Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/2018 World Snooker Championship/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 24 July 2019 [1].

2018 World Snooker Championship[edit]

Nominator(s): Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:50, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the World Snooker Championship event in 2018. Joker Mark Williams won the event, fifteen years since his last world title, in a season after possibly retiring from the game. An alround memorable tournament, and crazy story.

The previous nomination had issues regarding MOS:FLAG, which should now be suitible, regardless of thoughts on the matter. Let me know if there are issues on the article. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 11:50, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging previous FAC commentors: @The Rambling Man, CitroenLover, Pawnkingthree, Tvx1, SMcCandlish, and Giants2008: - I appreciate any comments you might have. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:55, 7 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Don't have any issue with the page now due to the FLAG issue being resolved as far as I can see. --CitroenLover (talk) 20:37, 7 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Same here. It was unfortunate that the earlier discussion got derailed by someone who wouldn't listen; I think at least four of us were raising the same flags-related concern.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  17:09, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for the support above? Can I take this as a support, or is there there anything else that you'd like to note? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:53, 14 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
SMcCandlish - can I get a clear support as per above on this? Thanks for your time looking at this one. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:51, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Same for CitroenLover. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:53, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My previous comment counts as support for this, not really sure what else you need? --CitroenLover (talk) 19:29, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Generally in an FAC, you would have a response in bold to confirm. What your thoughts are, just makes it easier for the closing user. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:36, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments and support from Gerda[edit]

I am curious, new to the topic, and the article. I didn't participate in round 1 and will look with fresh eyes. Comments as I read:

Lead

  • I suggest to first say what this tournament is, and then speak about the sponsor and the ALT name. It's prominent enough in the infobox ;)
Moved later in lede
  • "had been held"? - "was held"?
Fixed
  • "second world title in 2003 and prior to the beginning of the season" - this seems to need at least a comma, better untangling in 2 sentences.
Not really my strongsuit... Is this an oxford comma situation? No idea, I think I've changed this correctly.
No idea about comma rulez, but when I read "world title in 2003 and prior", and connect the "prior" to 2003, something needs to be done ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:09, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • In general, this lead is focused on the winner, and I wonder if there might be more aspects worthy of summary.
I'd love there to have been some sort of reception to critique, but there's not much to source.

Overview

  • This might be called "Background", no?
Other FAs, such as the Boat race ones use Overview
  • "The sport originated by players from the United Kingdom, and later players from Europe and the Commonwealth." - "originate" and "later" seem a contradiction, - perhaps new verb for the "later"?
We are talking quite a long time before it being played much out of the UK. Any ideas on a word?
  • "Southeast Asia, such as in China, Thailand and Hong Kong" - reads as if explaining Southeast Asia, while I guess it should be where it is predominantly played?
I didn't want to use specifically in those locations. But maybe specifically is the correct word?
  • The name of Hendrie comes as a surprise, perhaps mention first why? (... most successful)
Reworded.
  • why "previous year" instead of plain 2017?
Done.

Format

  • link "seeded"?
done
  • may be my math: wasn't Selby one of the 16?
He was. However, the tournament doesn't always work this way. If the defending champion isn't in the top 16, they still qualify for the event as the top seed, and the next 15 players (1-15 in the world rankings) qualify as 2-16. As Selby was already #1, it's irrelevant, and thus why it's stated that way.

Participants

  • I may be the only one, and know about linking only once after the lead, but would like to have links to all players here, even if linked before. It's awkward to have to look above if curious here.
I know, but I don't make the rules. I feel like adding the extra links would go against consensus.
  • the last line about youngest and oldest made me curious to know lowest and highest age of those who qualified ;)
It's in the paragraph above this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:11, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

More to come. Interesting, thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:37, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No worries, thanks for your comments! I'll respond above. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:04, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for explanations and changes, all resolved to here. More later which may be tomorrow. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:22, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

One more general: it is welcome that every image comes with an ALT text, describing what it shows in short to someone who can't see it. I also recommend to repeat links in image captions, - some readers will look there first.

Prize fund

  • "prize money for this year", - call me boring but I'd prefer "prize money for 2018"
Sure. Makes more sense to me
  • conversion?
Convert into what? WP:CURRENCY reads "Conversions of less-familiar currencies may be provided in terms of more familiar currencies – such as the US dollar, euro or pound sterling." No need if already in pound.

Qualifying

  • Can we avoid two sentences in a row beginning "There were"?
Reworded

Century breaks

  • What does that mean at all? Link for us ignorants?
It is linked in the prose above, but I could see why it's confusing. Century breaks are scoring 100+ in one go, basically. I've linked.

Coverage

  • As you mentioned: surprising that there wasn't more coverage.
Yeah. Would be great. The info from the few pundits there are are covered in the tournament summary, sadly. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:57, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps some could be here also, where someone coming from the TOC might go. --GA

Excellent tables! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:18, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks again. ALT texts for images? One more: Is 2018 World Snooker Championship a name? Then it should head the infobox. Or is it 2018 world snooker championship? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:51, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Updated. Missed that one. Each image already has alttext, but I've linked players. In terms of reception, all anyone really says is "this person played well", "this person played badly", etc. Not really much on how the event as a whole went. Changed the infobox. It should totally say 2018. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 09:19, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support fine article. You may want to ask the former FAC participants if they could do the same, and clearly mark that, - make it easier for the coordinator. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:35, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Cas Liber[edit]

I loved watching Pot Black as a kid - good to see a snooker article here. I am reading through now. I think the prose needs some massaging and will post some comments below:

Hi Casliber, first Pot Black was the business. I feel like a timed version would do very well in 2019, but alas. We'll have to live with the Snooker Shoot-Out instead. Second, thanks for your time and the review. I'll answer/fix/change as per below. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:42, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ok, I rejigged the lead like this. Have a look and tell me if you're ok with it.
  • Generally at first mention of a person, it is good to introduce them with a couple of adjectives, generally nationality plus occupation. However this will get monotonous if everyone is "X professional", so have tried to mix it up a little e.g. "Welsh left-hander" etc.
    • The biggest issue is that (until 2019), there are no amateur players in the draw, so all players are professional. I like the nationality flair, but it's actually surprising how many top players are left handed (it's also a little contentious who is a left hander, and who is ambidextrous.) Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:42, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd rename the Overview section to Background - "Overview" means nothing here but a summary....which is what the lead is for, so it begs the question as to what it is, hence background is a more accurate fit really.
    • I think I originally had this as a background section and it was changed back to Background. I think this is more to be inline with some other FAs like 2019 Boat Race to change to background, so I'll change. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:42, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The World Snooker Championship is an annual cue sport tournament and is the official world championship of the game of snooker." - but how does this fit in with the other 19 ranking events of the season? Does this trump all the others..or what? Would be good to explain briefly here. This would be alot more relevant than the 2nd, 3rd and 4th sentences of this section, which I think are too general and would remove
The other events are ranking tournaments. The World championship is the world championship. It's not a series (like say, motor sport), it's a series of events, where this tournament is the one that determines who the world champion is. It pretty much does trump everything else on the calendar. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:49, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Eight former world champions participated in the main tournament at the Crucible - why are we adding "at the Crucible" here?
    • No idea. I think this is traditional, as this is where the "modern era" starts, but a bit irrelevant in this context. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:42, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The draw for the opening round of the main tournament was on 19 April 2018, two days before the start of the competition - "was released"? "was announced"?
More it was "made". It was livestreamed. Will add "was conducted". Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:42, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • It was due to take place at 10:00 BST but was delayed until 12:00 BST because of technical issues. - why not, "Technical issues delayed the 10:00 BST start time by two hours"?
  • There were a total of sixteen first round matches, six of which ended with qualifiers defeating seeded players. - wordy, how about, "Of the sixteen first round matches, six ended with qualifiers defeating seeded players."

More later. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:11, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • I am not a fan of a controversies section at the bottom. I think these items are better threaded through the previous sections where they occur chronologically.

The rest otherwise reads pretty well - it also impresses as comprehensive, hence I am close to supporting....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:30, 9 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Casliber - have you got any other comments for the article? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:08, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
We need to look at my last query above about the controversies section....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:06, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have moved this into prose. Casliber Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:15, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, all good now, supporting Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:13, 22 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator notes[edit]

This has been open for well over a month with good commentary but minimal support for promotion. I added it to the Urgents list yesterday but it will be archived soon if it doesn't receive significant additional attention. --Laser brain (talk) 11:20, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'll see what I can do. There doesn't seem to be too much above opposing the nom; so I'll try and get some more eyes. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:25, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've promoted this but I wanted to add that I carried out some random source spot-checks before promotion. 5 of 5 passed verification and did not have any problems with close paraphrasing. --Laser brain (talk) 23:00, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review[edit]

  • File:World Snooker Championship 2015 Logo.png – PD-textlogo looks to cover this one, despite the gradient
  • File:Sheffield Crucible theatre.png (CC-BY-SA) – Looks good
  • Player photos by Bill da Flute and DerHexer are licensed and used appropriately.
  • I feel like the ALT text could be more descriptive, especially for the player pictures. Describing their outfits, how they are holding their cue, etc. could help clear things up for readers using the appropriate software. SounderBruce 23:41, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for looking into this, SounderBruce - I'll take a look into the alt text. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:08, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have put some more info into the alttext SounderBruce. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:16, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Toa Nidhiki05[edit]

I'm going to give this a look.

General
  • One immediate find is there are a number of duplicate links. I'd use the duplicate link tool to find and remove them.
I had to reinstall the script, as it didn't work, but all removed now.  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 06:40, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Background
  • "...through a mix of the world snooker rankings, and a pre-tournament qualification round" - Remove the comma here.
  • "The first world championship in 1927 held in Camkin's Hall, Birmingham, England, was won by Joe Davis.[7][8]" - Add a comma after 1927.
  • "The winner of the 2018 event would win" - Not sure I like that phrasing. Maybe use another word(s) than win, like "receive" or "be awarded"?
  • "just one short of Stephen Hendry's record of 27 consecutive appearances, and four short of Steve Davis's record of 30 total appearances." - Remove the comma here.
Anything else Toa Nidhiki05 Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 07:00, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
All these look good to me. Have some citation fixes below, after that I should be able to support. Toa Nidhiki05 00:36, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Citations

Toa Nidhiki05 12:35, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have ammended all of the above, Toa Nidhiki05 Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:48, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
All issues have been addressed so support. Excellent article! Toa Nidhiki05 17:45, 24 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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