Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Dundalk F.C./archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Laser brain via FACBot (talk) 21 October 2019 [1].

Dundalk F.C.[edit]

Nominator(s): Daniel Sexton (talk 01:28, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a leading Irish association football club - Dundalk F.C., the current League of Ireland champions. It's quite a long read covering the origins of the club and its subsequent highs and lows up to and including its recent highly successful period. While the club itself is not of the stature of leading European clubs, I believe the article is worthy of interest. It has already received 'Good Article' status, and has, I believe, been improved since. I have been working on it for a number of months trying to ensure its neutrality, its accuracy and that there's a nice pace to the prose. I am keen to make the article as good as possible and will make any suggested improvements asap. Thank you very much in advance to anyone who spends time on this nomination.

Comments by Kosack[edit]

  • I don't think there's a need to repeat links for the history, European football and records pages at the bottom of the lead. I wouldn't include them in a see also section either, they're already included in relevant sections and in the club template at the bottom of the page.
    • Removed
  • There seems to be quite a few seemingly unreferenced parts. A paragraph shouldn't really end without a source.
    • Fixed, for many references are there just sentence structure used had them mid sentence. Inserted more citations where necessary.
  • Not sure about the heading "As you were".
    • Came from a referenced match report, have modified sections to remove.
  • The personnel section appears to be unsourced.
    • Added source from club website
  • What does the star indicate in the honours table?
    • A tenth title. This is explained in the "Colours and Crest" section, which links to appropriate Wiki article. Have removed the star anyway to avoid confusion.
  • There are a very large amount of references with no accessdates. I can also see a bare url (ref 194).
    • Fixed bare url. All access-dates inserted.

I think there's a decent bit of work to do to get this up to FA, a peer review may have been more appropriate before bringing it here. These are the obvious big issues I noted during a very quick read so there's something to get started on. Kosack (talk) 13:03, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Probably hubris on my part to go straight to FA, but I tried to follow the Cardiff City F.C. article style and thought it was pretty close. Thank you for your time! Daniel Sexton (talk 01:43, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work doing the fixes so quick, I'll try and provide a few more points to keep the general improvements going:

  • Link UEFA club coefficients to UEFA coefficient.
    • done
  • "After reaching a Leinster Junior Cup final, and dominating the local scene for three seasons, Dundalk G.N.R. were elected to the Leinster Senior League for 1922–23 to replace sides promoted to the nascent Free State League", the ref included at the end of this sentence (5) only supports them being elected to the league, no mention of a cup final or dominating the local scene?
    • citations added
  • Ref 6 only appears as a headline for me? "Dundalk get in on the ballot" but no article?
    • The newspaper archive engine can do that - splits articles from their headings. I've added a second citation for the body
  • "On 21 August 1926 the team, still known as Dundalk G.N.R.", if the team's name hasn't changed I don't think we need to be pointing it out.
    • edited
  • "that season's Leinster Cup final", is this now the Leinster Senior Cup (association football)? Could do with a link if so.
    • yes, done.
  • In the second paragraph of "First successes", Dublin City Cup is linked twice in two sentences. No need for the repeat link in such close proximity, per WP:OVERLINK.
    • done
  • You use First World War earlier but World War 2 later on. Use one format for consistency.
    • done
  • Does public limited company need to be capitalised?
    • fixed
  • Bradford > Bradford City.
    • done
  • Top Four Cup is mentioned in the paragraph before it is linked, move the link to the first use.
    • done
  • "Oriel Park tasted", a little journalistic. How about simply "hosted"?
    • done
  • "The town swelled with pride at what its club was achieving", doesn't seem much like a WP:NPOV and the closest ref (40) doesn't do much to support this either.
    • edited
  • Dublin City Cup linked two more times in this paragraph.
    • edited
  • "an ageing team was getting less competitive", getting less is a little clunky. Was struggling to compete, perhaps?
    • better! done
  • "Dundalk Football Club", do we need to suddenly use the full name here?
    • edited - "club's board"
  • The "Decline and Upheaval" section features some rather dramatic wording for an encyclopedia. Phrases such as "facing into severe headwinds", "the long-feared financial crisis came to a crunch" and "the reality of life in the lower tier kicked in" are an example of this.
    • have hopefully edited appropriately.
  • It seems a little odd for the European competition section to be added on to, an otherwise chronogically ordered history section. Perhaps it is better suited for the records section?
    • agreed moved
  • No obvious ref for the European competition record table.
    • citation added
  • Do we need the enforced line break after the table? Seems to be adding whitespace for no obvious reason.
    • did that because of how it looked on a mobile device, but have removed.
  • "racked up while wearing them", informal wording.
    • edited
  • Developer doesn't need the capital letter.
    • done
  • "is approx", I'd spell out the full word rather than leave use approx in a sentence.
    • done
  • There are a lot of red links in the first team squad. If they don't have an article, I would be inclined to unlink them.
    • unlinked
  • Youth Teams and Women's Teams headings, drop the capital letter from teams.
    • done
  • There are some odd uses of capital letters throughout. For example, sentences such as "top of the League table" and "team to a ninth League title", I don't think league would need to be capitalised as you're referring to a league table or league title rather than any specific entity.
    • Have tried to tidy up - left 'the League' or equivalent as is when referring to the entity, lower case for the rest.
  • The last book in the bibliography doesn't have an isbn.
    • It was a limited print by subscription book. It has no isbn. Does that mean I can't reference it?

There's another few to look at from myself. I think you'll need a strong copy editor to have a run through to iron out the prose a little. If you can get someone like that to go through with a review, I think we'll be in much better shape moving forward. Kosack (talk) 10:40, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • thank you for your time - genuinely appreciate your efforts! I’m not sure where to find a copy editor tbh Daniel Sexton (talk 12:24, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could be worth asking TRM, he's reviewing a lot of stuff right now although you may have to wait for the GA backlog drive to finish at the end of the month. Kosack (talk) 08:21, 25 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]


Comments by RetiredDuke[edit]

  • I did a cursory read of the article and spotted several uncited paragraphs. As a (very rough) rule-of-thumb, each paragraph should end with a reference.
    • Fixed, for many references are there just sentence structure used had them mid sentence. Inserted more citations where necessary.
  • This club is 134 years old (if we start counting in 1885). The article has large, detailed sections about "managerial eras" that last 5-8 years, isn't that a bit unbalanced in terms of coverage? I would recommend thinking on the bigger picture when naming the subsections, take a look at Cardiff City F.C. for instance.
    • Have reviewed. It's dictated by the number of trophies and amount of activity, e.g. a lot more happened in the 1964-74 and 2013-present time frames than in the Forties and Fifties. But have tried to rebalance to address. Had been trying to follow the general style of Cardiff City as it happens. Mustn't have done as good a job as I thought! Lol.
  • In that vein, I don't think the "As you were" section is needed, it's a summary.
    • Have incorporated into a 2013-Present section
  • There are two sections about European football.
    • One is in the context of performance history, one is in the context about home grounds having to be moved for European matches. Have removed sub-heading and modified slightly to avoid the error.
  • The social media section is not needed, every club has Instagram and Twitter accounts.
    • Removed
  • Some sentences seem out of place an should be removed, like "See also History of Dundalk F.C., Dundalk F.C. in European football and List of Dundalk F.C. records and statistics" in the lead and "McLaughlin's trophy haul while at Dundalk: three League titles, three FAI Cups, two League of Ireland Cups and two Leinster Senior Cups.".
    • All such sentences removed.

Some food for thought. (I also think it needs some work before hitting FA status). RetiredDuke (talk) 14:10, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • File:Dundalk_FC_2015_Crest.png: should complete the FUR
    • Done
  • File:DDT_1903_09_26_13.png: what is the author's date of death?
    • Author used a pseudonym, this is a scan from a newspaper published in 1903. Does it fall under public domain (pre-1924)?
      • In the US, yes, but to be on Commons it has to be in the public domain in both the US and its source country. This image has a tag stating it's PD in countries with a term of author life + 70 - as the author is unknown and the publication is recent enough that the author could have survived longer, this tag should be replaced.Nikkimaria (talk) 22:18, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:DundalkGNR.jpg: when/where was this first published and what is the author's date of death?
    • Photograph is on display at Dundalk F.C. Image is a photo of the displayed photo. Photographer is unknown. As was taken at start of season in 1923. Does it fall under public domain (pre-1924)?
      • Depends - just because it was taken in 1923, doesn't mean it was published at that time. Is there any indication of it having been published before the more recent display?Nikkimaria (talk) 22:18, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • The photo on display appears to be an original. It is not reproduced in the Irish newspaper archives and the 2003 Jim Murphy book referenced in the bibliography, which is the guidance for the article, uses a photo of the photo without attribution. Murphy's book was the first published about the club, so I believe it is not published elsewhere. If it's safer to remove the image I will.Daniel Sexton (talk 01:15, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • Unfortunately without more information it's more likely than not that it's not free. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:34, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Dundalk_Seal.jpg: according to the given source, while this is derived from a 1300s design, the current design is from the 1960s
    • Have made appropriate edits to prose and have removed image.
  • File:Dundalk_Coat_of_Arms.jpg: what is the author's date of death?
    • Assumed fell under public domain (pre-1924). Don't know author so have removed.
  • File:Dundalk_FC.svg: don't feel a non-free image is justified in this case.Nikkimaria (talk) 16:28, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment - This has been open for a solid month without any declaration of support for promotion, and doesn't seem to be heading in the right direction at present. Therefore, I will be archiving it shortly and it may be re-nominated after the customary two-week waiting period. In the mean time, please action feedback as appropriate. --Laser brain (talk) 11:53, 21 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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