Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1986–87 Gillingham F.C. season/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 9 August 2021 [1].

1986–87 Gillingham F.C. season[edit]

Nominator(s): ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:24, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a full and detailed account of the exploits of the English football (soccer) club Gillingham during the 1986-87 season. I was 14 years old at the time and followed the team's ups and downs with the passion which only a 14-year-old fan can exhibit :-) I actually created this article way back in 2011 but then didn't really touch it again until, inspired by the excellent work done by Kosack with current FAC nom 1921–22 Cardiff City F.C. season, I decided to expand this article and managed to take it from 2K to 58K. Your comments will be very gratefully received and acted upon as swiftly as possible...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:24, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Aoba47[edit]

Addressed comments

This is very outside of my comfort zone, but since I have worked with ChrisTheDude in the past, I would like to review this and at least try to broaden my Wikipedia horizons somewhat. Hopefully a completely unfamiliar perspective will be helpful. Please ping me in a week if for whatever reason I have not posted any comments. Have a great day! Aoba47 (talk) 05:17, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: - very much looking forward to your review! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:40, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would encourage you to add ALT text to the Tony Cascarino image. Aoba47 (talk) 23:41, 5 July 2021 (UTC) done[reply]
  • I have a clarification question about this sentence: Before the season began, a series of wranglings took place involving the club's board of directors. By "wranglings", are you referring to something specific for football or the more general meaning (i.e. dispute; disputation; quarreling)? There is not wrong with the current version, but if I am being honest, I do not think I have ever seen that word used, but that could just be a cultural thing as I am American. Is this a common word to use here? done - changed to "disputes"
  • For this part, and the club paid semi-professional club Welling United a fee, I think it may be helpful to add a link to the semi-professional sports articles for "semi-professional". It is probably obvious to most readers, but as someone who is not familiar with sports really at all, I was uncertain of what this meant. done
  • Throughout the article, I notice some minor spacing issues, which are mostly just additional space between the end of a sentence and the start of a new one. I have fixed some of these. I know this is a pain, but I'd look through the article to see if there are any other ones. I am not sure why these spacing issues happened in the first place. done - didn't spot any others
  • For this part, but failed to agree personal terms with Reading, I am not really sure what is meant by "agree personal terms", but again it could just a cultural difference. done - changed to "failed to agree a contract" - basically it means that he and Reading could not come to an agreement on the terms of his contract (presumably wages, etc)
  • Would a link for league table be beneficial? I believe the first time this is mentioned is here, left Gillingham in fifth place in the league table. done
  • I would link goal scorer on the first instance, especially since other positions like captain and winger get links. - not done - goal scorer is not a position, it just means a player who scores/scored a goal. Any player can be a goal scorer and potentially a team's top scorer. Quite early in one season in the 1970s, Mancester United's top scorer was their goalkeeper :-) Goal scorer redirects to attacker, which I personally think is debateable and potentially confusing......
  • In this part, due to heavy snow in the south of England, would it be beneficial to use a link to the Southern England article? done
  • For the Tony Cascarino image, I would add the year that it was taken for further context. done - couldn't narrow it down to a specific year, even though it's my own photo :-)
  • The Newspapers.com sources require a subscription to view the articles. I would recommend that you either take clippings of these sources, which do not require a subscription to view, or modify the citation to clarify that a subscription is required to view the source. done
  • I have a question about Citation 49 and Citation 71. They are both referencing books, but the full citations are put in the references section while the other books have the full citations in the bibliography section with the last name, publication year, and page number put in the references section. I would revise this two to match the others.
    • I've done one, but I can't format the other in the same way because I don't have a page ref (I only have access to the Google Books version, which doesn't show page numbers). How should I treat this one?
  • I would just have the last name and the publication year without the page number since it is not available. I have done that in past FACs without an issue. Aoba47 (talk) 20:19, 6 July 2021 (UTC) done[reply]
  • For Citation 71, I would hyphenate the ISBN number as you have done for the other ones too to be consistent. done
  • It is not required for a FAC, but I would encourage you to archive web citations (like citations 32 and 62) to avoid any future hassle. I do not think the Newspapers.com or Gale citations need to be archived.

I hope that my comments are helpful. Again, I am completely unfamiliar with this subject as I do not think I have watched any sports game all the way through. Despite that, I still found the article to be engaging and I did not have any trouble following the actual information. A majority of my comments are focused on the prose, with a few about the citations at the end. Once everything is addressed, I will be more than happy to support the FAC for promotion. If possible, I would greatly appreciate any feedback on my current FAC. I hope you are having a great start of your week! Aoba47 (talk) 01:31, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: - many thanks for your review! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:22, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Aoba47: - final point addressed :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:23, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for addressing everything and for your patience with the review. I support this FAC for promotion. I think you have done a wonderful job with the article. Everything is very clear and engaging even to someone like myself who is not really knowledgable about sports at all. If possible, I would greatly appreciate any help with my current FAC, but I understand if you do not have the time or interest. I am just glad that I could look at something outside of my comfort zone to at least try and help. Have a great week! Aoba47 (talk) 18:34, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: - many thanks for your support, and I will certainly endeavour to take a look at your FAC over the next few days -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:18, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you. I am just glad that I could help at least a little. Aoba47 (talk) 18:44, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from TRM[edit]

  • Both home and away kits are blue and white. What happened when they played away at teams like Carlisle? Is there a ref for those shirts by the way?
  • "voted back" could be link, I assume, to Re-election (Football League)?
  • "the play-offs for" link those.
  • 'and hope that two" well, that actually had to not win, not just Gillingham "hoped" they'd not win. You know what I mean, this just seems a little unecyclopedic.
  • "both rival teams", "two other teams" enigmatic, any reason?
  • "in the final." there's an article for that.
  • "replay at a neutral venue," link both replay and neutral venue.
  • "Gillingham also reached" Perhaps go back to "During the season" or something as we're firmly parked at the end following the previous para.
  • "the highest number of appearances" -> "the most appearances".
  • Cascarino scored 14 goals in 17 non-Division Three appearances? That's remarkable.
    • He was a legend, and no mistake :-)
  • "southern section" but the table says "Semi-final (southern region)" was it section or region?
  • "1986–87 season " put season inside the pipe.
  • All those suggestions I made for links, do them all in the main prose too.
  • "team gained promotion from the Fourth Division in 1974.[1] " maybe add "as runners-up"?
  • "In the preceding 12 seasons" preceding which season?
  • "and 1984–85 seasons" again, seasons inside pipe.
  • Apply that hereafter...
  • "Gillingham had finished fifth and missed out on promotion by two places." I wonder, it may be worth noting why fifth missed out on promotion that season yet fifth got them into the play-offs in the subject season...
    • I would say that is already covered by the bit that says "At the start of the season, the Football League had introduced a new play-off system, under which the teams which finished just below the automatic promotion places in the Second, Third, and Fourth Divisions would have the opportunity to compete for one further promotion place", no...?
  • Is "winding-up order" something all our English-speaking brethren understand?
  • "win the championship of the Second Division" curious phrasing, I'd just have said "win Second Division" or worst case "win the Second Division title"
  • "team warmed up for " touch colloquial, maybe "prepared"?
  • "for which Tottenham Hotspur of the First Division provided the opposition" -> "against First Division side Tottenham Hotspur".
  • Newport is an AFC btw.
  • "the Welsh team" many readers won't know Newport is in Wales. Indeed, there's a Newport not a million miles from me.
  • "against Bristol City in" overlinked.
  • "scored in a 1–1 draw and then scored" scored scored... repetitive.
  • "came at the hands of" maybe just remove "the hands of" as that's a bit unencyclopedic and a shade anthropomorphic.
  • "another Saturday off" -> "another Saturday without a game" and here's a question, do our readers all know games mainly take place on Saturdays?
  • "100% home record in the league, having won every game played at" saying almost the same thing twice, I'd just say they won every game played at home at Dean Court in the league thus far.
  • Link sent off.
  • "consecutive days, but a draw " but?
  • Fulham is overlinked.
  • "in 3rd place" third?
  • "more than 4,000 more than" repetitive.
  • "to this point" that point.
  • Link hat-trick.
  • "against Brentford on " overlinked.
  • "to 6th in the" sixth?
  • "sustained an injury" any information on that?
    • Sorry no, can't find anything on what sort of injury it was
  • "before returning" only a month loan? Did Shearer recover in that time?
  • "out of favour again" was he out of favour before? Is that why the time between signing and his debut was extended? Sounds odd to sign someone and them immediately be out of favour?
  • Ah, Shearer came back in March, that's only four weeks, not such an "extended period"?
  • "score a hat-trick, scoring three goals" maybe replace "scoring" with "with"?
  • "on Easter Monday, drew" interesting, you avoided "Boxing Day" and "New Year's Day" but Easter Monday is a thing...
  • "from Brighton & Hove Albion during" overlinked.
  • "began the month of April" no real need for "the month of" is there?
  • Link foul.
  • "against Bristol Rovers on 25 April" overlinked.
  • "the league table, " you link that here?
  • "teams finishing third, fourth, and fifth in the final league table" what about the team from the league above playing to stay in their division?
  • "defeat Bolton Wanderers on the last day of the league season and hope that both Bristol City and Notts County failed " all three overlinked, and again "hope" isn't what needed to happen.
  • Avoid semi-colons for bold text/pseudo-headers.
  • Partial league table needs WP:ACCESS code, e.g. col/row scopes.
  • Indeed, I would copy one of the magic tables from the playoff final articles as it has hover-over abbreviation explanation and is fully screen-reader savvy.

That takes me to "Play-offs" which is obviously my favourite bit, so I'm saving that and subsequent sections. I think there's enough to be getting on with. Cheers for now. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 21:07, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: - all done (I think). For ease, you can see all the edits I made re: the above, here -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 05:50, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some of us like to link "relegation" as well as promotion, while it technically results in overlinking, the terms are so distinct that it could be considered useful to our readers.
  • "with three clubs from" which ones.
  • "scored a hat-trick after" overlinked.
  • "score(d)" is used twenty times in these two paras, can we mix up the prose a little?
  • "into the second leg.[54] In the second leg at" repetitive.
  • "second round, the team played" last team mentioned was Kettering.
  • "from a penalty kick but" link.
  • "of the First Division.[65] " overlinked.
  • "This was the highest number of goals conceded" -> This was the most goals conceded?
  • Link round-robin.
    • Done as far as here, not my wife needs the laptop. Back later..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:26, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Worth noting in the stadium image captions when each picture was taken.
  • "No player appeared in only one game" bit factoidy.
  • "only added two " 2.
  • Could crop that Kite image, it's a bit odd (but I know it's the best we have).
  • Player stats table, the competitions could be linked to the season competition (where available) rather than the generic competition articles.
  • " gain promotion Cascarino" comma before Cass.
  • "star player" is this encyclopedic tone?
  • "represent the Republic of Ireland at" overlinked.
  • "season beat Southend United 8–1 and" overlinked.
  • Strictly, the 11v11 link doesn't show the relegation zone for the 87/88 season table...
  • Newspaper.com clips aren't subscription only, anyone can see them I think...
  • "On Film..." could use a non-breaking space before the ellipsis. Same for ref 73.
  • Gale does need subscription though.
  • As does BNA.
  • Check page numbers are present where available e.g. ref 37 is p. 26.

That's all I have for now. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 06:54, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: - all of that lot done now, I believe. Sum total of diffs is here for your perusal..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 16:29, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
All good for me, thanks for addressing my pedantry, gets my support. Cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 19:19, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Edwininlondon[edit]

I'll make a start:

  • first sentence: I would argue that the first sentence should at least say which division they played in (see 1980–81 Ipswich Town F.C. season)
  • fifty-fifth season --> in the body you have 55th
  • voted back into the League --> are you sure about the capital L? Doesn't look right to me
  • was an ever-present --> is this okay as a noun? I've only ever seen it as an adjective

Just been told there is football on the telly, so taking a break and back for more later ... Edwininlondon (talk) 18:46, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Done the first three. And yes, ever-present can be a noun. See, for example, this BBC story, the first sentence of which is "Newcastle United youngster Kelland Watts says he hopes to be an ever-present at League One Plymouth Argyle." -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:35, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A bit more. Not much I could find. Just these nitpicking ones:

  • Partial league table: there is an argument to be made to show position 6 and 7 as well
  • why is Swindon bold in this partial league table?
    • Because I copied it from the article on the play-off final and forgot to unbold them :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:08, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • the starting XI --> I guess you're trying to avoid repetition of "starting line-up", but XI is a bit too cryptic I think.
  • Source:[28] --> Can [28] not just simply move to the table's header Player statistics[28] ?
  • Bibliography: usually we have the publisher's location as well

That's all I could find. I applaud your ability to write neutral prose despite being a lifelong fan. Edwininlondon (talk) 17:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Edwininlondon: - all done, and thank you for your kind words! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:08, 12 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Nice work. I support on prose. Edwininlondon (talk) 17:06, 13 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

I noticed that a source review is still needed. I shall start one shortly. Edwininlondon (talk) 14:44, 5 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Edwininlondon: Thanks! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:56, 6 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Spotcheck:

  • #2 #11 #31 #35 #36 #47 #48 #52 #53 #57 #61 #84 all ok
  • #45 links to the wrong article
  • #65 does not mention Aldridge is a Republic of Ireland player

Edwininlondon (talk) 06:05, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Edwininlondon: - fixed #45 (no idea what I did there!) and added second ref to #65 to support Aldridge's status as an Irish international -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:50, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
OK, #45 and new #66 ok. Given your experience at FAC I think this suffices as far as checks go. Edwininlondon (talk) 06:26, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Edwin, tks for that spotcheck -- did you also happen to check the references for reliability and formatting? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 01:03, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Formatting ok. Reliability also looks ok to me. There is some reliance on matchday programmes. I'm guessing the reliability of matchday programmes has been discussed here at FAC before, although I am not able to find any using Search. For the claims made here in this FAC article I am happy with its use. Source review passed as far as I'm concerned. Edwininlondon (talk) 06:26, 8 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review—pass[edit]

Image licensing looks OK. (t · c) buidhe 08:34, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Amakuru[edit]

I promised you a review on your last FAC, and never got around to it, so making amends here!

Background and preseason
  • "Paul Taylor continued in the role of assistant manager" - this makes it sounds like we already know he was in this role, but it is in fact the first mention.
  • "first team trainer" - maybe hyphenate, assuming he's the trainer of the first team, rather than the earliest of the team trainers.
  • "Mark Weatherly took over as team captain, replacing Keith Oakes," - did he replace him before the season began, or only when Oakes left the club?
  • "Four days later, however, following a showdown meeting..." - I'm not sure you need "however" here. I'm not really sure what it's howevering.
  • "The directors then issued a statement to Gillingham supporters stating that the club's finances were now under control" - then and now? I think maybe the now can be removed.
  • "the winding-up order had been withdrawn" - was a liquidation order actually issued then? I'm not a legal expert and don't know much about this, but it seems from [2] that the winding-up order actually means the deed is done. That page says: "Once a winding-up order is made, the Official Receiver becomes the liquidator". Did that happen at Gillingham? If so, it's unclear to me how it gets withdrawn. Maybe clarify this if you have the info available.
  • "The most high-profile signing" - according to whom? This should probably either be attributed, or qualified with some objective measure on which it was the most high profile.
  • "most notably defender Mel Sage" - ditto
August–December
  • "Colin Greenall, a highly-rated defender signed from Blackpool" - there should be an off-setting comma after "defender"
  • "a game in which Cascarino was sent off" - this is the first mention of Cascarino in the body I believe, so should give his full name and link
January–May
  • No issues that I can see.
Results
  • For Fulham (H) 4–1 you only give three scorers.
Partial league table

I feel like some sort of indication as to who was promoted and who made he play-offs would be useful. In a MOS:ACCESS compatible way of course, perhaps a notes column at the end, as wee see at 1986–87_Football_League#Third_Division.

Play-offs
  • "to give Gillingham a two-goal lead" - clarify that this is on aggregate.
Players
  • "youth team manager" - perhaps hyphenate

That's about it. Looks good otherwise. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 16:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lead (forgot to look at this yesterday)
  • "Gillingham faced Swindon Town in the final. The two teams drew 2–2 on aggregate in the final" - two instances of "the final" in close succession is repetitive.
  • I'd also prefer "the final" rather than "the final".
  • Looking at 1980–81 Ipswich Town F.C. season, I see it has an overall summary of won/drawn/lost during the season in the lead. Is that something you could include here?
  • Otherwise looks good.  — Amakuru (talk) 18:32, 17 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Z1720[edit]

Non-expert prose review.

  • "The team's form declined in the second half of the season, however, meaning that to qualify for the play-offs for promotion to the Football League Second Division, a level at which the club had never played, the team needed to win their final game and both Bristol City and Notts County not to win theirs." -> "The team's form declined in the second half of the season; to qualify for the play-offs for promotion to the Football League Second Division, the team needed to win their final game, and both Bristol City and Notts County had to lose theirs." Since this sentence is long, I think cutting the "a level at which the club had never played" is necessary, and I suggest some rewording for flow.
    • Done. albeit with a slight variation - the other two teams didn't have to lose, they only had to not win (i.e. lose or draw) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:13, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "an outbreak of illness among the opposing players." Does the source say which illness?
  • "Jacobs was sent off for retaliating after being fouled by an opponent and never played for Gillingham again." Why did he not play for the team ever again?
    • Well, he wasn't selected for the team in any of the remaining seven matches and then his contract expired at the end of the season so he left. Beyond that, I can't say.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:13, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • Was he not selected for the seven matches because of this send-off? I recommend splitting this sentence in two, with the second sentence expanding upon the fact that he wasn't selected to play in the remaining matches and then he left. Z1720 (talk) 15:08, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Z1720: Changed. There's no sourceable explanation for why he didn't play in any of the remaining games, but the fact that the game against Walsall was his first appearance for ages suggests that he was already out of favour and probably only played in that game because other players were out injured (although I have no source to confirm that)....... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:18, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "visited Gillingham matches to watch him in action, and" This sentence is long, so I recommend replacing this comma with a period or semi-colon
  • I checked the lede, and it seems like all statements there are mentioned and cited in the article body.

That's all from me. Good work. Please ping when the above are resolved. Z1720 (talk) 17:29, 3 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Z1720: - see responses above -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:13, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
One respones above. Z1720 (talk) 15:08, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
My points have been addressed. I support this nomination based on prose. Z1720 (talk) 15:21, 4 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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