Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sisters at Heart/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Graham Beards via FACBot (talk) 21:05, 5 September 2015 [1].

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Sisters at Heart

Nominator(s): Neelix (talk) 01:41, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

This article is about a Christmas episode of Bewitched that was written by 22 African-American high school students on the subject of racism. The article has received an independent copy edit from a member of the Guild of Copy Editors and has since been promoted to good status. Neelix (talk) 01:41, 2 August 2015 (UTC)

Comments by Jaguar

• "Asher also expressed pleasure with the program's success, and recommended that other white businesspeople" - I don't think there's a need for white people to be linked here, even if "white" isn't linked in the lead
• "Sargent considered Saunders the main reason for the success of the program. "She was interested in innovative forms of teaching," he said." - I might be wrong, but I feel that this should be paraphrased a little so that the sentence doesn't begin with a direct quote
• "One of the high school students was granted the role of assistant director, and at one point screamed "Quiet on the set!", a memory that Sargent later recalled fondly" - was it the high school student that screamed "quiet on the set" or the real director?
• "CBS erased all episodes of The Merv Griffin Show produced between 1969 and 1972 after Griffin left the network" - I don't understand how they could erase episodes of a show, was it cancelled?
• " As an introduction and conclusion to the episode, brief videos aired of Montgomery alone looking at the camera and speaking about the episode" - was this introduction only shown in the episode's 1971 re-run?
• " a role that he says Samantha also fills in "Samantha at the Keyboard," another Bewitched episode" - can this episode be linked?
• I think that the lead could summarise the article better, in accordance with WP:LEAD. I don't know any other similarly-themed sitcom FAs to compare this with, but either a little more on production could be mentioned. For example, how many students at Jefferson High School were illiterate, or the legacy/impact this episode has had on the civil movement. I know that the movement was mainly between 1954 and 1968, but if you think about it, 1970 isn't that far off!
• The reception section is looking quite short and void of critic's opinions. Comprehensiveness and detail are a major factor of the FA criteria, are there any online reviews or more critics that had a say about this episode?

That's all from me for now. I'll come back and have another read through of this article later, but those are the initial structure/prose issues I could bring up. Nice article overall! JAGUAR  16:13, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the review, Jaguar! I have removed the link to White people, resituated the Sargent quotation, reworded to avoid the confusion about who screamed "Quiet on the set!", linked Wiping and reworded to clarify what happened to the episodes of The Merv Griffin Show, switched the sentence order to avoid the confusion about when the introduction was shown, and added two production-related sentences to the lead. I have not linked "Samantha at the Keyboard" because there is no Wikipedia article for this episode and I haven't been able to find enough sources to justify creating one. At present, "Sisters at Heart" is the only episode of Bewitched that has a Wikipedia article. I know of at least one other episode that is notable enough to justify a Wikipedia article, but there may be only one other; certainly, most Bewitched episodes are not independently notable. Thank you for recommending that I look for more online reviews of "Sisters at Heart"! I managed to find two more and have added them to the "Reception" section. I have also created an "External links" section. I was able to find other reviews of the episode online, but none that exhibited editorial oversight. Please let me know if you have any remaining concerns. Neelix (talk) 17:22, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply and I must apologise for the long delay; there has recently been a flood here and it has caused my internet to return to pre-1999 "dial-up" speed! I didn't know that this was the only Bewitched article on Wikipedia, usually TV programmes are well covered! I don't think I can do a full source review as I don't have access to any of the offline sources, so I'm about to go through the four online sources to see if anything needs paraphrasing. JAGUAR  12:23, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I could only access two references because an online subscription is required for the others, but nevertheless I found no issues with content or paraphrasing. After looking through the article again, I don't think I have any other concerns to make, therefore I'll support this article on the basis of it being well written, comprehensive (especially for a 1970 episode) and well referenced. I'm sure somebody else might have access to the offline references, but I'm happy with how the article how it is. JAGUAR  12:29, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Support from Cliftonian

It seems I share a surname with the director of this episode—not something that happens to me a lot. I don't think we're related, but you never know. I'll have a look through and jot note any thoughts I have as I go through.

Resolved comments from —  Cliftonian (talk)

Lead / infobox In the picture, which of these young ladies is Lisa and which is Tabitha? Also, shouldn't the caption be in the present tense? "after Tabitha casts a spell"? "erroneously believes" perhaps "incorrectly believes" do we really need to wikilink simple words like "racist", "bigotry", "advertising agency"? "so he sees everyone, including himself, as African-American." as in he imagines himself and everybody else looking and acting like African-Americans? or simply that he sees himself and everyone else with black skin? I'd advise the latter—the pertinent thing is that he imagines everybody black, not that he imagines them African-American specifically (i.e. they could equally be of any nationality). Plot Why is African-American not wikilinked here while white American is? I don't think you need to link either of them. Also, why "white American"? Why not just white? "including Darrin Stephens (Dick Sargent), his wife Samantha (Elizabeth Montgomery), their daughter Tabitha (Erin Murphy), and their son Adam (David Lawrence)" perhaps "including the Stephens family—Darrin (Dick Sargent), his wife Samantha (Elizabeth Montgomery), their daughter Tabitha (Erin Murphy), and their son Adam (David Lawrence)" again, wikilink on advertising agency. "Mr. Brockway decides to visit" → "visits" "When Mr. Brockway arrives at the house" → "When he arrives" "Through witchcraft, Samantha causes Mr. Brockway to see everyone in the room, including himself, as African-American" see point above; I think the pertinent thing is that he sees them with black skin, not as African-American specifically. Somebody like Mr Brockway (before his redemption at the end of the episode) hates black people no matter what their nationality. Again, not sure we need to wikilink racism. Anybody who doesn't know what that means can understand from what we have just described happening. "acknowledges his racism" presumably he stops being a racist, though, rather than just acknowledging that he has been one? Not sure we need to wikilink Christmas dinner. (delicious though it is) Production Not sure we need to wikilink chartered bus. Also "paid for all 22 students" could just be "paid for the students" We use the word "students" a lot here. Perhaps mix it up a little. "paid for the students" could be "paid for the guests", for example. "The students were impressed by the visit" could become "The visitors were impressed". "that Christmas," Christmas 1969, presumably? not sure we need to wikilink gift wrapping. "Asher called Barbara Avedon and told her about the students' script" could be "Asher told Barbara Avedon about the students' script" "and he asked her if she would help the students with the rewrite" → "and asked if she could help with the rewrite" "who had previously written" don't need "previously" "who had been" don't need "who had" "even though Asher contacted her while she was on a break from all television writing" too much detail? perhaps this might actually have been a factor for her accepting, as it meant she had no other work competing with this for her time. "the series deals with miscegenation by way of the marriage of a witch and a mortal" very apt. perhaps "between a witch and a mortal" to cut down repetition ("of ... of") What's Screen Gems? "a total of fifty students" all from Jefferson High, right? Or other schools too? Wasn't anybody offended by the white cast members blacking up? A lot of people today would get very upset at something like this. Again my point about the racist Mr Brockway "see[ing] everyone as African-American". "We're having integrated turkey: white meat and dark" Oh dear. (no action) "Montgomery and Baer both appeared" perhaps "appeared together"? "Montgomery appeared on The Merv Griffin Show in order to promote "Sisters at Heart,"" we don't need "in order to". Just "to" is enough. Same meaning with fewer words. Who's Oscar Mayer? You mean like the hot dog song from The Simpsons? "as the 213th episode of Bewitched" the 213th episode aired, or the 213th episode produced? or both? "brief videos aired of Montgomery alone looking at the camera and speaking about the episode" perhaps "Montgomery briefly spoke directly to the camera about the episode" Reception Perhaps clarify in the caption that "How Not to Lose Your Head to King Henry VIII" is an episode of Bewitched, and not a play or something. Ah, yes, I see my point about the blackface was picked up in a recent review. "apologizes for his racism" perhaps "apologizes for his prior racism", as it seems he has now discarded this character trait, and he seems to be effectively redeemed when he joins the main cast for Christmas dinner. Why suddenly wikilink black people at the end of the article? I enjoyed this one. Thanks, David; a fine piece of work. I hope the above comments help. Cheers, —  Cliftonian (talk)  03:24, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I'm glad you enjoyed the review, John! I appreciate you undertaking it. I have implemented most of your recommendations with the following exceptions. Thank you for picking up on the problem with the tense of "cast". I have reworded to "has cast" instead of "casts" because I think the present perfect is most appropriate here. I removed all the links you recommended that I remove except African American and white American, which I think too central to the episode to leave unlinked. I retained the phrase "white American" in order to mirror the phrasing of "African American". I retained the phrase "When Mr. Brockway arrives" rather than switching to "When he arrives" because the most recently mentioned person to whom "he" could refer is Darrin. I retained the phrase "help the students with the rewrite" rather than switching to "help with the rewrite" because I am concerned that readers will think that Asher was undertaking the rewrite and was asking Avedon to help him. Please let me know if you have any additional concerns or if I haven't sufficiently addressed any of your concerns above. I always appreciate your comments. Neelix (talk) 20:49, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick reply David. I won't quibble about the links on African-American or white American, or the other prose points you mention. I'm now happy to support and cap my comments above. Well done David; very good job on this one. —  Cliftonian (talk)  07:25, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Support from Tim riley

Only three small points. First, is "Governors Award" really given without a possessive apostrophe? Secondly, in the alt text for the picture in the Reception section I'd replace "poofy hats" with "medieval costume"; I don't know what "poofy" means where you are, but here it is a derogatory slang term meaning "swishily gay". Thirdly, in the bibliography the ISBNs are in unhyphenated 10-digit form rather than the hyphenated 13-digit form requested, on what authority I know not, at Wikipedia:ISBN; I don't feel very strongly about this point, and at any rate you are consistent – the list is not a mish-mash of the two forms – but I just mention it. If you feel like following it up there is a handy tool here. The text appears balanced and comprehensive, and is in very good prose. The article seems to me to meet the FA criteria. – Tim riley talk 08:04, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your review and support, Tim! I have checked the Primetime Emmy Awards official website and the apostrophe is indeed absent, although I don't know why. In my experience, "poofy" has meant "filled with air"; I was unaware of the alternate derogatory definition and have reworded the text accordingly. I have also switched the 10-digit ISBNs to 13-digit ones. Thank you for notifying me of the ISBN converter! That made the job much easier. Neelix (talk) 15:02, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Images are appropriately licensed and captioned. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:10, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Source review from Cliftonian

Formatting:

• Bibliography and citation notes are all consistently laid out so far as I can see.
• Ref 26: Isn't Allmovie a work, rather than a publisher?

Spotchecks:

• Reference 5 [Pilato (2012), p. 212.]: the book mentions "twenty-four African-American children", not 22. I appreciate that reference 4 specifically says there were 22 of them. Perhaps remove references to the number where only reference is used, or add reference 4 as well, or perhaps add a footnote mentioning that the book says 24 while the article says 22. Otherwise reference 5 checks out.
• Reference 11 [Crump (2001), p. 38.]: checks out.
• Reference 13 [Erickson (1971), p. 37.]: checks out.
• Reference 14 [Metz (2007), p. 65.]: checks out.
• Reference 22 [McCann (2009), p. 229.]: checks out.

I'll assume good faith on the rest. Looks generally fine, just a couple of minor points. —  Cliftonian (talk)  08:47, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the source review, John! I have switched Allmovie from a publisher to a work and added a footnote mentioning the numerical discrepancy between the Pilato and Jet sources. Neelix (talk) 16:52, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Graham Beards (talk) 21:05, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.