Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ben Paschal/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Karanacs 17:13, 30 March 2010 [1].

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Ben Paschal

Ben Paschal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Nominator(s): Secret ^account 19:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

• Featured article candidates/Ben Paschal/archive1
• Featured article candidates/Ben Paschal/archive2
• Featured article candidates/Ben Paschal/archive3

Failed the first time around a few weeks, primary from lack of support, concerns of the previous FAC met, and since passed to a GA without much concern. Thanks Secret ^account 19:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Note I'm editing from my iPhone for a few days the iPhone doesn't let me reply very well I saw staringold comments will try to fix when I get a chance but note that the murder row term are for the late 1920s Yankees teams in general not just the 27 team and I don't agree with subsections as it's a short article in general the rest of the comments I should try to fix. Please someone move this comment to the bottom. Thanks Secret ^account 14:00, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Note: This is a WikiCup nomination. To the nominator: if you do not intend to submit this article at the WikiCup, feel free to remove this notice. Ucucha 19:56, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

• Comment. No dab links or dead external links; alt text fine. Ucucha 20:02, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

• Comments – Sources checked out okay at the previous FAC. Also, someone changed the alt text recently, adding proper names to each photo. This should be changed, and the rest of it should be checked for compliance with alt text guidelines. Have to read this article again when I get a chance. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 02:11, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Good catch. Amandajm has edited the alt text, and most changes were improvements, but the introduction of names was not. I changed that now. Ucucha 02:22, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
    • There seems to be a minor edit war starting over the alt text in this article, is it worth seeking a third opinion.....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:46, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
      • I am still in discussion with Amandajm. When that breaks down, we'll need more opinions, but not yet. Ucucha 13:55, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
• Comment The "Later life" section seems to lose its focus. Not all of that material pertains to his "later life". (Eg, "During his time with the Yankees, Paschal was considered a quiet player with a colorless personality. He was part of the team's 'movie crowd' along with Lou Gehrig, Mark Koenig, and a few others; the group preferred watching a film after a game to partying around town.") Is there a better place to put that information? Zagalejo^^^ 05:58, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
  • I moved it to a better place. Secret ^account 14:46, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
    • OK, that works for me. I haven't read the whole article yet, but I might take a look soon. Zagalejo^^^ 20:01, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

• Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:18, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
• Image copyright check: All seem fine. Stifle (talk) 12:50, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
• Comments from Staxringold _talk^contribs 22:00, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

• Given Paschal's time in the minors, I think it would be worth adding page, particularly to cite the last sentence of "Early Career".

• I mentioned it in the external links, the last sentence is already cited by the book. Secret ^account 16:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

• The lead sentence describing his role with the Yankees during the 1920s needs some fixing. First, really Murderers' Row only applies to the 1927 team (not all the 1920s teams as the lead currently suggests). Also while I don't mind the use of "fourth outfielder" (despite nothing to directly cite to) the phrase "leading right-handed pinch hitter" is far more affirmative and has no cite I can see. The article speaks to his PHing talent, and mentions his status as a PHer in 1928, but I think something removing "leading" would be appropriate.

• According to most historians, it's the late 1920s Yankees teams in general, not just the 1927 team for Murderers's Row, fixed the second suggestion. Secret ^account 16:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

• Speaking of 1928, the article says he was used "exclusively" as a pinch hitter in 28 but Retrosheet shows quite a few games in which he started (I count upwards of 20). Perhaps "largely" as a pinch hitter would be better? Or "heavily"?

• Looking closer some must have been defensive replacements (as he had no PAs), but he clearly started in the 28 season. Staxringold _talk^contribs 22:03, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

• Fixed Secret ^account 16:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

• Does citation #15 cover the currently uncited statement about Veach's skills declining and thus Paschal keeping his role (largely)? If so I would repeat it to be clear.

• Reworded it Secret ^account 16:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

• Is it worth creating "1925" and then "1926-1928" subheads for within the "Yankees career" section to make clear where info on his 'most important' season (1925) is? I'm just using Mariano Rivera as a model in asking.

• I don't think it's important as it's a rather small article. 16:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Comments on 1a. I looked through the top part (actually, there's not enough of it after the top part, IMO). Needs some attention by an unfamiliar editor. However, it's not a bad piece at all.

• "Cup of coffee" stints: we shouldn't have to hit the link to know what this means; and it's right at the top, too. Why not at least add "short" before the term. Same disregard for non-experts in "five-tool player"; why not enumerate five skills: "was described as a five-tool player, who excelled at hitting for average and power, running, throwing, and fielding." You must put a comma after "player", or it means that not all five-tool players had these five skills ... that would be confusing to the readers.
• "... and sportswriters consistently wrote how he would start for most other teams in the American League." What does that mean; specifically "start"?
• "time period"—is that the jargon, or simply a redundancy? "Time" occurs twice within 200 ms.
• Why is "World War I" linked? It's not a MilHist article, and that link-target is very very broad. We're expected to know what WWI and WWII were.
• The last para in the lead is stubby. Can it not be joined to the previous para?
• "Prior to"; could it be just plain "Before"?
• "He still hit two home runs during a September 8 game"—Which one is "he"?
• Caption: "fourth person on the left" Don't you say "fourth from the left"?
• Still need the dollar sign for 100,000.
• Oh, it's rather short for an FA. Tony (talk) 12:53, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
• I fixed almost all the comments, with the exception of the $100,000 which I can't seem to fix the template. I tried to add the $ but with no avali. I also know it's rather small for an FA but I used all the sources I could found on google without getting too much details on stats. Secret ^account 16:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
• Comment This article currently has no redirects, there should be at least one in this case. — Dispenser 16:08, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
• I don't get that comment Secret ^account 16:52, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Please don't use the template, then, if it renders wrongly. ($). Tony (talk) 10:26, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

• Reference issues

• #39 "Eig: pg. 94" is a shortened footnote stuffed into standard footnotes. For consistency, use the full citation.

---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 00:05, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

• Fixed this on behalf of the nominator after they brought it up on my talk page. Still need to take another full look at the article. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 15:49, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Comments – I reviewed this at the first FAC and offered a minor copy-edit. With some time having passed since then, I took a fresh look at the entire article and found the following concerns. If these are addressed, I'll likely wind up in the support column, since it really is a nice article as a whole.

• "and sportswriters consistently wrote how he would start for most other teams in the American League." I don't know if the sourcing is strong enough to support the phrase "consistently", since there is only one reference; it's difficult to say that this was a general opinion.
• Early career: "When the 1920 season ended, Paschal was purchased as an option to keep by the Boston Red Sox." Is "as an option to keep" correct baseball terminology? I checked the source, which said "purchased on option". I don't want to see language too close to the reference, but I've never heard of an "option to keep" before. Maybe it was something used in the old days.
• Yankees career: Runs batted in was linked in the previous section, and doesn't need a repeat link here.
• "He was sent a new contract for the 1926 season, but returned the contract for more money and threatened to hold out." The use of "contract" is a shade repetitive here; the second one could just be "it".
• In this area, three straight sentences start with "He". It wouldn't hurt to change one or two for variety.
• I don't like the lack of a transition in the 1926 summary. It discusses the "tight pennant race in mid-August", and after a couple sentences advances to the World Series. A sentence along the lines of "The Yankees won the pennant and faced the St. Louis Cardinals in the 1926 World Series" would be nice; this would provide an effective transition to the Game 5 description.
• "By that time, the Yankees was forming the nucleus..." Here, "was" should be "were" for correct grammar.
• "Paschal was a single short of hitting for the cycle, and should have had three home runs." From the following sentence, I can't see how he "should" have had a third homer, as he wasn't prevented from it by a great catch or something. He apparently came close to two homers on top of the two he got; perhaps it would be better to re-phrase the sentence along those lines.
• I don't see how the bit about the Yankees trading for Ruffing in 1930 can adequately be cited by a reference from 1927. That could use an extra source.
• Later career: 1929 New York Yankees season doesn't need another link after the one in the previous section.

The couple of sourcing concerns are the most pressing for me, but the copy-edits etc. suggested shouldn't take too much effort to put in place. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:36, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.