Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sally Ride/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 10 August 2022 [1].
Sally Ride[edit]
This article is about Sally Ride, the third woman to fly in space. She is also the first astronaut known to have been LGBT (but not openly at the time of her spaceflight). The article is a popular one: it averages around 1,600 page views per day, and has been classified as a level 5 vital article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:36, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
Kusma[edit]
I'll have some prose comments coming up soon, but I also see one "comprehensiveness" issue: her career as a physicist is not properly discussed in the body (all we have is "In 1989, Ride became a professor of physics at the University of California, San Diego (UCSD), and director of the California Space Institute."). The lead at least mentions "primarily researching nonlinear optics and Thomson scattering" but that is missing in the body. [2] [3] [4] are some of her articles that verify these research themes. It would be nice to know whether she stopped being a professor of physics at some point (it does appear she devoted herself more to outreach and popular science after a few years), whether she had PhD students etc. if this is known. (Depending on what sources can be found, I'd expect something between an extra sentence and an extra paragraph here, but there is currently an imbalance between how much we learn about her as an amateur tennis player versus how much we learn about her as a professional physicist). —Kusma (talk) 10:38, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- Lead is a bit short and doesn't quite summarise the entire article.
- The lead was unchanged during my expansion of the article. I have added a bit more. Let me know if there is anything else that you think should be included.
- "former Women's Tennis Association player" why not simplify to "former professional tennis player"? (For a moment, I was wondering whether "Tennis Association" is a specific type of tennis, like rugby league and rugby union).
- Early life: link Presbyterian Church?
- "Her father served..." is followed by "he had gone" about a later period in his life. Tense seems off.
- The story about Swarthmore and homesickness for California would be easier to understand with a mention of the location of Swarthmore.
- "in those days before Title IX women's tennis was not well-supported at the college level" Even after reading up on what Title IX is, I am not certain that this is relevant here (was men's tennis well supported at Swarthmore?) Either drop Title IX or explain why it is relevant.
- The article explains that it increased funding for women's sports. It should be burned into the brains of American readers. Because they had to spend equal amounts on women's sports as men's, and colleges have to spend prodigious sums on gridiron football, which women do not play, vast amounts of money were released for other sports. The reference also places events in the social context of the time. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:28, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- "Her foray into professional tennis was unsuccessful; her whole body ached" what was the extent of this foray? So far we have been told that she had the aim to become a professional tennis player, but not that she did anything towards this goal. What made her body ache?
- mention who Billie Jean King is for the tennis-unaware
- Selection and training: no complaints here, nicely done.
- STS-7: not a fan of linking "[[STS-7|seventh]] Space Shuttle mission" and "[[STS-1|first]] Space Shuttle mission"; I would prefer to include "Space Shuttle mission" in the link. Alternatively, something like "first Space Shuttle mission (STS-1)" would also work I think.
- Was there an interesting reason why Kraft preferred Fisher?
- Could mention that the photograph was taken by a camera on SPAS-1.
- "the runways at KFC" isn't it just one? STS-7 tells us it was brand new.
- STS-41-G: The Crippen/quick turnaround story could be explained better (Crippen flew on both STS-41-C and STS-41-G but he seems to have been the only one on both of these?) Is the "crew training" discussed here the training for STS-41-G?
- I prefer "KSC" without definite article "the KSC" but both are fine. The article currently has both versions, please choose one consistently.
- "[Ride] immediately and gracefully began moving about" this isn't immediately after liftoff, but immediately after going into orbit?
- "manipulating the robot arm much faster than she had been trained" was the quick manipulation necessary for the shaking or was this just her showing off how awesome she was?
- "Getaway Special" mention that these were small experimental payloads made by outside groups?
- Cancelled mission: mention what time it was planned for, and that the Challenger disaster was in January 1986?
- Rogers commission: mention when the investigation happened?
- After NASA: "the end of the Cold War made this much less of an issue." but the Cold War hadn't yet ended in August 1989...
- As above, it would be nice to know more about her work as a physicist and whether she kept her position at UCSD.
- Mention what the position of NASA Administrator is (the second mention saying that it is the NASA administrator makes it sound like a much better position than some random mid-level administrator at NASA).
- "a member of the Review of United States Human Space Flight Plans Committee, an independent review" the committee is not a review, they just performed one.
- Awards: what is the "Lindbergh Eagle" and who awards it?
- First two paragraphs in this section could be combined.
- American Women quarters: appeared in March, needs to be updated
- In popular culture: lots of very dry sentences with very little meat, a rather boring read not providing much context other than "these cultural references exist". Is the Janelle Monáe song just called "Sally Ride" or is it actually about this Sally Ride? Is "Ride On" about Sally?
- External links: Festivals link is broken for me. Camps is a domain squatter. If you link to the archived version of Sally Ride Science instead of the current one at UCSD, mention that it is the archive and from when. Whole section needs a spring cleaning.
A quite enjoyable article about an important astronaut. I expect I will be able to support once some issues are addressed (but note that I have not done any source checking). —Kusma (talk) 15:16, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
- Good changes, but the nonlinear optics etc. from the lead that I mentioned at the top of the section are still not mentioned in the body. —Kusma (talk) 20:30, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
- Changed as suggested. Regrettably, I don't have much about the cancelled missions. Due to scheduling pressures of all kinds, it seems that the STS-61-I crew were reassigned to the STS-61-M mission, and a new crew assigned to STS-61-I, but the crew were still scheduled to fly in July. The core objectives of each mission were the same, but everything else changed quite a bit. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:56, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
Comments by Wehwalt[edit]
- " The purpose mission deployed two communications satellites and the first Shuttle pallet satellite (SPAS-1). " Is "purpose mission" a thing?
- "Her second space flight was the STS-41-G in 1984, " it's the "the" before the mission designation that's bothering me here.
- "After the war he went to Haverford College on the G.I. Bill, where he earned a master's degree in education at the University of California in Los Angeles,[2]: 4–6 " "where" seems to be referring to "Haverford College", but the degree seems to be from UCLA. By the way, it's "University of California, Los Angeles". And it's double-linked.
- "Although Ride was rated number 1 at Stanford and Tyson was number six, the two played doubles together." Leaving aside the question of whether the "although" is justified, why "1" and "six"?
- "National Air and Space Administration (NASA)" AIR?
- "The crew presented Reagan" Whodat? Not linked or otherwise identified.
- "Once in orbit immediately and gracefully began moving about." Odd sentence.
- "She still performed her astronaut spouse duties for Hawley when he flew in space for the second time on STS-61-C in January 1986, which included the post-mission publicity tour." Can more be said about what these were? I imagine they did not include waiting behind a white picket fence and holding up signs "SO PROUD"?
- I have expanded on it. The inclusion of spouses in publicity tours etc dates back to the days of Project Mercury. I would hope it has been re-thought and no longer occurs. It must have been awful for them, but Ride's non-appearance would have too obvious, and questions would have been asked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
- "She was paid a professor's salary of $64,000 (equivalent to $140,000 in 2021) plus $6,000 (equivalent to $13,000 in 2021) as director of Cal Space, which employed 28 full- and part-time staff and had a budget of $3.3 million. (equivalent to $7 million in 2021).[37]" Do we need three inflation templates? Surely the reader will get the picture as to the current value of 1987 dollars with one.
- "She once again turned down an offer to become the NASA administrator, but served on the board of the National Math and Science Initiative in 2007 " Did Obama offer her the post? A year should be put in here, since you are going back from 2008 to 2007.
- Fortunately, we have an account from Lori Garver. Garver contacted Ride about whether she she would agree to have her name put forward, but Ride made it clear that she did not want the job. So there was no formal request from Obama. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:08, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
- "Ride died on July 23, 2012, at the age of 61, in her home in La Jolla." I would probably say "at her home" etc.
Image review[edit]
- All pictures have appropriate permissions/licenses. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 10:47, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
- The images should have alt text. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 10:47, 25 July 2022 (UTC)
Pass: Source review Comments by Dugan Murphy[edit]
Will add some comments here soon. Dugan Murphy (talk) 21:16, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
For some reason I felt compelled to look at all the citations first.
- Citation 21: Why no page number for a citation in a 240-page book? And why does it say it is in Arabic when the Google Books link shows it in English?
- Added page numbers. Don't know where the Arabic language tag came from. Removed. It is not known how many tampons were actually packed. Ride did not use them; she did not menstruate. On her mission, Judy Resnik entertained the boys by pulling a seemingly endless bandolier of tampons from the kit like a magician pulling a scarf from her hat, so there may well have been 100. It was observed that anyone who needed so many would probably die from blood loss. Apparently, it was many years before someone tried one, only to find that they dio not work in space. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:40, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Citation 38: The D in the author's name should be capitalized if this is the same person, which seems likely to me.
- Citation 39, being a list of publications by Ride to support to support "Her research primarily involved the study of nonlinear optics and Thomson scattering" smells a little but like original research to me. What do you think?
- Seems a reasonable summary of the subjects of the papers to me and the contents of the source page to me. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:40, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Yeah, I think you're right. Dugan Murphy (talk) 21:30, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Seems a reasonable summary of the subjects of the papers to me and the contents of the source page to me. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:40, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
I'll continue looking at the citations and will write more. Dugan Murphy (talk) 22:53, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
- Why not declare this to be a source review? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:40, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- Sure. I just changed the heading. Dugan Murphy (talk) 21:30, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
More source review comments below.
- Press releases: I'd be skeptical of press releases as reliable sources, but they are all from government, academic, and nonprofit organizations, so that seems to be fine. I tried looking for guidance on this at WP:RELIABLE but didn't find anything that seems applicable here.
- The source listings for some of the NASA press releases don't say where they came from. Make citations 12, 19, and 29 look like citation 11, for instance.
- Citations to pages on the Sally Ride Science website are inconsistent. Citations 41 and 42 list Sally Ride Science first as the author and others list the article name first, followed by the website name. Furthermore, the name is sometimes "Sally Ride Science" and sometimes it is "Sally Ride Science @ UC San Diego".
- Citation 46: The note at the end ("Mission: Planet Earth is two books, making the total five") seems to contradict the sentence it supports, which lists a total of 6 books.
- In the citations, National Air and Space Museum is sometimes Wikilinked and sometimes not. I vote that it is Wikilinked everytime. Same for UC San Diego and NASA.
- Citation 67 is a press release but is formatted differently than the other press releases. Why?
- Different editor; used {{cite web}} instead of {{cite press release}}. Reformatted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:18, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
- Future plc is sometimes listed as being based in New York City and sometimes is not. I vote for the city to be included every time.
- Citations 71 & 72: Wikilink Scripps Institution of Oceanography
- Citation 73: when I follow the link, I can't find the name "NASA News" anywhere. Is it more appropriate to list this as simply a page on the NASA website? Or a press release?
- Citation 79: this isn't actually a source review issue, but when I followed this link about the Google Doodle for 2017 International Women's Day, I found a link from there to this page that says they recycled that Doodle from Ride's 64th birthday in 2015. You could add that fact to the same sentence in the article if you like. Seems like a greater honor to get her own Google Doodle on her birthday than to be included in a list two years later.
- Citation 82: looks to me like this should be listed as a press release. Same for citation 83.
- Citation 82 (again): why is "United States Mint" italicized?
- Citation 83: Why not Wikilink the US Mint like in citation 82? And why not write it out the same way? Or am I just being super nitpicky?
- Citation 5: I think it's appropriate to Wikilink Yahoo! Sports as the owner of The Post Game. What do you think?
- Citations 6 & 36: Why not Wikilink The Washington Post?
- Citation 9: Wikilink Sky & Telescope
- Citation 10: Wikilink The Stanford Daily
- Citation 15: Why is the Johnson Space Center listed in this citation to People magazine?
- Citation 16: It's not clear this is from NASA. I think this should be reworded or something added to make that clear.
- Added NASA as publisher
- Citation 20: I think History.com should Wikilink to History (American TV network)
- Citation 31: Fix the typo in "Report of the Presidential Commission ob the Space Shuttle Challenger Accident"
- Citation 38: Wikilink Los Angeles Times
- Citation 39: Wikilink ResearchGate
And that's what I found when I combed through the list of citations. Aside from any issues raised above, this list seems to me to include all reliable sources. Mostly my comments are nitpicky formatting consistency issues, opportunities for Wikilinks, and the like. Dugan Murphy (talk) 21:30, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
- All points addressed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:18, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
- Indeed they are addressed. I'd say this nomination passes my source review. All reliable sources, formatted appropriately, easy to follow the citations to the original texts to corroborate the claims made.
- @Hawkeye7: If you have time, this FAC nomination is stalled and could really use a source review or more general comments. I hope you can help! Dugan Murphy (talk) 12:40, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
Support from Figureskatingfan[edit]
Sorry I'm so late to the party; been meaning to come here for a while. I support this article's promotion to FA. It's very well-written and interesting, and the sources, as stated above, are all exemplary. Congrats to Hawkeye7 for all the hard work and scholarship that went into it. Keep up the good work. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:51, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
Support from Balon Greyjoy[edit]
Nice work! I support this nom. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 15:44, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
Comment: The block quote renders strangely, with a comma after Ride's name and then the citation bracket link. Is there any way to take out the comma using that template? Balon Greyjoy (talk) 15:44, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:36, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.