Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Lady of Quality/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was not promoted by Karanacs 15:49, 22 September 2010 [1].

Lady of Quality[edit]

Featured article candidates/Lady of Quality/archive1

Nominator(s): Karanacs (talk) 20:47, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If you were running away from a forced marriage, would you take your almost-fiance with you? If you were the heroine of a romance novel, would you turn down the hero's marriage proposal? Join me in exploring the antics showcased in a classic Regency romance. Lady of Quality was the last book written by Georgette Heyer. It's fairly short, but comprehensive–I know of no other research that exists on this book. User:Malleus Fatuorum promoted it to GA earlier this year and did some ~~light~~ copyediting (which gives him the highest edit count - I worked in big chunks), and provided other support during that process. Thanks for taking a look! Karanacs (talk) 20:47, 10 September 2010 (UTC) edited Karanacs (talk) 13:43, 11 September 2010 (UTC) [reply]

Support. As Karanacs says, I gave this article a bit of a leathering during its GA review, but it was little more than moving a few commas around. I looked for additional sourcing on critical reviews, but this type of novel tends not to get much scholarly attention, or indeed any critical attention. I was satisfied then, and I'm satisfied now, that this is just about as good an account of one of Georgette Heyer's later novels that's likely to be found anywhere, and that it fully meets the FA criteria. Malleus Fatuorum 21:35, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment—no dab links, no dead external links. Ucucha 22:08, 10 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Image review one copyright image with appropriate fair use rationale, no problems Jimfbleak - talk to me? 09:54, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment—I haven't given it a very thorough read-through, but I notice that there are very few internal links. I count 21, which is an unusually low number for an article of this length; I would imagine that for an article about a romance novel taking place in the 19th Century, which has a comprehensive plot summary, there would be a relatively large number of wiki-links. ☻☻☻Sithman VIII !!☻☻☻ 16:33, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Which of the FA criteria demand that an article has a high number of internal links? Malleus Fatuorum 19:02, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - I never said any of them did; I just thought it was unusual, so naturally I felt the need to inquire.☻☻☻Sithman VIII !!☻☻☻ 20:29, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - We shouldn't be adding links for the sake of it. What unlinked terms do you think will significantly aid readers' understanding of the topic? Dabomb87 (talk) 20:47, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I trust that it's comprehensive, and I remember (read it before, probably from Malleus' talk page) the prose in this is exceptionally good. A beautifully concise and well-written article. ceranthor 22:10, 11 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support - nice work — Rlevse • Talk • 00:45, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment 2c: Might want to change the bibliography page range indicators to "pp." to match your style, similarly Toomey, Philippa (19 October 1972), deserves a "p." Otherwise, beautiful. Fifelfoo (talk) 02:00, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support this is a good article unlike the many crap ones i've seen 86.141.247.236 (talk) 02:15, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:38, 13 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. On a quick read this seems very thin and generic; I see little which differentiates this novel from any of Heyer's later works. Can you get hold of the notes from the Heyer conference held in 2009 (Re-reading Georgette Heyer)? There was a paper on "lesbian anxiety" in Lady of Quality; there's a brief summary here. The plot summary doesn't mention Maria Farlow, a Miss Bates-like character (mentioned Hodge p203) who is one of the unusual features of the novel compared with the usual formula. Also Hodge has some criticisms on the novel's pacing and "one really failed scene" (p202). Espresso Addict (talk) 19:39, 14 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you so much for bringing this conference to my attention! I have emailed the professor who organized it (who also happens to have presented the session on this book) to see if any of the papers have been published, and whether I might be able to get a copy of them. I also no longer have a copy of the Hodge book. If I can't get the information from these sources within the next day or two I'll withdraw the nomination. Karanacs (talk) 15:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I have a copy of the presentation now, but according to the author, it has not been formally published. I've never worked with this type of source, so I've put a question at RSN on whether it would be considered a reliable source. Comments welcome at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#Conference_papers. Karanacs (talk) 14:35, 16 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The RSN discussion appears to have ended [2], and it appears to me that the general thought is that the conference paper should not be included as it has never been published - one would have to email the author to verify the information. I did more searching this weekend and found a university master's thesis that was just published. I'm going to incorporate that information into the article today. Karanacs (talk) 14:30, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral ~~The entire plot section is unreferenced~~Apparently plots aren't sourced.. Sentences like "Rather than marry Ninian, as her guardian wished, Lucilla ran away, and Ninian is escorting her to ensure her safe arrival in Bath" are confusing (tense). "Carleton proposes marriage, but Annis, unwilling to relinquish her independence, refuses" could be restructured to avoid the single word fragment. "As the story opens, Annis Wychwood, a wealthy, beautiful, and intelligent woman, reaches the age of majority, giving her greater control over her personal and financial affairs" reads like a list. "Soon after their arrival, members of the household contract influenza" seems a bit abrupt. Aiken (talk) 14:13, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Plot sections are very frequently unreferenced, as the source for the plot is the work itself. Malleus Fatuorum 14:42, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - Oh! I didn't think primary sources were encouraged. I stand corrected. Aiken (talk) 14:56, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - In general they're not of course, but this is an exception. The only time I include citations in a plot summary is if I'm using a direct quotation. Malleus Fatuorum 14:58, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- As it was probably my crappy copyediting during the GA review that introduced the sentences you've identified as being troublesome I felt honour-bound to try and fix them. See what you think now. Malleus Fatuorum 23:00, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  - "On the way to her new home Annis meets Lucilla Carleton and Ninian Elmore. Lucilla is running away to Bath to avoid her marriage to Ninian, a match that her guardian is very much in favor of, and Ninian is escorting her to ensure her safe arrival." This reads fine now, but I'm confused with what it says. So Lucilla is running away from marriage, but her proposed husband is taking her? Also, I'm not sure if it's convention, but shouldn't last names be used instead of first? Or is that not applicable when discussing fictional characters? Aiken (talk) 23:08, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    - Obviously it's not confusing at all, as yes, Lucilla is running away and her proposed husband is escorting her. There's no convention about whether to use first or last names, so long as they're used consistently and unambigously. In this particular case of a romantic novel I think it would jar a little to call the heroine "Wychwood" rather than "Annis". Malleus Fatuorum 23:20, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      - I'd have thought if she was running away from marriage, the last person she would want to go with her would be her proposed husband. I'm going to stay neutral on this, per Espresso Addict's points above. Aiken (talk) 23:23, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
        I think you're starting to lose the plot here Aiken, so to speak. This is a novel, a work of fiction. In this fictional universe Lucilla's proposed husband did escort her to Bath. It's a story. Malleus Fatuorum
        Yes I know, I'm not stupid. I thought it may have been a copying error, but my bad. Aiken (talk) 23:36, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.