copyright; it was not enough just to remove the material from its own pages. One would hope copyright laws would allow reasonable use, but Wikipedia has to operate within the law as it exists. StarryGrandma (talk) 05:39, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
@StarryGrandma: Than you for that very clear explanation. I understand the concept of contributory infringement.
So, be that as it may, in the case of the page I am creating, I cannot myself in good conscience provide any links to the articles we mentioned, even External Links, because the copyright holder is the publisher of the newspaper and not the writer of the article. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 06:24, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Further research uncovers important Photo source info for "File:Michael Laucke with Andres Segovia -PBS TV at Met Museum NY.jpg". Your input?

@StarryGrandma: @Hedwig in Washington, Túrelio, Bgwhite, and GrammarFascist:@Checkingfax:

Hello again. I was hoping you might be able to help with some expert advise on the folowing issue, as you have been very helpful in the past. This concerns a photo where the following facts have been ascertained:

  • The photo was created by an employee of Mr. Laucke as part of that person's job, (a work for hire).
  • The photo was taken by an assisant of Mr. Laucke, called Christine Arenella of New York
  • Mr. Laucke certified that he own alls rights pertaining to this photo.
  • Creative Commons CC0 1.0 Universal Public Domain Dedication is attributed whereby Mr. Laucke waived all rights, thus all rights are released and the photo may be freely used.

So what could the problem be?

The topic in question is elaborated upon on the talk page of User:Checkingfax and is found here, as well as on the Commons:Deletion requests page which is here:

Thanks very much once again for your kind attention. best wishes, appreciatively, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 20:11, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Du erhältst einen Orden!

Der Fleißorden
Regarding your work on the Laucke-PBS photograph: Well done, well done indeed. Hedwig in Washington (TALK) 03:17, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

@Hedwig in Washington: Das ist großartig. Es ist mit großem Stolz, dass ich nehme diese Auszeichnung für außergewöhnliche Kontrolle, Präzision und Zivildienst.

(That's great. It is with great pride that I accept this honor for extraordinary scrutiny, precision and community service.)

But I'd better stop here; German is my sixth language and, as such, it is, well, kind of rusty right now. Thank you again. Merci! best wishes, Natlalie in Paris --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 03:35, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Open Access edit-thon starts tomorrow

It's only five days. This edit-thon is co-run by Jake who was the lead developer on [[The Wikipedia Adventure]] and is also the lead on the Wikipedia Library Project (free access to 40 paywalled sources). Check it out. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}}{Talk} 04:15, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Fantastic news and link! Pity it happens precisely during my family week here in Paris, until October 27th ... This is really exciting though ..I will try to catch as many Webcasts as I am able to. Thanks again. very best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 04:44, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm famous

An edit I participated in made has resulted in a complaint on Jimbo Wales talk page. Here is a diff for the edited page. The diff is for where the edited page started in 2003 and you can click on 'next version' to see how the page matured. Originally it was even more hardscrabble than the Sony page. It is fascinating to me that in the early days you could just type up any old page with no citations. Now WP is totally hardcore about citing RS for every stated non-obvious fact. You don't have to to cite that 'the sky is blue' but just about everything else requires a cite. You can read more on the article Talk page about the disputed edit by clicking on the Talk tab from the diff. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 22:08, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax:Congratulations! Also, this is very timely. I read about leads and thought about that precise sentence "The lead is the first part of the article most people read, and many only read the lead". Also that the lead has to pique the reader's curiosity to read more. So I am revising my thoughts on the first paragraph of the lead; the challenge is to not sound promotional, and stay neutral. Thanks for sending this my way; always timely and pertinent, it seems : ). Cordiallement, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 02:03, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Special Characters box

@Checkingfax:

I was thinking that the Special Characters box may not be necessary, since it seems to refer to, let's say, more exotic languages (non roman alphabet). This does not apply to latin languages like French, Spanish, Italian, Romanche. I may be mistaken though. The accents show up fine here on Windows Vista and 7 with Chrome, Firefox, IE. Does everything display ok on your machine? Look at quote 31 Can you see the accents in 

Grand Théâtre du Québec

. Also, do you archive your talk page? Thanks again. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 02:05, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Natalie.Desautels, I misunderstood. I thought you said some characters would not render for all readers. Yes, I can see the accents.
Do you want some kind of a box that advises readers that the page is multi-lingual in parts?
@Checkingfax:Yes, it would be excellent if I could get a box that tells readers that the page is multi-lingual, French and Spanish accents...--Natalie.Desautels (talk) 03:28, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
I do archive my Talk page entries, but only manually but I just started using 'one-click-archiver' which automates the manual process (I don't use a timed Bot like many pages do). I only archive threads that don't seem too interesting.
You can archive comments with cut and paste. Just create a new page with a name like: Archive 1, and then paste the comments over there. Put an archive top and an archive bottom template on that page. I think that's all you need. You might need this template on your Talk page: {{archives}} (without the tl). Some users name the archive pages with date ranges, or they set up their auto bot archiver to name them with a certain date nomenclature. I've seen Talk pages for articles with 11 year old history showing with no archiving. Here is what your archive page name could look like: [[User Talk:Natalie.Desautels/Archive 1]]. After you create the page and put the archives templates up, the search box on your Talk page will list all the archive pages.
If an entry is delete worthy, I blank the entry and the heading (like DAB notices, or such), save the blanking and it's out of view (it will still remain as a diff forever). Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 02:28, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Super! I like [[User Talk:Natalie.Desautels/Archive 1]] and have saved the template for when I'm ready. But how do I find it as time goes by? Do I have to remember the pathway "Natalie.Desautels/Archive 1" forever? Is there a nice user-friendly directory somewhere? --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 03:33, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
Look at the top of your Talk page above the archive search box it says Archive 1 now. Click on the numeral '1'. Bam! Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 03:45, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Wow, that was easy! I'll just follow this pattern for Archive 2 and so on.Thanks! --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 04:04, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Somewhat happy with Sandbox lead; hesitant to copy/paste to main article

@Checkingfax: My refinements to the lead have advanced well I think, and I'd like to copy/paste into the main article. Will that mess up the references? Should I proceed one sentence at a time and then carefully add the references the same way? I have the optomistic feeling that if I paste into the main page, that the references' built-in intelligence will assign the correct reference numbers ...I hope ... --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 03:38, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

If you maintained the valid reference names that point to references in the body of the article, or if you added new references to the lead, it should be fine. Might be some slight tweaking if you made a boo boo. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 03:47, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax:OK; I'll give it a try, carefully. I was concerned about what might happen if references in the lead and body hhappen to have the same ref number. ...should go fine with a little prudence ...--Natalie.Desautels (talk) 04:06, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
If you created new named references in the lead that already have the same name in the body then the lead named one will walk on the body name one and will result in a displayed error when you save the page.
If you call out named refs in the lead that do not exist in the body then those won't work either. Each named ref needs a unique name, and then that name is only repeated when you shorthand the ref again elsewhere in the article. You can actually use a shorthand ref in the beginning of an article and define it later with the full reference. Does that make sense?
When you copy/paste the new lead if it causes too much trouble you can immediately 'undo' the change, but if you make another edit you cannot undo that change and you have to undo it manually. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:43, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Makes perfect sense ...not at all difficult to grasp. I would go slowly and use Preview often to see if everything works as it should. If not, I'll make the appropriate adjustments. Merci! --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 04:56, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Can just any registered user make edits?

@Checkingfax: As simple as this question is, I have been wondering about it for some time. Can just any registered user come and make edits, and possibly mess up all one's hard, passionate work? I mean they could add to it also, of course. What is the process, if any? Are new edits screened somehow? I guess I can undo them... --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 03:39, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

"Wikipedia is the encyclopedia that anybody can edit". They warn you in the edit window that your work can be edited by anybody. You can keep an eye on it to make sure that only constructive edits are made, and you can always refine them. For vandalism you just revert them. If you enable Twinkle and get on the Twinkle list you can easily ROLLBACK vandalism. Rollback is like undo on steroids and it's semi-automated. There is no process to lock a page from editing, but if it becomes problematic there are varying degrees of protection like semi-protect, full-protect, or pending-changes protect. When changedforthebetter took Monica Geller to Good Article she slashed a lot of what she called "fan cruft". It's not her page, as nobody owns a page, but she dove right in and nobody reverted her efforts even once. I try to refer to Laucke's article as Laucke's article rather than "your" article, but since you launched it, you can take credit for that. Many times editors put lists of "pages I started or substantially contributed to" on their User pages. I think there is a guideline entitled [[WP:Ownership]]. or may WP:OWN. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 03:55, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Wow, great information! Indeed, I was aware of "anybody can edit" but didn't know about Twinkle (now installed) and other protections, if need be. I'll certainly keep an eye out!
I don't really feel the need for any credit, I just wouldn't want the Laucke article distorted or to be a victim of any ill-will. Wikipedia is a fantastic adventure, more than I expected, and I'm very happy to contribute my time to it. It is a stimulating experience and gave me many other ideas for other articles, in music.
The "pages I started or substantially contributed to" on my User page might be a consideration, but probably not; ...I just like the idea of contributing to the sum total...
Btw, I found lots of music pieces by Laucke which are partial clips. I'll look into the licensing. I can convert any format into well, anything. It would be interesting to link to some sound samples. I see that a guitarist such as Lenny Breau has lots of audio links, as does Ennio Morricone.
I was surprised to see Lenny referred to as an American, since, in 1957, his parents moved their family to Winnipeg, Manitoba in Canada . I should go in and correct that. See, "anybody can edit"! --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:00, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
Try to find an RS that supports your knowledge so it's not OR. Then link the ref right on to your change with a ref tag. And make a good edit summary to support your change. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} —Preceding undated comment added 05:08, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: I corrected lots of refs; too bad that Proveit does not Save for me, but it still points out errors so it's still valuable. Many errors occurred because I put the newspaper name the Newspaper field instead of the Work field. It still read fine for users but Proveit says it's not correct. I am changing the ref numbers little by little to something more descriptive and usefull, as you suggested. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 04:19, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
After filling out the ProveIt fields, press the down arrow to hide ProveIt, then click on Save and your efforts will be saved, right? Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:25, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Proveit saves intermittently on my laptop (the only machine I have with me in Paris). There is a bug somewhere, but I have quite a few other editing tools. Anyway, I like to use reFill or Proveit to find things to correct, and then go in manually to fix; I feel secure this way and it's also a good learning experience. Thanks again. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 03:03, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Wrong photo in preview link

Natalie.Desautels, Phabricator ticket links: {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 13:43, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T116261
Tracked in Phabricator
Task T115975
Tracked in Phabricator
Task T115689

@Checkingfax: If you go to any page with a link to Michael Laucke, such as List of flamenco guitarists and hover over the link to Michael Laucke, it shows the wrong photo; it use to automatically link to the photo in the infobox. I think this has something to do with that photo being deliberated upon in Commons, slated for possible deletion, and then being brought back as perfectly legal. Your thoughts on this? Would you know how to fix this, or is it an automatic mechanism? Many thanks. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:11, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

I'll submit a ticket to Phabricator. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 05:23, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
OK, I submitted the ticket: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T116261
BTW, you don't need underscores in wikilinks, and in fact they are discouraged because it can break certain parsers. I removed them.
I clarified that this was an issue in VisualEditor not in the web browser. I corrected a slight typo: use >>>> used. Phabricator is really slow. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 05:36, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Thanks! ...eager to learn the results; I guess you mean the Differential code review tool Phabricator... --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:43, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
Click on the link above to see what I submitted. Basically just pasted your report in there. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 05:51, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Nice ...I bookmarked the ticket to keep abreast. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:57, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
The Phabricator team said it's not a VisualEditor issue so they've put a different crew on solving the issue. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:26, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
It seemed like the parser was picking up my last uploaded image for the page default photo so I did several experiments but they were not fruitful. Maybe there were to many permission changes in Commons, and someone forgot to click something; ...have to wait. Thanks for the update; I have the Phabricator team page bookmarked. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 04:45, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Embedded images in the reference section cause page rendering problems

@Checkingfax: Based on a gut feeling, I was able to fix the issue where hovering over a link to Michael Laucke brought up the wrong image, instead of the customary image in the infobox. I simply deleted the embedded images in the reference section. I tested by deleting them one by one and could see that each time I deleted a reference-embedded image, the Hover link would pick up the next reference-embedded image. When I got rid of all the embedded images in the reference section, the correct image in the infobox appeared in the hover over link. I would like to report this, but don't know where. In other words, embedded images in the reference section cause page rendering problems. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 02:47, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Put an image back, let me know which one it is, and I'll add it to our Phabricator trouble ticket. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 03:00, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

HOVER LINK: HIDDEN ERROR: Usage of "_VALUE_" is not recognized

When hovering over the link to Michael Laucke, the image in the infobox is picked up fine, but the page text does not render, and reads "HIDDEN ERROR: Usage of "_VALUE_" is not recognized". The link works however. When one gets to the Michael Laucke article, the same problem occurs when hovering over Elton John --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 02:53, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Is this when you are in VisualEditor? Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 03:04, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Fun with javascripts

There is a cool tool called [[reFill]] for automatically dressing up [[WP:BURL]] bare URLs. This will put a link called reFill on your left-hand tool bar. Afer installing I like to: go to the page I want to dress up, click on the *options* superscript link on the reFill link, only check the bottom checkbox ("Use the base domain name as work= when this information cannot be parsed") and the 3rd one from the bottom ("Add blank metadata fields when the information is unavailable"), and leave the other boxes unselected. That's how to use it.

Here is how to install it (easy peezy)...

  • Copy this Javascript to your clipboard:
mw.loader.load( "https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Zhaofeng_Li/Reflinks.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript" );
  • Click on this [[link]] to open your common.js page
  • Open the page for editing, paste the Javascript to the bottom of the common.js page, and save it
  • Then: Purge server cache (click on the baby blue link on this line)
  • Wait several seconds after loading an article for the reFill(options) link to populate in to your toolbar. It's slow to load ... last thing

I hope you like it. reFill does not plump up all the URLs but it plumps up the low hanging fruit. I just build refs like this: <ref>http://www.myreferenceurlofchoice.com</ref>, save my edit, wait for reFill to populate on the toolbar, then hit reFill and let it do the plumping. It's blocked from checking nytimes.com ... bummer. If you bounce around Wikipedia you can do a reFill on each page you visit, and you'll start getting a more diverse user profile so you don't appear to be a [[WP:SPA]]. It only takes a couple of minutes. . Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:02, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: The web page for reFill works well too! Thanks. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:06, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
With the web site you have to scroll down the page to get to the options, then scroll back up to hit go. Also, it's just quicker to not have to type or paste the article name in to the the box for which site you want it to work on. It's the same tool, under the hood. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 05:09, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Cool; I see now. Thanks. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:14, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
And for sources from Google books, just plug the url into the reftag app and it will generate a {{cite book}} reference all ready to copy and paste into your article. Mathglot (talk) 00:36, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Howdy! Your last comment led me to revisit this Javascript implementation of reFill, which, as simple as it is, I couldn't get to work (Chrome). But I finally got it installed. It might look as if I deviated from my usual pattern of working on Michael Laucke, but that's only because I got so excited about this fantastic tool that I visited many musicians I love and fixed a few little items. I cant thank you enough! You are so right about the quicker way of having it available in the left side bar menu. ...would be amazing if it worked in other languages. I tried in Spanish, German and of course French, but the menu didn't appear. But all the musicians I visited had articles in English anyway. So, well, I just want to thank you again for guiding me through the setup process, and of course for your generosity of sharing and sending it my way. These are the type of programs I love—what a time saver! best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 09:12, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Leave the links up

I put a michaellaucke.com link on The Earwig's article. I was telling him he could remove it. You don't need to remove any links from the Michael Laucke article. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 10:38, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Thank you; much appreciated. I uploaded dedicated public domain images from Flickr, which all passed the Commons test in the past. Some of these are concert programs which typically one gives away the evening of the concert. I see Laucke has again waived all rights. Many of the links I used directly to michaellaucke.com were in fact to these programs; I found them historically interesting, and musically as well because they indicate the musical works performed that evening. Sometimes there is a review that comments on the substance on the musical work, how it was interpreted, and so on. So, I was thinking of substituting these images, now in Commons, for the michaellaucke.com links. ...wouldn't take too long. Good idea? --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 11:07, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
The whole copyright and RS thing on Wikipedia makes my head want to explode. I trust your judgment since you had your feet to the fire at the Commons tribunal. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 11:16, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Great; I'll take care of this later today. This way the links are still there so that when I replace them with undeniably internal links, I dont have to rethink what goes where. ...Paris stint, with it's majestic streets and sumptuous restaurants coming to an end in a few days ...back to America, the promised land. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 11:26, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your recent edits! Comment

@Checkingfax:...just a quick thank you for all the fine edits, especially the removed ellipses. I read the article over so many, many times. I felt subconsciously that something had to be done whenever I saw the (former) ellipses. But I was just too close to it I guess. As small as this may seem, it makes an important difference. I like the emdash template —. Also, it is good to know that you can have several of ref first and last names if you number them. I've been busy with last minute preparations for getting back to North America; I should be back in 2 days. Thanks so much, once again; it is so appreciated. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:33, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

FYI – there's an {{ndash}} template too.
@Checkingfax: Thanks for leading me to Manual of Style – Dashes – the en and em dash shortcut to the right of the Insert drop down is handy. Best wishes, Natalie (back in Canada) --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:45, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
PS. – interesting reading on the use—or the misuse—of dashes. Thanks again. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:58, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Open access (OA) in a closed world

A main proponent of Open Access (OA) in 2001 opened a panel discussion at the WMF HQ in SF last night which I attended: http://wikistrategies.net/oa-wikipedia-panel/. It was live-streamed on YouTube worldwide. I took the [[BART]] in from my home over the hill and across the bay to SF. It was great. My first time to "come out of the shadows" of anonymity. I met Jake Orowlitz (User:Ocaasi or User:Ocaasi (WMF)) who is the founder of The Wikipedia Adventure and The Wikipedia (OA) Library. WMF in paren means he's a WMF employee [[WikiMedia Foundation]]. I also had a nice chat with Doctor [[James Heilman]] (User:Doc James) who flew down from Canada to hear this panel and attend to some other WMF functions and events. Doc is notable enough to have his own Wikipedia article. I was the only person in the audience who raised their hand when the moderator asked "who is a subscriber to the Wikipedia Library?". That surprised me and everybody laughed when I said "I'm the only one?". It was a 90-minute discussion but I arrived early for mixing it up, pizza, beer, and soda. Went to a bar after and chatted with three of the six panelists for an hour. Also chatted with some other Wikipedians and some not. I happened to catch the same BART train home as one of the panelists (a UC Berkeley biology professor) and we talked for nearly another 30 minutes. His back hurt so he stood the whole time on the train. The WMF HQ is 1/5th of a mile from the BART escalator on Market Street in SF. Through the Wikipedia Library I now subscribe to [[WP:Highbeam]] and [[WP:JSTOR]]. You can too. It's free for a limited number of editors per service.

I wrote a new page quickly at Taco Bell two nights ago, but the Wee-Fee dropped during a big save and I lost half my research and half my text that was in the "session". Ugh. [[Sir and Star]]. Bgwhite already found the article and deleted a photo and content. Ugh. The perils of going "live" too soon. LOL. I was experimenting with LDR too and I actually found it a pretty clean way to build an article on the fly. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 05:50, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Wow! This looks so amazing and intensely interesting! I just went to see some Youtube video ; so many interesting, dedicated people... I read the wikipedia article on Doctor [[James Heilman]] . Wow again. Thanks for giving me a fantastic glimpse behind the scenes. I will be interested in WP:Highbeam when I have the necessary one-year-old account and 1000 edits in order to qualify. WP:JSTOR also interests me, but again one needs 1000 edits to the encyclopedia. Perhaps it wont be long before I achieve this number. Hm, too bad about the lost work at Taco Bell; I know how it feels. I guess lots of little saves are better, but when deeply involved, who thinks of saving : ). LDR? Was ist das? ...sounds interesting. Thanks again, as always, for sharing this experience with me. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 06:35, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
If you hit the Highbeam or JSTOR paywall looking for references let me know so I can get the text for you. Based on Jake's recommendation I'm also going to request access to McFarland, Muse, and Ebsco. Also, a gentleman sat next to me at the panel discussion who was from academia.edu, another OA source. I have not visited his site yet. So much time. So little to do. Strike that. Reverse that. (stolen from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory).
LDR= List Defined Reference. In a nutshell: You put all your references with opening and closing ref tags for each reference in a clump at the end of your article in the Reference section below the Reflist tag, name eacj reference, then you only have to use reference names in the body of the article (with a closing forward slash). Keeps the article very tidy and easy to manage the prose and references.
Check out [[Sir and Star]] for a mini implementation (my first), or [[Planned Parenthood 2015 undercover video controversy]] for an extensive use. For Sir and Star I put the references in order of first use and gave them simple names related to the reference itself or the topic I was trying to reference. Then I copied the ref name to my clipboard and pasted it to the first place I wanted to use it and then typed in a space and a forward slash to close the ref ... then copied the ref again if I wanted to paste it more times in the article (that way I had the space and slash in my clipboard). It made referencing quite quick. I held off on running reFILL and Checklinks because I wanted to keep things uncluttered until done. I built my LDR with "bare" references. Easy peezy. I put a line break between them for my convenience (it won't render to the reader).
On the PPUVC article they used the last name of the reference article then put each reference in alphabetical order by the reference name. Don't know how helpful that really is.
They just raised the bar on getting paywall accounts from 500 to 1000. I think before that it was at 250. PS: When it's real quiet I can hear the BART trains squeaking along on the tracks from my house. You didn't even flinch when I said the TB Wee-Fee went down. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:23, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
PS: A couple of links re: LDR: [[Help:Footnotes#List-defined references]] and [[Help:List-defined references]]
@Checkingfax: Thanks for the Highbeam or JSTOR offer, which I will certainly avail myself of.
Hm, you seem to have so many interesting things going on over there! I recall the LDR methodology; it impressed me then and even more now. Those are some neat references! I studied the examples you sent. Easy peezy, as you say, and so clean. I also like the simplicity of the the reference names in the body of the article but I too don't see the advantage of the PPUVC article method of alphabetical order by the reference name.
Nice about the BART trains—must be a somewhat nostalgic feeling.
Of course I noticed your Wi-Fi translation. I blinked a few times at first and got a bit confused as I am want to do. After all, how could you say Wee-Fee in SF? But then I realized you were pulling my leg; ...gave me a good chuckle : ). ...I'll get back soon. very best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 11:42, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
I can see now that the LDR system moves the clutter of blocks of refs down to a neat single block at the bottom of the article. The problem is: not too many editors would know how to maintain its pristineness. If other editors place refs inline they will still render down in the reflist that the readers see. With PPUVC there is no way for a new editor to know they're supposed to use LDR unless they scroll way down to read the hidden LDR comments. The editor that launched the PPUVC page and a couple of other Nanny editors pull any inline refs down in to the list and just leave the named ref in their place. It's more tedious to parse them out once they're inline then it is to make them LDR in the first place. Since the article was launched LDR then that's the citation style we're supposed to follow from then on. We're not supposed to change it to inline. Same for inline: If the article is launched inline, we're supposed to keep it inline going forward. Same thing for citation style: If templates are used, then others should use templates, however if plain text references are used then that becomes the article style. Same for date format, or British vs. U.S. English —first use dictates what comes after, and we're not supposed to change it all up downstream. It's interesting to me that many of the more official Wikipedia pages use U.K. English.
I signed up for 3 more Wikipedia Library subscriptions. They all have a 500 edit, 6-month, valid-use requirement. One of them actually sends out entire books in two different formats. I believe the books are delivered online —they don't arrive by postman. You have to request the books title by title. And, only five titles per year.
I hope the ladies you invited to pitch in come through. I know they're all busy with other projects and IRL. I notice you're up to 100 reference sources for Michael Laucke. That's amazing. You can reference the radio broadcast. Just try to put as much detail as you can about it. I cited one once and was able to find and list the subject's name (the name of the person being talked about), the topic title name, the segment name (it was part of a series), the station ID, the date, and the name of the broadcast journalist. You can reference posters too without a need to actually scan them. Normally there are copyright issues with posters anyway, so the best you can do is reference the pertinent details. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 19:03, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Taco Bell has good Wee-Fee but they block certain news and other sites using OpenDNS standards. They also won't let me log on to the Wikipedia Commons because it has a funny URL that raises a red flag for securityv—they do it to protect me from a password intercept. Something to do with the way the Commons is now part of the Wikipedia "universal logon" system. LOL. You used to need a separate logon for each Wikipedia sister project. McDonald's has good Wee-Fee with no blocking, but when they close they kick everybody out promptly. Taco Bell lets me stay in the lobby until their drive-through closes.
@Checkingfax:
Hello Checking fax, I wish I could have responded earlier to your kind help; I haven't been able to advance as much as I would like due to the time difference since my return. When I'm free at night, it is still 6 hours ahead, so now it's 4 am. ...guess I need a few more days to adjust. So, back to making some progress. Here are some comments on your recent editing help:
  • The &middot code looked cool, but a bot (Yobot ) came by and "corrected" it, all things end-user being equal
  • I put a question on Yobot's owner about that.
  • Your downcased c in Cite is always appreciated, but when I use a Cite template it uses uppercase
  • My tool downcases them.
  • Thank you for the entry "added categories and alphabetized them"; ...nice touch, to be sure
  • When I scroll the code on a page I do that if I have time. Same for See also, and External links, etc.
  • A High priority on my to-do list is adding missing citations. I would like your opinion and counsel regarding this. The "Early years" section ends on the word "award" which links to the "AAwards, honors and prizes" section, which has 15 references. [[[u|Robvanee]] suggested adding a citation after the word "awards". Is this necessary since it is already linked to a section with 15 references, or should I just add two or three references . It wouldn't be too pretty to add the 15 award references after the word "awards"! What are your thoughts on this. At present, I put two references, as an example, after the word "awards" in the "Early years" section.
  • Put all 15 there and we can make them look like one single ref with the {{refn}} template as a tag wrapper.
I think a good solution for the LDR system would be a little software app, such as the templates we already use for our, admittedly, messier inline Citations. Also further security measures could be implemented perhaps, to have editors adhere to one or the other reference methodology. I fully understand the points you made and of course agree with all of them; makes perfect sense.
  • That would be good if the system inforced the pages ref style.
I'm very happy to see Changedforbetter did get back to me, but her specialty is not biographies. Still, she says she can help with the lead, which is wonderful news!
  • That is wonderful news. I'll bet once she digs in she will go deeper in to the article like I did. I never thought I'd be much help to you.
It was exciting to receive your tip that one can reference a radio broadcast. I found what I needed, albeit in French. So after a small translation, I'll have the needed ref. Thanks so much.
Interesting idea about referencing posters. There are many Laucke posters so I'll look into this. I think it will add color. I don't think this could be construed as promotional since the concerts are long past, so the images would be of historical interest.
  • All you have to do is read the poster, then cite the information on it, and any details you know like when it was printed or who the printer was, etc. Not sure which template to use. Maybe just: {{citation}}
Funny about the "universal logon" system causing security concerns... all my very best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 02:30, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
  • That is weird. Universal Login is a work in progress. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:51, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Posting logged out

Your post on the Teahouse was while you were logged out. I wondered why an IP was pinging me. LOL. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 06:33, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Oops—didnt notice. Indeed, I was working away intensely without noticing that the Wikipedia server kept logging me out—possibly maintenance since my connection has been very stable for weeks now. I guess I posted to several places as an IP. If it happens again and you see 204.48.94.47, you'll know it's me!:) --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 07:33, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Open Access (The Wikipedia Library)

Now that you have six-months and 500+ edits there are several libraries you can apply to. Just add your name to the bottom of the list for each library in the format of the editor before you. Here is the link to the database applications. Then they approve you. Then they send you an email. Then you fill out a Google form. Then they email you a registration code. Then you register. Then you're golden. You have to apply one-by-one. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 09:32, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Thank you so much. I have browsed through some of the offerings and several of these databases will be very interesting to me, to be sure. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 17:06, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
There is one more free source: http://www.academia.edu
I sat next to one of their developers at the SF Wikipedia Open Access panel discussion. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 22:41, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax:
It seems you not only get sunshine every day out there, but all the interesting people as well!
Once again, .. a great hit! I really didn't realize to what extent databases are connected these days. I guess the idea that papers can not talk to each other is catching on. I was with a distinguished lawyer friend today who is responsible for changing the wording of some paragraphs in the Quebec Civil Code; he was known as the "library rat" because years ago he spent so much time, almost every day, physically going to the libraries for legal research. He hasn't been to one in 10 years, ever since he had a computer system set up in his office. ...goes to show. Well, thanks again. The site you sent has lots of interesting music and classical guitar offerings. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 01:55, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
I think lawyers just use their bookshelves for backdrops during photo-ops now; for TV interviews, the newspaper, or company photos for their web site. I wonder if they keep subscribing to the hardbacks? We actually had thunder and lightning, the other day and the local Blog said we were hit by light-ing. LOL. Now and then I email "The Mayor" with typos on the Blog. He's not our real Mayor, he's just the honorary Mayor of about six local towns that his Blog covers. I submitted a photo to him from the Wikipedia Commons yesterday and he published it along with another photo that his former photographer took. It was LBJ landing by helicopter in 1964 for the groundbreaking of BART. I found it when I was doing something for the Laucke article. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 09:30, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: What a coincidence; LBJ was a great lover of all kinds of guitar: classical, flamenco, rock, jazz, acoutic , 10-string, and so on. I read that Valdes-Blain, Laucke's mentor in New York, played often at his ranch, along with the other guitarists of various styles. I think you're right about lawyers and the disappearing books. Well, thunder and such is not snow, and far from 2 or 3 feet of it ...pretty when it first starts to fall though. ...you're still very fortunate the sun god looks down upon you with such a radiant smile :) kind regards, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 09:56, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Template created

Natalie, I was spurred to create my first Template today: [[Template:Spaced en dash space]]

It works similarly to the HTML markup sequence &nbsp;&ndash;&nbsp; i.e. a non-breaking space (which will not line-break and will not collapse together with normal spaces that come before the template), a short dash (known as an en dash), and another non-breaking space (which will not line-break and will not collapse together with words that come after the template).

I created two aliases for it, and four shortcuts: {{snds}}, {{spndsp}}, {{sndashs}}, and {{spndashsp}}. The mnemonics is: s-pace, nd-ash, s-pace. I basically cloned another template: snd.

Click on a blue link and you can see the template and its beta documentation. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:06, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Bravo! I sent you a barnstar here! "Kudos for developing this sore-needed template; ...will also save time and frustration with those annoying automatic carriage returns when inserting – "en dash" and — "em dash". Good work!" best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:25, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
You're too kind. Hey, the next time you're on a Transatlantic flight, [[here]] is some light reading. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 09:17, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Indeed, ...shouldn't take more than a few moments to browse through : ) --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 11:10, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Natalie, I created two more little templates: {{nsmdns}} and {{bolddot}}. Click on those to see their full name, other shortcuts, and function. The upper left actually displays the actual template output and it's so tiny it's easy to miss. I still need to refine the documentation for all three of my creations. smds memenomics is: s-paced md-ash s-pace. bolddot is a no-space bold mid-dot no-space. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 22:08, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Congratulations! The {{bolddot}} looks very interesting. {{nsmdns}} brought up a page doesn't exist. ...nice work, to be sure. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:38, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
You have to click on the blue link then it will take you to Template:Nsmdns
It's in "Template space" not "Article space"
Or, you can put Template:Nsmdns in your URL after title= or after wiki/ and hit the enter key.
I just clicked on the nsmdns blue link on your page above this message and it fired to the right page. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:35, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Génie de la langue

With reference to our recent "introduction" over at Checkingfax's Talk page, I also welcome you to Wikipedia. I'd chat with you in French, but it's a bit frowned upon here as in theory everyone should have access to what we're saying including monolinguals. Even so, talk page rules are more lax than those for articles so it's doubtful anyone would really complain. But feel free to talk to me all you want in French on my French talk page (or even here as I see you're also deutschsprachig :-) ). Glad you enjoyed Sapir-Whorf, it's an interesting theory which has stirred up a lot of controversy over the years (and still does); just one aspect of multilingualism. Et bonne continuation! Mathglot (talk) 00:55, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

@Mathglot and Checkingfax: Hi Mathglot, Nice to hear from you. Yes, the Sapir-Whorf article was very intriguing indeed. I am translating the following quote and was wondering if you like the English version I created. I am still unsatisfied with how I translated "par qui le charisme arrive". I sort of took a shortcut, but perhaps it's the best solution.
Original:
Tremblay, Régis (28 October 1990). "Michael Laucke : jouer pour faire aimer la guitare". Le Soleil (Quebec). Il joue comme par reflexe, comme il respire. Plus qu'un virtuose, Michael Laucke est un talent pur, par qui le charisme arrive! ...irresistible, ce Michael Laucke.
English translation:
(Michael Laucke makes one fall in love with the guitar.)
(More than a virtuoso, charismatic Michael Laucke is a pure talent! For him playing is a reflex, just like breathing... irresistible Michael Laucke.)
Tous mes meilleurs vœux, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 11:21, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
You pinged Checkinggax. LOL. The other day you pinged Checking. Good thing I have a watchlist. LOL. Sometimes you do not ping me at all . LOL. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 11:54, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Oops, fatigue you know : ) ...glad you could find it anyway. I guess you are notified whether I write user:Checkingfax, Checkingfax OR by pinging? --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 12:17, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi Natalie, I think your version is fine. Here's my attempt:
Michael Laucke: spreading his love for the guitar. Le Soleil (Quebec). Playing by instinct, like breathing. More than a virtuoso, Michael is a pure talent who embodies charisma ...irresistible, that Michael Laucke.
In translation, I strive for an end result which appears to not have been translated, but written in the target language. This isn't always possible, but it's my goal. This may make my translations less literal, but (hopefully) more natural. Translation is inevitably a tradeoff, traduttore, trditore as they say, and that's my tradeoff. Mathglot (talk) 01:03, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
@Mathglot and Checkingfax:
Hi User:Mathglot
I welcome the good suggestions you made for the little quote I needed. The problem I was having is being too close and having seen my own translation too often. I find that I prefer to have just the original language in front of me, because once I see a translation it lodges in my mind and I have a hard time to change the structure. So thank you for giving me a fresh view. I'll give it some thought. I think I might use your full translation; it flows well and feels more native English than mine.
Indeed, I feel the same way about translation. Ideally, one should have the 'translated to' language read as if it were written in that language; one should not feel it is translated. Here in French Canada (Quebec), there are a great number of people that have two mother tongues and have no accent in either. I myself have a slight accent in English. But my situation is a little bit unusual in that I have several different cultural influences, so some people tell me that I have an accent in every language! I like to say that not having an accent doesn't exist.
There is the famous book here in Québec by Vinet and Darbelnet, and it is considered the Bible of translation. How it came about is quite funny. Two Frenchmen arrived here and were quite struck by the fact that the signs everywhere were in English and French, but sometimes awkwardly translated. One sign just outside of Montreal in one of the farms was translated in a very humorous way. In English it said "Trespassers will be prosecuted". So in French they translated it as "Les trépasseurs, seront persécutés!" (For Checkingfax, "Those who go to the other side, will be persecuted!"). So that got a lot of laughs and Vinet and Darbelnet then decided to write their famous book on translation which became widely studied.
There's also a very funny Spanish language story, and I see you know Spanish as well. It concerns the discovery of Canada. So when the first conquistadores (conquerors) came here from Spain, they arrived in Canada in the middle of winter. All they saw was blankets of white snow. When they returned they were asked what they saw over there, on the other side of the ocean. They replied "Aca Nada!" ("There's nothing there!"), hence the origin of the word Canada (Aca-nada). This story was told to me by my Spanish literature teacher, but I don't think it's true. Nevertheless, it is funny.
So there you have some of my favorite language jokes.
very best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 07:15, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi Nathalie, and thanks for the jokes! There are entire websites out there about fractured English in combination with other languages, funny signs, menus, and so on.
I envy you your bilingual upbringing. Perhaps you know François Grosjean's "Life With Two Languages" ("Parler plusieurs langues : Le monde des bilingues") or Raymonde Carroll's "Evidences Invisibles. Américains et Français au quotidien" ("Cultural Misunderstandings - The French-American Experience") -- each published in both languages.
I assume the translation book you mentioned must be Stylistique comparée du francais et de l'anglais : methode de traduction, which seems to go back to 1958 with plenty of updates since? By any chance, have you seen any of the older editions? The newest ones are selling at Amazon for over USD $100, but there are a few 1972 editions for around $20; would I be missing a lot by getting the older one, do you think? Mathglot (talk)
@Mathglot and Checkingfax:
Hi User:Mathglot Yes, that is the book, by J-P Vinay; Jean Darbelnet. The edition I have is very old indeed, so I don't know what the upgrades have to offer. I guess it can only be better. Thanks for the information on the books by François Grosjean and Raymonde Carroll; I wasn't aware of them and will order them. They look fascinating. Btw, I will be translating the article on Michael Laucke into at least French and Spanish when it gets somewhat more stable. Most of the hard work is done, that is, all the research into references, deciding sections and so forth. Thanks again for the book information; they look really interesting. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:14, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Mathglot, I noticed you used the old typewriter trick to type two hyphens for an emdash or such. Try out my new easy to remember template: {{nsmdns}} (stands for nospace/mdash/nospace}}. If you're doing a view source, leave out the tlx| part. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:44, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
As far as getting the Laucke article more stable, you could consider getting more eyeballs on it by other editors, by putting up an announcement about it on some WikiProjects like WikiProject Canada, Canada noticeboard, Canadian music, Guitarists, WP:MUSICIAN or others of your choice (see directory) and asking for review or collaboration by other interested editors. Mathglot (talk) 08:46, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Helpful templates for citing book pages, front covers, etc.

Natalie, for citations here are two templates that might help you: {{rp}}, {{sfn}}. I did not create them. LOL. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 22:18, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: ...beautiful templates! For page references in a book, I have been using the (user-friendly) Citation dialogue, opening up 87 extra fields, and scrolling down to find the Page Number field. So this way is obviously quicker! Sometimes you want to go hands-on, as these templates allow, instead of user-friendly... Thanks again. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:44, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Technical Questions

@Checkingfax:

  1. The ubiquitous "Difference between revisions..." page mentions page numbers. Is there a quick way to access the exact line numbers which are mentioned? i.e. how can I find line 346 for example.
  2. Now that I have a javascript page, how can I find other javascripts to add to my available tools?
  3. How does one report a bot that keeps making a mistake which I have to correct. Would that be in Village pump?
  4. I looked at the "gallery". Where can I find more instructions on how to implement its use?
  5. The user clicks a ref and then click a link in the ref to a photo. The photo is in Commons. Sometimes it comes up in a nice gallery display and sometimes it comes up in the Commons page, with all the excess baggage behind. What determines how it displays? How do I make all photos come up in an attractive display?

Many thanks as always for your kind help! --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:22, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

  1. I look for a few words very near to what I want to change then do a "find" for those few words. My advanced text editor might have line numbers. There's one you can enable in Gadgets, or there's a few in the Javascript gallery (see below).
  2. Believe it or not, when you go to the "edit" window for your .js or .css page there is a link to a Javacript gallery. But, here it is. When you go to your .js or .css page you won't see the link to the gallery until you actually click on the "edit" button.
    1. Turns out the .css page has the above link on it which is for "skins". Here is the gallery of Userscripts.
      1. When you find a script that looks interesting, click on the superscripted reference number in brackets and it will jump you down to an install code and to a link to your .js page.
      2. After you install a few scripts "purge" your cache with that new tab link you have and then test your scripts, as if you get too far ahead of yourself sometimes one script will "break" all the others then you have to rem them out and bring them back one by one to find the culprit.
      3. /* This is the code to rem out a long block of text */
      4. // This is the code to rem out a single line of code
      5. Some of the goodies take a few seconds to fire up even after a purge
      6. To play it safe I always use this kind of rem nomenclature: /* Remark here */
      7. I use a rem line to label each block of Javascript so I can keep them straight. Check out my .js page here: User:Checkingfax/common.js
  3. Click on the username link for the Bot when you look at Page history and that will take you to the Bot's page, which will have a link to the Bot owner's Talk page. Do not leave messages on the Bot's Talk page: Waste of time.
  4. I think you just do it like this: {{gallery|[[File:124.jpg]] [[File:345.jpg]] [[File:654.jpg]]}} or maybe: <gallery>[[File:124.jpg]] [[File:345.jpg]] [[File:654.jpg]]</gallery>. And, or course you can add alignment values (left, center, or right), thumb, alt=, caption, etc. using pipes between them.
  5. You could direct them to the wiki/Michael_Laucke page on the Commons which would bring them to a full gallery of Laucke's images then they could browse for the appropriate one. wiki/Category:Michael_Laucke is not as pretty. Sounds like you're sending them to the file source? I hope this helps. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 09:10, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Overthanking

Dear Natalie.Desautels: I know that you mean well by it, but please stop sending me "thank" notifications every time I make an edit to a page in which you are interested. I never use this "behind the scenes" feature of Wikipedia, because others can't see it and I prefer open communication. However, that's just my opinion; others like to be "thanked". I have no way of telling if you are doing this after every edit that anybody makes to the Michael Laucke article, but if so, it gives the impression that you regard it as your own page. After all, the editors aren't editing the page for your benefit, but to improve the content and integrity of the encyclopedia. Occasional use after article edits which you find particularly appropriate or talk page edits you find personally helpful is more acceptable, although in those cases I personally prefer to thank the editor openly on a talk page so that others can read it. Sometimes I edit several dozen pages in one day; if I received thank notifications after every edit I would never be able to find important notifications mixed in with them. Sorry to be cranky - I'm just not "thanky". —Anne Delong (talk) 12:55, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax:

Dear @Anne Delong:,
I totally agree; thanks. I see how "overthanking" can be annoying. 'Occasional use' is a good idea. I did think it was the correct protocol but, ...definitely not the way to go. And I can also use the time for more constructive endeavors. So I do appreciate; ...not cranky at all, but ...helpful. ...can't know unless one speaks up, and you did.
My goal is to simply contribute to the whole, the great idea that is Wikipedia; I have no interest in 'owning' the article, even if it was possible. ...kind of defeats the purpose...

PS. Thanks also for the good faith in knowing I mean well; I try very hard; that is my nature. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 14:54, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Natalie, please continue to thank me for any edits you approve of. This is like an SMS to me so you don't have to take the time to write out a blurb critiquing each edit. If you don't agree with the edit, don't thank me. Thank you's come up on the notification as a "thank you" so it's pretty obvious they're not a message that has to be opened and read if I choose not to take the time. I have come across editors that have 100,000 edits and have never sent a single thanks, and that's just rude. There are certain times when your "thank you" count (the ones you've given) are considered when advancing you for a "position" in this great endeavor. I'd normally, if somebody does five edits and they're all good, just thank the best one. But for me, please thank every one you agree with so I get the "SMS" critique of my edit. I appreciate constructive criticism and thanks. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 18:56, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: I'm glad I pinged you on this!. I understand that thanking should be on a user basis. I've taken note of Anne's request and will follow suite. I'm glad to know that you wish to receive notification on each edit since I carefully examine each one and I very much like the way wikipedia lets one collaborate and advance in this constructive way. I will continue our present great collaborative method; in fact, I wish I could send further per edit thanks to you for kindness and patience, generosity, civility, and technical expertise . Alas, we are restricted to but one ; so when I agree, which I notice is almost all the time, I will take the pleasure to send that little SMS. For @Anne Delong:, I'll naturally honor her polite request for 'Occasional use'. Thanks again. Btw, I found your recent edits very astute, if that's the right English word; small, but helpful in flow, readability, and keeping it in real time and less wordy; it's a real pleasure. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 22:29, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi, Natalie (with cc to Sainsf). I notice that Anne has not continued to edit the ML article. She is a very talented lady. Maybe too busy? I was recently polled about the thank-you system and I told the developers that it would be neat if we could batch-thank editors: i.e.- if they did 15 edits in a row, we could checkbox the ones we appreciate, and then the receiving editor would get one thank you saying that they were being thanked for 12 edits. This would imply that 12 of 15 edits were worthy of thanks. Sometimes when an editor does 10 edits in a row there is one that I do not see as helpful, or maybe it was a typo, and I want to send thanks for the 9 helpful edits, but I do not want to clog up their notification badges/system with 9 aye notifications. Hopefully y'all can participate in the notification system improvement poll too. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 17:53, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi Checkingfax, (with cc to Sainsf)...love the checkbox idea and would love to participate in the notification system --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 18:05, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Some falafel for you!

The Michael Laucke article, IMHO is looking very solid and you should be proud of all your hard work. Check out the Talk page at the very top. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:32, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: That's very kind of you . On top of it, I do like falafel! Merci! --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 09:12, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

New Commons category

As you branch out to other authors I thought you would need a new category on the Commons to keep track of them all so I created: Category:Natalie Desautels

Later you can create a "gallery" page too.

You can add all the Laucke files to the new category and going forward you can always add new files to it also. You can add them using HotCat or if you're sure about a category name you can always use the edit-source window too. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 00:02, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Gracias una vez más por su amable ayuda! Es muy bueno - recibir la información correcta en el momento oportuno! Por otra parte, esto será muy útil cuando, como usted dice, me concentro en otros autores. Gracias de nuevo. (I know you study Spanish in the U.S., so I took a chance ) --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 05:58, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Roger that. I don't mean to pull you in too many directions. By the way: I'm surprised Valdes-Blain does not have a WP page. And, in Leyenda isn't that a flute playing too? I don't see the flute getting any credits. I added the media you uploaded to the Commons to several more categories. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 06:26, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Perhaps I shall venture to create a page for Valdes-Blain. There seems to be some good support material, although not abundant. I read a funny story where the White House wanted a cast of Segovia's hands but Segovia was getting on in years, was tired, and couldn't make it. So Valdes-Blain posed for the sculpture and the cast at the White House that reads "Segovia" is actually Valdes-Blain's hands.
...Coincidence that you mentioned Leyenda ; I was just working on this for the style section and also a sub-section on Eric Satie ("the world's first hippie") for the transcription sub-section. I am working in the sandbox so as not to disturb.
..wondering if you are aware of a tool that adds a left sidebar entry called "Page size" (or were you the one who showed it to me?) I find it excellent! . It calculates the true page size. i.e. the article's Prose size (text only) is only 15 kB (2447 words) "readable prose size". Of course this doesn't count tables, images, and so on. The Prose size including all HTML code is 29 kB. ...so not too top heavy.
hasta pronto, à bientôt, Auf Wiedersehen --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 09:56, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
I showed you the User Script library which probably had the page size gadget in it. I am aware of estimators. Some that tell you total size, others that report prose size only.
Funny about Valdes-Blain's hands.
I just got scolded for some of my work on wikidata. It is very tedious and thankless. I'll check in to get the fine points. I had an open question posted on wikidata IRC and instead of answering me someone went and narc'd me. SamWalton9 answered me on IRC once and in a timely manner plus he was the only one signed in. Today about 50 folks signed in but nobody answered me. Sam was on wikipedia IRC channel; this one is wikidata IRC channel. It's a cool way to communicate if people would respond. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 10:21, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax:Hm, too bad. I noticed someone addressed you with "Hey". I'm not sure about English, but it's considered rude in French. A nice Dear so and so is always welcome. I've been reading up on Wikipedia Civility and Wikipedia:Kindness Campaign ...possibly not the most visited pages . I noticed Jr8825 said "Thanks for your hard work on cleaning up articles" so that's appreciative. I guess I'm old fashioned; ...still beleive in things like, let's see, ah, the Buddha ..."What wisdom can you find that is greater than kindness?"
Those chat channels sound interesting, albeit obviously needing of more participation. kind regards, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 13:20, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I just happened to stumble across this discussion and thought I'd add a few thoughts about "Hey". It used to be considered ruder than it is today. I'm pretty sure it is used more today than it used to be. However, it all depends on how you say it. It can express mild protest, as in, "Hey, what did you do that for?" (with "Hey" pronounced as a drawn-out word: Ha-a-a-y.) It can also express a friendly greeting, as in, "Hey, how are you doing?" or "Hey there, how are you doing?" (with "Hey" replacing "Hi", and only used by some speakers, not all). It can also be used to get someone's attention, just a bit more serious in tone (and pronounced more quickly) than in the first example: "Hey, what are you doing? I would say that, today, only the third one could possibly be taken as rude, and only if the person on the receiving end feels it is rude, but generally not.  – Corinne (talk) 03:26, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Friendly Hey meaning Hi Corinne, Thanks for this interesting reflection and for sharing them with me. It's amazing how much one can read into a word through vocal inflection, context, emphasis, and so on. Somehow I found myself pondering the Beatles "Hey Jude" ; I believe this variant could be thought of as a sort of languorous calling out to someone, with the intent of consolation. Natalie.Desautels (talk) 04:09, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
Yes, sounds about right.  – Corinne (talk) 03:23, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Spot on

Natalie, sometimes I forget: When you're on an Editor's Talk page you don't have to Ping them. The Ping is automatic already.

I desperately wanted to learn the guitar as a very young child but my teacher was a purist and insisted that my Mom purchase a Classical guitar but my little fingers could not reach the chords so I quit. I was too embarrassed to insist that he let me switch to a Folk guitar. He is a blind musician gifted in many instruments. He used to come over to our house and play and sing "children's" songs for hours. They were not kiddy songs but they were ones he knew we would enjoy. He even loves to watch movies and knows them all by heart. But I could go on.

I forgot to mention above that I once had the honor to go to the Fantasy Records studio and help a friend lay down a track for his album. We were there for half a day. The equipment was amazing and so was the audio tech. Once they laid down the track the tech had my buddy fix each note, note-by-note, and the tech would look at his screen and marry the new notes to the already laid down track. It still amazes me that my buddy did not have to do the track over and over, just the subpar notes. The tech used his ear to detect the subpar notes then used his gear to find the insertion point and replace them with the good notes. Fantasy also produced movies. I think they produced The English Patient which won an Oscar for Best Film years ago and they produced many other top films. The Executive Producer's name was Saul something. He used his music profits to finance his cinema dreams. I saw him receiving his BP Oscar on TV at the time. Fantasy is/was in Berkeley, California. Update: I just looked it up and Fantasy Records merged with Concord Records which formed as the Concord Music Group and they moved from Concord, Cal to Beverly Hills, California. Concord Records was founded in my city as a namesake. One of our parks is now Dave Brubeck Park because Dave was born here. The Fantasy Records article is very lacking but it is still an interesting historical music industry read. I have been to the "House that Creedence Built". I am not worthy.

Corinne is turning out to be a real gem. I had no idea she was such a music buff. Her edits are so spot-on and her editing engagement style is gentle. I am not worthy. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 02:49, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: ...very interesting indeed! Thanks for filling me in. The Japanese company Suzuki has always made tiny classical guitars for children but not many know about them. Sounds like you had a wonderful teacher and very good-hearted person. The Fantasy Records experience sounds fascinating. I've been in recording studios often, and with software these days, it's crazy what one can create. Brubeck ...wow ..Take FIve is one of my all time favorite albums - - - not only the amazing song but that sax!
Corinee has added so much, I concur. The result of this type of subtle, skilfull work seems simple, but one can stand on one's head to get an angle on it before one realizes (if one ever does) what has to be fixed. One knows it sounds awkward, but one can't fix it. It's so hard to gain that perspective, that when it's actually done and looks so simple, naturally one says "How come I couldn't see that". And chances are, one never would have seen it. So, yes, definitely invaluable ...fascinating, really. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 09:47, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

1111 edits

Dear Natalie, You now have 1111 edits and over 6-months on the clock so you can apply for all the databases you desire over at The Wikipedia Library! Just add your name to the bottom of the list for each database you desire with a hash mark and use their template and wait for the moderator's approval. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:03, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Many thanks! I very much look forward to availing myself of this opportunity...will look into this later today. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 11:34, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
PS. @Checkingfax: ...have asked for JSTOR and newspaperarchive.com. If accepted, I'll go for a few others Thanks again! ...working on French translation offline; 7 pages to re-think and frenchify. I think the Media section should have subsections, whereby I will be able to link more precisely to the subsection anchor from within the body: Classical Guitar, Flamenco guitar, and Atonal music for Guitar. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 12:00, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Natalie, You can insert {{anchor}} tags inline in sections to bring readers to a particular spot in an section. That way you do not have to create a bunch of new subheadings for granulation of the section. The anchor templates are found the same way as sections are using a # appendage to the wikilink. BTW, when you are providing wikilinks to a section or anchor that are on the same page you are wikilinking from you don't have to include the page name too. So ... on the Laucke page:
[[Michael Laucke#Media|Media]] and [[#Media|Media]] will both reach the target, but the 2nd option is less crufty.
Caveats:
  1. Don't name an anchor with the exact name of a heading or visa-versa or the server will puke and only go to the first name it finds.
  2. Anchor nomenclature looks like this: {{anchor|name of anchor}}
Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 00:15, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: ...wonderful tip! I bookmarked your information on {{anchor}} tags . At last I will be able to help the reader save time and get them directly to the right place. I tried several flavors of html, but of course it didn't work. Thanks very much. kind regards, ~ --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Natalie, Actually I was just reading that in certain situations it is better to use an HTML style span id tag then to use the wiki template. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: PS. My Newspaperarchive.com was approved, but I cant see how to actually get access and query the database. When I use my Wikipedia username and password, it doesn't work on the Newspaperarchive.com, neither does registering. ...ayuda, por favor ?
Question: What does {{stack| do?
...working on French translation. I guess one of the drawbacks of having a few mother tongues is that it's hard to make a translation into French sound like an article was written in that language, since the article already makes perfect sense in English. So I have two friends helping me, ...making progress. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
--Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:05, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Natalie, for my databases so far I had to sign up, then wait, then get approved, then get an email with a link to a Google form, then wait for another email with instructions to register. Not sure if it is the same for newspaperarchive.com. Go to the Talkpage and ask editor RHM22.
Good luck! Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:13, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Aha! I am just missing the last step. I'll wait for another email with instructions to register; I already got the email with a link to a Google form. Should be fine; if not, I'll write editor RHM22. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:17, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Natalie, I do not have a full grasp on {{stack}} yet but I wish stack did exactly what I thought it should do Click on the link to see if you can figure it out. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:16, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Wow; great tip! So one can also have "stack begin stack end" and a few other templates to get better control of image positioning. To list multiple arguments one has "stack| float=left/right | clear=true/false" , and so on. ...cool. I'll take the pleasure to study up more on this later today. bonne nuit --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:17, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

anchor templates vs HTML span id tags

Natalie, here is an example of a span id to use in place of a wiki anchor template:
<span id="Promotion and mascot" />

You can even use them in headings (as you can also put anchors right in to headings). Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:22, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Creating Wikidata data records for tracks, albums, pieces, works

Dear Natalie, I was looking up Linda Ronstadt on Wikidata and discovered somebody created individual data records for many of her albums and tracks.

When you get caught up you can do the same for Laucke if you wish. There is a link on the left side of Wikidata labeled "Create a new item". That is what you click on. Be sure to give each item a very short description. I would suggest: "Michael Laucke song" or "Michael Laucke album", etc. I notice many of Ronstadt's data records are unlabeled. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 00:06, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks very much once again, @Checkingfax:! I'll follow this pattern when the time comes. I would first consider the "Flamenco Road" album, as it was on the video charts as no. 1 for 5 (or 6) weeks. I think I can also get rights to upload all songs. Also, there are ample sources such as critical reviews in several countries as well as generous liner notes. Thanks for again steering me in the perfect direction. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:14, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:10, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Deletion of redlinked flamenco guitarists

Dear Natalie, An editor deleted all the redlinked flamenco guitarists here.

Until late September Laucke would have fallen to this mass felling.

Can you restore the notable ones and hang a reference on them until somebody blue links them? Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:31, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

UPDATE: I restored the page, twice, and hung {{citation needed|date=November 2015}} tags on each of the redlinked artists, and I linked one of them to his es: Wiki page for now. Please hang one reliably sourced reference on each artist. Most references are in Spanish which I cannot read too well, or on YouTube, IMDB, AllMusic, etc. which are less accepted as being reliable. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 05:31, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: That dreaded EDIT CONFLICT again! Well, here is what I wrote, for the record, even though some of it is dealt with already. I will get to the link later this evening.
@Checkingfax:. Sure, no problem. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. What sort of reference do you suggest? Is there a sort of "Please create article" template?
Curiously, I was thinking about this Wikipedia problem today. Since I've been less than perfectly functional due to a very heavy cold, I spent time perusing articles in languages other than English, instead of editing and creating stuff. I observed that while English Wikipedia tries very hard to play by the rules, the other languages are much less rigorous; most are not neutral at all, and one very often see artists referred to, in the lead, as "the best in the world", etc. I mention this because, lo and behold, many of the red links you mentioned do in fact have Wikipedia articles, albeit in other languages — they count too .
At first, I was surprised to see many of the most famous names in flamenco without their own article. Then again, musicians are often not good managers of their careers and finding sources is challenging. Before I decided to invest my time in contributing the Laucke article, I had other guitarists in mind, but the resources were too skimpy.
The most astonishing deleted name is Manolo de Huelva, the grand-daddy of them all. Seeing Manolo de Huelva and Enrique de Melchor removed from a list of flamenco guitarists is like having Elvis Presley and the Beatles removed from popular music. Of course, these artists existed way before the web; flamenco itself is actually 500 years old. In a rare interview in Spanish, de Lucia was talking about seeing flamenco manuscripts from the 16th century. Alas, papers cant talk to each other and are so time-consuming to research. Flamenco is really important for the Spanish government and so there are many Institutos de flamencologia (Flamencology institutes), but not online ...ouch, could use up a lot of boot leather .
Meanwhile, I will link about 15 of the red-linked names to their Wikipedia articles in the languages I know. Let me know what template to hang on the others; are temporary links outside Wikipedia permitted in this list?? Btw, I am enjoying User:Tony1/How to improve your writing immensely. best regards, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 06:08, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Dear Natalie, To get up and running quickly you can just use: <ref>http://www.yourreferencenamehere.com</ref> or you can use text format like I did for the one where I added five references already and we can fill them in later with ReFILL, Proveit, or by hand.
If you want to create a stub article, just click on the redlink and it will take you to the edit window and you can start creating. I notified editor Dr. Blofeld who created the list originally. He is now semi-retired after nearly 550,000 edits.
I have heard the other Wikis have a lot of issues. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 06:17, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Dear @Checkingfax: I typed "Presley" incorrectly! ...glad no one has my address . I've already completed about 20 or so flamenco guitarists, but with a normal link, without <nowiki>; is that acceptable? I've bookmarked the List of flamenco guitarists and want to follow up soon on the stubs after my translations of the Laucke article; ...winding up French and have started on Spanish, then German is planned.
550,000 edits! That's astounding! best wishes

Newspaperarchive

Hey Natalie, I tried to send you your login for Newspaperarchive, but the email you entered didn't work - could you please send me an email and I'll forward your login? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikkimaria (talk • contribs) 21:45, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

@Checkingfax and Nikkimaria: Hello @Nikkimaria: My email is ndesautels07@videotron.ca . It should work; I receive email notices all day from Wikipedia at this address. Looking forward to the Newspaperarchive login info. Many thanks! (It seems this page is broken; hope you receive this.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Natalie.Desautels (talk • contribs) 09:03, 3 December 2015‎

Flamenco guitarist minibiographies

I wonder if there is anything here that you might be tempted to add to your todo list? Some of them only really NEED simple translation from Spanish wiki, though I suspect that five minutes of googling might add more sourced info. There's always that ticklish trade off between quality/quantity and the number of hours in the day .....

Anyhow, thanks for thinking about it (if you did...). Success Charles01 (talk) 18:08, 6 December 2015 (UTC)


@Checkingfax and Charles01:

Hello @Charles01: Thank you for this excellent link; ...definitely on my TODO list. All these flamenco artists are noteworthy and merit having something bona fide, not simply redlinked names (with the possiblity of deletion); indeed, some are true masters. I am busy translating an article into French right now; more of a task than expected since the French Wikipedia does not have many of the "bells and whistles" of the English Wikipedia, which has those nice software tools that are so easy to access even with minimal programming skills. I guess one could start with linking these redlinked flamenco guitarists to the Spanish Wikipedia. The links in various languages are far from automatic (oh, would that it were ). I've had to relink many of the 110 references in my present article on Michael Laucke in my French translation, and I see Spanish articles has even fewer obvious software tools, such as reFill. But I found a few tricky ways to use the English software tools in other languages, in some instances. Again, thanks for the tip. Oh, and congratulations for the wonderful accomplishments listed on your user page. best wishes for success in all your endeavors, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:00, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Agustín Carbonell

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Agustín Carbonell, and it appears to include material copied directly from http://www.cyclopaedia.es/wiki/Agustin-Carbonell.

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If substantial content is duplicated and it is not public domain or available under a compatible license, it will be deleted. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material. You may use such publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.) CorenSearchBot (talk) 08:10, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

This bot picked up the original Spanish, now deleted, during the course of my creation of the English article. So this issue is resolved. However, lesson learnt: ...best to work in sandbox before publishing, or put a 'noindex' code on top of page. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 09:12, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Highbeam Research

Hi, Natalie. How is the New Year treating you? Did you ever get a subscription to WP:TWL, WP:Highbeam? I'm having trouble logging in and Highbeam's customer support is not too helpful. Ping me back. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 00:20, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

@Checkingfax:
Hello Checkingfax! What a delight to hear from you directly! All my very best to you for health, happiness, prosperity and ...serenity in the new year and beyond. Indeed, my holiday season was wonderful - - - got to spend quality time with an ever expanding family; ..seems there are more languages every year!
Thank you also for the reminder about database access. I have been using http://newspaperarchive.com/ to good advantage.
Presently, I am planning an article on Tai Chi, translating the flamenco guitarists list, and helping around; articles in French in general seems quite behind the English Wikipedia.
Regarding WP:Highbeam, I have just submitted my request for access. As for the very interesting link you so kindly sent to WP:TWL, I have bookmarked it and preciously put it aside for future use. I'll let you know if I encounter any problems with WP:Highbeam. PS. I am very glad to be a member of Wikipedia; without your tremendous help, I'm not sure if I would have made it! best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 06:02, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Natalie. I am planning to go to the 15 BDay party for WP at the WMF HQ in SF on the 16th. You can join in on YouTube. Here is a local link for newspaperarchive.com too: Wikipedia:Newspaperarchive.com. I think I shall sign up with them. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 06:58, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
@Checkingfax:
Hello Checkingfax! Thanks for the invite and the youTube link! I just signed up and successfully logged on to WP:Highbeam. Let me know if I can be of any help. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 11:40, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Natalie. Highbeam already approved you? That is quick! What is your user experience like when logged in? Can you save searches? Can you view complete articles or only sections? Do you have a nag that says "complete your registration"? Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 23:02, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
@Checkingfax:
Hello Checkingfax. Indeed, if you go to WP:Highbeam under 'Apply or renew your account', you can see that my access was approved about two hours after I made the request. My user login experience was seamless; ...very simple and everything worked as expected. One can view full and complete articles without requests to pay if you want to see more. ...no "complete your registration" nag—it already seems complete. ...very nice Save Searches feature where you can create a folder system for searches; one can retrieve searches very easily. I find this an excellent resource; ...no complaints at all and of course thank you for the great tip. If I can help in any way, please advise and it will be my great pleasure. PS. The great composer/conductor Pierre Boulez just died at 90. His English Wikipedia page is not as advanced as the French one.; ...hope to have time to dig in. Lots to do on the List of flamenco guitarists best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:03, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Natalie. I switched to a faster computer over the holiday and when I tried to log on to Highbeam it took my login and password but then once logged in it said I had to complete my registration; when I clicked on that link it wanted $29.95. Now I have none of the functionality you mentioned. I can still find articles but only a snippet. I contacted their Customer Support and a manager emailed me back and said they have never offered any of that functionality, paid or not. Pfffffffttt. Thank you for letting me know I was not hallucinating. Sad news about Boulez. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 09:38, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
UPDATE: I went over to Pierre Boulez and made five cleanup edits and expanded the article from 48,000b to 49,000b. I also left an edit note to update the consensus on music person infoboxes (there is no consensus rule for or against their inclusion). I also added what felt like a ton of helpful wikilinks. I even found a typo. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 10:52, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
nice work on Pierre Boulez! I did some tests on WP:Highbeam and logged in without username / password. I got the same results you described; it asked for payment to see more, registration nag, and so on. ...seems your username / password may not be working properly. Would ge good if you could re-register, if the program allows it (unlikely?). By the way, the absolutely great French actor Michel Galabru died at 93 after an amazing career of 250 films and 80 live theatre shows; the man had so much energy that he sometimes took on 7 new films a year! French Wikipedia on him is substantial; English not so much. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 17:30, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Wow, Natalie. Galabru's article is only a Stub at 7000b and I knocked it down by 250b . Thank you for the report on Highbeam. I will report my situation on the Talk page over there. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 05:10, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello Checkingfax. Thanks for looking at Galabru's article. The French article on him is quite large; I hope to find time to translate some of it into English. ...hope WP:Highbeam issue isn't too hard to resolve as it should; this service is proving useful for my research on a Tai Chi article I want to do. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:46, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Tai Chi article suggestion

Hi, Natalie. For the Tai Chi article try LDR. I think you will like how easy it makes things to construct an article without all the klutziness of inline full citations. Let me know if I can assist. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:52, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi again Checkingfax. Indeed, LDR will be a pleasure to again implement, with the resulting clarity and 'non-klutziness'. I will keep you abreast of course, and take the pleasure to avail myself again of your kind offer to help. I want to work in the sandbox this time, and include a noindex code on the top of the page, if I can find that code again : ) Do you like this code --- <noindex>Don't index this text.</noindex> ---
best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 09:24, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
Dear Natalie. Here is the code to use: {{NOINDEX|visible=yes}}
visible=yes just means that the message shows up at the top of the page so other editors can see that the page is not indexed.
Don't copy the template from the source code or you will get extra curly braces. There should only be a total of four curlies and no tlx. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 11:32, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi Checkingfax, Thanks for the tip! I found this same code for my French version as well; for the record it's {{Ne pas indexer}}. ...finally getting used to navigating all the many Wikipedia templates . I just emailed Highbeam to ask if I can access articles in other languages. very best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 06:37, 9 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi Checkingfax I have started the article on Joey Bond Tai Chi Master in my sandbox and I've used the code {{NOINDEX|visible=yes}} you kindly sent me to good advantage. All references will be made LDR when finished. I put aside quite a few sources, so I think it will be a noteworthy article with good sources. best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 00:02, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Natalie. I would start right off using WP:LDR. It makes editing the prose as you advance much simpler. Keep the ref names short and intuitive for repeat use. Avoid special spacing or characters even if allowed. Two words is usually enough to disambiguate the reference from others. Even one word can be plenty. It is a good habit to put the names in double quotes even though this is only required for names with spaces in them. If you feel strongly about doing LDR later, make it easy on yourself by naming all refs as you go along. If it is a book you use page numbers to disambiguate one from another. Or, if the ref is not used repeatedly you can use the {{sfn}} template or such to keep things tidy. Be sure to use high quality reliable sources or your article will get nominated for deletion. I am glad that the article name Joey Bond is still available and that you will not have to disambiguate the article name with a parenthetical or expansion. I unremmed your Reference code so your current refs will appear in the correct section instead of appearing at the bottom of the page. I added an External links section for future use. Looks exciting. PS: Be careful about WP:SPA and WP:COI. Also, that image looks a lot like a screenshot of a PBS program intro, or a scan of a VHS cover art. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 01:27, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi Checkingfax Thanks so much once again for the great feedback. I will heed your kind advice on LDR, high quality reliable sources, Reference code, External links section and WP:SPA and WP:COI. The images have an "all rights waived" cerification derived from Flickr and there should not be any copyright problems. best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:51, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi Checkingfax ...got in a good 10 hour run and I think the LDR is looking nice and neat, as it should, following your kind example. ...drop by the sandbox when you have a moment. my very best, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 13:37, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Natalie. I hope the Peanut Gallery approves‍—‌and I am sure they will. You can use spaces in named refs as long as the name is wrapped in double quotes. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 13:44, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi Checkingfax I didnt know about the Peanut Gallery in English! Gee, Wikipedia has it all! Thanks; ...entertaining --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 06:55, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi Checkingfax. Thanks! I'd like to consider moving it to an article soon. I know about spaces but I come from a programming time when spaces were unspeakable; so, you know, old habits ...feel more comfortable with the underscore. Perhaps I'll gradually try to break the habit best, always, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 14:04, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Natalie. I think in DOS we were limited to 5 on the left and 3 on the right of the dot, and no spaces, so yes, we had to use underscores, but when Windows cam along all of a sudden we could use prose for names! The problem with underscores is they can get lost in underlining, etc. I say if we have the freedom to use spaces, take it! I used to be creative with my three on the right in DOS and use: .INV for invoice, .STA for statement, .LET for letter, etc. Instead of just using .TXT for text. In Windows in a DOS prompt you still have to put quotes around long file names. Ugh. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 14:27, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi Checkingfax. ..a bit of history there, to be sure. ...interesting about your creative use of the three to the right of the dot—I never thought of that! When Windows 98 declared that you could have 256 characters, people were surprised that certain transfers said the fie name was too long. That was becuase Windows counted the entire pathway to the named file; ...7 folders deep didnt leave too many characters for the actual file name. ...that was the rumour. hm... I think I will heed your kind advice and change all the underscores to spaces ...can probably do it quickly with a carefull find/replace. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 07:01, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Natalie. What tool do you use for find/replace? I use WP:wikEd that can be turned on in your user Preferences. wikEd also allows regex (regular expression) search/replace, A→Z alphabetization, and many other helpful tools. I used to alphabetize categories by eye but now I just highlight and block of them and click on A→Z and it is done like magic. There is a help link in the edit source window that links to a help topic germane to wikEd. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 07:33, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi Checkingfax WP:wikEd is what I use as well; I also like the associate tools. I didn't know about the alphabetizing of categories though. Thanks again! In fact, I'm not sure if you weren't the one who turned me onto WP:wikEd, or I found it myself ....knew about the help feature though. By the way, I changed all the reference underscores to spaces. Yep, looks better ...out with the old, I guess best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:21, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi Checkingfax. Pursuing our discussion about wikEd, I found a function that "Replaces ALL"; you are probably aware of it but I thought it good to mention just in case. It's to the left of the text input box (second one down) in the Edit section; there you will see "Replace Previous Match" when you hover over it, and to the left of that you will see "Replace all matches in whole text or selection'. ...glad to share it with you if not in your arsenal of tools. best wishes, Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 23:06, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Dummy edits

Dear Natalie. I wrote today's Tip-of-the-day (there are 366 of them): Wikipedia:Tip of the day. Permalink: Wikipedia:Tip of the day/January 8. It is based on your use. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 12:55, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi again Checkingfax. ...very interesting; many thanks for the information, keeping me in the loop. ...WP:dummy edit duly noted; I will include the correct code from now on (always left out the brackets)... best, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 06:43, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

YouTube live stream Saturday at 1PM PST

Hi, Natalie. Here is the URL to the live stream at 1 PM Saturday: [2] Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 07:15, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello @Checkingfax:, Many Thanks. I will be in small town called Saint-Hyacinthe, Quebec outside of Montreal tomorrow; the Internet connections are often unstable there. I'll try to get out to a Starbucks or Internet cafe with Wifi. Thanks again for the reminder; ...would love to attend. best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 07:22, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Natalie. I went to SF tonight too for a 2-hr WP party. They had Champagne, cake, and 15 interactive data visualizations set up to crunch the Wikipedia database up and present it in different visually appealing ways‍—‌2 were on large projected screens and 12 were on large tabletop LCD monitors. All were self-guided using Macs so the screen could be manipulated and different data points highlighted for display.
I met Pete Forsyth again (he will be a moderator on Saturday), Hilary a new Executive Assistant on contract, Jaime the new CFO (brand new), Lila the WMF Executive Director (I updated the photo on her WP the other day) LOL, a developer from Mozilla, a developer from The Internet Archive (AKA: The Wayback Machine), SMcCandlish (a editor active with MoS and other detail work)‍—‌by the way he has created a lot of pages and templates for cue sports including a template method of building glossaries which started with cue sports but has been adopted for other glossaries, a couple of WMF ladies, and Zack who invited me. They reached their invite capacity of 100. They issued me two invites for some reason so that was wasting one. The cake was a ruby red which scared me but I indulged anyway. I did not want to walk around with a beet red tongue. Have fun in S-H. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 07:40, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello @Checkingfax: Wow! ...does that ever sound fantastic! ...hope to get out there some day. ...happy to hear all this ...I guess you heard that the genius impressario René Angélil passed away yesterday. He brought Celine Dion to world-wide fame. I always thought of him as talented as Colonel Parker of Brian Epstein. Major papers here have him on the front page saying "A giant has died". I'd love to find time to add to his page in at least English and French. best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:40, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Dear Natalie, Sadly I think Celine's 52-year old brother just died of multiple cancers too. (no cheers). {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 09:52, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: I know... She has 14 brothers and sisters and many work with her. It's all over the news not only here, but all over Canada; flags a half-mast in Ottawa for her late husband. Here is an article in English about her brother - http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/celine-dions-brother-dies-from-cancer. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:00, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for January 17

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Gino D'Auri, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Dubbing and Drone. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 09:06, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Cut and Paste without attribution

 Done

Hi. You appear to have copied material from User:Meridian108/Gino D'Auri into the article Gino D'Auri without attribution. Wikipedia's licensing requires that attribution be maintained. For future reference, please have a look at Wikipedia:Copying text from other sources. Regards. -- Whpq (talk) 18:40, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

@Checkingfax:
Hello User:Whpq. Thank you so much for your kind reminder, to wit, that Wikipedia's licensing requires attribution be maintained when copying from one Wikipedia article to another. This has now been completed by way of a Dummy edit on Gino D'Auri: Revision history. As well, I placed a note on the talk page of the source article here Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Meridian108/Gino D'Auri indicating that copying has occurred.
I trust that everything is now in accordance with Wikipedia protocol as outlined in the section "copying from one Wikipedia article to another"
Thank you once again for your kind help and tip. This is actually my first experience copying from one Wikipedia article to another. I have concentrated on either creating articles from scratch, or, as a proud Polyglot (multilingual person), translating articles into a few languages. best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 06:07, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi Natalie. I could not find where you posted the filled out {{copied}} template so I filled one out then posted it in three places. Normally you can only post it in two places (the talk pages) but since the original article was in userspace I was able to also post the filled out template on the original article page. The template is a tad tedious to fill out. Filled out some edit summaries during that process too, so I think we are totally covered now on attribution unless some yahoo deletes the user subpage Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 12:45, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

 Done

!Vote needed

 Done

Dear Natalie, I am heading out for a 2-day split-shift event to memorialize my friends late father, but before heading out I wanted to alert you to this: Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Meridian108/Gino D'Auri. Can you jump in with a comment and !Vote? The important thing is to put your !Vote in bold with six apostrophes and then add a short reason to support your !Vote. It is not a poll; it is a discussion. I many not be phrasing this properly because I do not participate in enough of these to know the correct nomenclature or lingo. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 00:36, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Dear @Checkingfax: Many thanks. ...will take the pleasure to attend to this and follow through with proper Wikipedi protocol ...busy right now, but ...later this evening. wishing you fortitude over the next 2 days. (...Sent from smart phone) Best wishes Natalie.Desautels (talk) 01:28, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
UPDATE: I did not realize you initiated this. It was confusing and I did not see your name in the jumble of the MfD. We need to carefully attribute the edits you made on the article to attribute them back to that userpage. Let's bat it around before you post an attribution dummy edit on the main article. I am not experienced at this but we can sort it out. Probably should list the Diff numbers of each edit you made on the main article, plus provide one wikilink in the dummy edit back to the article itself. Might take a couple of dummy edits due to space constraints in edit summaries. No hurry on this. Enjoy your holiday. Please make a draft dummy edit here. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 01:35, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Dear Natalie, You need to change your vote to Keep at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Meridian108/Gino D'Auri because the old userspace must be kept to retain the edit history. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 10:23, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Dear @Checkingfax: Thanks for tip. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 12:04, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

 Done

Tai Chi article completed

 Done

Hi @Checkingfax:,

I hope you are well. I'm happy with the Tai Chi article in my sandbox here. I'd like to move it into the mainspace and have access to the 'Move Page' function under the Page menu, unlike last time; I guess I have enough user edits now. When you get back, would like to move it since you have much more experience and in case something goes awry, or should I have a go at it. I would also like to translate it into at least French and Spanish. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:19, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Greetings Natalie. OK, I moved it and you are still attributed as the original author of the page. I did some edits too. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 09:17, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Greetings @Checkingfax:, Thanks so much for the push, and the wonderful edits! ...excellent suggestions ; I see a few typos, grammar, and such slipped by me. best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 09:42, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

 Done

@Checkingfax: --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 13:02, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Re-setting a botched ping

Hi, Natalie. If you botch a ping not only do you have to set the ping but you also have to change your signature a bit, like change the time stamp in your signature by one minute. Without doing that, the ping won't go out again. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 12:48, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

@Checkingfax: Many thanks! Best, always, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 13:03, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Joey Bond

Hi @Checkingfax:. ...just got back home. ...lots happening at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joey Bond. ...seems like Biruitorul (which means "Victorious") instigated quite a discussion. 'May you live in interesting times' says the double-edged Chinese proverb

Do you find that there are so many rules that one can make a case in either direction? I found this one interesting, which you probably know: Wikipedia:Ignore all rules. Oh, and thanks for your amazingly limpid text on the Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests page Wikipedia:Editor_assistance/Requests#Seeking_information_on_where_to_report_abusive.2C_uncivil_and_unproductive_behavior . It was so to-the-point! Oh, and thank you for defending my small work for Wikiepdia. I was touched; I'm tryin'.

I think it was a good idea for user:Jbeaton5 to copy the main points from your excellent text on Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests to the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joey Bond page. user:Jbeaton5 obviously visited my View History page and pointed out one of the the incredibly sparse articles on List of flamenco guitarists—one sentence and no references and there it stands! I want to spend more time there. The artists are mostly notable; it's hard to find references in English but there's lots in Spanish waiting to be translated. Speaking of translation, I want to create that Joey Bond article in at least French as well. If it is deleted, I guess I can improve on it in Draft, or contest the decision and try to get it undeleted, amongst other options. best regards, Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 09:55, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

PS. The English and French articles on Michael Laucke are up to almost 10,000 visitors in 90 days in English (60 days French). best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:07, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi Natalie. I am a bit queasy about Jbeaton5 (talk · contribs) cross-posting the Editor assistance thread gist to the AfD thread; especially after reviewing Jbeaton5's editing history; there really is none and it is S.P.A.; rats. Also our comments could be seen as attacking the AfD nominator. We should stay on topic in an Afd, and the topic is the article, not the nominator. Check out Jbeaton5's user contribution inventory by clicking on the (contribs) link above.
Be sure to copy the plain text of the Joey Bond article to a text file on your computer so if the article gets deleted, you have a backup copy. When an article is deleted on WP, it is gone, gone, gone. Vaporized. No way to view the source code or the page history. It is all gone. It happens abruptly. Poof.
Not sure why Biruitorul (talk · contribs), a self admitted Romanian is so fixated on nominating Romanian articles for discussion (AfD). I hope you enjoyed your holiday to that lovely hamlet. Congrats on the 10K! Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 02:56, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
Hi @Checkingfax:. Thanks. Yes, I checked out Jbeaton5's edit history and he is a complete newbie. I guess he can voice his opinion though... It would have been much better if he asked first about cross-posting the Editor assistance thread; I'll write and make him aware of this.
I always take full code copies very frequently; that's what happens when you come from an age of regular computer crashes and BSOD scenarios. When the admins make their decision, it will be knowledge gained whichever way the coin falls. The secret to not being disappointed is to not expect, and to enjoy the adventure and learn; always better to be happy than right, n'est-ce pas? I already learned a lot; the editors who left "votes" have astounding backgrounds—one loaded with barnstars, another Wikipedia editor of the week, awards galore and incredibly interesting people—amazing!
Yes, I had a splendid time in my little village! Thank you so much for remembering. And thanks for the congrats for the 10K mark; nice to see people like it. Btw, it's the first time I've seen noping2; is this a new code? PS. ...lots of translations in French and Spanish I am working on, perhaps German too but I'll not delve into my weaker languages. best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:35, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
Dear Natalie, I was double-checking the parameters and nomenclature for {{noping}} when I found {{noping2}} in the See also section of noping so I went and checked out noping2 to see what it was all about. The noping family of templates links a username without pinging them, making it easy to get to their User page if needed, and noping2 also links to their Talk page and to their Contributions which can also be handy in certain situations. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:42, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Very interesting! Thanks for passing this along. I'm eager to experiment with this in a bit. best wishes, Natalie, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:54, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Hello user:Jbeaton5. Many thanks for your participation in the debate. I did also want to make you aware of the concern mentioned above, that is, one should always ask the original editors first before cross-posting from one area to another; a question of confidentiality. In this case it was the Editor assistance thread you copied to the AfD thread. Thanks so much for your patience and understanding. Wikipedia is an endlessly fascinating learning experience ... best regards, Natalie, --Natalie.Desautels (talk)

Dear Natalie. Robert McClenon, if I am not mistaken, does a lot of Articles for creation (AfC) reviews and his reviews are very strict. To have his support is a feather in your cap I believe. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 09:18, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

My talk page

Did you accidentally edit my talk page logged out? If so, I will delete your IP address. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:14, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Robert McClenon Yes, I did make that mistake, having forgotten to log in. Kindly delete my IP address. Many thanks! Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:36, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

"Articles for deletion" discussion on the Joey Bond article has been relisted!

@Checkingfax, Corinne, Jbeaton5, Robert McClenon, and Collect: Also, @Jerome Kohl, Robvanvee, Vipinhari, Bgwhite, StarryGrandma, and GrammarFascist:

Hi Everyone, ...just wanted to let you know that this "Articles for deletion" discussion has been Relisted, in case you would like to share your comments yet once again, here. I am working toward completing sourcing, and believe there is no evidence at all for deletion, and much to the contrary...

To create an article, I find that the reseach—typing, coding, styling, and so on—is very interesting and enjoyable. But, is it my imagination, or do these discussions make Wikipedia more difficult than it should be? best wishes, Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 22:55, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thanks for all the warm wishes & barnstar! Also everyone deserves a bit of cuteness on their talk page when going through a particularly distasteful AfD! Good luck to you. That one looks to be headed to no consensus. If it does get deleted and you want my help stop by my talk page. Cheers!

MurderByDeletionism"bang!" 02:13, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

User:MurderByDeadcopy @MurderByDeadcopy: Now that's too cute! ...murder by over cuteness? . Curiously, I am an enormous cat lover. Thanks for your kind, and charming response. Turns out "no consensus" for Joey Bond, as you predicted. Again, if you ever need any language related help, just write.
Another article I initially created, Michael Laucke, and to which 43 editors contributed over time, has been nominated for GA status for a few months now. (@Checkingfax: did about half of the edits). Would you know how I can get it to GA status and/or get suggestions on necessary improvements to make it actually GA? I wrote the Teahouse, but it's awfully quiet. Merci pour le si beau chat! best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 23:02, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Just wanted to let you know I'm checking into this. Apparently, from everything I've checked, I can do the review. I just need to set aside some time hopefully in the next week! My edit name is a take-off of one of my favorite movies, Murder by Death! But I get the biggest chuckle when editors shorten it to just Murder! --MurderByDeletionism"bang!" 01:03, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
User:MurderByDeadcopy. Hm, Murder by Death ...what a cast! Outstanding performance by Myron (the dog) as well . Seriousness aside, to advance the GA issue would be so great, when time permits; many thanks! Btw, I've been enjoying the attitude, humor and honesty of your responses on your talk page, as well as your unique userboxes. And I would be amiss not to mention your user page, replete with interesting links to articles like Wikipedia doesn't want you! How Deletionists are making sure Wikipedia Isn’t awesome. ...so well written by podcaster Dan Klass. ...gotta love it! À bientôt. best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:20, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Request for a favour, please. ;-))

Dear Natalie,
First of all, thank you once again (already sent you thanks earlier, via the 'Thank You' button ) for the helpful clean-up you applied recently to the article on Vladimir Horowitz, and many others; your help is much appreciated.
My request is somewhat unusual and I won't mind at all if you decline, as it is only indirectly related to Wikipedia. First, a bit of background: like you, I am a native francophone (from Europe, in my case) although I have lived in the UK for most of my adult life, and now residing in Wales. Over many years, I have developed an interest in Quebec French, initially as a result of my appreciation of the song lyrics that Philippe Tatartcheff co-wrote with Kate & Anna McGarrigle. I have recently started a project to translate some of Tatartcheff's poems into English to share them with friends from my local poetry group, some of whom are francophones also, while others are interested francophiles. (In passing – since I am a Wikipedian after all ... – I also decided to improve the English Wikipedia's network of articles on the McGarrigle sisters, including the one on Tatartcheff.)
So, Natalie, the favour I wanted to ask you is this: (deep breath...) would you mind if I approached you from time to time, to help me elucidate some idiomatic expressions specific to Quebec French, which therefore don't exist in other forms of European French? I have several books on Quebec French (Chantal Bouchard, Michel Plourde & Pierre Georgeault) and dictionaries (Pierre DesRuisseaux), but am still unsure about the precise meaning of some words or expressions. Since I don't know anyone in Quebec, I was wondering if you would kindly consider helping me out, from time to time? I promise that I won't burden you with many demands, or put you under any pressure, since this is just a hobby. If, after considering my request, you decide you want to give it a try, I could set up a special sandbox page in which I would insert some of the words or expressions I don't understand and then ping you, for you then to edit the same page with suitable explanations, whenever convenient.
Thinking about this further: one possible by-product of this mini-project between the two of us might be that, over time, we produce interesting material with which we could improve the existing article on Quebec French; this way, our co-operative efforts would also benefit Wikipedia, as long as we are able to comply with WP:VERIFY, of course.
So, what do you think, Natalie?
Thank you in advance for your consideration. Once again, please be assured that I won't mind at all if you say 'No'. (But, if I hadn't asked, I would never have known that you might have said 'Yes'...)
With kind regards for now;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 12:10, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
@Pdebee:
Pdebee. Thank you so much for your very kind message; I certainly appreciate your courteousness and overall charming tone. That's so interesting that you're interested in the Québécois language and culture! Although I am a polyglot, one of my favorite jokes when I meet someone who doesn't know me is, well, ...a typical question here in Quebec is... Are you bilingual? I always like to respond—yes I speak Québécois and French. Of course I would be delighted to help you as time permits. My main focus is articles on music, classical guitar in particular and also atonal music. But I have been born into and interested in the Québécois language and culture all of my life, although most of my studies have been in the French literature - Balzac, Voltaire, André Gide, and so on. And so, ...glad to help.
I guess the first thing to know, which you probably do already, is that the general jargon here in Québec is called 'Joual'. Temperatures can be very cold in the winter here and the origin of this particular word began about a century ago when a Québécois farmer pronounced the word 'Cheval' with a frozen mouth and it came out 'Cela c'est mon joual'. And so people said, look, he speaks like this, 'Joual'. And that word took on the meaning of many different Québécois dialects all under the umbrella of 'Joual'. This is a dialect I know well since I was brought up in St. Hyacinthe, which is an intensely Francophone community. You'd be hard pressed to find any average person there who even knows how to say hello in English or any other language.
You mentioned several interesting books which I am familiar with. One of my own favorite ones is a book on translation by Vinay, Jean-Paul and J.Darbelnet, called Comparative Stylistics of French and English, although it should more properly be called Québécois and English. It was written by two Frenchmen who arrived in the New World and were fascinated by the fact that everything was bilingual, French/English. However, since this part of the world is so far from mother France, many of the translations were laced with anglicisms and sometimes could really be quite humorous. One of my favorite ones is a sign hanging on a fence in rural Quebec. The English read 'Trespassers will be prosecuted'. The Québécois translation was "Les trépasseurs seront persecuté! (People who pass away will be pursued!) So please feel free to write anytime. I should be able to be of some help to you, and it would be a pleasure for me to do so. My upbringing is really quite varied and so I was given several mother tongues, which I do enjoy very much. I think the sandbox page idea is very good and, once again, I will be happy to contribute, always of course considering the restraints of time, which conversely, never stops to consider us.
Another one of my favorite books is 'Dictionnaire de la langue québécoise' by Léandre Bergeron. Léandre's brother, Henry Bergeron, a Radio-Canada host, was a pillar of 'good French' here in Québec and a true model of correct French that some Québécois aspire to. He developed slogans like "Bien parler, c'est se respecter" that you saw on large billboards and on buses. Also, "Bien parler pour être bien compris" and "On est 6 millions, faut se parler", and so on. It was certainly the most curious happenstance that Henry Bergeron was a champion of good French, that is to say leaning more towards European French, whereas his brother fought his whole life for Québécois French. To my mind, Québécois French is a bit what folklorish Yiddish is to German. That is to say, Yiddish has a much more relaxed syntax, grammar, and generally more relaxed language rules, if not categorically incorrect at times. As far as the declensions inherent in German, well, you simply wont find them in Yiddish. And you wont find the 'Pluperfect' much in Québécois. But I digress... Thank you very much once again for your very courteous e-mail.
With all my very best wishes, and all the blessings of life, Natalie.
Dear Natalie,
First of all, very many thanks for taking the time to respond so wonderfully and so sweetly to my request! I am immensely grateful to you, Natalie; thrilled to bits; over the Moon; aux anges, comme on dit! I had not heard either of your two jokes before and they caused me to laugh out loud, particularly at reading the hilarious: Les trépasseurs seront persecutés!; not only will people be persecuted, but so will their corpses; there will be NO escape possible!
I am most grateful to you for pointing out these two books, which I have now ordered on Amazon (one from France and the other from here in the UK.) There are so many books that it is difficult to assess their usefulness, except when they can be looked into online. So, many thanks, Natalie, for your wonderful help with these pointers already.
I am fascinated by your analogy between Québécois and Yiddish; this had never occurred to me but it makes abundant sense, on reflection. I am also very pleased that you have already begun to introduce me to various aspects of Québécois, some of which I only encountered recently, such as the existence of Joual, which I read here on the Wiki for the first time only a few weeks ago. I am also still reading the other books I mentioned, and find the whole history truly fascinating. I attended teacher's college, and my language teachers instilled in me a deep interest in philologie and linguistique, which has stayed with me all this time. Before that, my childhood was spent partly in a very rural community in the Belgian Ardennes; so, I was immersed in Walloon language and culture for several years. I think that part of my interest in Québécois, Walloon and other languages stems from a respectful appreciation of the roots of communities through their ways of expressing themselves; put differently, it feels like a form of archeology applied to the understanding of languages. In the case of Québécois, it's the whole idea of another big branch of the common tree and the roots shared by all the branches of the same tree; in this case, the history of French through the centuries.
In addition, as a poet I see very clearly to beauty of imagery in a language's idiomatic expressions, many of which are true poetical gems. Here's an example: in one part of Wallonia, there is an expression that old people used when it was raining in one part of the sky while the sun was shining in another, causing that magical effect of seeing raindrops lit up by sunshine and, of course, the inevitable rainbow; in such cases, these old people would say:
N'a l' feille di Djal qui s' mareille (= Il y a la fille du Diable qui se marie).
The whole idea and its imagery is simply superb, and yet, it had been conceived and was being kept alive by a rural community who were looked down upon by other sections of society, as so often happens and in so many places, sadly.
I think it is time I signed off before running the risk of overstaying my welcome. But please know that I am deeply grateful to you for agreeing to assist me in my understanding of your native language, which sounds so close to mine and yet so distant at the same time. I will create the sandbox-type page in the near future and will ping you from there, and then wait patiently for your response as time permits. I re-iterate my promise to remain sensitive to your priorities and to refrain from imposing on your time and patience in any way. Finally, I sense that we may already share some traits: chatty and cordial; I think it augurs well and I am truly delighted you said 'Yes'.
Thank you very much for your warm and kind wishes, which I wholeheartedly reciprocate. More later, then ...
With kindest regards for now;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 17:31, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
@Pdebee:
Pdebee. Thanks once again very much for your kind and sensitive response. I'm very glad I was able to share those two jokes with you. This is something that one can share with few. But being immersed in the Walloon language and culture, you certainly understand what it's like to feel like a privileged member of a little club that speaks a language that not many people know worldwide. Although Quebecois is in fact my mother tongue, I do have several others including Slavic languages, and in that sense I am not considered a 'Pure laine' (dyed-in-the-wool); that is, someone who is uni-lingual and who has, typically, a Quebecois mother and Quebecois father. But I've always been proud of this little Quebecois heritage, and it has a very special little place in my heart.
Following our conversation here, I took the pleasure of reading The Wikipedia article on French Quebecois. I found it extremely well done and I agree with almost everything that was said. There was a mention of the word 'Joual' and it reminded me that the word is used mainly for the Montreal dialect and that other communities have different dialects. While this is true, on the street most people refer to Joual as the ensemble of all Quebecois dialects throughout the province of about 6 million. It actually pertains only to the Montreal Slang dialect which is still considerable since the city is of some 4 million people. Well, one link leads to another and I found a Quebecois actor that I enjoy very much, Julien Poulin. He is divisive; some are offended by his being so Pure laine Quebecois, and other find him hilarious. I find that Quebecois lends itself to humor very easily. In fact its' very sounds can be construed as humorous. This can be heard way back in the songs of La Bolduc. But one certainly would never expect any French person to understand what she's saying. It's well known that when Quebecois films are played in Paris, they are shown with French subtitles. Some Quebecois find this offensive and hard to believe that a French person cannot understand what they are saying; and they attribute this to snobbery, but I'm of the former variety—super funny (and privileged to understand it). Again, many a native German speaker will not easily understand Yiddish, but Yiddish speakers often understand German quite easily. So once again there you have the same type of link.
...back to Julien Poulin, who is most known for his role as Elvis Gratton, an Elvis impersonator no less. The character has a great admiration for Elvis Presley and all things American and identifies with that in order to feel bigger. So here is a classic link to one of Elvis Gratton's famous tirades where he's thinking aloud, trying to figure out exactly what he is—Canadian, part American, part Quebecois, French, French from North America, or a mixture of all of these. Hope you don't have too much difficulty with the dialect in this Youtube link. >>> Elvis Gratton - Canadien français québécois... whatever
I love your statement about 'a form of archaeology applied to the understanding of languages'. Never thought of it that way but it certainly is most interesting. Indeed, imagery in folkloric languages, if they can be generally categorized as such, is very apt. I look forward to getting a link to your sandbox and to help out and contribute to your wonderful endeavor.... Looking forward to your pings. ...and eager to hear from you soon. ...with renewed thanks for the sensitive and delicate way that you approach things, and for the fantastic contribution that you have made so far to Wikipedia. Bonne continuation! Tous mes meilleurs vœux,, Natalie. --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:44, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

@Natalie.Desautels:
Dear Natalie,
Thank you very much for your kind reply above, and also for the one in French you added at my talk page the other day.
I intend to reply to that one later. Also, please forgive the delay in returning thanks, as I decided to take it easy for the weekend; thank you for understanding.

However, I've now created our brand new Québécois sandbox, along with a more detailed message for you at its talk page!

As you will see when you have the time to visit the sandbox, an initial structure is now in place, along with our first word: bure, for which I have completed the details I was able to find out for myself. You will see that I've also added the same (empty) structure for our next word: délester, which you can ignore until I've had the time to update the details there too. I will probably submit one item every week or even at longer intervals; of course, I don't expect you to match that rate with your responses, since we are agreed that you will help only if/when time permits.
Well, happy reading, and thank you so much, dear Natalie!
With kindest regards for now;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 11:44, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Earwig's Copyvio Detector results for existing GA articles

Hi @Checkingfax:. I trust you are well! I see you have been continuing your wonderful work on Wikipedia. I am hoping you can help me understand Earwig's Copyvio Detector results in articles that have already attained GA status. GA articles such as Paco de Lucía, Leonardo da Vinci, and Nelson Mandela show violation expected results as high as 96% to 98%. I worked on Pierre Boulez, which also had a very high confidence of violation level; I found that simply 'putting it in your own words' of course makes the violation level acceptable. I guess that these articles attained GA status first, and then other material was copy/pasted directly into the article to make the violation suspected level so high? ...kindly confirm this assumption? very best wishes, and renewed congratulations for such kind help to everybody. Natalie --Natalie.Desautels ([[User talk:Natalie.Desautels#top|talk]]) 21:25, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi Natalie. I am not well but I am recovering quickly.
Earwig's copyright vio detector is a starting point. Then you have to dig in. For instance, Earwig's showed two high confidence copyright vios on Planned Parenthood, an article I am trying to get to GA status. PS: Please check out the GA review and see if you can help me fix the remaining prose/reference issue in the Worldwide availability section. Preemptively I ran Earwig's on PP because that part of the GA review is coming up and I was disappointed to see the two high confidence copyright vios detected, but I dug in and found out the other pages copied their entries from the PP article, not the other way around. To wit, one vio was printed on a Blog on January 27, 2015, but the Wikipedia version was written as early as 2011. In the other case the Blog attributed their version as being copied or inspired by the Wikipedia version. So, many Earwig hits are actually circular in nature. Other times large quoted sections are seen as copyright vios by Earwig. That is one reason I do not condone a lot of quoting in articles. So, try to figure out if the Wikipedia entry preceded the "violated" article's entry, and see if the reason for the reported vio is a long quoted section from an outside article. Does that help? If you find copyrighted material you must immediately remove it or "put it in your own words". There is also a template for hatting and a multi-step procedure for reporting copyright violations that allow a team to investigate if it is indeed a vio. Doc James (see his Wikipedia article at James Heilman) has documented and published stories of big time periodicals copying info from Wikipedia without attribution. Anybody is free to copy Wikipedia with proper attribution. PS: Doc James was community elected to the Board of Trustees last year and six months later was the first Trustee to ever be kicked off the Board. He still remains active as an editor and as a Wikipedia activist.
I temporarily hid the content on the PP article but once I was convinced the content was not a vio, a put a template on the PP Talk page to that effect. You can see the template and its entries here: Talk:Planned Parenthood. The template is: {{backwardscopy}}. Click on the template here to see the parameters you can utilize. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 22:06, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi @Checkingfax:. Now that's a pretty neat template: {{backwardscopy}}! It's always nice to hear from you, and I always seem to learn something new to boot . ...glad things are improving, as they should.
I read with interest the PP Talk section, and then ran the Copyvio Detector on the Planned Parenthood article. It showed the entire article to be at a very low 22% possible violation, certainly extrememey low compared to other GA articles I mentioned above which are almost at 100% likely violation! ...I'm not sure if you want it further Copyvio improved but it would be my pleasure to do so. The Worldwide availability section has little violation as well—hardly any, really, as far as I can tell.
I found that just using a different syntax, some synonymes, re-organizing sentence structure and so on handles potential vio issues pretty well and its interesting work as well. I wouldn't bother with what's on other sites, since it's too much hassle to try to change them even if they did get their material from Wikipedia. It may not seem fair, but I think it's easier to extend this flexibility to more quickly resolve the vio issue and free up time.
I'll be more than happy to help out in any way I can; please advise. (I see it can be tricky because an article can be accepted GA, and than new stuff is copy/pasted and the violation possibly goes sky high.). ...lemme know what I might contribute here and I'll make it so. All my very best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 23:40, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Natalie. I am satisfied that the copyright vio issues with the PP article are now moot.
What I need help with is the prose and reference issue raised in the Worldwide availability section of the GA1 review being conducted by user Casliber. I nearly have it licked but need to buff the section a bit more to complete the prose portion of the GA review for that section of the PP article. (the copyright vio check has not been performed by Casliber yet‍—‌I just did a pre-emptive check). Thank you.
All sections of the GA1 review that are stricken out have been fulfilled. Cheers! PS: MurderByDeadcopy indicated that s/he was starting the Michael Laucke GA review but has not. I won't bug them about it though. {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 23:55, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi @Checkingfax: With my 1 permitted edit per day (1RR), no sooner did I reduce the Violation Unlikely from 21.9% in the Worldwide availability section, than the Copyvio Detector now shows 69.3%. The new problem area is Other court cases, where almost the whole paragraph was copied. The vio wasn't there an hour ago! It seems this is a case of what you stated earlier—that other sites are quoting Wikipedia, as in this case. The culprit begins "In some states, anti-abortion Attorneys General..." Since we only have one edit per 24 hours, I'll fix this paragraph when permitted, unless you want me to focus on the prose and reference issue first.
I entirely understand the the prose and reference issue in the Worldwide availability section. Also, I would think it good to reduce the long lists of countries by stating "many countries" and finding good refs for perhaps three of the most important ones. I'd like to attend to this but 1RR is certainly restrictive ..oh well, as time permits... PS. MurderByDeadcopy will get around to the GA revue in due time I imagine ...lots of other fish to fry in the meantime Oops, I see my PP edit was just reverted, wanting to keep quote instead of stating meaning of quote; that's fine. Oh, now the violation unlikely is back to a ow 29.9%; hm, don't get it. best wishes, Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 00:39, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Natalie. The Other court cases section is the section where I overcame the copyright vio issue by figuring out the Wikipedia version predated the Blog version. DO NOT EDIT that section to minimize copyright issues as there are none. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 00:46, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Natalie. To violate 1RR you have to: post something; have it reverted; repost it within 24 hours. Or, revert somebody else's work more than once in 24-hours. Does not have to be the same section. Does not have to be the same person. Or, somebody might revert something randomly; you restore it; they revert it; you revert it again: Now you've violated 1RR. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 00:49, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Natalie. Casliber is OK with the list in the Worldwide availability section. He just wants the section buffed a bit more. No need to remove the list at this juncture as there is enough prose to balance it as before there was not. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 00:57, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Natalie. Quotes are OK if attributed. Inline quotes should be wrapped in quote marks. If there are nested quotes then the you have to start toggling single quote marks and double quote marks within the overall quote. Blockquotes do not use quote marks. Quotes may not be changed except to remove ALL CAPS, and other minor stylistic changes. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 01:01, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Natalie. Take Earwig's with a big grain of salt. It is an automated tool and does no deep analysis of what it finds. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 01:01, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi @Checkingfax:. OK. ...will not touch Other court cases section. ...good to know about all the myriad rules of policy 1RR; in a way it's less restrictive than at first glance. I'll look into polishing the Worldwide Availability section a bit. ...also good to know more about quotes as well. Earwig's gizmo detected some trouble there, but as you say ...tread lightly. I stated the meaning of the quote instead of the verbatim quote and the wording was almost quite the same, without misquoting of course. And I think it was better, but if someone else really likes to see the quotation marks, that's fine with me; whatever makes Wikipedia better = ego reset = delete self-importance ...a plus tard. Un gros merci! Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 01:44, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Natalie. You can edit any section on PP to improve it, but there are no copyright vio concerns on that page. Putting a quote in to your own words should be acceptable if you remove the quote marks. Joel B. Lewis (JBL) is a PP page nanny. He he is a pseudo-SPA editor who only edits mathematics articles which is his field, but for some reason reverts a lot of edits on Planned Parenthood, his only non-math editing efforts. FYI, if you feel strongly that your edit (which was not a reversion) was good, you can go back in and put it back and JBL cannot remove it for 24-hours but one of his fanboys might . One editor reverted me four times over there the other day, so I sent her a DS/A (Discretionary Sanctions Alert‍—‌topic=abortion) and a 1RR warning, which s/he deleted from her talk page with a snarky edit summary, but then she came to her senses and self-reverted one of her reversions. JBL reverted me once too, and I reverted his reversion, and he wisely backed down as required by 1RR. Prior to that he chided me on my talk page for "violating BRD". Sheesh. I'm trying to improve the page, not tear it down! Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 02:15, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Planned Parenthood

Hi, Natalie -- I noticed your edit reverting a revert of your earlier edit to Planned Parenthood. I have no opinion either way with regard to whether the quote should stay as a direct quote or be paraphrased, but I thought I'd mention that the proper procedure when you wish to challenge or discuss a revert of your own edit is to start a discussion on the article's talk page. See WP:BRD –  BOLD, REVERT, DISCUSS: be bold (that was your revision of the sentence); the other editor reverted; the next step is not to revert but to discuss and try to reach a consensus. Corinne (talk) 04:09, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

P.S. After I saved this comment, I saw Checkingfax's comments, above. I know nothing about the other editors editing the Planned Parenthood article. I guess I don't understand what Checkingfax meant when s/he said, above, that your edit was not a reversion, but that's all right. I don't need to know. I respect Checkingfax's advice no matter what. Corinne (talk) 04:14, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi Corinne (and hi Natalie). Thank you for your comments on this. I was mostly speaking to the 1RR limitation on any topic regarding abortion. Natalie understood it to mean she could only do one edit per 24-hours so I was explaining some scenarios that would actually put her in violation of the 1RR sanctions. Edits do not count as reversions unless they are done right on top of an edit.
Personally I feel that deleting somebody's work without discussion is beyond bold and once that card is played the reverter who does so without a heads up has given up their BRD privilege and has already escalated matters. I find most of these hair-trigger reverting editors unapproachable and I just revert them with a polite and guideline based edit summary like Natalie did. Sometimes I place notices or warnings on their talk pages just so they are reminded of the ground rules. When I was reverted 4 times by one editor on this 1RR page I kept my cool and did not run off to an ANI (Administrator's Notice Incident) board even though it would have been completely with my rights.
When under I assault I use BRD as a last resort or I just back off. BRD is somebody's essay that is now a group essay. It is not a policy, nor even a guideline. Very little on Wikipedia is policy. Some is guideline. And then there are essays‍—‌tens of thousands of them.
Back to the quote: It is nearly impossible to rewrite a one sentence quote "in your own words" without close paraphrasing (plagiarism), so the only way to really pull it off is to smooth the thought in to a whole paragraph in "your own words". Planned Parenthood is a controversial topic and that was part of the challenge I undertook to try to bring it to a Good Article status. Thanks for your help, ladies. And, I am totally out there as a male Wikipedian, so you can call me him! Cheers! PS: I wonder which articles are 0RR? {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:38, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Corinne. Just to clarify: My position is that Natalie's first edit go around was not a reversion. It was a good faith improvement edit to fix an issue she saw. Her effort was reverted. Natalie reverted the revert. Natalie was now at the 1RR threshold but had not violated it. Another revert would be a 1RR violation. A 1RR takes 2 reverts to be in violation; a 3RR takes 4 reverts to be in violation. On a 1RR topic the reverts are aggregated even if from different pages! India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan broadly construed are 1RR so one revert on an Indian related page, and one on a Pakistan related and you're in violation. Caitlyn Jenner is part of a 1RR topic that covers a host of topics (transgender, hebephilia, paraphilia, etc.) and Jenner is entwined with at least nine Wikipedia pages, so if you revert anything about her on those any of those pages, it aggregates toward the 1RR limit. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:53, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Checkingfax Thanks for the explanations and information. Not that I am likely to be reverting a lot of edits in any one article or area, but could you tell me how you know which articles are included in the group of related articles for which edits made in any one count toward the total of reverts under 3RR or 1RR? Corinne (talk) 16:06, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Corinne and Natalie. I only revert vandalism or stupidity. If somebody has made multiple good faith but lousy edits in a row I will use AGF rollback. I edit other entries to improve them instead of reverting them. However, a massive re-edit is the same as a revert. The 3RR tally is only germane to one article at a time. All articles fall under 3RR at minimum. For 1RR it is a collective tally. The 1RR (or 0RR) status will appear in an edit notice when you open the edit window. Dicey because wikEd jumps you down the edit page so you miss those notices. Usually if you are violating 1RR blindly somebody will warn you on your talk page. Also, the talk page of the article usually has a 1RR or (0RR) notice. I have never seen a 0RR page. I tried to report a 1RR violation once and there is no easy way to do it (Twinkle does not include a 1RR track‍—‌only 3RR ones). As a Pending Changes Reviewer I mostly accept proposed edits and then fix them. Rarely do I feel the need to decline them as it usually only takes a minute to fix them. Although, sometimes I fail at being able to find a source to backup the proposed edit‍—‌especially if it is a statistic or award. Most mentions lead back to Wikipedia and that does not help to confirm the proposed edit. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 19:58, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
@Corinne and Checkingfax: Corinne , Thank you very much for the explanation of the proper procedure to follow when one wishes to challenge or discuss a revert of one's own edit. The last step of the WP:BRD , not to revert but to discuss, is especially appreciated; going forward, I will certainly keep this important step in mind. There's always so many rules and procedures to learn and one tries to keep the learning curve, well, reasonable (Should I spend time on this? Is this important? ...and so on). One can't read everything and so, problem is, when left on one's own one doesn't know which policy is really important, if it applies, to what degree, and so on. Experience teaches us something about the hierarchy of priorities, and when someone extends help, as you have so kindly done, (and Checkingfax peobably hundreds of times), then precious time is saved. Regarding going it alone, Pierre Boulez used to say that an auto-didactic person is someone who is always astonished when he finds out what everyone else already knows (roughly translated). So, thanks again; much appreciated.
Checkingfax Thanks for this great insight into the workings of 0RR up to 3RR, and sharing your experiences which I found interesting and educational, as always. I have thoroughly read over the PP article with a view towards improving it, but am at a bit of a standstill; I guess I'm more at home with music, philosophy, computer science and humour. Speaking of which, I found a fantastic WP article on a musician I absolutely adored, Peter Schickele and his fictitious character P. D. Q. Bach (1807–1742)?. Do you know of him? He was quite the fad here on the east coast, from New York to Montreal. I always loved the instrumentation in his compositions, the tromboon, dill piccolo, and so on. One of my favorite pieces is his Echo Sonata for Two Unfriendly Groups of Instruments best wishes, Natalie, Natalie.Desautels (talk) 02:02, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, Natalie -- I'm pretty much at the same stage as you are, maybe just a little ahead in terms of time editing, but that's all. Just when I think I've learned the basic rules, I learn that they are not rules at all. I just learned from Checkingfax's comment just above that BRD is not a rule or even a guideline. So I guess I was wrong to even point it out to you. I think Checkingfax is right – basic courtesy goes a long way. Regarding Peter Schickele, I loved him and his group, too. I saw them perform once; can't remember when or where, though. Corinne (talk) 04:15, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Natalie and Corinne. Corinne, I think you were right to tell Natalie about BRD. It is a good concept. However I have not had much luck using it with editors like Joel B. Lewis who are more interested in performing verbal Kung Fu than looking at page edits from a 30,000 foot view. And then their sycophants pile on quickly. Pretty soon we just have a Mexican standoff going on. My M.O. on a 3RR page is to do a couple of AGF rollbacks with WP:Twinkle and then back off. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 05:30, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Planned Parenthood, Michael Laucke, various and sundry...

(moved from Talk:Michael Laucke) @Checkingfax: Planned Parenthood: I contributed some small edits of the Planned Parenthood#Worldwide availability section. Hope it helps a bit but it does look really good to me in general.

Jascha Heifitz: I contributed some edits on violinist Jascha Heifitz. I was going to make an infobox for the man who has been most often referred to as the greatist violinist on our time, and saw this notice. <!-- please do not add an infobox, per [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical music#Biographical infoboxes]]-->. I looked it up here , and would love to know you thoughts on this. There is aleady a nice photo on his page; ...looks a bit unusual without an infobox I think.

Various and sundry : By the way, I found you comment-"Very little on Wikipedia is policy. Some is guideline. And then there are essays‍—‌tens of thousands of them."- very interesting. It does seem that for so many policies there exists it's equal and opposite (I think we say in English.)

I've been an editor for one year now! ...about 2,500 edits globally (English, French and Spanish so far). At times it can feel like running through a mine field . You know the great mythologist Joseph Campbell was asked, given the incredible evolution of humans towards a higher understanding, why there is still strife and conflict. His kind of funny answer was "some people just like to fight"...PS. Did you know that woman are only 15% of contributors? Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 5:03 pm, Today (UTC−8)

Hi Natalie. I am moving this discussion over here since most of it is not germane to Michael Laucke.
Edits on PP look good but I refactored the external links and jiggered the wikilinks. The BGWhiteBot moved the category down to the Category area. I have asked Casliber to review our edits for GA.
Go ahead and make an infobox if you choose to. If you read the RfCs linked from that wikilink above y ou will find that musical infoboxes were deemed optional. They are not prohibited. So, when I see that notice now, I edit it to this: <!-- per [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical music#Biographical infoboxes]] infoboxes are optional -->
If you find a policy, you can find an essay to counter it with.
See if you can get a medal for 2500 edits. I use a template to update my edit medal (you have to enter the edit count manually‍—‌it is not a smart template). Congratulations regardless. At this pace you will pass me.
I am suspicious of the 15% number. Nobody knows what sex you really are on the Internets. I think it is closer to 35%. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 01:23, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi again. I have a script installed that turns redirected links green and I wondered why the violinst link you provided above was green so I found out the actual page is spelled with an etz while you spelled it itz. That is what redirects are for! I have created thousands of them for that same reason. Don't want people getting lost. The Wikipedia search is useless with misspelled terms. But, they're working on it with a new "Knowledge Engine". Big can-o-worms right now that KE is. A regular powder keg with some of our editors.
The template I use for edit count is: {{User:JohnRussell/wikipedianumedits|18,377}} (replace 18,377 with your edit count)
The template I use to display the proper medal is:
{{service awards|year=2010|month=March|day=24|edits=18377}} (no need for a comma in the edit count with this one: e.g.- use 2504, not 2,504. Be sure to change the year, month, and day to your account registration date: I believe this can be found in your account Preferences)
If you go to my userpage you can see how the templates display. The userbox is near top of page and the medal is below the block of userboxes halfway down the page. Every now and then you can update your counts and the medal will update appropriately. You can also click on a link within the medal display to see the break points for the various medals. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 01:37, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
@Checkingfax: Thanks again for all this tremendously good advice! I have somewhat of a cold (Canada in winter, brrr), so ...not the clarity of mind I like; I mixed up the correct talk page, and of course you picked that up right off.
I made a satisfying infobox for Jascha Heifetz (indeed, I misspelled one of my favorite musicians, as you also discovered). I really do think it looks so much more professional with the new infobox; ...hope no one hauls out the guillotine. I also left the notice you recommended—<!-- per [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical music#Biographical infoboxes]] infoboxes are optional -->
I viewed a very interesting video linked from "bang!"'s talk page about the decline of new Wikipedia users over the past few years and the reason why; that's where the moderator mentioned 15% woman (who apparently scare away easier!). Considering what you said, that the Internet doesn't know who you are, I now wonder how that figure was arrived at.
It will be amazing when they advance with that 'Knowledge Engine', to bring searches closer to what Google Labs used to call 'heuristic search' at the beginning, until it became so successful that now it is part of the standard way to search.
The Preferences menu brings up View global account info , and there one can see all contributions under one's username, in all languages, and so on.
Thanks for simplifying the proper medal template. I hesitated since I see editors with 90,000 edits, and I only have 2,500. But I guess after 1 year it's not too bad... Perhaps I could have done more if I didn't back down when I sensed the chop block waiting. I noticed that you handle all that stuff really well, in fact amazingly so! Now where can I get some of those super powers .
I couldn't get {{service awards|year=2010|month=March|day=24|edits=18377}} to display but one can mouse over one of the userboxes to see the year/month/day of Wikipedia birth info.
I had intended to do more work on PP, but now it's almost 6am, so ...zzz. I started on some research based on Cas Liber's suggestions, to wit "we still need a ref for 'Countries and territories in the Western hemisphere affected by the mosquito-borne Zika virus' and benefiting from Planned Parenthood Global's reproductive planning outreach". There is a wealth of material and I found these two links interesting—perhaps you might find them useful...
All my very best wishes, with renewed thanks for your amazing help and consistency. Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 11:28, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Natalie. There was an extra "|" at the end of that template sample I gave you. I have removed it in the two samples above. I also added it to your user page without the extra pipe. Go check it out. Look at it in edit-source to see what parameters I used, or can you do that with VisualEditor too? Oh, right you can go either way with VisualEditor. You can add some parameters if you need to tweak it. You can find the extra parameters by clicking here → {{Service awards}}
Did Cas Liber reply to my latest post at GA1? If so, maybe we're OK with prose and refs. I'll go check. Thanks for the extra refs just in case. Take care. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 12:28, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I hope you don't mind my intruding in your discussion, but I'd like to add my congratulations to you, Natalie! Also, regarding the KE, it seems, though we cannot be sure, that it is not in the works anymore. See User talk:Jytdog#Excellent... and the links toward the end of that discussion, particularly the one to Max's statements. Corinne (talk) 16:27, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi @Corinne:...no intrusion at all; it is always a delight to hear from you! I have been busy helping out a long time friend with some medical issues, so I couldn't get back to you as quickly as I would have wished. Thank you for your congratulations to me for my small accomplishment here at Wikipedia; that's very kind of you. Too bad about the KE engine; alas, it could have been so useful. Oh, I was very happy to learn that you had enjoyed PDQ Bach. I do think that Peter Schickele invented something unique in the history of music, that is, music that 'tickles one's funny bone'. Throughout it's evolution, music has seen an embedded practical joke now and then, albeit rather 'corny'. One thinks of Hayden, and so on. But no one ever composed music that, as it unravels before us, makes it's way right into one's 'funny bone', for lack of a better word ...not the words or the slapstick , but the music itself. The way the harmonies progress in such a humorous direction; the melody that does eventually resolve but in a 'funny' place, just a bit off where you would expect it. When a refrain is repeated two times, it seems normal, but as it's repeated 4 or 5 times without an end in sight, well, it's just amazing that no one ever thought of composing music that is intrinsically humorous—after all, music expresses every imaginable emotion, so why not humor? But I digress. ...seems I got carried away again. Thanks for sharing your Peter Schickele story with me! all my very best wishes, natalie, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 21:18, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
Your understanding of the musical element in Peter Schickele's work is remarkable, and you captured it well. I also think the words, titles and names of instruments added to the humor. I can think of another musician who brought humor into his work: Victor Borge. Corinne (talk) 00:59, 25 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Natalie and Corinne. From my childhood I thought I remembered "Popcorn" being a P. D. Q. Bach piece but I can find no confirmation of that remembrance.
I also found a study today that stated in 2010 that about 25% of Wikipedia cohorts (a homogenization of readers and editors) are between the ages of 10 and 17. Also, 25% of Wikipedia cohorts are between the age of 35 and 80. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 13:26, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
@Corinne and Checkingfax: Hi @Corinne: How wonderful to be reminded of the comedic genius of Victor Borge who gave us so much pleasure into his 90th year! He was more conductor and pianist than composer, but, ...so delightful. I'm in a bit of a rush, going to visit a friend in the hospital, but I have been wanting to take a moment to thank you for your fine example of good English in the refined edits you did on the Michael Laucke article. I had also read User:Tony1/How to improve your writing but somehow your live example really carried important lessons for me. I really 'got' what a phrase needs in order to be clearer, after studying the thought possesses behind your edits. Sometimes one can read over a sentence and know it can be improved but not know what will do the trick. It was especially interesting for me since English does not have the four gender agreements that French uses for clarity, nor the many declensions of German, making a combined 26 adjectival forms; that is, combinations of nominative, accusative, genitive and dative. If we refer to a noun, in other languages, the gender of masculine, masculine plural and so on makes the object perfectly clear. In English, the phrase itself has to be carefully modeled; there is a limit to how many times one can use "the former" and "the later". At least this is my subjective observation. I may be a bit off here, since my English studies, Shakespeare, Emerson, and in a different vain Mark Twain, were accomplished privately. Formally, I studied 8 years of literature in languages which were essentially given to me at birth, it would seem, but somehow English was so pervasive that it never worked it's way into my formal education. In fact, depending on who one believes, I either have no accent in any language, or have an accent in every language. I know that when I'm tired, I produce guttural sounds from Slavic languages I spoke more often as a child. Hm, I see I've gotten carried away again. So, thank you for joyful memories of Victor Borge, and of course for your so well crafted edits from which I learned so much, in particular on how to achieve greater clarity, how to avoid redundancy, and so on. very best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 19:53, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
@Corinne and Checkingfax: Hi @Checkingfax: How timely. I am visiting a friend in the hospital and the Popcorn tune brought some light, and delight, into the room! Wikipedia has a pretty good article on Popcorn (instrumental) and its composer Gershon Kingsley. What an interesting life story that of Gershon Kingsley; well, interesting in the sense of the ancient Chinese wisdom/blessing/curse "May you live in interesting times". There is an absolutely delightful video of Kingsley, now an elderly gentleman, playing Popcorn on a grand piano, ...no synthesizer; Gershon Kingsley plays Popcorn 2007. best wishes, Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 19:59, 27 February 2016 (UTC)
Hi Natalie and Corinne. I was probably remembering the album Switched-On Bach (1968) (not P. D. Q. Bach) from the year before "Popcorn" (1969) came out, and by a different artist (Wendy Carlos). Amazing that when Hot Butter covered "Popcorn" in 1972 that on Billboard the chart was 1-2-3 – "American Pie" → "Popcorn" → "Layla".[1] I am glad popping some popcorn brought joy and warm memories to a hospital room so far away on this chilly day. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 00:03, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, Natalie, so much for your kind words. I can write when I need to, but I don't enjoy it as much as I enjoy improving other people's writing. I think I got the ability partly from reading so much great literature when I was younger, partly from reading things while preparing to teach writing, and partly from correcting student writing for so many years. If you have time and want to see more, you can look at the articles I copy-edit for the Guild of Copy Editors. You can either look at the requests page at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests and see which article I'm working on, or you can look at my Contributions.
Checkingfax and Natalie – Regarding Popcorn, I like the tune, but I can't say I like the sound of the synthesizer. I liked it much more in that video of Gershon Kingsley playing the piece on the piano (thanks, Natalie, for the link). Corinne (talk) 00:40, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://blog.seattlepi.com/angtime/2008/02/21/song-review-popcorn-by-hot-butter/

@Corinne and Checkingfax: Hi Checkingfax, ah, Switched-On Bach ...fond memories indeed! I found your ref to Song Review: Popcorn by Hot Butter quite interesting and amusing. The mention of Clapton's Layla certainly stirred up a few feelings . Many thanks once again. very best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 17:38, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

@Corinne and Checkingfax: Hi Corinne, It was interesting to learn a little bit about how your skill in English was achieved. I have been browsing the articles you copy-edited for the Guild of Copy Editors. I found that your Contributions was also an excellent source of study. I use Diff to focus on the left hand side in order to try to guess the correct answer on the right. I imagine I guess correctly about 65—70% of the time. Sometimes it can be tricky to discover the small and subtle changes needed. Yet when the right construction is found, it seems to just jump off the page ...'advancing on chaos and the dark' (Emerson). Thanks so much once again. very best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 17:38, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi, Natalie - I'm glad you found my Contributions helpful. I just want to mention something: in some articles, I see evidence that the writer is a non-native speaker of English, so I am putting poorly constructed sentences or non-colloquial wording into good Standard English. In other articles, it is clear that the writer is a native speaker of English, so I am working to make good, or even very good, writing even better with just a few minor changes here and there. If you want me to point out examples of one or both of these, let me know (perhaps you can tell the difference yourself by just looking at what was there).  – Corinne (talk) 00:29, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi Corinne Indeed, studying your Contributions has been immensely helpful to me. I did notice evidence of texts by non-native and native speakers of English; it was interesting how each is 'tweaked' differently, as you mentioned, in order to make sentences clear, flow nicely and make sense. Regarding your very kind offer to point out examples of both of these, I certainly wouldn't refuse! That would be great. Examples for native speakers of English would benefit me most, but naturally one can learn from both. Many thanks once again. all my very best wishes, Natalie, Natalie.Desautels (talk) 12:43, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
See User talk:Cerme#Trajan (earlier) and User talk:Cerme#Trajan 2 (today).  – Corinne (talk) 03:47, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, Corinne. I found the two Trajan links tremendously interesting. The logic behind your editing examples is just so clear. ...with much appreciation, very best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 08:52, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

GA status review

[Re-located from Patrick's sandbox. ]

@Checkingfax and Pdebee: Hello Patrick. I trust you are well. I had the pleasure of making some contributions to the page on Quebec French (Québécois) idiomatic expressions at (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pdebee/My_sandbox5) and hope they prove useful.

In another area, I was wondering if you have experience with reviewing GA nominated articles. I created an article on internationally renowned Canadian guitarist Michael Laucke which has been nominated for GA status and needs to be reviewed. In fact, it is presently being reviewed by the editor MurderByDeletionism (great name! ). As things are progressing rather slowly, I was just wondering if I could infringe upon your kindness and at least inquire if you are familiar with the GA review process and can perhaps help if time permits. all my very best wishes, Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 00:11, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Dear Natalie,
First of all, thank you so much for the two contributions you've already made to our Quebec French (Québécois) mini-project! I would have responded sooner–and will do so in more detail later–were it not for taking a mini-break since last week. Your participation to my efforts is very much appreciated and I remain deeply grateful to my native Québécois wikifriend for her kind willingness to help me improve my understanding of québécismes.
Secondly, about your request for my participation to the GA review process of Michael Laucke, I will be only too pleased to help when I have returned from the present mini-break. As this would be my first, I will need to familiarize myself with the process but I am sure that won't be too much of a challenge. In fact, you've given me the opportunity to get involved with GA reviews and therefore learn new skills, thereby also growing as an editor.
So, Natalie, thank you very much on both counts and I will contact you again in the next few days, after concluding my mini-break. Until then, please keep well and joyful.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 10:48, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Gender in userboxes.

Dear Natalie,
I just noticed your recent addition of a witty userbox at your user page, which refers to you as 'he'. Now, unless 'Natalie' also has a masculine form in Québec (), I thought I'd mention that you can select the gender that Wikipedia will use to represent you in userboxes. Here is how:

  1. click on the 'Preferences' tab (at the Wikipedia banner, next to 'Sandbox')
  2. (you are now viewing your 'User profile' pane)
  3. scroll down to the 'Internationalisation' section
  4. select the appropriate of three options in 'How do you prefer to be described?'
  5. scroll down to the very end of the screen and click on the 'Save' button.

If/when you decide to do this and select the middle option ('She edits wiki pages'), then you'll find that the cat userbox will now refer to you as 'she', as will all current userboxes and, indeed, all those you will add in future.
Please forgive me if you already knew all this but had postponed applying this change until a later date, when no longer busy making really useful contributions to our encyclopedia.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 11:15, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Pdebee. Thank you so much for this very useful information. I have now attended to correcting the gender. Funny, I tried to do this just this evening but could not find where and assumed it was not possible. At present, I cleared the cache and some userboxes still say 'Cet utilisateur', acceptable I guess, while Babel says 'Cette utilisatrice', which is preferable of course. Thanks so much for taking the time (and in such a timely manner!) to help out with this issue, and for your kindness in words which can only create confidence. very best wishes, --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 11:43, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
Dear Natalie,
You're most welcome! I hadn't realized (until after receiving your response, immediately above) that the cat userbox was of your own making, with its source code in-line at your user page. So, in this case, it seems you had to update the source in-situ, although I don't understand why: I had assumed that the userbox template would automatically pick up the 'Preferences' setting, no matter what.
How intriguing, also, that the same userboxes (in French or other languages) pick up the gender set in 'Preferences' when they are nested in the 'Babel' userbox group, but not when they are positioned outside of it; unfortunately, I don't know enough about the inner workings of Wikipedia code to understand or explain why that would be.
Perhaps (again: if/when you have the time and inclination), it might be worth considering asking one of those friendly editors from the Help team (using the {{Help me}} template), to elucidate why the gender option selected in 'Preferences' is not always picked up in userboxes, in these two cases.
I will contact you again in a few days' time, when I've returned from my mini-break.
Until then, please keep well and joyful;
With kindest regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 12:23, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Get well soon! ;-))

Get well soon!...
Dear Natalie,
I am sorry to learn that you've had the sniffles (9 days ago); so, I am sending you a batch of these , along with my very best wishes for a prompt and complete recovery.
I am still on wikibreak, with lots to do in real life (while also coming here occasionally to improve the article on Slim Gaillard, which has been in an unbearably sorry state for too long!)
When I've returned to full service – and obviously on your return to good health too – we can resume where we left off, both with your request of my joining your GA review, and then also with our fun mini-project on Quebec French, whenever you feel like it.

Until then, please take it easy, and get well soon!
With kindest regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 14:58, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

@Pdebee: What a lovely get-well greeting! We Canadians can get over these colds quite quickly; I guess our immune system has been primed over time. I hope your break is as pleasant as you wish. Funny, whenever a Wikipedian refers to 'real life', I think of the Buddha's wisdom that life is an illusion. So that would make Wikipedia imbued with 'real life' then, since 'real life' is an illusion; I mean, 'real life' has to exist somewhere. . Hm, perhaps something doesn't jive here... Alas, ...must be the remnants of that cold. Indeed, it would be great if you could join the GA review when time permits. Let me know if you've found my small additions to the mini-project on Quebec French useful, at your convenience of course. very best wishes, Natalie Natalie.Desautels (talk) 13:06, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
Dear Natalie,
Thank you for your kind reply. I am glad to learn you've recovered quickly. I sometimes get chest infections which linger for weeks and months and I have now been receiving the yearly flu jab in the autumn, for the last few years. I hope your recovery will be a full one before too long.
Yes, I've taken to using that Wikipedism about 'real life', as it comes with the territory, I suppose. I agree with the concept that our connection with reality is in the 'here and now', another great idea in Buddhism. So, to me, 'real life' currently is here, as I am writing these words to you, with each character I type.
Yes, thank so much once again for your wonderful help about those two words you explained at our special page. I remember sending you an acknowledgement at the time, but maybe I put it somewhere that made it difficult to see. Please forgive me if that's the case. I have several more of these québécisms in store and will resume this lovely project once I've returned in earnest. Thank you for your kind and patient assistance; you have no idea how thrilled I remain that you agreed to help me with this project, time permitting, of course.
I have done some occasional editing on the Slim Gaillard article during the last few days, and am now reasonably happy with the section on his early life. Much more left to do, though. But I am sure I'll find time to help with your GA review when I return for good, probably early next week (although only for a couple of days, as I have other, pending solicitations away from Wikipedia in the weeks to come. So, dear Natalie, thank you for your continued patience.
With kindest regards for now; get fully well very soon!
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 14:26, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Elsa Peretti page

Hello, thank you for putting your time and energy in this page. I am trying to fix it so that the alerts can be removed. I would greatly appreciate it if you could help me achieve this goal. Thank you very much, Marco La PeraNPF-webmaster (talk) 16:37, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

@NPF-webmaster and Checkingfax: Hello @NPF-webmaster:, Your most welcome; ...it was little really. I just cleaned up the page with some Wikipedia tools I like. A good person to contact for some advice is Checkingfax, who I pinged above, and who has much more experience than I do. For starters, I would say that it's best for a neutral party to contribute to the article; someone too close to the organization may be construed as promotional and all those unwanted tags appear. Let me know when the English article is more advanced, and perhaps I can find the time to translate it into at least French and Spanish.
Regarding the tag "This biographical article needs additional citations for verification", it shouldn't be difficult to find lots of newspaper sources on Elsa Peretti; again, I can help with translation if need be. About the tag "promotes the subject in a subjective manner without imparting real information", as it reads now, I feel that the information imparted is factual, real, interesting and of value. Perhaps you should address the editor who put up this tag. User:Ebyabe toned down the article considerably, so perhaps you could continue to work with him. very best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 09:19, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Teamwork Barnstar
Thank you for your spot-on efforts to improve the Planned Parenthood article directly resulting in its promotion to Good Article status. {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 04:39, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Here is a userbox to paste onto your user page if you wish: {{User Good Article|Planned Parenthood}} — Preceding unsigned comment added by Checkingfax (talk • contribs) 04:44, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Congratulations, Natalie! This is richly deserved, very well done!
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 09:03, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
@Checkingfax and Pdebee: What a pleasant surprise! Thank you kindly. best regards ...je vous remercie infiniment. Sincères salutations, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 10:02, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Welcoming a new joiner.

Dear Natalie,
In haste (I'm still on Wikibreak), I hope you won't mind if I ask that you consider welcoming BohemianMaid, who joined today? She is also from Canada and approached me about an edit I reverted earlier today. Our full exchange is here.
Please know that I am not asking you to consider doing any more than making her feel welcome; like adding the 'Welcome' template on her talk page, etc.
The topic she raised at my talk page will require additional actions on her and other editors interested in the article about Acadians, and who have it on their watchlist; I am definitely not assuming that you are one such editor and am not expecting you to get involved in the discussion (unless you really want to, of course).
In essence, I am concerned that a new joiner be made to feel as welcome as possible, but it's late here and I must sign off.
Thank you very much for understanding and for welcoming her if you can. If not, then that's fine too; at least we will have tried.
With kindest regards for now;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 23:52, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
PS: I will have a small amount of time tomorrow, but not much; then, I won't have any time at all until the middle of next week. Encore mille mercis pour votre indulgence.

@Pdebee: Hi there. I took the pleasure in welcoming new user BohemianMaid. The Acadians was certainly interesting; mille merci pour le tuyau intéressant. à bientôt, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 06:59, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
Chère Natalie,
Un tout grand merci pour votre gentillesse et aussi pour votre promptitude à bien accueilir une nouvelle collaboratrice; je pense que nous avons fait l'essentiel pour l'encourager; donc, espérons qu'elle nous réponde et aussi qu'elle nous rejoigne pour de bon.
Je vous souhaite une excellente journée, et vous re-contacterai la semaine prochaine. En attendant ce plaisir, je vous envoie mille amitiés!
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 09:58, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Chaplin

Hi,

Just wanted to say don't worry about the Chaplin thing, no harm done, we all make mistakes sometimes! And thanks for the lovely barn star! :) TrueHeartSusie3 (talk) 00:10, 20 March 2016 (UTC)TrueHeartSusie3

@TrueHeartSusie3: Indeed, to err is human . Thank you for your kind understanding. best wishes, Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 09:12, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

Trouble finding references? The Wikipedia Library is proud to announce ...

The Wikipedia Library

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Natalie, this one is probably right up your alley. The Wikipedia Library has added several new libraries this past week and now have over 50 available. I am coordinating three of them. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 07:23, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

You've got mail

Hello, Natalie.Desautels. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.— {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 08:49, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

You've got mail

Hello, Natalie.Desautels. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.— {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 09:33, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

What

FYI. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 16:59, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification. .. will remedied within the hour. I actually did some proactive work in Commons on this; I sent the Open-source Ticket Request System ("OTRS") for two .flac files with solid copyright permissions and "all rights waived" duly in place" and was further reassured by an admin, alas, ...only to be visited by a Bot which did what bots do (they don't know how to read ; it deleted the two files. ...soon be in order. PS. I've been unusually busy here with some emergency translation work outside of Wikipedia. The film industry here in Quebec cannot release any films unless there is a French overdub, and the entire process starts with a translation. There was some union problem and they asked me to help out. It is interesting work, though I far prefer Wikipedia. It's a delicate situation here in Quebec when it comes to language. A store owner is allowed to greet you in both French and "a language of his choice" (guess which one . So if he greets a customer as "Bonjour / Hello" then all is fine. If he says "Hello / Bonjour" (English first), he might get a $1500 fine and there is no joy in Mudville. ...sounds strange but it happens often. Natalie --Natalie.Desautels (talk) 17:25, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
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