Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Goodman Beaver/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 17:21, 29 March 2014 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Goodman Beaver[edit]

Goodman Beaver (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Nominator(s): Curly Turkey (gobble) 10:13, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Harvey Kurtzman's Goodman Beaver—short-lived but brilliant comics series whose six episodes appeared between 1959 and 1962. Unfortunately long out of print (though one of the strips has fallen into the public domain), this series is a connoisseur's delight—still funny after all these years, and the artwork was Will Elder at his peak. Kurtzman then went and sold his soul to Hugh Hefner—and transformed the strip into Playboy's Little Annie Fanny, where he wasted his talent for the next twenty-six years.

The previous nomination died on the vine around Christmas—it garnered two supports, and had no remaining un-dealt-with issues. Take pity, O fellow editors—Kurtzman's career was filled with heartbreak enough without this article suffering through further archive purgatory. Curly Turkey (gobble) 10:13, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

  • FN10, 32: page(s)?
  • Chicken Fat: why are you including Groth as both author and editor when there is no chapter/section given? Also, link given suggests Elder should be credited
    • I messed up with the credits here—it was edited by Groth and Sadowski, with text throughout by Gary VandenBergh. The book itself is credited to Elder alone, though, and since the text isn't in any "chapter", I don't know how best to format this. Curly Turkey (gobble) 09:56, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Check alphabetization of Works cited
  • Check consistency of wikilinking - for example, Fantagraphics is linked with Benson and Fiore but not the double Groth
  • Be consistent in whether periodicals include publishers
  • "Will Elder interview" - issue number?
  • Is the misspelling in the Frauenfelder title present in the original? Also, publication title should be italicized.
    • Yes, and there's a note in the source about it. The title is of a short strip, so it should be in quotes. Fixed to single quotes. Curly Turkey (gobble) 09:56, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nikkimaria (talk) 22:16, 23 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Right, Nikkimaria, and you just happen to dump this on me the day I forget to bring my laptop. How'm I supposed to fix that with my phone?! Of course, the only thing is for you to retract this rubbish. Curly Turkey (gobble) 23:06, 23 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Get Siri to do it for you. She'd probably get this FAC insta-passed, if she can tickle Ian's laptop the right way. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:29, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Alas, Siri won't give me so much as the time of day since she caught me hanging around with an Android. Curly Turkey (gobble) 05:04, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Review by GabeMc[edit]

Lead
  • "Goodman first appeared in a story in Harvey Kurtzman's Jungle Book in 1959, but the best-remembered strips were the five stories produced by the Kurtzman–Elder team in 1961–62 for the Kurtzman-edited magazine Help!."
Per MOS:CONSECUTIVE, omit the redundant terminal punctuation.
Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They tended to be in the parodic style Kurtzman had developed"
Consider: "They tended to be written in the parodic style Kurtzman had developed", or similar.
I've deliberaely avoided this—Kurtzman (as a cartoonist) was a visual writer. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Except for the character's first appearance, which Kurtzman did alone, the stories were written by Kurtzman and drawn by Will Elder."
"which Kurtzman did alone" could use a little smoothening.
  • "when he wrote and edited Mad in the 1950s"
Consider: "when he wrote and edited Mad magazine in the 1950s".
It didn't become a magazine until 1955. Kurtzman was behind the first 23 comicbook issues, but only five of the magazine issues. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The issue was settled out of court, and the copyright for the story passed to Archie Comics."
There is a comma separating the two verbs in a compound predicate.
Is this a compound predicate? The verbs have different subjects. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The way I read it, the copyright is the issue. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:04, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Overview
  • "Kurtzman wrote five Goodman Beaver stories for long-time collaborator Will Elder."
Consider: "Kurtzman wrote five Goodman Beaver stories for his long-time collaborator Will Elder."
Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Most of the stories were in the parodic style Kurtzman had developed as the creator, editor, and writer of Mad, but dealt with more significant issues concerning modernity."
Consider: "Most of the stories were written in the parodic style Kurtzman had developed" and "creator, editor, and writer of Mad magazine".
See above—everything about Kurtzman's life story is unnecessarily complicated. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "significant issues concerning modernity"
Consider liking to Modernity.
Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"The Organization Man in the Gray Flannel Executive Suit"
  • "when an enraged Goodman Beaver confronts his diminutive boss Mr. Schlock, Goodman is graphically overwhelmed by Schlock's word balloons,"
Comma splice
I'm not sure. It seems to me that removing the comma would mean the "which" could refer to the word balloons themselves, rather than the situation. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, "an enraged Goodman Beaver confronts his diminutive boss Mr. Schlock" and "Goodman is graphically overwhelmed by Schlock's word balloons" are both complete sentences, right? GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:04, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Goodman Meets T*rz*n"
  • "Set against the backdrop of the fall of European colonialism in the face of rise of African nationalism"
Missing article
Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Elder's first take on Goodman Beaver, "Goodman Meets T*rz*n" first appeared in the September 1961 issue of Help!."
1) Per MOS:CONSECUTIVE, omit the redundant terminal punctuation. 2) I think that, "Goodman Meets T*rz*n", is in apposition so it needs another comma.
Done and done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • " so Elder reworked Goodman's appearance in later stories, and redrew Goodman's features[a] to conform with this new look for later reprintings of the "Goodman Meets T*rz*n" story"
Consider: "so Elder reworked Goodman's appearance in later stories, redrawing his features[a] to conform with this new look for later reprintings of the "Goodman Meets T*rz*n" story", or similar.
Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Goodman Goes Playboy"
  • "The story satirized Hugh Hefner and his lifestyle, while parodying Archie comics in a much more outlandish way than Kurtzman's parody "Starchie" in Mad a decade earlier."
There is a comma separating the two verbs in a compound predicate.
Done. Curly Turkey (gobble)
  • "Help!'s most famous story[16] was "Goodman Goes Playboy" in the February 1962[b] issue of Help!."
1) Per MOS:CONSECUTIVE, omit the redundant terminal punctuation. 2) Consider: "was "Goodman Goes Playboy" first published in the February 1962", or similar.
Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Archie Andrews parody Archer explains to a behind-the-times Goodman"
This is confusing.
Any suggestions? Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, maybe something like: "Archer—an Archie Andrews parody—explains to a behind-the-times Goodman", or similar.
"Goodman Gets a Gun"
  • "rather, they are impressed to learn that as an off-duty police officer Goodman is carrying a pistol."
The interrupter, "as an off-duty police officer", should be set-off with commas.
Done, though I'm not confident it's necessary. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The group coaxes him into going that night to a night club"
"that night to a night club" is a little jarring; smoothen this out.
Reworded to "The group coaxes him into going with them to a night club". I suppose one should assume one goes to a night club at night. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Publication history
  • "The first Elder-drawn Goodman story appeared in Help! #12 in 1961, and was followed in 1962 with four more stories in Help! #13–16"
There is a comma separating the two verbs in a compound predicate.
Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • " Kitchen Sink Press published a collection called Goodman Beaver which reprinted four Kurtzman/Elder stories from Help!"
The non-restrictive phrase needs a preceding comma.
Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Playboy printed many cartoons, but not a comic strip until then."
Consider: "Playboy had printed many cartoons, but this would be their first comic strip", or similar.
Is "Until then, Playboy had printed many cartoons, but not a comic strip." okay? Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's even better! GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:04, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Reception and legacy
  • "Help! publisher Jim Warren received a letter on 6 December 1961 accusing Help! of copyright infringement"
Is there a way to phrase this so that we don't use Help! twice in close proximity?
Reworded the second instance to "the magazzine". Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The story was reprinted in the book collection Executive Comic Book in 1962, with the artwork modified by Elder to obscure the appearance of the Archie characters."
There is a squinting modifier in the second clause. Consider: "with the artwork that Elder modified to obscure the appearance of the Archie characters", or similar.
How is: "When the story was reprinted in the book collection Executive Comic Book in 1962, Elder modified the artwork to obscure the appearance of the Archie characters."? Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Perfect! GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:04, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "though he said that towards the end of the run he was getting tired of the painstaking work he put into drawing it."
The interrupter, "towards the end of the run", should be set-off with commas.
  • "and amounted to a kind of prostitution"
Omit "a kind of" and swap and out for that.
  • "Warren's lawyer believed fighting the suit would be successful"
Consider: "Warren's lawyer believed that they could be successfully fight the suit", or similar.
Reworded to "Warren's lawyer believed they could succeed if they fought the suit," Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Warren could not recall the magazine,[22] but agreed to pay Archie Comics $1000, and ran a note of apology in a subsequent issue of Help!"
Consider: "Warren could not recall the magazine, but he agreed to pay Archie Comics $1000 and publish an apology letter in a subsequent issue of Help!", or similar.
Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The story was reprinted in the book collection Executive Comic Book in 1962"
Omit the first book.
The issue here is that a comic book is not a book, and magazine collections of comics stories are common. Comics terminology is exasperating. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • " Archie Comics found the characters' appearances still too close to their copyrighted properties, and threatened another lawsuit."
There is a comma separating the two verbs in a compound predicate.
Fixed. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Kurtzman and Elder settled out of court by handing over the copyright to the story. Archie Comics held on to the copyright and refused to allow the story to be republished."
Consider: "Kurtzman and Elder settled out of court by handing over the copyright, which Comics held on to while refusing to allow the story to be republished", or similar.
  • "Shortly after, Kurtzman began working for Hefner again"
Consider swapping out "shorty after" for "soon afterwards", or similar.
Done, and moved to the end of the sentence. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In June 1983 Denis Kitchen requested the right to reprint the story as part of a planned Goodman Beaver collection."
I noticed that elsewhere you seem to favour the use of a comma after an introductory phrase, but not always. There use is optional, but the article should be consistent.
I think my style has evolved from the "commas everywhere" one I learned in school to a "destroy all commas" approach I've picked up at Wikipedia. This article has likley suffered from being partially written before my conversion. I've removed one other instance I've found—feel free to squish any others you see. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "though he said that towards the end of the run he was getting tired of the painstaking work he put into drawing it"
Consider: "though he said that towards the end of the run he was getting tired of the painstaking work he put into the drawings", or similar.
Done. Curly Turkey (gobble) 00:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GabeMc (talk|contribs) 23:37, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - It's an excellent article that's well-written, well-researched, and comprehensive. The prose is engaging and a joy to read. GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:04, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome, Curly Turkey! Thanks for all your great work! GabeMc (talk|contribs) 17:04, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments -- Since I have a FAC of my own open at the moment I'm recusing myself from delegate duties here and there to review...

  • Not sure we really need naive and optimistic linked in the Overview section... More importantly, the statement that Goodman Beaver is "oblivious to the degeneration around him" seems to me to contradict somewhat the bit about being "disillusioned by the depravity they confront in the world".
    • Dropped the links, and I've aletered the last sentence to "who end disillusioned". Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:32, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • Tks, although I think in normal conversion we'd say "end up disillusioned". Of course that may not be considered encyclopedic so perhaps "who become disillusioned", or maybe you can think of something even better... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:20, 23 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the risk of sounding both naive and optimistic myself, do the sources go into the use of asterisks for names in the Tarzan story? To me it looks like a humorous reaction to the lawsuit arising from the Playboy/Archie parody, except that it was published before that...
    • It does make it seem like they were aware of the legal issues before they were sued, doesn't it? None of the sources I have so much as mention the asterisks. A search for "Goodman Beaver asterisk" nets a couple of hits that do, such as this one, but "the asterisks protect trademark, preserve universality, encourage lewdness" seems less a statement of fact than a wisecrack. Curly Turkey (gobble) 21:32, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Aside from that, prose, structure, referencing and level of detail seem fine; not sure if anyone did an image review along the way though. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:35, 22 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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