Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1907–08 New Brompton F.C. season/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 11 March 2024 [1].

1907–08 New Brompton F.C. season[edit]

Nominator(s): ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:43, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

OK, here's the deal, everyone. I tried really really hard to come up with a different type of article to bring to FAC, honest I did, but for whatever reason I just couldn't get enthused, so I am afraid you get yet another article on a season in the history of Gillingham F.C. In this particular season the team (still under the original club name of New Brompton) started the campaign with the heaviest defeat in the club's history to this point, recovered to be roughly in the middle of the league table at the midpoint of the season, and then collapsed utterly in the second half, losing almost every game and finishing dead last, after which almost every player left the club. Along the way a player had to be restrained by the police from attacking fans who threw mud at him. Oh, and somehow in the FA Cup they managed to achieve the club's greatest victory to date. Feedback as ever will be most gratefully received and swiftly acted upon -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:43, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Pseud 14[edit]

  • winning 11, drawing 8 and losing 23 -- I see you've used the serial comma in the body. Might need adding here for consistency.
  • the match finished 9–1 to the home team, the highest number of goals New Brompton had conceded in a competitive match in the club's history. -- I think this is better as a separate sentence.
  • Against Swindon Town in the first match of October a forward called Barker made his debut in place of Pickering and Fred Mavin -- comma after October
  • I recently learned this from another review, I noticed that the reporter mentioned at least five times, if there is no name that can be attributed, I believe we should not use a definite article, so it should be a reporter from. Also to avoid being repetitive, perhaps use some variation i.e. a writer or a journalist from...
  • The final game of the season was took place on 25 April -- the final game of the season took place
  • At this stage of the competition they were drawn to play -- comma after competition
  • and forced to leave the game inside the first ten minutes -- Perhaps it should be: in the first ten minutes or ten minutes into the game
  • Optional: Perhaps equaliser should be wikilinked
  • Martin made, the most, -- I think the first comma should be dropped
  • In the case of the former player it was his only appearance for the New Brompton first team. -- comma after player
  • That's all from me. Great works as ever. Pseud 14 (talk) 00:50, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Pseud 14: - many thanks for taking the time to review the article. All points addressed, I think! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:16, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks good. Support on prose. Also, if you happen to have the luxury of time and interest, would appreciate feedback on my current FAC. Hope all is well. Pseud 14 (talk) 16:42, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Teratix[edit]

  • the heaviest defeat in the club's history to date this reads like it's the heaviest defeat Gillingham has ever suffered, but I think all you mean is that it was the heaviest defeat suffered up to that time? I'd replace "to date" with something less ambiguous.
  • the team were in 6th place out of 20 teams in the league table in mid-November is there a particular significance to this point in the season? I understand highlighting the team's standing at the end of December, as that's the end of the year and around the season's halfway point, but this is a bit more cryptic to me. Was 6th perhaps their peak placing for the season?
    • Not sure if you saw this?
      • As far as I can work out it was their peak position, but short of ref-bombing it with their position after every single game I don't know how to address this. I do feel that it's worth noting that they climbed as high as 6th before falling away by Christmas, but not sure how to proceed. Take it out of the lead altogether but leave it mentioned at the appropriate point in the body (i.e. after the third of the three straight wins).......?
        • No, if it's there because you've worked out it was their peak position, that's OK, you don't need to take it out. I was just wondering why it was there in the first place, because the mid-November timeframe seemed a bit arbitrary.
  • which was seen as the greatest win in the club's history to date "to date" is not as ambiguous as it is in that first instance, but it's still not ideal
  • In the preceding eight seasons I'd split this sentence in two
  • Simmons of The Sporting Life wrote that New Brompton "always appear[ed] to be struggling against an adverse fate" is this a general reflection on the club or a particular reflection on last season?
    • The wording is quite vague but it doesn't seem to refer solely to the previous season
  • all left after a single season anything known about why all three left at once? Was this unusual or normal for the time?
    • I don't have any sources that say anything specific on this. At the time players were only contracted to a club for one season at a time so three players leaving at once was not unusual and it was probably just coincidence that they has all only been there for a year
      • Fair enough, just inquiring.
  • had to continue with a reduced number of players → "fewer players"
  • would tie as the largest in front of which New Brompton played during the season awkwardly worded
    • Still needs some work.
      • Had another go
  • a forward called Barker made his debut in place of Pickering and Fred Mavin, a half-back who had been a regular in the previous two seasons, made his first appearance this jarred on a first look, it initially reads as if Barker is replacing both Pickering and Mavin before you reach "made".
  • saying that he had given spectators ... that "few wing men in the country could have equalled his placing drop "that" x2
    • I believe the second "that" is needed for the sentence to be grammatically correct
      • Eh, might be a BrE thing. Not terribly important.
  • A week after Marriott scored the team's first hat-trick of the season, McGibbon repeated the feat doesn't make sense to talk of McGibbon repeating the feat if someone else performed it the first time.
  • who were in 20th and last place in the league table why not just "who were in last place"?
  • another team near the foot I think the implied first near-bottom team is Leyton, but they were not "near the foot of the table" – they were at it.
    • Not sure if you saw this?
      • I changed it to "a team below them in the table" which I think covers all bases
  • Smith made what would prove to be his final appearance why didn't Smith play any of the remaining matches, especially considering he was the player-manager?
    • I don't have any sources to confirm that. The full-length book about Smith's life mentions that game and then in a very perfunctory manner says something like "it turned out to be the last game he played". He may have been injured, but I can't confirm that
      • OK.
  • Cunliffe, who had left New Brompton at the start of the season, scored both goals ouch!
  • The result meant that New Brompton drop "that"
    • Not sure if you saw this?
      • In British English either is valid and I think the use of "that" would probably be preferred by linguistic purists but I have changed it anyway
  • generated significant interest, resulting in a new record attendance for the ground "generated significant interest" is a bit vague and I'm not sure it really adds any information to the article. Why not just "drew a record attendance for the ground" (not "new record", redundant) and let readers infer the match must have generated a lot of interest?
  • The Daily Telegraph noted that New Brompton were of "very ordinary ability" and that they would need drop "that" x2
  • set another new attendance record drop "new"
  • and late in the game the First Division team scored a second goal I think your inner Gillingham fan slips out a little bit here, highlighting City's First Division status feels a little bit defensive – the subtext seems to be "sure, we lost, but they were in another league to us and we'd done well to hold them off for this long!"
  • Is there some reason the "Results" header in cup matches is not a table caption, like every other table in the article has?
  • 21 players made at least one appearance for New Brompton → "21 players appeared for New Brompton"
  • fewer than five appearances of whom two comma after appearances?
  • In the case of the latter player, it was his only appearance → "it was McLachlan's only appearance"
    • Follow-up: "McLachlan's one appearance" → "McLachlan's appearance"
  • Eleven players scored at least one goal for the team → "Eleven players scored for the team"
  • The Aftermath section feels a bit thin – I would expect people to have more to say about the team's worst season in its history to that point. Any insights into why the team was so weak?
    • I searched all available newspaper sources and didn't really find any commentary on why the team had been so bloody awful in the second half of the season
      • Hmm, OK.
  • New Brompton were reprieved from relegation to Division Two why?
    • Relegation was not automatic but voted on by the other clubs
      • Was it unusual for teams to be reprieved? Was there a particular reason they were saved in this case?
  • Smith left the club, choosing to retire from professional football For sheer age or another reason?
    • Sources don't say. Presumably age, as he was 34 and that was old for a footballer in that era, but no source explicitly confirms it
      • Alright
  • the playing squad was almost completely overhauled Because they'd performed so badly or were there other reasons?
    • Sources don't explicitly say, I'm afraid. The closest I could find was an article stating that "it is not surprising that the directors decided to make extensive changes to the New Brompton team", which wouldn't really add anything to the article IMO
      • Fair enough!
  • That's all from me. – Teratix ₵ 14:29, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Teratix: - thanks for your review. All points addressed other than as noted above -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:02, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have to say this article left me with more questions than answers at times – but I totally understand that when we're talking about a football season from more than a century ago, some things are just going to be lost to history, and there's only so much you can do when the sources you're relying on aren't talking. Just had a last follow-up on relegation but that's about it. – Teratix ₵ 15:18, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        • @Teratix: - I added a chunk more which hopefully explains the situation..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:39, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
          • The relegation chunk is all good and very helpful for explanation – I just had a last look-over and there were a couple of points from the original review you might have missed, and a couple you've had a pass at addressing but need just a little more work in my view. – Teratix ₵ 16:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
            • OK, all looks good: support, for real this time! – Teratix ₵ 05:04, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
SC
  • Comments to follow. - SchroCat (talk) 13:05, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, no comments after a read through this evening. Straight to support from me. - SchroCat (talk) 22:14, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Wehwalt[edit]

To follow hopefully Tuesday or Wednesday, time permitting.--Wehwalt (talk) 02:36, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is it worth mentioning in the first paragraph of background, that New Brompton was based in the South of England? It may not be obvious.
  • "Corp of Royal Engineers" Corps, perhaps?
  • " They repeatedly attacked the Manchester City goal in the second half but could not score, and late in the game City scored a second goal and went on to win 2–1 and eliminate New Brompton from the competition." too many ands.
That's it.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:35, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Wehwalt: - thanks for your review. Points 2 and 3 are addressed. Re: point 1, I am struggling to see how to elegantly work that into the prose, but I moved another sentence to an earlier point which may cover this off, at least by implication.....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. Support.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:09, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Eem dik doun in toene[edit]

  • "Charlie McGibbon was the club's top goalscorer with 22 goals" ==> you could indicate he scored 14 in the league and 22 in all competitions
  • In infobox: "Lowest home attendance 2,000 vs Crystal Palace (15 February 1908)" ==> Gillingham also played Swindon in front of 2k fans at Priestfield Road
  • "victory.[12][47] After that victory" ==> twice "victory" in a short span, maybe replace one of them with "win" (or something like that)?
  • "they were drawn to play Sunderland of the Football League First Division" ==> you could indicate that this First Division was the top flight of the English football pyramid. Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 19:06, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Eem dik doun in toene: - thanks for your review, all addressed! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:09, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nice work! Support - Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 20:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image and source review[edit]

Is the kit sourced somewhere? The licence of File:First match at White Hart Lane - Spurs vs Notts County 1899.jpg seems OK but do we know when Bob Goodwin lived? The ALT text does not seem to add much to the information in the caption. Image placement seems OK. Source-wise, reviewing this version and spot-checking upon request. With these local newspapers, I always must wonder if they are high-quality reliable sources - from what I know, the British press doesn't have the best reputation either today or in the late 19th century. You sure that "citizen" in #38 is the author? I don't know much about the books cited but nothing jumps out to me as inappropriate. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 10:00, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: - the kit is sourced in the last sentence of the "Background and pre-season" section. Re: "the British press doesn't have the best reputation", this seems like a bit of a generalisation. Yes, there are some newspapers which have a less than stellar reputation, but I would never use any of them. I am confident that the papers which are used as refs in this article are/were well-regarded (The Observer, Telegraph, etc, are broadsheet papers comparable to The Times) and I have no reason to believe that they would not be considered reliable sources for sports reporting. Bob Goodwin is the author of the book from which an editor scanned the Tottenham image. He isn't the person who actually took the photo in 1899. Hope all of this helps! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:28, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Jo-Jo Eumerus: can I quickly check if you need anything further from me on this? Thanks! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:49, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, not really. I throw my usual caveat about not having run a spotcheck, though. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 13:05, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Co-ordinators query[edit]

@FAC coordinators: - with this one at the position it is, may I nominate another article? Amazingly it's not about New Brompton/Gillingham F.C.!!!!!!!!!! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 14:29, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In which case I shall say "yes" as I am agog to see what else could be worthy of such an honour. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:09, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comments[edit]

  • Davies should be before Eligate.
  • Davies is the only book for which you give a publisher location. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:57, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gog the Mild: - I moved Davies and for consistency removed the location (I don't think locations are mandatory) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:17, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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