Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1964 European Nations' Cup Final/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 9 August 2021 [1].

1964 European Nations' Cup Final[edit]

Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:57, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, as we head toward the final of the UEFA Euro 2020 tournament, there's no better time to take a look back at the "good old days" of the Soviet Union, the involvement of Franco and Khrushchev, and all overseen by an Englishman. Proper pre-Brexit "soccer" fare for one and all. As always, I will be delighted to address any constructive comments as soon as practicable, and thank you in advance for your time and energy. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:57, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review[edit]

  • Image licensing looks OK (t · c) buidhe 21:39, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks buidhe. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 21:44, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Commments from valereee[edit]

In the 2nd para of the lead: The referee for the final was Arthur Holland from England and the match was played in front of an attendance of 79,115 spectators. It's a run-on as is, and maybe just needs to be recast into two sentences as they aren't really related. Probably attendance > audience or possibly crowd if the reason for choosing audience was to avoid too-close para? —valereee (talk) 18:19, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 18:25, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Well, in so far as we never call attendance at football match an "audience". And actually, of course the sentences are related, both being about the final. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 18:30, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Same para: With six minutes of the match remaining, Pereda beat Anichkin and played in a cross which Viktor Shustikov failed to clear, before Marcelino headed the winning goal inside the near post. I feel like the comma in the section I've bolded is an awkward choice. Maybe recast? —valereee (talk) 18:24, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't agree, when I read it out loud, the comma there makes a good, natural pause. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 18:26, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from ChrisTheDude[edit]

Comments
  • "It was the second UEFA European Football Championship final" - technically it was the second European Nations' Cup final. Can it be reworded to something like "the second final of what is now called the UEFA European Football Championship"?
  • "the previous tournament winners Soviet Union" => "the previous tournament winners the Soviet Union."
  • "crossed for Chus Pereda who scored, to give Spain a 1–0 lead" => "crossed for Chus Pereda, who scored to give Spain a 1–0 lead"
  • "the semi-finals and final taking place in Spain, between 17 and 21 June 1964" - that comma kinda makes it read like everything up to that point took place in that five day period. Any way to reword?
  • "The home side took an early 2–0 with goals" => "The home side took an early 2–0 lead with goals"
  • "Spain's semi-final opposition were Hungary, who they faced" => "Spain's semi-final opposition were Hungary, whom they faced"
  • Luis Suárez was playing? Wow, he's much older than I thought :-D
  • "Amancio diverted into the Hungary goal" => "Amancio diverted it/the ball into the Hungary goal"
  • "took the ball past Eduard Mudrik and after making a one-two with Lapetra, before crossing for Pereda" - this doesn't seem to be gramatically correct
  • "after suffering defeat against West Germany and Argentina and failed to progress" => "after suffering defeat against West Germany and Argentina and failing to progress"
  • That's what I got :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:33, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
ChrisTheDude thanks for your comments, I've had a shot at addressing them all, let me know what you think and if you have anything else I need to address. Re: Suarez, yes I was going to use that as a quirky DYK but felt the Franco/Khrushchev angle was more encyclopedic! Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:54, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Lirim.Z[edit]

  • "The match was contested by Spain and the previous tournament winners the Soviet Union." Isn't there a comma missing between winners and the? "tournament winners, the Soviet Union."
  • "There they faced Northern Ireland, with the first leg taking place at the" -> comma after there
  • MOS:Caps No need to write Euro's in all caps in the references
  • Looks really good!--Lirim | Talk 07:25, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Lirim.Z hi, and thanks for your comments! I think I've addressed them all, please let me know if there's anything else I can do? Many thanks. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 08:07, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Read through it again and couldn't find any flaws. Great article. Lirim | Talk 20:01, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Amakuru[edit]

  • "UEFA's top football competition for national teams" - sort of obvious I suppose, but should this be cited? And is "top" a proper encyclopedic adjective in this context?
  • "Spain had refused to play against the Soviet Union in the quarter-final" - Easter Egg link, should probably have "the quarter-final" as the link text.
  • Route to the final tables - the scores are wrapping in an annoying fashion, with just the final (H) or (A) on a new line. Either wrap the whole second leg, or widen the column so that it fits on one line.
  • "where they faced Romania" - prefer "in which"
  • "There, they faced Northern Ireland" - similar thing, I know you can use this type of wording but it still sounds slightly wrong to treat a round of the competition as a location
  • "Their goalkeeper, Bobby Irvine..." - might be useful to say "Northern Ireland's" as the last "they" you mentioned was Spain
  • "Bobby Irvine, twice denied Amancio Amaro before he opened the scoring..." at first I read this as Bobby Irvine opening the scoring.
  • "Marcelino scored his side's fifth goal after taking a deflection off Hurley" - sort of sounds like Marcelino himself deflected off Hurley here, rather than the ball being deflected
  • "it was to no avail" - sounds a bit like an WP:IDIOM
  • "10 yards (9.1 m)" - too precise
  • "the final tournament which they themselves would host" - was this as a result of their being in the event themselves, or was it preordained? (The background section could probably have covered that aspect in brief).
    Well all sources say that Spain were the hosts of the final tournament. They don't say when this was made official or why. That is already noted in the Background section. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 05:43, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Chipping in momentarily just to say that all the tournaments held under the original format (only four teams qualified) were hosted by one of the final four, so we can presume that the host nation was only decided once it was known who had qualified (either that or it's a monumental coincidence :-D). But I'm afraid I can't shed any light on what the actual selection process was. So not really any help, I'm afraid, but I just thought I would point that out for info :-D -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 06:03, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Soviet Union's European Nations' Cup campaign saw them receive a bye in the preliminary round" - why was that?
    Sources don't say why but it was presumably to get the odd number of entrants down to a binary number for knockout purposes. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 05:38, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and as such, their first match" - doesn't really need to say "as such" probably, could just say "and their first match..."
  • "The first competitive match between the sides took place at the Central Lenin Stadium in Moscow on 13 October 1963" - it sounds like you might be talking about some earlier match than the one in question here. Make it clear that this was the first competitive match
  • "There, they faced Sweden" - hmm, there again
  • "There they faced Denmark"
  • The summary feels very short compared to previous section - the final isn't described in much more detail than any of the other games. I guess you're going to tell me that's all the information your sources have though...
    Yes indeed. This was covered in scant detail in contemporary press, I have all the books I can find on the subject. If you can find anything I've missed, please point me to it. And to be fair, the previous section is covering 12 games with 37 goals and one period of extra time while this section covers 1 game, 3 goals... The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 05:43, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I did add some more detail from Kier's book which I had forgotten about (because I've been working on a couple of these) so hopefully that's beefed it up a little. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 06:02, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's about all for now. I'll have another look after you've taken a deco at this tranche.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:34, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Amakuru I've taken a stab at those, unless I've commented I've pretty much blindly followed your suggestions...! Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 05:38, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh, jolly good. That satisfies my concerns now, happy to support. Good work as ever.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:46, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review — Pass[edit]

  • #1: Contributors and last edited date can be added—see links on the left. Link not archived.
  • #37: Link not archived.
  • Bibliography: Publisher locations missing.

Boy, nothing much to see here. This version looked at. --Usernameunique (talk) 14:57, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Usernameunique hey, thanks for those comments all of which I have now addressed hopefully. Let me know if there's anything else I need to address. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 11:27, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. --Usernameunique (talk) 02:00, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Query for the coordinators[edit]

@FAC coordinators: with three supports and image/source review passing, can I nominate another article? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 10:42, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:47, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 13:53, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Z1720[edit]

Non-expert prose review.

  • "All but three of UEFA's team of the tournament had featured in the final, including six Spain and two Soviet Union players." What is a team of the tournament? Can there be a short description in the article?
  • I checked the lede and infobox to ensure the information was in the article and found no issues.

Excellent article. Just one issue to resolve. Z1720 (talk) 19:14, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Z1720 thanks very much. I am struggling to find anything more I can say, it's just like an MVP but a "best" team selected from all the the competing teams. There's nothing specific to say about it beyond that, and even that detail is not "verifiable" for the 1968 final, like it is for (say) the 2020 team. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:07, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Information that can't be verified shouldn't be added, so we'll just leave out that explanation. I also did a quick search and couldn't find any information explaining what it is. That was my only concern, so I support. Z1720 (talk) 15:16, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, much appreciated. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 16:48, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Coord note[edit]

Hi TRM, the match report link appears to show the players' numbers but not their positions on the field -- or did I miss something (entirely possible)? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:59, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ian Rose I added another UEFA ref which indicates (by inference) the positions shown, in the team listings toward the bottom of the source it shows the teams with semi-colons delineating between GK, DEF, MF and FW players. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 18:52, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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