Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Dragon Quest/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by SandyGeorgia 00:12, 19 March 2011 [1].

Dragon Quest[edit]

Dragon Quest (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): 陣内Jinnai 17:26, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because it has gone through great expansion and overhaul since the last time including a copyedit. While it failed a wikiproject A-class assement, it seemed to be more due to copyediting. I would like to try and, if possible, get this as a FA for the 25th anniversary of the series this May.陣内Jinnai 17:26, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

  • "The Mystery Dungeon and Itadaki Street series use characters and other elements from Dragon Quest games; the Mystery Dungeon series has gone on to spawn its own franchise." - source?
    • The games themselves. I guess I could cite EVERY SINGLE GAME of the multitude from that series which are, for the mystery dungeon, in the dozens. However, I would attest that the links that previously cite some of those games are enough.
    • Alright, I have a source that notes that another non-Dragon Quest game uses the same engine, by the same developer with the same series title, but different characters.陣内Jinnai 20:35, 1 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Beginning in 1989 with three series, the media franchise expanded rapidly" - source?
    • Rephrased. That statement is a now a summary statement supported by the following paragraphs in that section.
  • "Playing the Dragon Warrior III with the name "Erdrick" is impossible as the game does not allow you to continue if the name is used." - source?
    • The game itself. Look at general sources.
  • "Horii's company, Armor Project, is in charge of the Dragon Quest games that were published by Enix and Square Enix." - source?
    • The games themselves. Look at general sources.
  • "The Japanese release of Dragon Quest VIII retains the traditional text menus. However, the Japanese release of Dragon Quest IX uses the menus based on the English release of Dragon Quest VIII." - source?
    • The games themselves. Look at general sources.
  • Square Enix or Square-Enix?
    • Fixed. Square Enix.
  • All web references need publishers and retrieval dates
    • Fixed, i think. I fixed the publishers, but as far as I could tell they all had access dates. If there isn't one, please list it specifically.
      • Current refs 33, 79 lack publisher; 111 was retrieved in the future
        • Fixed.陣内Jinnai 22:46, 26 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • Ref 10 has the wrong publisher listed
  • What does IGN stand for? Also, it's a publisher, not an author
    • IGN stands for IGN as far as I know. The full name, if one exists, is never used by any source, reliable or not.
  • What makes this a reliable source?
    • It was used in a historical enyclopedia for gaming published by a reknowned proffessor in the field. See WP:SE#Sources.
      • Who is the author of the site, and what are his qualifications in this field?
  • Be consistent in what is wikilinked when. Also check existing wikilinks - 1up is linked to a gaming term, not a publisher/publication
    • Fixed 1up
  • What makes this a reliable source? This? This?
    • All of those meet the qualifications of a WP:SPS. If you want more details, WP:VG/S has had a history which can tell you more of who are more familar with them. However, its pretty easy to others generally considered RSes using them.
      • Looked at VG/S and linked discussions. I'm ambivalent on Square Enix Music, but the discussions don't seem to support the use of RPGamer or RPGFan in FA-level articles. Can you justify their use?
  • ref 71: title?
  • Book sources usually need page numbers
    • Source #? A lot of those books are being used in a way to "show they exist" not to cite a specific passage or anything. As such they do not need page numbers.
  • Can you rationalize your use of amazon.com and other commercial/promotional sites here?
    • They are used to meet WP:V that items exist or for interviews on them, such as the Dragon Quest website. That is a perfectly acceptable use for those sites.
  • In general, citation formatting should be more consistent.
    • Please elaborate.
      • Name things consistently (for example, squareenixmusic.com has two different names); be more consistent in what is italicized when; be more consistent in what is wikilinked when; use a consistent date formatting; like citations should be formatted the same; etc
        • Should now be fixed as far as date formatting, wikilinking and formating style (as much as can be with different types of refs). As for italics, I need some clearer indication where stuff is improperly italicized and its not part of the template.
          • For example, 1up is sometimes italicized and sometimes not.
        • {{cite video game}} has not been updated to conform with core due to outstanding issues that no one at core seems willing to help with. I've posted there some time ago and its resulted in no action. So some of the Japanese games have italicized kana/kanji, but there is nothing I can do about this.陣内Jinnai 19:10, 1 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria (talk) 22:04, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

    • I didn't state this before because I thought it would be apparant with a series that would be citing from every one of their 9 main series games that plastering citations after every single item which can be verified by playing the game would be better done by general sources as in some cases that's 9 references after a source and would clearly harm the readability if everywhere across the whole article it was done. You'll note I only do this for the main series games and not the spinoffs because the spinoffs are used a lot less and often times 1-2 cites are all that is needed.陣内Jinnai 23:43, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Look at the VG project own guidelines, which advise against relying so heavily on games as primary sources. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:56, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • And where possible and appropriate, I've used secondary sources. However, I cannot find where it discourages them, except for use with plot. Moreover, the overall usage does not violate WP:PRIMARY for what they're being used for.陣内Jinnai 20:39, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Disambig/External Link check - No dabs or dead external links. --PresN 01:13, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

  • One small thing that I noticed is that we are using the names from the English remakes when we are talking about the Japanese versions of the orignal games. For example the line Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen was released in Japan in 1990 and in North America in 1992 as Dragon Warrior IV is used. One problem here is that the original Famicom game was not called Chapters of the Chosen so the part about Chapters of the Chosen being released in 1990 is not completely accurate. I was wondering if the original names should be used when the original version is being discussed. This is not a big issue for me and I have what the rules say about this. Finally, if it is changed the 5th a 6th games should be altered as well.--76.66.180.54 (talk) 01:25, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Dragon Quest IV's original title is ドラゴンクエストIV 導かれし者たち which rougly translates to Dragon Quest IV:The Chosen Ones. In addition, MOS:FOREIGN discourages usage of foreign words, especially when there is an English translation. That it isn't a 100% litteral translation doesn't matter as most translations aren't.陣内Jinnai 03:02, 24 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Good, that settles that. I hope the request goes well.--76.66.180.54 (talk) 02:27, 25 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comments by New Age Retro Hippie
Comments by David Fuchs
  • Wouldn't it make more sense to put the gameplay/common elements at the beginning of the article? Or at least something of a quick development overview? Right now the article doesn't really flow, or give a proper intro outside the lead. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 16:32, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • As I can see how it would be modeled for individual video game articles, I can see where you're coming from there. Hence I moved it.陣内Jinnai 20:22, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • What's the source for "Dragon Quest is not as successful outside Japan, as it is eclipsed by another RPG series, Final Fantasy."?
  • [2] doesn't support the first part of the gameplay section, namely, "In Dragon Quest, players control a party of characters that can walk into a town and buy weapons, armor, and items to defeat monsters. Outside of town, on the world map or in a dungeon,".
  • Likewise, the above ref does not support "When the party encounters monsters, during either a random encounter or boss battle, the view switches from an overhead perspective to the first person, and players are presented with several options on a menu. The first-person menu-based battles have become a staple of the series."
  • Another spot check: "Each game has its particular set of classes; typical options include the Cleric, Fighter, Jester, Thief, Warrior, and Mage classes." → not explicitly supported by [3] or [4], and the note appended (currently #5) is full of unverified commentary (as are many of the notes.)
    • Oppose Judging by the above there appear to be referencing concerns. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 21:14, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'll address the others later, but I'll say the same thing I told Nikkimaria

        I didn't state this before because I thought it would be apparant with a series that would be citing from every one of their 9 main series games that plastering citations after every single item which can be verified by playing the game would be better done by general sources as in some cases that's 9 references after a source and would clearly harm the readability if everywhere across the whole article it was done. You'll note I only do this for the main series games and not the spinoffs because the spinoffs are used a lot less and often times 1-2 cites are all that is needed.

      • the items cited are non-contriverisial statements of fact verifiable within the game. That is what WP:PRIMARY is for. I take offense that the notes are largely "unsourced commentary", especially that one because it is in no way "commentary". In fact every comment there is sourceable by the games themselves save maybe references terms "first person" and "overhead". If you believe that they each need sites, I will have to say I disagree here in that goes against what is allowable perWP:CITE#General reference. The only way to not have them is basically plaster the article with tons of statements with 9+ references after every few lines, something people here equally dislike.陣内Jinnai 22:06, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • I can't tell what Dragon Quest plays like, let alone play all the games to see if that is in fact true. Such generalizations about an entire series should be sourced. Anyone who has never played the series is not going to have any idea whether anything you've written is true, and thus should be cited. This isn't 1+1=2 territory. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 14:44, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • How do you want me to do this that won't create tons of citations across the body that will likely get it kicked out of a future FAC because "there are too many citations" since I've had to deal with that before. Since some of the items deal with some game sand some others, I can't just latch them into 1 single citation for each game. I'll have to do every game individually which will inevitably create tons of sentances with a lot of citations after it with the end result is imo it'll never please everyone here because another reviewer will come along and tell me to reduce those citations because they harm the flow, which the only way to do will be to make them general citations. It doesn't matter whether you've played the game; its still veriable and its still cited; WP:CITE doesn't require inline citations for non-contriviersial/non-quote statements. Other than some of the terminology, nothing there could be said to be contriverisal.
          • As for the terms, I can do some editing to remove some of the terminology as I can see your point with that.陣内Jinnai 18:28, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • I did find a secondary source to back up at least one of the sentances (after editing it) and I've removed the info on the type of perspectives (top-down and first-person).陣内Jinnai 17:27, 18 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Looks good to me, but could someone finish merging Dragon Quest X before we finish here? It's impotent to know what the merged article will look like before final approval. Great work! Judgesurreal777 04:20, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Well if its not going to be merged, then Support, the work done on this article has been extensive and of a high quality in keeping with FA standards. Judgesurreal777 23:43, 9 March 2011 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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