Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Dragon Ball (manga)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 23:02, 20 August 2017 [1].

Dragon Ball (manga)[edit]

Nominator(s): 1989 18:18, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a manga series following Goku and his adventures. It made it's run on Weekly Shōnen Jump from 1984 to 1995. The manga is recognized from its anime adaptions in the United States, most notably Dragon Ball Z. 1989 18:18, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Image review from Adityavagarwal[edit]

  • Both the images have proper description templates, well-relevant, and qualify for fair use. Good to go! Adityavagarwal (talk) 02:21, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I believe you mean one is fair use, the other is CC 2.0. In any event, all looks proper.--Wehwalt (talk) 04:51, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I mean both are appropriate, in sum. Adityavagarwal (talk) 10:47, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Aoba47[edit]

  • For the caption for the Akira Toriyama image, I would replace the comma between "advance" and "he" with a semicolon as they are two separate sentences. I also think that "he thought it up weekly" can be changed to "he developed it on a weekly basis" as something about the current wording sounds a little too informal to me.
  • In this sentence (The journey leads them to the desert bandit Yamcha, who later becomes an ally; Chi-Chi, who Goku unknowingly agrees to marry; and Pilaf, an impish man who seeks the Dragon Balls to fulfill his desire to rule the world.), the semicolons should be replaced with commas as this is a list and not individual sentences.
  • In the sentence (Bulma, Gohan, and Kuririn search for them to revive their friends and then the Earth's Dragon Balls), I do not believe the "then" part is necessary.
  • I would suggest revising the following sentence (This leads to several battles with Freeza's minions and Vegeta, the latter standing alongside the heroes to fight the Ginyu Force, a team of mercenaries.) to avoid starting a sentence with "This".
  • I am a little confused by this sentence (In order to be allowed to end his popular series Dr. Slump). Who is allowing him to end the series? The publisher? A little more context would be helpful here.
  • In the "Japanese publication" subsection, you alternate between spelling out numbers and representing them as numerals. I am specifically referencing how you spell out twenty and twelve in the second paragraph. Please be consistent one way or the other about this.

Great work with this article. Once my comments are addressed, I will support this for promotion. I hope that you have a wonderful day. Aoba47 (talk) 15:43, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: I resolved your concerns. -- 1989 16:02, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for addressing my comments. I support this for promotion. Aoba47 (talk) 16:10, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Argento Surfer[edit]

  • from the lead, "strong comedic aspects early on." Suggest adding "in its run" to avoid ending on a preposition.
  • "to be allowed to end his popular series " - was he under contract or something?
  • "the two-part one-shot" - what does this mean? "two-part story" might be less confusing.
  • "he specifically aimed Dragon Ball at readers older than those of his previous work Dr. Slump" Dr Slump was already discussed two paragraphs earlier. The italicized section here seems repetitive.
  • "thinking about how you get in and where " suggest "a/the pilot enters and where"
  • "no one can tell him his original designs are wrong, as it is faster to draw" - the second part doesn't follow from the first here.
  • "asked Torishima for as few color pages as possible"
  • "The February 2013 issue of V Jump, which was released in December 2012" - I think this passage could be rewritten more clearly with a link to cover date, such as "The December 2012 (cover date February 2013) issue of V Jump..."
  • "have been collected into four tankōbon volumes on April 4, 2013" - "were collected"? All released the same day?
  • Excellent work on the plot summary. It couldn't have been easy to distill such a long story into such a brief retelling. Argento Surfer (talk) 16:46, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    @Argento Surfer: I resolved your concerns. -- 1989 17:35, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from 122.108.141.214[edit]

  • Comment - has the scholarly literature been surveyed for this series? For example:
  • Mínguez-López, Xavier (March 2014). "Folktales and Other References in Toriyama's Dragon Ball". Animation. 9 (1): 27–46. doi:10.1177/1746847713519386.

Thanks! --122.108.141.214 (talk) 02:13, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • I have scholarly sources on refs 63 and 93. I couldn't find much that was based on the manga from where I was looking at. -- 1989 02:31, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I added the source you recommended. -- 1989 03:53, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Great! What about book chapters, is there anything on DB in the encyclopedia we used for Naruto? & what about Japanese English-language news sources? (Due to the great popularity of DB and DBZ.) --122.108.141.214 (talk) 04:18, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have access to scholar sources. I used Google Scholar and Trove (for searching purposes, not access) to find something, but not much. I don't know what you mean, do you mean by publisher? The Japanese English-language news sources mostly talked about the (mostly newer) anime more than the manga. The only source that were relevant to the manga were The Japan Times from what you've found. I didn't find much on Asahi Shimbun except for a future exhibit event that I was able to use for the Legacy section. -- 1989 05:07, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that there does seem to be a lot of confounding reviews on DBZ and Dragon Ball Super in the searches I've done. Perhaps someone from WP:LIBRARY might be able to doublecheck? The book that we used for Naruto, Spanjers, Rik (2013). "Naruto". In Beaty, Bart H.; Weiner, Stephen (eds.). Critical Survey of Graphic Novels : Manga. Ipswich, Mass.: Salem Press. pp. 215–221. ISBN 978-1-58765-955-3 – via EBSCOhost. {{cite book}}: Unknown parameter |subscription= ignored (|url-access= suggested) (help), has a publishers website which says the book has a chapter on Dragon Ball. I know that the articles in this book tend to duplicate what WP already has, but there might be some information that would help lift the article to further comprehensiveness. Glad to know you've checked through the available English language Japanese newspapers. --122.108.141.214 (talk) 05:44, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I added the source you recommended. -- 1989 23:59, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Freikorp[edit]

  • "but no one can say his original designs are wrong and they are faster to draw." This wording reads quite badly, at least to me. It is supposed to be in quote marks? If not, reword it.
  • I removed it. -- 1989 20:40, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Now, decades later, cars are so sleek and aerodynamic, he currently draws square ones." - As per WP:REALTIME, try and avoid using terms like "now" and "currently".
  • "while thinking if the fighters can move around in it." - I think it would be better to say "can move around in them"
  • "he does not draw bad guys" - "bad guys" is pretty colloquial, I'd either put it in quotes or use a less childish term, like 'villains'.
  • "inspired by real estate speculators, Toriyama called the "worst kind of people" - I think you could use the word "who" after the comma
  • "Viz began to censor the manga in response to parental complaints." - How were they censoring it at this stage?
  • 'translating the sound effects of gunshots to "zap"' - this is confusing. What was the translation before it was zap?
  • Susan J. Napier could be introduced with her profession so we know why her opinion is relevant.
  • "In 2016, the manga has sold over 156 million" - this should be "As of 2016, the manga..."
  • "lots of martial arts, lots of training sequences, a few jokes" - I think this would read better if you put "[and]" in front of "a few jokes"
  • "became the model for other shōnen series" - this appears to be a fragment. I think you need the word "it" before 'became'
  • "thus starting a trend that he says continues to this day" - can you reword this considering WP:REALTIME?
  • "he commented that the developed" - huh? Is this supposed to be 'commented that the development'?

Well done overall, that's all I found. Freikorp (talk) 12:36, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Freikorp: I resolved your concerns. -- 1989 20:40, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. Happy to support this now. Freikorp (talk) 06:24, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

The article's sources are reliable and archived. Only one thing that bothers me is the use of all capitals for some Japanese sources. Also "Shenlong Times 2". DRAGON BALL 大全集 2: Story Guide (in Japanese). Shueisha. 1995." is lacking a isbn. Just fix these two issues and I'll make it pass. Good work with the article.Tintor2 (talk) 14:48, 10 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Tintor2: I resolved your concerns. -- 1989 17:23, 10 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Good. Passing this review. Good luck.Tintor2 (talk) 17:56, 10 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Paparazzzi[edit]

  • "...which together were broadcast in..." I guess you meant "broadcasted"
  • "The companies initially split the manga into two parts, Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z to match the anime series, however...", I think that a full stop would be more appropiate before "however"
  • "the most recent edition saw the entire series released under its original name." Sounds odd to me, why not to change it to "the most recent edition of the series was released under its original title"
More to come...Paparazzzi (talk) 04:39, 7 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Paparazzzi: I resolved your concerns. -- 1989 21:21, 8 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

More comments:

  • I think the are so many short paragraphs in the "Spin-offs and crossovers" section.
  • Split the "Popularity" section into two paragraphs

These are my comments. I did not find any flaw. Since they are minor comments, I'm going to support this nomination. If it is possible, could you take a look at my FAC? Sorry for the delay on this review. Have a wonderful day. --Paparazzzi (talk) 22:39, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed the paragraphs. -- 1989 23:08, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Epicgenius[edit]

  • In the "Writing" section:
    • "In order to be allowed by Shueisha to end his popular series Dr. Slump, Akira Toriyama agreed to start his next work relatively soon after." sounds weird. How about In order for Shueisha to allow him to end his popular series Dr. Slump, Akira Toriyama agreed to start his next work relatively soon after.

More comments later. epicgenius (talk) 02:50, 8 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: I resolved your concern. -- 1989 21:21, 8 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I will comment more tomorrow when I have more time. epicgenius (talk) 03:09, 9 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@1989: More comments:

  • In "Characters":
    • Paragraph 2 - "The editor admitted his concerns were unfounded" contains "admitted", which has a connotation. Would you like to change this? This is optional since Torishima's concerns were unfounded.
    • Para 3 - "He created Piccolo Daimao as a truly evil villain, and said that arc was the most interesting to draw" is missing a "that", but having "that that" is kind of weird. How about Having created Piccolo Daimao as a truly evil villain, he said that arc was the most interesting to draw.
  • In "Japanese publication":
    • Para 1 - "before Toriyama changed midway through to drawing them on a graphics tablet and coloring them with Adobe Photoshop" could be a separate sentence. How about Midway through, Toriyama changed to drawing them on a graphics tablet and coloring them with Adobe Photoshop
  • In "Controversy in the United States":
    • "A fan petition that garnered over 10,000 signatures was created," → A fan petition was created, garnering over 10,000 signatures,
  • In "Legacy":
    • Para 3 - "Installations included using an EEG that measured visitors' alpha brain waves to move Goku's flying cloud." Remove "using".

Overall, this is very well written. I will be happy to support this nomination after these issues are fixed. epicgenius (talk) 02:06, 10 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius: I resolved your concerns. -- 1989 02:15, 10 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I'm glad to see that this was resolved so quickly. Nice work! epicgenius (talk) 02:18, 10 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Intermission[edit]

@FAC coordinators: Is there any more feedback that needs to be put here? -- 1989 23:08, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: I'm recusing as coordinator on this one. Once more, we have several cursory reviews that are overlooking big problems. I'm mainly opposing on prose at the moment, but will probably look at sourcing at some point as well. There are parts that are very difficult to follow. Here are some samples, but this is NOT an exhaustive list and simply correcting these will not result in the oppose being struck. I think someone needs to look very closely at the prose. I've just chosen random parts of the article and found these issues. I could find a lot more if I looked more closely. Sarastro1 (talk) 11:44, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • "In order for Shueisha to allow him to end his popular series Dr. Slump, Akira Toriyama agreed to start his next work relatively soon after." Who is Shueisha? Who is Toriyama. Don't expect the reader to click links to find out. At FA standard, we should have enough information, even if just a sentence or phrase, to explain who people are. Additionally, this doesn't make sense. It says that for Shueisha to finish one series, Toriyama let him start his new work once he had finished. These two items do not connect at all.
  • "Since it was serialized in a shōnen magazine, Toriyama added the idea of the Dragon Balls to give it a game-like activity of gathering something, without thinking of what the characters would wish for": Again, I'm struggling to understand this. What is a "a game-like activity", what does "thinking of what the characters would wish for" mean?
  • "Although he suspected battles would appeal more to its shōnen audience, Toriyama tried to stick to the Journey to the West adventure aspect, which he enjoyed": What battles? What is the "Journey to the West adventure aspect"?
  • "When asked about the distinctive machines he drew in the series, Toriyama said he enjoys designing and drawing them so much it is almost a form of escapism": Why are we switching tense here ("asked... said he enjoys")? "said he enjoys designing and drawing them so much it is almost a form of escapism" is very wordy and this whole sentence could be reduced to "Toriyama enjoyed designing and drawing the distinctive machines of the series".
  • "Having created Piccolo Daimao as a truly evil villain, he said that arc was the most interesting to draw.": Why "truly evil"? What arc? We haven't described an arc. As this is the start of a paragraph, we can't have "he", we need a name (I can't quite tell from the context who this is). And I'm struggling to see what the point of this sentence is.
  • "Commenting on the issue, manga critic Susan J. Napier explained it as a difference in culture": It's not quite clear from this sentence or the previous one what "it" is that was a difference in culture.
  • "Wanting to break from the Western influences that were common in Dr. Slump, Toriyama aimed for Oriental scenery in Dragon Ball, referencing Chinese buildings and photographs of China his wife bought. The island where the Tenkaichi Budōkai is held is modeled after Bali, which he, his wife, and assistant visited in mid-1985. The area around Bobbidi's spaceship was inspired by photos of Africa he consulted.": Simple redundancy in this section. "Wanting to escape the Western themes that influenced Dr. Slump, Toriyama used Oriental scenery in Dragon Ball, referencing Chinese buildings and scenery. The island where the Tenkaichi Budōkai is held is modeled on Bali, which he visited in 1985. The area around Bobbidi's spaceship was inspired by photos of Africa."

I think this article still needs a lot of work to address 1a alone, and I would recommend getting a good copy-editor familiar with FA standards. Sarastro1 (talk) 11:44, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Sarastro1: I'll have no problem withdrawing the nomination to fix this problem, but if you still insist on doing a source spot check, I'll hold myself from that, unless you prefer to address that on the article talk page. -- 1989 17:39, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to withdraw this (I can't action that as I'm recused here), I'd be happy to copy-edit this myself and check the sources afterwards. I don't think this would be achievable while an FAC is open but I'm happy to work on it with you away from the spotlight for a little while. I don't think it would be a huge job. Sarastro1 (talk) 18:22, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Sarastro1: I'd appreciate that. Thanks, and hopefully when you're done, we could nominate this together. @Ian Rose: Red X I withdraw my nomination -- 1989 18:29, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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