Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Jamiroquai/archive4

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 10 July 2021 [1].

Jamiroquai[edit]

Nominator(s): 웃O O 11:15, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the English funk and acid jazz band Jamiroquai. They are well known for their music video of "Virtual Insanity" and the song "Canned Heat", the latter which appeared in Napoleon Dynamite. My previous attempts to nominate the article in 2019 failed and understandably so, as it had cluttered writing and excessive detail, but has now improved in comparison. I've worked on this since 2018, which has been challenging but rewarding, as I've learned alot from it. This article is in hopes that it will represent the band's artistry and success above all the tabloids and sensationalism that overshadowed them. Thank you and I hope this passes. Submitting again due to lack of feedback. 웃O O 11:15, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review–pass[edit]

I would use an image in "Stage and visuals" section. (t · c) buidhe 12:40, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, though I'd rather this [2] be the infobox pic and this [3] as the stage and visuals pic to vary the timelines and his headgear. 웃O O 13:01, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Any shot that emphasizes the headgear may no longer be de minimis (see here) and you have to worry about copyright issues. (t · c) buidhe 13:06, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the headgear doesn't have to be necessary, I still would like for the infobox to give a clear shot of the frontman at least. 웃O O 13:51, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe File:Jamiroquai - The O2 - Sunday 3rd December 2017 JamiroquaiO2031217-15 (27352016619).jpg or File:Jamiroquai - The O2 - Sunday 3rd December 2017 JamiroquaiO2031217-21 (25262574408).jpg as the infobox image? (t · c) buidhe 13:55, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Buidhe, I actually decided to change your first choice to this 2018 photo [4], which served as the infobox pic before. You can revert if you're not satisfied. 웃O O 00:08, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi buidhe, is this ok by you? Gog the Mild (talk) 19:58, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Hurricane Noah[edit]

Resolved comments from Hurricane Noah

Hello, I have a few comments for you below to improve your article. I am not an expert on music articles, but I will give it a whirl. I have a nomination up currently and would appreciate it if you were able to review it. Noah^Talk 19:04, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

funk/jazz movement Could you replace the slash with a word per MOS:SLASH? Noah^Talk 19:04, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The band has sold more than 26 million albums worldwide as of 2017 Anything more up-to-date? Noah^Talk 19:04, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The music video for its lead single, "Virtual Insanity", also contributed to the band's success, and was named Video of the Year at the 1997 MTV Video Music Awards, and the song earned the band a Grammy Award in 1998. Run-on sentence. I suggest changing to: "The music video for its lead single, "Virtual Insanity", also contributed to the band's success. The song was named Video of the Year at the 1997 MTV Video Music Awards and earned the band a Grammy Award in 1998." Noah^Talk 19:04, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
As a prominent component within the London-based funk/acid-jazz Same thing here on the legacy section with the slash. Noah^Talk 19:04, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
They sold 4.4 million albums in the UK and had US sales of 2.5 million copies sold as of 2010 This seems really out of date since it was 11 years ago. Noah^Talk 19:04, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
FN66: Just judging from the title, it appears to be in German, but the ref doesn't state this. Noah^Talk 19:04, 21 May 2021 (UTC)'[reply]

Copyedited the article per these requests. There aren't any updates regarding the sales in 2017 nor the individual sales in 2010. 웃O O 23:53, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I support this nomination. Noah^Talk 00:03, 22 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from K. Peake[edit]

Resolved comments from K.Peake

Sorry about taking so long to comment, I kept on forgetting and was busy quite a bit with my job at Maccy's. For publications like CNN and MTV that are not italicised, you should cite them using the publisher parameter instead. Consequence of Sound has now changed its title to Consequence so update accordingly, plus cite Paper magazine as Paper and pipe to Paper (magazine). You have written New Musical Express instead of NME at one point in the references; only use the latter for consistency. AllMusic should also be stylised in the correct format throughout, while every The Telegraph reference needs url-access=subscription due to the website having these rules consistently. Pipe Interview Magazine to Interview (magazine), plus are you sure Dezeen is a reliable source for a FA? Regarding the body, I believe that the last para of legacy is too short and should be merged with the above one. Furthermore, you should at least give an overview in the awards and nominations section, also not all forms of media should be aligned to the right since this looks tedious for a FA. --K. Peake 08:02, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just so happy you commented! 😊 The ref format issues should all be addressed, but I couldn't find what you mentioned with AllMusic. Dezeen seems to have alot of high regard, [5] they were mentioned by The Independent, The Times and Time magazine. I merged the artists influenced by the band and I created a summary of the more relevant awards in the UK and US. 웃O O 19:32, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This looks better now, but ref 29 – you have stylized as Allmusic, plus it should be wikilinked there and nowhere else since that's the first instance. Also, you missed citing CNN as publisher for ref 84 and MTV News for ref 9, as well as not getting Consequence for refs 34 and 48. --K. Peake 06:31, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Should be all fixed now. 웃O O 06:47, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes you have gone through everything, though there was a formatting issue with the first Consequence ref that I fixed and I will now support! --K. Peake 07:42, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Parsecboy[edit]

Quite a few dupe links in the article that need to be removed - if you don't happen to have a tool installed, User:Evad37/duplinks-alt is the one I use
Some refs are out of order (for example: [28][59][64][61])
"Jay Kay was sending songs to record companies" - when? You mention a single released in 1986, but the header says 1992 - there's a bit of vagueness here
Lots of things like "Other writers said", "some critics accusing ", etc. strike me as fairly WP:WEASELy - it would be best to be specific
"They sold 4.4 million albums in the UK and had US sales of 2.5 million copies sold as of 2010." - what's the purpose of including this? We've already said what their sales by 2017 were

If you have a moment to spare, I also have a FAC that could use a review from someone less familiar with the topic. Thanks. Parsecboy (talk) 20:42, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I addressed most of these comments. As for the formation section, maybe the solution is to instead rename the subheader as "Formation in 1992". And the following comment, when it comes to reviews of entertainment, they tend to be best written this way to condense what critics often point out, per WP:Reception. Just as long as the information has sources. Thank you for commenting! I'll be sure to check out your candidate. 웃O O 23:09, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough on the reviews thing - I'm not familiar with how these articles are written ;) As for the formation section, I wonder if it's worth adding a "In the early 1990s, Jay Kay was..." Parsecboy (talk) 19:24, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Or maybe "by the early 1990s" when thinking about that 1986 single. 웃O O 20:24, 15 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Aoba47[edit]

Resolved comments from Aoba47

For this part in the lead, in the London-based funk and jazz movement, do you mean jazz in general or specifically acid jazz? If it is the first option, I would link jazz, but if it is the second option, I would clarify that.
The lead has Acid Jazz records, when I believe it should be Acid Jazz Records. The Records part is capitalized already in the body of the article.
Apologies in advance if this is obvious, but for this part, When he had it studio-recorded, is it necessary to specify that it was "studio-recorded" as opposed to just "recorded"?
It may be helpful to wikilink demo tape. It might be obvious to most people, but I could still see some people not being entirely certain on what it means.
For this part, but would share his royalties with his band members in accordance to their contributions, could you clarify what you mean by "contributions" as it is rather nebulous? Is it referring to like song-writing and/or production contributions or like performance contributions?
I would link world music just to help readers who may not be familiar with the term.
I have a question about this part, Zender left Jamiroquai due to conflicts with Kay. Do we have any more information about these conflicts?
I would link Congress Theater in the image caption since it does have an article.
I have a question about Gig in the Sky. It is not a suggestion or anything really necessary for the FAC. It is more of a question I had while reading this part. I thought it a little odd that a group who had songs about environmental issues would do a concert on a private plane as those are terrible for the environment. Was there any coverage on this contradiction?
I would link funk rock.
For the quote box in the "Lyrics" subsection, shouldn't "Virtual Insanity" be in single quotation marks since it is a song title within a quote?
I think it may be beneficial to link "Native American rights" to the Native American civil rights article. It may also be useful to link "youth protests", but I am honestly not sure what it is referring to (which is why I think a link would be useful).
First Nations is linked twice in the article.

Great work with the article. I have honestly never heard of this band, but I enjoyed reading the article. If possible, I would greatly appreciate any help with my current FAC, which is only very tangentially related to this as it is a sitcom involving a radio station. Either way, I will support the article for promotion once all my comments are addressed. I hope you have a great weekend! Aoba47 (talk) 19:51, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I addressed most of these comments. I clarified the contribution thing to indicate that they work as musicians. For Gig in the Sky, I don't recall seeing any coverage about the contradiction. Though similar comments are already covered with sports cars in the lyrics section. For Zender leaving, information regarding the conflicts is all unclear. The Independent article says he wanted to quote "do his own thing" but where did the statement come from? Only the Rocky Mountain News article where Toby Smith is interviewed states there is an unspecified conflict but I'm unable to access the interview to re-read it. 웃O O 21:26, 11 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the responses. Your response about Gig in the Sky makes sense to me and I for some reason completely missed the sports car part so I am glad that I was not the only one who was thinking about this. The Zender coverage should be fine in the article. If the information is not known, then this is the best option of addressing it. I support the article for promotion. Again, I really enjoyed reading through this one. Great work! Aoba47 (talk) 02:05, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Z1720[edit]

Resolved comments from Z1720

Please consider me a non-expert.

"The band's output blends their anything-goes approach" Anything-goes sounds a little like MOS:IDIOM and I am not sure what is meant by this. Can this be clarified in the lede?

Anything-goes takes from a quotation in Musical style and influences. They basically do whatever they want. I'm not sure what other words to use in this context. 웃O O 06:27, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Since "anything goes" is a commentator's descriptor, and not a musical term, I don't think it can be used here. What about, "The band's music blends aggressive dance rhythms and 1970s influenced sounds with sounds and instruments that are not limited by genre." Do you feel that information is verified by the sources? Z1720 (talk) 16:01, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

While not explicitly stated by alot of sources, it's verifiable that they did explore musical styles and genres within the article's body. I changed the sentence to your suggestion. 웃O O 19:05, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

" with three of their albums charting at number one in the UK, including Emergency on Planet Earth (1993), Synkronized (1999), A Funk Odyssey (2001), and additionally their greatest hits compilation." Three albums are mentioned to chart to number one, but four albums are named. Also, this sentence is quite long and I would split it in two.

A compilation album is different from a studio album. Thinking about it, that might not be so important. 웃O O 06:27, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"When he had it recorded, Kay fought with his producer" Did this fight happen during the recording process or afterward?

After. 웃O O 06:27, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note A talks about rumours of Kay's rejection. Why is this important information for an article about Jamiroquai?

An IP kept adding this to the article even though I kept saying it was better off in Kay's article. See here: [6] At that point I gave up trying to debate this person and left that there. 웃O O 06:27, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I decided to remove it. 웃O O 03:55, 30 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"so Smith compromised his playing" What does "compromising his playing" mean?

He changed his playing style for the band. 웃O O 06:27, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Can "compromised his playing" be changed to "changed his play style"? Z1720 (talk) 16:01, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I already changed it. 웃O O 19:05, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"who left the band in the following year for paternal reasons." Can this be more specific? Was a child born that he wanted to take care of?

He did have a child that time. He left to take care of his family. 웃O O 06:27, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"sound with[…] EDM, soul and trap sounds" I don't think there are supposed to be square brackets around the ellipses, per MOS:ELLIPSIS

Will fix. 웃O O 06:27, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Why is "Current members" uncited? What verifies that these are the current members?

There's a ref in the history body, but I could add it there too. 웃O O 06:27, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ref 24 does not use the sfn template, but other references do. This is creating a HARV error in the Sources section. For consistency's sake, I recommend that it uses the template.

I missed that. Thank you! 웃O O 06:27, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Those are my comments! I will re-review when the above are resolved. Z1720 (talk) 05:16, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Some comments above. Sorry it took so long to respond; I forgot about this FAC. If I don't respond in a few days, please ping me. Z1720 (talk) 16:01, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My concerns have been addressed, and I support. Z1720 (talk) 19:42, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

Spotchecks not done. Version reviewed

The list of genres in the infobox is different from the list of genres in Artistry. Why?

The infobox guidelines ([7]) say it should have a minimum of four genres. Should more or less be included? 웃O O 19:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It says generally two to four, but if this particular case has more then it would make sense to include more. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:00, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source for the list of labels? Not all of these are mentioned in the text

Were the ones removed incorrect? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:00, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Columbia issued their greatest hits album and the others are for American releases. They could be brought back in, but verifiablly. 웃O O 05:07, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"The band's music blends aggressive dance rhythms and 1970s influenced sounds with sounds and instruments that are not limited by genre" - part of this is a critic's opinion, and part I don't see in text.

the part where it says "not limited by genre" used to have something like "the band takes an anything goes approach" which is from another critic's opinion, but a reviewer found it to be poor writing. I suppose this statement does feel a bit convoluted. I could instead write that the band started off by building their acid jazz sound in their beginning years, as it is much more verifiable in the body. 웃O O 19:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"it listed in the Guinness World Records as the best-selling funk album in history". Is this meant to be it is listed, or it was listed?

It now implies that they currently hold this record. 웃O O 19:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Kay's manager scouted keyboardist Toby Smith, but was rejected because he played in an acid house style Kay disliked, so Smith compromised his playing style to join the group again as Kay's songwriting partner" - is there an independent source for this claim?

No I'm afraid. 웃O O 19:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, does it warrant inclusion? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:00, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll cut out the part that appears "contentious". 웃O O 05:07, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Archiving and retrieval date isn't needed for GBooks links
"The album's complex songwriting caused Sony to tell Jamiroquai that "none of [the tracks] sounded like singles"," - is there an independent source for this claim?

No I'm afraid. 웃O O 19:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, does it warrant inclusion? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:00, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll cut out the part that appears "contentious". 웃O O 05:07, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fn12 is missing publication date. Ditto FN17, check for others

Still issues here - eg FN60. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:00, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll look harder. 웃O O 05:07, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

FN21: OCC is a publisher not a work
Indian Country Today, conversely, should be italicized
What makes Consequence a high-quality reliable source? Highsnobiety? Vinyl Me Please?

Consequence is New York based, and had been featured in Rotten Tomatoes and Time Entertainment. They've also been involved with the Chicago Film Critics Association and Sony Music. Consequence was formerly named Consequence of Sound. While Highsnobiety started off as a blog, they've extended to London and New York City and have over 100 staffs. They've documented counterfeit brands in South Korea and won a Webby Award for Cultural Blog/Website. The interviewer in Vinyl Me Please has contributed to NPR, The New York Times, Pitchfork Music and Washington Post among others. 웃O O 19:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Being located in a particular place and having a high number of staff aren't characteristics that contribute to reliability. See here for guidance. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:00, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm assuming you mean Highsnobiety. They best I can find are these NYT interviews of their editors. [8][9][10]. I also found this Tech Crunch article which I'm not sure will benefit much. [11]

Those NYT articles suggest the source may have some expertise in fashion, but that's not what it's being used for here? Nikkimaria (talk) 00:03, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I was unable to find anything else supporting highsnobiety as this exceptional source, so I'm letting it go. 웃O O 01:38, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

How are you ordering Sources?
Be consistent in when you include publication location

I was completely unaware that this was included when I was automating some of the citations. I actually don't have knowledge of this feature and I can't find where it's used. 웃O O 19:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For example, Footman includes it but the other Sources do not. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:00, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Be consistent in when you include |via=

I haven't seen any other citations I thought needed via. 웃O O 19:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For example, some Google Books references include it and others do not. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:00, 5 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Be consistent in when you include |ISSN=

I removed all of these. Again, they must have sprung up when doing automatic citations. 웃O O 19:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fn53 is missing author. Ditto FN57, check for others
Fn55 is missing page(s). Nikkimaria (talk) 01:54, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I hopefully resolved most of these issues. Let me know if I missed anything. 웃O O 19:51, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Nikkimaria, how's it looking now? Gog the Mild (talk) 19:32, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:25, 10 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.