Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Irresistible (Jessica Simpson song)/archive3

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Courcelles 05:14, 6 May 2011 [1].

Irresistible (Jessica Simpson song)[edit]

Irresistible (Jessica Simpson song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Novice7 (talk) 14:04, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I believe the issues raised in the last nomination have been addressed. I've been working on this article for quite some time now, and feel it's ready for another FA process. I'll also try my very best to address any issues remaining unnoticed. Thank you. Novice7 (talk) 14:04, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Images/sound files check out. The non-free content clearly meets our criteria and solid rationales are presented; other images are free and well documented. J Milburn (talk) 16:05, 13 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for reviewing. Novice7 (talk) 11:01, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done (were an issue last time, will check within the next few days)

  • Be consistent in whether you include locations for publishers
I think I've fixed them. Can you point out a few examples, if possible?
  • In general, printed source titles (magazines, etc) should be italicized
Done.
  • Ref 20: page(s)?
It is an Audio Biography. I've provided the time too.
  • Watch for small inconsistencies like doubled periods, inconsistent wikilinking, etc
Removed and fixed.
Not fixed - examples are refs 67 and 62. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:52, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have fixed them. Please do tell me if there are any inconsistencies. Novice7 (talk) 10:21, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Give state instead of country names for US-based publishers
I believe they're fixed. Please do tell me if they're not.
Sorry, but they're not. Most of the CD/DVD references use only "United States", and the two Further reading sources give City, US instead of City, State (or even City, State, US if you think confusion is likely). Nikkimaria (talk) 12:55, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I changed all of them to City, State. Should I add Country too (although most are based in the US)? Novice7 (talk) 14:06, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
So long as you're giving states, I wouldn't bother with US; for non-US, probably provide countries for lesser-known places. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:52, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I will. Thank you. Novice7 (talk) 14:58, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can you justify your use of this, given that it is a gossip site? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:08, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for reviewing. I have used PopSugar to source the performance and the wardrobe. The MTV source covers it, but the Sugar source says more about it. Novice7 (talk) 04:59, 14 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Looks better, although I still haven't done spotchecks. As a procedural note, could you provide diffs to the notifications you mentioned below? Nikkimaria (talk) 14:52, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Added diffs. Novice7 (talk) 14:58, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks/WP:V

  • "There was a really good flow to [that] song" - why the square brackets? "that" is included in the original quote. Also, please see MOS:ELLIPSIS (Rechecked 14:51, 4 May 2011 (UTC), still issues with ellipses and bracketing)
Can you provide me with one or two examples from the article? Novice7 (talk) 16:14, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I believe they're fixed. Novice7 (talk) 15:04, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Musically, it is a moderately-paced dance-pop song with R&B influences" - source calls it "R&B lite", but I don't see anything about the pace or dance-pop
  • "breathy vocals" is a direct quote from the source
  • an ode to love "at step one" - "ode to love" is also a direct quote from the source and should be within the quotation marks. Please check for other instances of this
  • This link appears to be broken
  • "It samples Club Nouveau's "Why You Treat Me So Bad" (1987) and Kool & the Gang's "Jungle Boogie" (1973)." - source only mentions the second of these
  • "soulful ornamental vocals and Giorgio Moroder-styled disco strings" vs "soulful ornamental vocals and Giorgio Moroder-style disco strings" - overly close paraphrasing, check for other instances
Added correct references, fixed quotes and reworded. As for the pluggedin.ca link, did you mean pluggedin.com? Novice7 (talk) 15:27, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I see - it's a location-specific site. When you click it you get US, I get Canadian. In that case, could you provide an archiveurl? Nikkimaria (talk) 12:35, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't know it was location specific too. Added archivelink. Novice7 (talk) 14:57, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose until these issues are addressed. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:29, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think you might be misinterpreting this source. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:51, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I thought they're commenting positively on the video for not following the same style as Spears and Aguilera... Novice7 (talk) 16:14, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Changed. Novice7 (talk) 15:04, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • "Anders Bagge and Arnthor Birgisson developed the song's and co-wrote it with Sheyne." - "song's" here doesn't make sense.
  • "while they criticized Simpson's singing, the sexual nature of the song's lyrics and its digital quality." - "digital quality" here is confusing. At first reading, I was wondering if they were commenting on an audio format? (I assume they're complaining about too many digital sound effects).
  • "The song peaked at number eleven on the UK Singles Chart, and at number fifteen on the United States Billboard Hot 100. It also reached the top twenty in nine other countries." - These two sentences would flow better if combined.
  • "Simpson traveled back to Sony Music Studios, New York City to record the additional vocals." - 'the' is not needed here before 'additional'.
  • "She enters a building to fulfill her mission, which apparently is to compromise evidence in a laboratory." - wording here doesn't seem very encyclopedic.
  • "she has completed her mission." how do you know? (WP:OR?)

Jujutacular talk 16:27, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so much! I have fixed the issues. Novice7 (talk) 03:55, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I am satisfied with the prose of the article. Jujutacular talk 11:47, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. (Diff – [2])Novice7 (talk) 12:23, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Support - Reads nicely, sourcing looks good, nice coverage and length, good use of photos. I see no reason not to give my support. Nice work :)--CallMeNathan • Talk2Me 08:09, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much! Novice7 (talk) 12:23, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Amazing work done here. Definitely FA material! I might go through the article tomorrow and see if I can find anything needing fixing. At quick glance, I was just wondering if lyrics are allowed to be linked in external links? From my understanding, there aren't. And also, the VH1 video says it isn't available in my region, so I think you should probably use a link to YouTube or something, where everyone can have access to it. ℥nding·start 03:50, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, thank you! I was hesitant to add the lyrics at first but, when I looked at WP:SONG#LYRICS it stated they can be added. Rhapsody posts officially licensed lyrics (Gracenote), so I added it in. As for the music video, I'll replace it. Thanks again. Novice7 (talk) 04:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comments - First off all, great work on this article. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 05:38, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • "A mid-tempo dance-pop song with R&B and funk influences, the song is composed in the key of C major, and features a beat similar to that of Pink's song "There You Go", released in 2000." Does not flow right, i hate when paragraphs start with "A". I would change this sentence to [...] "The song is a [...] influences, it is composed [...]"
    • "and ARIA year-end" change to "Australian year-end"
    • "A music video for the So So Def remix featured scenes by Dupri and Lil' Bow Wow inter-cut with scenes by Simpson" i think you mean "with scenes of Simpson".
    • Chart performance, what does an image of her performing "Rockin" have to do with this article?
As there are no pictures from the DreamChaser tour, I added this image in to show the change in her style. Should I remove it? Novice7 (talk) 06:10, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes please remove it as it doesn't relate to this article directly. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 06:33, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Im not seeing anything else really but i havnt checked your reference formatting yet, i will do that at a later time. (Ping me once these issues are addressed please) - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 05:38, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

All done. Thank you so much! Novice7 (talk) 06:10, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support - I failed to find any outstanding issues with is article so i will support it. Great work. - (CK)Lakeshade - talk2me - 06:33, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've removed the image. Novice7 (talk) 06:46, 22 April 2011 (UTC) (Note that I had notified Lakeshade of the nomination. I tried my best not to canvass for a s/o. Thanks. Diff – [3])[reply]

Support - After issues pointed out by fellow editors, I don't see anything wrong with this nom, however I would put (pictured) in Aguilera's caption. Thanks for notifying me Novice? Candyo32 14:18, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I have added that. (Please note that I had notified Candyo32 of the nomination Diff – [4])
  • Support - Still convinced that the prose is close enough. Overall a great article. Nice work. ceranthor 15:16, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Novice7 (talk) 04:17, 23 April 2011 (UTC) (I had notified. Diff – [5])[reply]
  • It is a pretty good article, but I do have some issues with it.
  • Put a comma after Jessica Simpson and before released in the lead.
Done.
  • Put the image in live performances to the left per WP:IMAGES: "It is often preferable to place images of faces so that the face or eyes look toward the text."
Done.
  • Also, what happened to the other images that were here before?
I was asked to remove it.
Why? -- ipodnano05 * leave@message 22:08, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Because it added nothing to the article/section. Novice7 (talk) 05:57, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove links for singer-songwriter, Colombian, and min-skirt.
Done.
  • Per WP:BADCHARTS, removed information about video countdowns.
WP:BADCHARTS says nothing about video countdowns. I believe that video countdown shows are fine because there are no sales charts or similar for videos. Adabow (talk · contribs) 01:31, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I added it in to show the success of the video. Novice7 (talk) 04:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Adabow, it says "Viacom/MTV Networks Countdowns (VH1 VSpot and CMT Top 20 Countdowns): Both programs formerly used a mix of network airplay and radio popularity with some minor viewer feedback to compile their lists, but now only depend entirely on viewer text messaging and internet voting to compile their lists and encourage multiple votes, along with a limited pool of videos chosen by viewers to fill the list." As for its inclusion for success, I don't think it is needed. -- ipodnano05 * leave@message 22:08, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Were the rules changed before 2002? Adabow (talk · contribs) 00:38, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have no idea. -- ipodnano05 * leave@message 16:46, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
What if I keep the Billboard sourced MTV Countdown and remove MuchMusic one? Novice7 (talk) 16:56, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Both are fine. -- ipodnano05 * leave@message 23:09, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
You mean, I can remove the MuchMusic source or keep them both? Novice7 (talk) 04:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have not removed them. Is it okay? Novice7 (talk) 08:26, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead and the article ins't cohesive in release years. For example, it says "1973 song 'Jungle Boogie'" and uses parenthesis to indicate the release year of Lizzie McGuire and says "released in 2001" for Festivalbar.
Done.
There is still differences between the years of tours and more. I suggest using the brackets option as it is the most common in the article. -- ipodnano05 * leave@message 22:08, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Thank you. (Diff of notification – [6]) Novice7 (talk) 04:27, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, please paraphrase the giant block quote on the first section.
I feel Birgisson's opinion is relevant in this case, and quoted material expresses his views more clearly. That's why I kept the quote, but removed the blockquote. Novice7 (talk) 16:56, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, it is better to leave it as a blockquote. -- ipodnano05 * leave@message 23:09, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Should I? I mean, I was thinking of removing the blockquote myself as it had many insignificant statements. It has been cut down to include only the important sentences. Novice7 (talk) 04:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
If you're not going to paraphrase it and it's that long, then yes. -- ipodnano05 * leave@message 19:56, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Converted back. Novice7 (talk) 05:29, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In late 2001, Simpson traveled to Cancún, Mexico, and sang the song as part of MTV's Spring Break program." No need to say she traveled. Just say the program was in Cancun.
  • "at The Monkey Club, Paris, France" -> "at The Monkey Club in Paris, France".
  • "along with "I Wanna Love You Forever", "I Think I'm in Love with You", and "A Little Bit".[89]" I think its irrelevant to list the other songs she performed.
  • Why do you capitalized the certification level? I don't think gold should be capitalized.
  • "An editor for The Advocate" -> "An editor of The Advocate" to keep consistency with the rest of the section.
  • Why is DreamChaser italicized? Tours shouldn't be italicized. And refer to it by its whole name. -- ipodnano05 * leave@message 22:11, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
All done. Novice7 (talk) 07:59, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Novice7 (talk) 07:59, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Now that all my comments were tkae care of, I support this article becoming an FA. -- ipodnano05 * leave@message 22:36, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Ipodnano05. Novice7 (talk) 07:33, 30 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the issue of the release date arised in the previous FAC has not been dealt with. The claim "Columbia Records first released "Irresistible" on May 30, 2001" both in the text and the lead is unsourced. It is currently referenced with a release date for Amazon France that only represents Amazon(one of many outlets) and only represents France(one of many countries releasing the song), it's not a high quality source even if it contained the claim first released of 'Irresistible' which it does not. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 03:06, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Added Sony Music, Columbia sources and removed Amazon refs. {{Infobox single}} states "earliest known date". As Infobox and lead should be consistent, I used the first date (now June 25, 2001 – verified by Sony Music reference). As for Amazon, the release dates there are provided by the label. I feel it is reliable enough for sourcing release dates. Novice7 (talk) 04:54, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Replacing the release date "earliest known date" with June 25, 2001 when just yesterday it was May 30, 2001 for Amazon France screams an obvious false claim because May 30, 2001 (a known release date) is clearly earlier then June 25, 2001. In respect of the release date this article has consistantly failed the FACR criteria 1. (c) well-researched(Not to mention the GA Factually accurate criteria) and moves between different versions of unverified claims. The editors involved need to stick to the facts and stop making up misleading claims and if they can't be suitably referenced remove them from the article. It addition, a release date meaning of "earliest known date" is not in the article, readers should not have to read the template documentation(!) to understand what is meant and so any meaning should be clearly visible to the reader in the article possibly via a NB footnote. Amazon release dates only apply to Amazon, to imply any more is improper synthesis. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 01:24, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
After a research of over two hours, I have added reliable, label sources to support the release date. I removed Amazon.com reference, because I found many threads regarding its reliability. As this is an FA candidate, I believe it has to be sourced by reliable sources. I actually researched a lot (both online and offline sources – books, magazines and newspapers). I don't want to make false claims, I added the release dates from Amazon. I thought it was reliable as many FAs use it to source release dates. I have now changed the reference to reliable, Sony Music references. I previously used Amazon, because I could not find any label source. I won't change it again, ad it is correctly sourced now. Please don't take me wrong. Thanks. Novice7 (talk) 05:29, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Now we have a new date of April 12, 2001 that is sourced to Sony UK and Ireland and it's use in the article is indicated as earliest known date that is better. It's a little uncomfortable that the Sony archive doesn't indicate what the date means but am prepared to accept it now and therefore strike my oppose. Note that previous release dates used in this article including the point it became GA listed are apparently incorrect. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 00:54, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for adding the note. Yes, for the GA I used Allmusic source, but it was not clear. It just said "Import CD". I was asked to remove it later. Novice7 (talk) 06:48, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria's oppose was for close paraphrasing and adherence to sources-- that needs to be examined by other reviewers and resolved. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:59, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose 1a: Sorry, but the prose is not up to standard for a FA. I've checked the lead and first section and there are multiple prose issues. I appreciate that a huge amount of work has gone into this, but it needs a thorough copy-edit by an uninvolved editor (probably someone unfamiliar with the topic) and this is best done away from FAC. Here are some examples, but they are samples only.

  • There are 20 sentences in the lead: 10 begin with "the", a further eight begin with a simple subject-verb structure. This is not professional quality prose. The first section of the main article seems to follow the same pattern, suggesting this is a problem throughout the article.
  • Following from this, the sentences are choppy and do not flow. The ideas seem to jump around.
  • "released as the lead single from her second studio album of the same name (2001). The single was first released...": Repetition of single in close proximity.
  • "Work on "Irresistible" commenced after singer-songwriter Pamela Sheyne proposed the title": This suggests no-one had thought anything about the song, someone came up with a random title and then they wrote the song afterwards. Is this correct?
  • There are multiple instances of redundancy in the prose: for example, "The lyrics are more sexually suggestive than those of Simpson's previous songs".
  • "Critics gave "Irresistible" mixed to negative reviews": What are "mixed to negative reviews"? They are mixed, or negative.
  • "Some praised the song for its themes of new-found love and its production, while others criticized Simpson's singing, the sexual nature of the song's lyrics, and the over-usage of digital sound manipulators.": These are not mixed negative, they are a mixture of positive and negative. Also, an idea of quantity would be good. Were more critics positive or negative?
  • "Despite missing the top twenty in Australia, it was certified gold by the Australian Recording Industry Association (ARIA)." This needs a little elaboration to explain the connection, for example "... it sold enough copies to be certified gold ..."
  • "Tommy Mottola, Sony Music Chairman and CEO, was conversant with Bagge...": Conversant does not mean "have a conversation with", as it seems to be used here.
  • "Birgisson said that they wrote "Irresistible" afresh with Simpson in mind": This suggests that they wrote the song and then wrote it again to make it work for Simpson.
  • "After recording the primary vocals at Murlyn Studio Group, Simpson traveled back to Sony Music Studios, New York City to record additional vocals.[6] All the vocals were recorded...": Repetition of "record" and "vocals". --Sarastro1 (talk) 21:12, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'll withdraw the nomination and work on the article to make it better. Thanks. Novice7 (talk) 06:11, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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