Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/No Me Queda Más/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 15:24, 26 August 2016 [1].

No Me Queda Más[edit]

Nominator(s): – jona ✉ 19:02, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a song recorded by American Tejano music singer Selena for her last fully recorded album before she was shot and killed a year later. This song holds very dear to me as it brings back nostalgic memories of my mother while growing up. I've made a major overhaul a few months ago and updated the article and subsequently asked the GOCE to copy-edit it. After that, I re-read the article a few times in the weeks following the c/e to make sure the article is indeed ready to be nominated at FAC. I hope you guys enjoy reading the article as much as I had writing it. Best – jona ✉ 19:02, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Cartoon network freak[edit]

Resolved comments from Cartoon network freak (talk)
Lead
  • and produced by Selena's brother-producer -> ,while production was handled by Selena's brother and producer
  • Done.
  • follows the ranchera storyline of a woman in agony after the end of a relationship. -> portrays the ranchera storyline of a woman in agony following the end of a relationship.
  • Done.
  • Done.
  • nonconsecutive -> non-consecutive
  • Done.
  • her third successive number-one song -> remaining her ...
  • It wasn't her last number one song on the chart, the current further shows the singer's US number-one streak during her peak and if I add "remaining", would imply that this single was her last number one.
  • and became the most successful U.S. Latin single of 1995 -> with it becoming the most...
  • Done.
  • ranked the ninth-best Tejano recording -> who ranked it?
  • Done.
  • The music video -> An accompanying music video
  • Done.
  • have since recorded -> have since recorded cover versions
  • Done.
  • Tito Nieves, and the Mexican pop -> Tito Nieves and Mexican pop
  • Done.
  • and Nieves' version peaked at number seven on the U.S. Tropical Songs chart -> while Nieves' version charted at number seven on the US Tropical Songs chart
  • Done.
Inspiration, writing and production
  • a mariachi -> a mariachi track
  • Done.
  • The group -> Following this, the group
  • Done.
  • interview Selena's -> interview, Selena's
  • Done.
Music, theme and lyrics
  • with ranchera and flamenco influences -> ,incorporating ranchera and flamenco influences into its sound
  • Done.
  • at a moderate -> at moderate
  • The a is needed as it wouldn't make any sense to the reader to say "and moves at moderate 95 beats per minute".
  • "desperate", "sentimental" -> "desperate" and "sentimental"
  • Done.
  • and music critics -> while music critics
  • Done.
Critical reception and performance
  • Rename section into "Critical reception and impact"
  • Done.
  • and Paul Verna -> while Paul Verna
  • Done.
  • fans and are Spanish-language counterparts -> fans, with them being Spanish...
  • If I add that, it would read as if the fans were Spanish-language counterparts rather than the songs in question.
Chart performance
  • Rename section into "Commercial performance"
  • Done.
  • For the aspect, it would be better if you would unlink all the red links
  • Done.
  • Fix for the entire article: U.S -> US
  • Done.
Music video
  • The music video -> An accompanying music video; unlink "music video"
  • Done.
Credits and personnel
  • Credits adapted from Amor Prohibido liner notes. -> Credits adapted from the liner notes of Amor Amor Prohibido
  • Done.
Overall

@AJona1992: With my issues being resolved, I'm now willing support to this FAC. Cartoon network freak (talk) 16:05, 19 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Media review

  • File:No_Me_Queda_Mas.ogg: FUR for this article should be expanded
  • File:Selena_No_Me_Queda_Mas.jpg: FUR does not adequately explained why it is necessary to include this image - what information is it intended to convey? Needs expansion. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:00, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Nikkimaria: I added the album cover FUR template to the cover art that provides a more understanding than the previous method used, while also expanding the sound file with additional information that may had been missing. Thanks again for your comments – jona ✉ 12:01, 22 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, just the second point remaining. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:54, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Nikkimaria: I took another jab at it and tried it in my own words, I hope that my explanation for the purpose of the cover art has fully satisfied your concerns. Thanks – jona ✉ 14:06, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Er...jona, you're editing the fair-use image that I didn't have concerns with. File:Selena_No_Me_Queda_Mas.jpg is the one at issue here. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:54, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that :/ I have removed the image and tagged it orphaned for deletion as it does not convey any necessary information the reader can gather without reading the article; the caption was addressing the singer's dress which did not provide any value to reader. – jona ✉ 18:12, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from EditorE[edit]

OK. The article looks pretty good from a quick scan through, but after looking at a few parts of it a little more, I have a few comments:

  • I'm not so fond of how the Billboard.biz citations are formatted. Billboard.biz is still Billboard magazine, and it is published by Prometheus Global Media. The publisher for these sources are missing in the cites, and should be added. Billboard.biz should also be changed to Billboard.biz.
  • Done
  • The Alt description for the cover is decent, but not perfect. It should include a mention or the background and that the photo Selena is in is covered by a frame and is titled. editorEهեইдအ😎 22:36, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done
  • I'm also gonna have to be picky with the English, since this is, after, a FA nomination. Starting with the lead, you need to put the period in the quote. In this case, its the quote of "nothing but happiness"
  • Done
  • "children's singing competition" Did the source specify which competition? If it did, the name of the competition should be added.
  • Added
  • The infoboxes and charts lists for two of the cover versions of the song are unnecessary. Since there isn't a lot of chart peaks that the cover versions, they should be removed and any bit of commericial performance info should be handled by the prose. The subsections are also unneeded in this case, given that there's not a lot of info on both covers.
  • Done
  • The year-end and all-time chart lists needs to be scoped.
  • Done

editorEهեইдအ😎 22:36, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@EditorE: Thank you for your comments, I have fixed all issues. – jona ✉ 23:21, 23 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@EditorE: Have I satisfied your concerns above? – jona ✉ 14:58, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, but I might still have more, so stay tuned. editorEهեইдအ😎 18:36, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Great, looking forward to it. Best – jona ✉ 22:29, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by DivaKnockouts[edit]

Resolved comments from DivaKnockouts (talk)

Lead

  • "You should mix up how you refer to the song. "No Me Queda Mas" appears so many times in the lead (7 times) it becomes redundant. Especially when it's used in two sentences back to back. Ex: "the song", "it", etc.
  • Done
  • "Be consistent on how you refer to the Billboard charts. For the Tropical Songs chart you have it as "US Tropical Songs" but the Regional Mexican Airplay doesn't have the US in front of it.
  • Done

Inspiration, writing and production

  • The info box says the song is a mariachi song, but this section claims the song was meant to be a mariachi song, so is it a mariachi song or not? The source makes it seem like it isn't.
  • The plan was for it not be a mariachi song, I am only going by what the critics wrote and they called it a mariachi track; despite the company's efforts to have it "sweetin" by Silvetti. – jona ✉ 14:10, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Critical reception and impact

  • Link Bidi Bidi Bom Bom, as it's the first time it's used in prose and delink it the second time it is used. (I took care of this.)
  • Thank you =)

Commerical performance

  • Stay consistent with how you refer to the billboard charts. Is it Hot Latin Tracks or Hot Latin Songs? In the lead, you use Hot Latin Songs. In this section you use Hot Latin Tracks, and later in this section you use Hot Latin Songs.
  • Done

Cover versions

  • You should arrange these in chronological order. You go from Archuleta performing it in 2010 to someone recording it in 2005.
  • Done
  • When did Graciela Beltran record her's? I'm guessing 2003 based on the source's date.
  • Done
  • You need to add that Lopez performed the tribute at the 2015 Billboard Latin Music Awards. Also, include its chart performance.
  • Done
  • Palomo's chart performance is confusing. The lead says the song reached number six on the Regional Mexican Airplay but this section says "it reached number eight." Also, what chart did it peak at number 19 on?
  • Fixed
Best, DivaKnockouts 03:47, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by magiciandude[edit]

Resolved comments from magiciandude (talk)
  • Done
  • Did the song rank on the Latin pop or Regional Mexican airplay year-end charts in 1995?
  • Only RMA in 1995, added – jona ✉ 17:30, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • The year-end chart in 2011 is not an "all time charts". It's just Billboard ranking the songs in the past 25 years to celebrate the Hot Latin Songs anniversary.
  • Adjusted statement. – jona ✉ 17:30, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for that, I added it. – jona ✉ 17:30, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Categories such as "Tejano music songs" and "American Latin music songs" are already listed on "Selena songs". Why is needed here?
  • Removed
  • "Flamenco songs" isn't really appropriate since it's listed as an influence and not as a genre. *Remove the "procession and succession" box as they aren't appropriate for song articles since 2010.
  • Done
It's an otherwise well-written article from my point of view. Just fix those issues and I'll be glad to give my support! Erick (talk) 16:28, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Magiciandude: Thank you Erick for your comments, I have fixed all issues. Best – jona ✉ 17:30, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed you have, support. Great job! Erick (talk) 18:28, 25 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support: Great work with this! It is a very comprehensive and well-written article. This definitely deserves FA status. Aoba47 (talk) 05:25, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Prism[edit]

  • is a song recorded by American recording artist Selena for her fourth studio album, Amor Prohibido (1994). → is a song by American recording artist Selena from her [...]
  • while production was handled by Selena's brother-producer Since production is already mentioned, is producer really needed? Plus, I'm almost sure the term you used doesn't exist.
  • Its lyrics express unrequited love Perhaps express an unrequited love.
  • Avoid "with verb[ing]" constructions such as with the singer wishing her former lover and his new partner "nothing but happiness." Can "nothing but happiness" be paraphrased?
  • I rephrased it to wishing for the best. – jona ✉ 18:43, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • during the publication's quarter-century celebration Is this necessary?
  • Removed from lead. – jona ✉ 18:43, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • An accompany music video (also incorrect by the way, should be accompanying) → A music video
  • It received the Music Video of the Year Add award at the end.
  • I'm confused. Reading Billboard I understood that the original version was remixed for commercial purposes, while here it says that there was never an "original" version.
  • The "original" version was released during the early distribution of Amor Prohibido while the "sweeten" version replaced it a few months later; where the front-cover reads "includes new version" of No Me Queda Más. – jona ✉ 18:43, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

More to come. Prism | (talk) 15:20, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Coord notes[edit]

  • This nom has been open a long time, @EditorE and Prism: do you have any further comments?
  • It's been several years since the nominator's last FA so I'd like to see a spotcheck of sources for accurate use and avoidance of close paraphrasing -- unless one of the reviewers above has done so and is prepared to clearly sign off on it, if not you can list a request at the top of WT:FAC.

Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:27, 30 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

  • Consistent formatting and sufficient details – The formatting is consistent across the board.
  • Reliable sources (books, academic journals, expert websites) – All the sources are reliable. I just have one question about “El Nuevo Diario”. Could you please clarify the site’s background and expertise? It looks reliable and credible, but I just want to double-check (especially at this level).
  • According to their about me page, they consider themselves to be a "commercial company" whose articles are targeted to the culture and activity of the Dominican Republic and their people inside the island and elsewhere worldwide. They have also published books and magazines under their publishing company. – jona ✉ 00:21, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That makes perfect sense to me. According to the above information, it definitely passes as a reliable source. Aoba47 (talk) 00:26, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thorough referencing – Everything is thoroughly cited. The only sections unreferenced are the parts about the synopsis of the music video, which do not require citations.
  • To the best of my knowledge, there is not any close paraphrasing or any improper use of sources or sourced material
  • Spot-checking – While I am not an expert on this song, I found no signs of problem during the spot check. Aoba47 (talk) 21:15, 8 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Aoba47: Thank you for your review, I have answered your question above on El Nuevo Diario. Best – jona ✉ 00:21, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Of course, I am glad that I could help in any way possible. That should be it for my source review. Aoba47 (talk) 00:26, 9 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks Aoba for source review and spotcheck. Could I ask you to list the citations you checked for accuracy and avoidance of close paraphrasing? It's something that many spot-checkers do; I ask because I just checked a couple at random, FN22 and FN23 for the statement ""No Me Queda Más" was praised by music critics, who considered it one of Selena's most successful singles", and both seemed to relate to a performance by Jennifer Lopez without clearly referring to the success of the single. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:35, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Ian Rose: FN#22 explicitly says "Selena's hits "Bidi Bidi Bom Bom," "Como La Flor," "I Could Fall in Love," and "No Me Queda Mas." while FN#23 said it is her "most beloved hits", but I see what you're saying. A google search brings up a biography book on Lopez where the author said the song became "an instant classic", Ilan Stavans (who is sourced in the composition section of the article) named it a "hit", but besides a speculative assumption there are no other mention of the single being one of her most successful (other than the ranks by music critics). – jona ✉ 15:08, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Ian Rose: I will do a thorough check of the sources for accuracy and avoidance of close paraphrasing, and I will post any suggestions/comments/questions by the end of today. Thank you for bringing this to my attention, and I apologize if I made any mistakes. Aoba47 (talk) 15:58, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@AJona1992:@Ian Rose: I apologize for the delay. I have listed my comments below:

  • Reference 65 (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/hillary-clinton-abuela-factor-n485226) is used to support that Clinton's use of Selena's music was well received, but according to the source, this decision was criticized with the emergence of hashtags like "Hispandering" and "Not My Abuela" so I would recommend revising this. I might add something along the lines about a mixed reaction to Clinton's attempt to appeal to Latino voters through Selena's music.
  • I revised that Hispanics gave her a mixed response by using her music. – jona ✉ 23:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you. I have struck out the above comment as you have addressed.

These are the only two issues I could find while checking through the sources. I was unable to access the sources that require subscriptions, but I will go on good faith with those few sources. Aoba47 (talk) 21:46, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • The link works correctly now. I am not sure why I kept getting a different one earlier. I have struck out my comment as you addressed that as well.

@AJona1992:@Ian Rose: Everything looks good, and the two points I brought up were addressed and corrected where necessary. I did not find any evidence of close paraphrasing and the sources are accurately used in the article. Aoba47 (talk) 21:39, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Coord notes (2)[edit]

Hi guys, just glancing at the Critical reception and impact section again, I think polishing is needed before we consider promoting the article:

  • "No Me Queda Más" was praised by music critics, who considered it a hit single for Selena. -- I don't think critics "consider" something a hit, it is or it isn't, and that should be discussed in the Commercial performance section anyway.
  • You use the word "calling" five times in five sentences -- more variation of expression is needed. @Mike Christie: I think you've recently written an essay on "critical reception" sections, would you mind having a look at this one and either CE or offer suggestions for improvement (feel free to look over the whole article, this just caught my eye)...

Tks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:09, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try to take a look this weekend; I think I'll have time today. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:22, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have looked at the section once more and tried polishing it some more, hope it is looking better for the both of you and is up to FA standards. – jona ✉ 15:20, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie[edit]

Ajona1992, take a look at this essay, which is what Ian was referring to; it's just my opinion and not any kind of Wikipedia style guide, but I hope you will find it useful. I've taken an initial look at the reception section in this article and I agree with Ian that it could be improved. Here are some thoughts.

First, you have several sentences at the end about awards and top lists; those could be usefully split off into a small paragraph about the awards, with an introductory sentence such as '"No Me Queda Más" received several awards and accolades.' I think those last few sentences are fine.

Here are the key words from the quotes (other than the long one from Burr): "romantic", "popular", "instant classic", "evocative", "bonafide hit", "one of Amor Prohibido's biggest hits", "key hit", "world music flourishes". Four of these ("romantic", "popular", "evocative", and "world music flourishes") are descriptions of the song, and the others describe its success. How about restructuring the section as follows?

  • Positive comments about the song
  • The song was a hit from Amor Prohibido
  • It received several awards and accolades

Here's a draft; how does this look?

The song was well-received, with reviewers describing it as "evocative", "romantic", and "bittersweet"; Quintanilla's use of "world-music flourishes" on the song was noted approvingly by Michael Clark. Ramiro Burr felt that the lyrics, about "finding the strength to walk away", evoked "the pain of love and the tone of redemption". The song became an "instant classic", according to Roger Burns, writing in Icons of Latino America. Other reviewers agreed that it was one of Amor Prohibido's most successful singles releases, with Lisa Leal of KVTV commenting that the song is a Spanish-language counterpart of the Beatles' 1965 single, "Yesterday", in fan popularity.

"No Me Queda Más" received several awards and accolades. It was the Song of the Year at the 1995 Broadcast Music Awards, while Vela received the Songwriter of the Year award in 1996. Its video was honored Music Video of the Year at the 1995 Billboard Latin Music Awards. "No Me Queda Más" was ranked as the ninth-best Tejano song of all time on Ramiro Burr's top-ten list. It has appeared on several critics' "best Selena songs" lists, including BuzzFeed (at number one), Latino Post (number four), and Latina (number five).

I've cut specific mention of some of the reviewers, because I don't think the reader really needs to see them inline; the footnotes can give the details. I compressed several points ("key hit", "one of the biggest hits" and "bonafide hit") into a single sentence without direct quotes, as I don't think the quotes were adding anything that we can't say with paraphrases.

Are Michael Clark and Ramiro Burr worth naming? They both wrote in the same newspaper, I gather, so perhaps we should just give the name of the paper rather than their name?

How does this look? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:16, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've implemented the draft into the article, Ramiro Burr is a well-known Latin music critic than Michael Clark who happened to just write an article on the singer. I found another comment on the song by a reviewer on the San Antonio Current where one said it was "overwhelming [sad]", but after reading your essay and re-reading the draft, it's best to leave it out of it since we already have a laundry list of critics who basically said the same thing about its lyrics in the composition section. There is also a MAC cosmetics line bearing the songs name but I found it to be too promotional and left it out of the article. – jona ✉ 17:21, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Glad you found the draft useful. Ian, would you like me to review the rest of the article, or was it just this section you wanted another opinion on? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:06, 20 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Tks Mike, I think that'll do, the reception section was the main thing that seemed to need more work, and it looks greatly improved now -- tks also Ajona of course. One last thing though: in the Music section, I believe we should be attributing inline the quotes in the sentence Selena sings the song "in a low, sober voice", in a "desperate" and "sentimental" way. In the rest of the paragraph we give names or at least the generic "music critics" as the sources for descriptive quotes, should do the same here. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:48, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Ian Rose: I attributed the two authors of the quotes you mentioned above in the section. Thanks – jona ✉ 12:50, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Tks Jona. Sorry, my last glance through raised another query in my mind: critics have described "No Me Queda Más"' lyrics as "torchy", "mournful", "piercing" and "heartbreaking" -- I can imagine lyrics (i.e. the words of the song) as well as vocals being described as "torchy", "mournful" or "heartbreaking", but lyrics being described as "piercing" sounds a little odd. Is it really the lyrics that all these critics refer to, or is it in fact the vocals, or a mixture? If a mixture, perhaps the simplest solution is to just drop the word "lyrics" from the sentence, and it will make sense. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:11, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Ian Rose: He called it a "piercing ballad", here is a free text version written by the same editor. – jona ✉ 15:46, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Tks for that link -- "piercing ballad" sounds to me like a description of the song as a whole, not the lyrics alone, so my suggestion (unless anyone has a contrary opinion) would be dropping "' lyrics" from the sentence I quoted and then you have all the bases covered and nothing jars. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 22:52, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Ian Rose: I have removed "lyrics" per your suggestion. Thanks – jona ✉ 23:39, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. - Dank (push to talk) 14:04, 23 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  • Does anyone have a problem with my edit changing (English: "There's Nothing Left for Me") to ("There's Nothing Left for Me")?
  • Support on prose per my standard disclaimer. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 16:53, 23 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your edits and support. – jona ✉ 11:55, 24 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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