Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/The Blue Flame (play)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 23:20, 31 July 2017 [1].

The Blue Flame (play)[edit]

Nominator(s): RL0919 (talk) 21:31, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Blue Flame is a 1920 stage play with a distinction that most would not want: it may be the worst play ever performed on Broadway. Audiences laughed at supposedly serious lines; words like "abysmal" and "freakish" appeared in reviews. The article has been GA since February, so presumably it is better than its subject! I await your critical reviews. RL0919 (talk) 21:31, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Aoba47[edit]

  • This is more of a clarification question, but does femme fatale need to be in italics as it has entered into the English language lexicon?
    • After checking a few guides, italics removed.
  • In the lead, I would attribute who described it as "one of the worst plays ever written".
    • Attribution added.
  • In the "Plot" section, I would add some context to identify who Ned Maddox is as he appears rather abruptly in the description.
    • Reworded, but there is a limit to how much context I can add. The full text of the play is not published, so I can only work from summaries in other sources.
      • Makes sense to me; thank you for the clarification. Aoba47 (talk) 19:58, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since you linked "dream" in the lead, should it also be linked in the body of the article for consistency?
  • I would suggest organizing the paragraphs in the "Critical reception" subsection around topics with clear topic sentences, as suggested by this resource, as it is a little all-over-the-place. The second paragraph appears to be focused on the criticism of the dialogue and the fourth paragraph is about the retrospective reviews, but the first and third paragraph appear a little shapeless, and would benefit from some revision and focus.
    • Reworked to a first paragraph about negative reviews that were somewhat kinder to Bara, a second to those who condemned her equally with the rest of the play, and the third to retrospectives. Hopefully that makes sense, but I'm open to other ideas for how to organize the section.
      • Thank you. I think that it helped that particular section a lot to give more structure. Aoba47 (talk) 19:58, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Great work with this article. It is a very interesting read. Once my comments are addressed, I will support this. Aoba47 (talk) 17:25, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoba47: Thanks for reviewing. Replies above about each of your suggestions, and let me know if you spot anything else that needs addressing. --RL0919 (talk) 19:55, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wonderful work with this article; it was an interesting read. I support this for promotion. Good luck with this, and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. Aoba47 (talk) 19:58, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Finetooth on prose[edit]

Who could resist this? Just for laughs, I would go see the play if that were possible. The article is interesting, well-organized, and well-illustrated. It appears to be comprehensive. My suggestions below have to do mainly with prose and style, and none should involve much trouble. I made a few minor changes as I went. Please revert any you think are inappropriate.
Lede
  • ¶2 "The play received strongly negative reviews, with critics ridiculing the plot, dialog, and Bara's acting." – Replace "with plus -ing" construction? Suggestion: "Critics panned the play, ridiculing the plot, dialog, and Bara's acting."
  • ¶2 "Bara's movie fame drew large crowds to theaters, making the play a commercial success, with the production breaking attendance records at some of its venues." – Replace the "with plus -ing" in this one too? Suggestion: "Bara's movie fame drew large crowds to theaters, and the play, breaking attendance records at some venues, was a commercial success."
Plot
  • The "blue flame" claim is supported by a reliable source, but what about the rest of the plot? What is the source for this?
Plot summaries usually aren't cited, because in most cases the source is the work itself. But considering that The Blue Flame is unpublished and hasn't been performed in almost a century, that's not the case here, so you are correct that this should be cited. Started adding and should finish in the next few days.
Sounds fine. Finetooth (talk) 15:51, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Background and development
  • ¶1 Note 1 ends with "These figures follow the figures as of 2015." Can this sentence be deleted? The main text already specifies 2015, and the repetition of "figures ... figures" seems a bit strange.
This text comes from a template that is used in many articles, so I am reluctant to remove the information entirely. However, I did update the wording to eliminate the repetition.
  • ¶1 "The first version of The Blue Flame was written by Leta Vance Nicholson, a movie scenario writer." – Flip to active voice? Suggestion: "Leta Vance Nicholson, a movie scenario writer, wrote the first version of The Blue Flame".
  • ¶2 "...a "vamp", playing femme fatale roles, with her characters seducing and ruining innocent men." – Replace "with plus -ing"? Suggestion: "a 'vamp' or femme fatale who seduced and ruined innocent men."
Productions and legacy
  • ¶1 Just as you already did for Boston, you might as well eliminate the state names for the equally well-known Pittsburg and Chicago.
  • ¶2 "settled with a cash payment to Davis..." – Do the sources say how much he got? I wondered.
I don't believe so. Settlement terms in this type of case are often kept confidential.
  • Critical reception
  • ¶1 "Variety said opinions in the daily press were united about how bad the play was, but expected Bara to draw audiences to the theater for at least a few weeks." – It's not quite clear whether this means that the magazine thought Bara would draw audiences or whether it was reporting that the daily press was saying so. Maybe "...but that reviewers expected..."?
  • ¶1 "Overall the play was a tremendous financial success, with the previews breaking attendance records." – Another "with plus -ing". Suggestion: "The play was a tremendous financial success, and its previews broke attendance records." Or something like that.
This is your only copy editing suggestion that I don't think is really an improvement.
My pouncing on "with plus -ing" might go too far now and then, I admit. Finetooth (talk) 15:45, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • ¶1 "In Boston, the show was sold out, even after adding extra matinees." – Since the show didn't add matinees, maybe recast to something like "In Boston, the show sold out even after the addition of extra matinees."
Works cited
  • I don't think you need to repeat the page numbers in this subsection since you've already got them embedded in the references. It's possible that someone will eventually want to add another citation to a different page of any of these works.
Removed a page number mistakenly included for a book. Page ranges for articles are normally provided in bibliographies, and there wouldn't be a way for anyone to cite the work outside those ranges, because it would be a different article.
  • You might want to convert the Golden book ISBN to its 13-digit form. A converter lives here.
Golden's book was published in 1996, before ISBN-13 was developed. My rule is to use the ISBN that appears in the edition actually used, so that someone looking at the physical copy can verify it. That is what I've done on my previous FAs and would prefer to continue unless there is a consensus to do it differently.
OK, and thank you. That is a good reason. Finetooth (talk) 15:21, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for taking the time to review. I've made changes along the lines of most of your suggestions, and commented above only where there is something different/additional to say. I'm still working on one item and will update again when finished. --RL0919 (talk) 03:54, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Switching to support on prose, as noted above. I leave it to you to add the source or sources for the rest of the plot summary. This is an entertaining article, nicely done Finetooth (talk) 15:57, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Parcly Taxel (with image and source review)[edit]

Images are appropriately licenced, alt-texted and used. Sources are also all reliable, drawing from both contemporary and modern reviews of the play, and are appropriately used in the article. I gave my own look at the prose too and it's OK (after the edits above). I completely support the article becoming featured. Parcly Taxel 02:54, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from JM[edit]

Note to delegates: I was the GA reviewer for this article.

  • "Theda Bara in The Blue Flame" Strictly speaking, that's a publicity photo; she's not really performing there. How about "Theda Bara as Ruth Gordon"?
  • Can I recommend putting the pictures of Dinehart and Jennings together using Template:Multiple images?

And that's about it. An engaging read, though it is quite short. Josh Milburn (talk) 00:48, 22 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reviewing (again). Good point about the infobox image; caption changed. Regarding the suggestion of using {{Multiple images}} for the cast photos, I played around with it a bit and don't think it improves the display in this case. I think it was a good idea in The Demi-Virgin (where you previously suggested it and I used your suggestion), but that article had four cast images and this only has the two. --RL0919 (talk) 00:38, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support. I think this is an excellent article; although it's short, my checks at GAC suggest (though certainly not conclusively) that it is comprehensive. I am watching this page to make sure no further issues arise. Josh Milburn (talk) 22:33, 30 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment: J Milburn were you planning to return to this at all? And although I see a source review above, I don't see anything about source formatting consistency. Sarastro1 (talk) 21:49, 30 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support added above; thanks for the reminder. Josh Milburn (talk) 22:34, 30 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I scanned reference formatting and only one anomaly (probably a typo) stood out. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:20, 31 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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