User talk:Nroth82

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Hello, Nroth82, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, like Maritz, sales and marketing services company, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for page creation, and may soon be deleted.

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There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! MuffledThud (talk) 16:28, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion nomination of Maritz, sales and marketing services company[edit]

A tag has been placed on Maritz, sales and marketing services company, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the guidelines on spam as well as Wikipedia:FAQ/Business for more information. You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. MuffledThud (talk) 16:28, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{help me}} - I need the title of my article to be changed. The company I wrote about is Maritz, but Wikipedia wouldn't allow me to have it because Maritz was used in other topics on other articles. Instead of the title being Maritz, marketing and services company I need the article to just be called Maritz. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nroth82 (talk • contribs)

Hello. Unfortunately, the article has been deleted, so there's no way of moving it. Sorry, m.o.p 16:44, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Further to m.o.p's reply, the reason why you couldn't use the title "Maritz" is because the current article Maritz is a disambiguation page - linking to pages which the user may be looking for. None of the current entries on that page (Paul Maritz and Maritz Rebellion) are counted as generally being known as "Maritz" (on a global scale, as Wikipedia is a global encyclopedia). The "Maritz Marketing and Services Company" would likewise not been known globally as "Maritz", so should a suitable article be recreated, it would be called "Maritz Marketing and Services Company", and a link could be provided on the "Maritz" page. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 16:59, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The administrator who deleted your article was User:DGG. The article can be undeleted and moved to a subpage of your user page while you're working on it, so I'd suggest you request this at DGG's talk page. By the way, are you by any chance Nick Roth, Communications Specialist at Maritz? If so, then please have a read of WP:COI. Thanks, MuffledThud (talk) 16:55, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In response to the above, MuffleThud, yes I am Nick Roth and I do work at Maritz, however I still do not see how this article is advertising nor do I see how it differs from a JD Power & Associates page. Also, I highly doubt every page on Wiki is done by people outside of business organizations. To PhantomSteve, I still have a copy in my drafts so I can work from there but Maritz is currently in the US, Canada, and Europe and is recognized solely by the name Maritz on a worldwide scale. Please advise as to what would have to be changed to NOT be considered advertising.

The primary issue is that you have a prominent conflict of interest in relation to the subject matter. m.o.p 17:21, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

From your COI page: "Conflict of interest is not a reason to delete an article"— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nroth82 (talk • contribs)

That's true, but it's a good reason for you not to re-create it. MuffledThud (talk) 17:28, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

May I suggest that before you work on the article again, it might be a good idea to read some of the policies which Wikipedia uses to determine whether articles should be in Wikipedia:

Wikipedia:Notability - the general guidelines on notability. The basic criteria is If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article.
Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) - extra guidelines (alongside the general ones) about notability for companies
Wikipedia:Verifiability - guidelines about making sure that information can be verified independently
Wikipedia:Reliable sources - guidelines about the kinds of sources which Wikipedia prefers
Wikipedia:Independent sources - guidelines about the kinds of sources which Wikipedia regards as being independent of the subject
Wikipedia:Spam#How not to be a spammer - advise on how to make sure that your article isn't seen as advertising! As you know from personal experience, such articles can get deleted very quickly. However 'Some people spam Wikipedia without meaning to. That is, they do things which Wikipedians consider to be spamming, without realizing that their actions are not in line with building an encyclopedia. - this guide will help you!

If you have any further questions, feel free to leave a question on this page, or contact one of the editors who has left a message here (either by clicking on MuffledThud's "talk" link, or on m.o.p's name, or clicking on my "Contact Me" link). Alternatively, you can use the {{helpme}} tag, or leave a question at the Help Desk. Regards, -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 17:30, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

With regard to an article about your company being the primary subject for "Maritz", I would venture to suggest that if we chose a random sample of 1000 people from US, Canada, and Europe and asked them what "Maritz" means to them, the majority would say "nothing" - they would not say your company. This is the kind of guideline which would tell us the primary topic. For example, if you asked 1000 people from US, Canada, Europe and Australia what "Abraham Lincoln" means to them, I would venture to suggest that the vast majority of them would say "The American president" - I don't think many of them would say "the ship" or "the president's grandfather" or "the president's grandson", or any of the other possibilities shown at Abraham Lincoln (disambiguation). -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 17:37, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Steve, that may be true, however when the company's name is Maritz, I would hope that when someone searched for Maritz it could be in that list with Paul and the Rebellion with the description of a sales and marekting services company. Right now it is a mute point but just is something to cross later down the line. Question for all: If I go and rework the article for Maritz, will it still be quickly deleted because of my affiliation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nroth82 (talk • contribs)

As you yourself quoted from our guideline, COI is not by itself a sufficient reason to delete an article. However, the draft in your userspace still blatantly reads like a puff piece created by someone with intimate knowledge of the company. The reason why COI editing is discouraged is simply because it inhibits neutral writing. GlassCobra 17:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If the article is created in the main encyclopedia, an entry can be added to the Maritz page to link to it, just as it links to the other two articles. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 18:29, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

PS: when you leave a message on a talk page (never an article), to add your signature (your user name and the date/time) just add ~~~~ after your comment. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 18:29, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please give me a detailed explanation of what you consider "puff" in this piece. We worked hard to make it neutral tone with viable 3rd party sources. Also, I would still like an explanation as to how our piece that was rejected differs from the JD Power and Associates story. Thank you for your feedback.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nroth82 (talk • contribs)

One example: Today, under the leadership of Steve Maritz, chairman and CEO, Maritz helps companies achieve their full potential through understanding, enabling, and motivating employees, channel partners, and customers. - and the general tone is like an advertising brochure for potential customers of the company. Your references are a start - but none of the facts in the article are referenced. Readers of an article should not have to read through the references to see what bit of which references refers to which part of the article.

My main problem about Maritz is that I can't find much mention in the news. Google News has 151 hits, but not all of those are about your company (quite a few are about VMware's Chief Executive Paul Maritz), and most of those that are about it are simply press releases - and of course, they are not independent coverage, as the press release comes from your company. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 18:39, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

One other example of advertising/puff: "As a company, Maritz values these relationships..." How would one know this unless they have intimate knowledge of the company, as I stated earlier? GlassCobra 19:09, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Further thoughts about your references:

MSNBC "Business travel pitched as economic engine": bit about Maritz says Christine Duffy, president and CEO of Maritz Travel Co., a corporate meeting organizer, said meetings are a tool for keeping "employees engaged and motivated." "Sales and marketing executives know they have to get back in front of their people," she said. - not a very significant piece of coverage
REUTERS "Corporate Meetings and Events Step Into the Next Realm -- Total Virtual Environments": This is from a joint Press Release from InXpo and Maritz: Not independent coverage
MEETING MAGAZINES "The Dilemma: Face-to-Face and/or Virtual": I have corrected the link (it shouldn't have a trailing '/' on the web address!): This is an article by Chris Gaia, the vice president of marketing at Maritz Travel - not an independent source
MEETINGS REVIEW: "American Express & Maritz Travel to launch alliance" - I have corrected the link (it shouldn't have a trailing '/' on the web address!) and the title: This appears to be formed from a Press Release from your company - so not an independent source
AUTO REMARKETING MAGAZINE: "Customer Satisfaction can make or break domestic dealers" - this is reporting the research done - I'm not sure if this would be counted as significant, or independent enough - the only "fact" that I found that I thought would help this article was The group, which conducts customer satisfaction research for nearly three out of every four vehicles sold in the United States, recently analyzed its domestic dealership customer satisfaction data from the past three years. I notice that there's a lot of "According to [Maritz]..." - with no independent verification of the facts mentioned in the article. This would indicate to me that the article may not be totally independent, as they didn't consult any other "domestic dealership customer satisfaction data" analysts, so it's not totally neutral - if there was mention of another study that either agreed or disagreed with your findings, I'd be more inclined to trust this article as being neutral
MEETINGS REVIEW: "Martiz, Freeman Announce Meetings Industry Alliance": I have corrected the link (again, it shouldn't have a trailing '/' on the web address!): This again appears to be based on a joint Press Release - which is not an independent, neutral source of information.

In summary, all of these seem to lack independent, neutral coverage of the company. Unless much better references can be found (has there never been mentions in the New York Times, Washington Post, London Times, London Financial Times, or other world-reknown newspapers?) I cannot see that the notability of the company has been demonstrated.

I would encourage you to carefully read the guidelines that I linked to above - they will show you what you need to provide to show the notability of the company, because I could not find anything when I looked. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 19:07, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{help me}} I have gone back and edited the article for Maritz. I have taken out the "advertising fluff" and have referenced third party sources for verifiability and notability. Please consider this article for publication. Also, if using the term "Maritz" (our company name) alone for searchability is not possible, if the page could be published under Maritz, L.L.C. Thank you and I look forward to your feedback.

One comment after taking a quick glance; the statement about partnering with most fortune 500 companies is problematic, one because the list on the site is only sixty, nowhere near 500, and two because the source is at the companies website, meaning it is not a reliable, third-party source. Beach drifter (talk) 19:38, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your feedback.  I have removed that section from the page.  How does it look now?

We should not list the page as Maritz LLC because that is not part of our naming conventions, it will still appear in searches. Also, I can only recommend finding more sources. fetchcomms☛ 21:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fetch, I would prefer it to just be listed as Maritz because that is truly the company name, however, I understand about the unambiguous naming convention wiki has.

@PhantomSteve, Have you had a chance to look at this article for approval? I added in another source from the NYT to help with notability. Please let me know if this article will be approved. Thanks.

{{adminhelp}} I am hoping an admin can look at/approve this article for posting. It has been an "unreviewed" article for about 2-3 weeks now. Thanks.

I think you mean this draft article. I am going to leave this up for others to view, although it does not need to be "adminhelp". From my reading, this article does not establish notability, it reads as 110% promotional, and could not stand as a Wikipedia article. I do not see any real redeeming qualities - other than attempts to make it fit the guidelines and references. My first concern was WP:COI - why would someone go to the trouble? (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:27, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree with Bwilkins. Articles about companies are always difficult to get the correct balance, neutrality, and notability that is required. It may well be a good start - you might like to consider placing what you have done so far at articles for creation, where an experienced and unbiased editor will take your data and lay it out in the standard style (if possible), or will tell you what is lacking. Ronhjones ^(Talk) 20:46, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry I must disagree at the strictly promotional. This is all attributed to independent third party sources and I would like to know this difference between this article and the article posted for JD Power and Associates. Similar references and content type. Wikipedia member PhantomSteve a couple weeks ago mentioned that this article was on track to what Wikipedia requires, but have not heard from him in a while. I would just like to know how this is consider promotional. It is information about a company...ANY company page then is considered promotional on Wiki.

Talkback[edit]

Hello, Nroth82. You have new messages at MWOAP's talk page.
Message added 21:32, 18 February 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

-- /MWOAP|Notify Me\ 21:32, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation[edit]

Your nomination at Articles for Creation was a success, and Maritz, LLC was created.

The article has been assessed as Start-Class, which is recorded on the article's talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see what needs to be done to bring it to the next level.
Please continue making quality contributions to Wikipedia. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request.
If you would to help us improve this process, please consider leaving us some feedback.

Thank you for helping Wikipedia! CrimsonBlue (talk) 03:54, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback[edit]

Hello, Nroth82. You have new messages at MWOAP's talk page.
Message added 02:16, 20 February 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.[reply]

-- /MWOAP|Notify Me\ 02:16, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

MfD nomination of User:Nroth82/Maritz LLC[edit]

User:Nroth82/Maritz LLC, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Nroth82/Maritz LLC and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Nroth82/Maritz LLC during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Whpq (talk) 19:56, 12 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]