Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Wii Sports

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 00:05, 20 February 2008.

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Wii Sports

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This article recently passed GA, and has been tweaked and expanded a bit since. I feel that it meets the FA criteria and would appreciate any comments or suggestions that could improve the article. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 05:17, 8 February 2008 (UTC))

Since this article uses only one non-free image in the text some more could be included under fair-use; maybe a screenshot of each of the games? indopug (talk) 05:57, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the article is a bit sparse on images, but I think a screen shot of each game would be a bit much and clutter the gameplay section. I'll see what I can find. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:10, 8 February 2008 (UTC))

There's already pictures of each sport in the cover art. --Mika1h (talk) 19:59, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I've added a picture of Iwata at Nintendo's E3 press conference in the "Development" section. Hopefully that spruces up the article some. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 05:06, 10 February 2008 (UTC))

Comments:

• "Though it is bundled with the Wii system, it has also been commercially successful." Statement is confusing to me. It seems to suggest that the bundle should inhibit sales of the game, while the opposite may be true. I'm not sure whether you're referring to sales of the game itself or the bundle in regards to commercial success. Clarity may be needed
• "It has also become a popular device for social gatherings and competitions among players of varying ages." I'd prefer it if there was a source here. I don't think the lead needs to be referenced, but best to be consistent as the rest is.
• Try cut out some redundant alsos.
• Caption: "Guest B preparing to throw a ball in Bowling". Maybe a pedantic one, but is there any need to refer to the Mii as GuestB? It would be like referring to a character in a caption as player 2 in a multiplayer game.
• I think there's some inconsistency with the usage of capitalisation in Gameplay: some times the sports are capitalised while other times they're not.
• The Reception section could do with some content from Japanese reviewers; this is hard to come by, but at least try to list Famitsu in the table.
• Refs are inconsistent—some give the name in order, while other are *surname*,*forename*.
• I'd cut both of the links to wikis as neither offer anything beyond what this article does.
• Additional info for Development would be helpful—the largest paragraph just details this game's showing at E3
• Just a suggestion this one, but maybe you can mention that many of the Wii Sports-related injuries were reported in newspapers multiple times in a set period.

I've done some minor copyediting—mainly grammar and punctuation. It's hard to find fault with this article. Anyway, I hope that this helps. Ashnard _Talk ^Contribs 19:22, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the copy editing, and for the helpful comments. I've done some copy editing in addition to some done by some other editors. I hope it solves everything.

• In regard to your first one, Wii Sports was included free with the Wii in all territories except for Japan. I was trying to convey that even though it was a free game, it has seen commercial success. I've reworded the phrase to hopefully better convey this.
• Statement in the lead has been cited.
• That was a lot of extra alsos. I've removed a good chunk of them. Thanks for pointing that out.
• Caption has been changed.
• Capitalization has been addressed, please let me know if I missed any.
• I couldn't find much in the way of reviews, I was hoping the Japanese sales info would apply to that. I found the famitsu score, but am looking for a suitable source.
• I don't know when the names got switched up, but they should all be Surname, Forename now. Let me know otherwise.
• I removed the gaming wiki link, but kept the strategy wiki link. Mainly because the strategy offers info on how to play. The article use to read like this and I suspect there are still people that will come to the article looking such info. If it's a real problem, I'll remove it. But I believe it is within WP:EL, though only barely.
• The last development paragraph has been tweaked.
• The injuries issue was worded the way it was because of the source material. If I had several newspaper articles about the issue, I probably would have done it that way. So I figured the current wording with ABC News and 1UP.com sources were sufficient. If I come across some more, I'll edit accordingly.

I hope that addresses most of your concerns. I'll post back later about the famitsu score. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 22:56, 8 February 2008 (UTC))

I couldn't find a reliable source for the famitsu score. But I did find an award from them. I hope that along with the Japan Media Arts Festival award and the Japanese sales info will adequately cover the Japanese reception. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 06:31, 9 February 2008 (UTC))

Support: All my concerns seem to have been addressed. I guess we can live with Startegy Wiki. Well done. Ashnard _Talk ^Contribs 13:35, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

• Comment - Some games do not calculate points during multiplayer games. This sentence is a bit vague. May you elaborate on it. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 17:02, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
  • That section has been copy edited some. I hope it is less vague. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 05:06, 10 February 2008 (UTC))
• Comment The writing seems good, but there not enough images, and there seems to be too many references in the lede, which is supposed to be a overview of what the article already says. Juliancolton Talk 22:12, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I'm glad you approve of the writing, it's not my strong point. As far as images, I agree that an extra picture would help, but I haven't found any extra suitable image to add. Since the FA criteria doesn't stipulate an exact number of images for an article, I figured 4 would be enough. I sourced the content in the lead simply because I try to source as much as possible. I think the more something is sourced with reliable sources, the better the overall quality of the article. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 23:52, 10 February 2008 (UTC))

Comment

Addressed comments by Buc

• "that monitor player progress" not sure I quite understand this, player progress in what?
• "Wii Sports has been well received by critics" what, every single one?
• "controlled by the game" "controlled by the computer" which is it?
• "Wii Sports was produced by Katsuya Eguchi, who managed Software Development Group 2 at Nintendo Entertainment Analysis and Development." try "Katsuya Eguchi, who managed Software Development Group 2 at Nintendo Entertainment Analysis and Development, produced Wii Sports."
• "Wii Sports received positive reviews overall. Reviews complained about the game's graphics, but praised the ease of use." needs ref.
• "baseball, golf and boxing were lacking" is that all they said? just that they were "lacking".
• I think "Continuity" is a better section title for "Impact and legacy".
• "Wii Sports has been well-received by reviewers" first of all this needs a ref, but then you talk about it's sale numbers and deal with it's reviews in the next section so why is it here?
• There doesn't seem to be much detail in the Gameplay about what you do in each individual sport, only a brief mention of the training mode and no mention at all of the fitness mode.
• "and was released in other territories the following month." by "other territories" do you mean worldwide? If so say that, otherwise specify exactly where.
• "IGN commented on an exploit in the bowling game that removed the challenge and replay value. After the release, they stated that the exploit was not fixed." What was this exploit?

• "1,911,520 units sold...Wii Sports sold 17.85 million copies worldwide" I thought it came free with the Wii?
• "The sports included are" try "The game includes in the sports"
• "Wii's message board" "Wii Message Board" again which is it?
• "Wii Sports has been well-received by reviewers" this needs a ref

There might be more issues but that's it for now. Buc (talk) 19:56, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I've tried to address the issues and questions you've brought up. Hopefully the changes will gain your support.

• For the "territories" statement, I worded it that way because the game has only officially been released in North America, Japan, Europe and Australia. That and the release dates for each territory were different, but all in December. I figured with the release dates in the infobox, a general statement would suffice in the lead. Let me know if there is anything I can do to improve this.
  • Say the specific territories.
• I've tweaked the "player progress" and "well received by critics" statements.
• Wii Sports was included free with the Wii in all territories but Japan. They actually had to purchase it separately there. Also, the sold worldwide statement includes the copies that were bundled with the Wii. Nintendo counts those as sold copies and has so for other bundled versions like Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario World.
  • Seems like a flawed stat then. Trying to make it sound more popular than it really is. This definitely needs explaining.
• I've tweaked the "sports include" statement and that whole paragraph in the lead to hopefully improve the flow.
  • Wording still doesn't do it for me.
• I tried to exclude specifics about gameplay to avoid it from reading too much like a gameguide and avoid WP:GAMEGUIDE. I think you'll find most, if not all, VG Featured articles try to generalize the gameplay section as much as possible to make them readable for a general audience.
  • It doesn't need much. Just a brief description of what each game features.
• I've tweaked the statements about "controlled by computer" and "Message Board" to make them consistent.
  • I still see "Wii" and "Wii's". I've also noticed "Wii's Mii Channel".
• I've tweaked the "well received by reviewers" statement. I originally added it to give a general statement that would give the reader the main idea of the section. But I've separated it here to help the flow.
• I've adjust the "Katsuya Eguchi" statement as you suggested.
• I've also added a citation to the "positive reviews overall" statement using the Game Rankings and Metacritics sources. In regard to the "Reviews complained about the game's graphics, but praised the ease of use" statement, I did not find a source that explicitly stated this. It is another generalized statement I included to help give the main idea to the reader. However, the proceeding statements from reviews do back up this statement as specific examples were given.
• I've tweaked the "baseball, golf and boxing were lacking" statement to better cover the idea.
• I didn't go into detail on the exploit for the same reason as the specific gameplay details, to avoid WP:GAMEGUIDE.
  • Again, doesn't need much, just a mention of what the exploit was. Buc (talk) 12:37, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
• I renamed the "Impact and legacy" section to simply "Impact" because there is very little about its legacy. I hope that works well enough.

I hope this addresses any concerns you had with the article. If there are still some issues you have, please let me know. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 19:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC))

Hopefully this address the rest of the issues.

• The specific territories have been included.
• I agree the stat is not perfect, but that is how Nintendo has reported it. It was included in the article to give a worldwide perspective of the sales. As far as explaining it, each time it is mention it is also mentioned that the number includes bundled copies.
• Regarding the statement, "The five sports included are..." Looking at it, I feel it adequately conveys the information. Can you suggest another wording?
• I've added more content regarding the gameplay and exploit.

I hope that about covers it. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 16:27, 17 February 2008 (UTC))

The "Wii/Wii's" issue should be fixed now. Nintendo refers to the message board as the "Wii Message Board" and the Mii creator simply as the "Mii Channel". I added the "Wii's" part in front to distinguish that it was part of the Wii system. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 18:14, 19 February 2008 (UTC))

Addressed comments from Elcobbola

• Comment Criterion 3 concerns regarding WiiSportsBowling.jpg:
  • Image does not appear to be low resolution, despite FU assertion to the contrary.
  • WP:NFCC#3A states “As few non-free content uses as possible are included in each article and in Wikipedia as a whole. Multiple items are not used if one will suffice; one is used only if necessary.” Given that Wii Sports Europe.jpg is essentially a compilation of in-game scenes, use the bowling image does not appear to be supported. Does the bowling image really contribute significantly to our understanding above the contribution of the cover image (an NFCC#8 requirement)? ЭLСОВВОLД _talk 18:50, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
    • That's a good point, I'm fine with removing it. There are a few other pictures I've found that show a player using the Wii Remote along with a corresponding screenshot of the game. Would that be better? (Guyinblack25 ^talk 20:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC))
      • It's certainly possible. Do you have links? ЭLСОВВОLД _talk 20:59, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
        • IGN's image gallery. There are three such images, I was thinking either the baseball or golf one. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 21:19, 18 February 2008 (UTC))
          • Well, I don’t necessarily disagree with the general idea; an additional screenshot could contribute significantly to our outstanding if, and only if, it is used in direct conjunction with an image of a player manipulating the Wii remote (i.e. to depict cause and effect, so to speak). The wrinkle is the players depicted in those IGN images, as the policy allows use only “if there is no reasonable expectation that a free image does or ever could exist”. Free images of people swinging remotes, obviously, are a dime a dozen. Could NFCC#3B (minimal extent of use) require we replace the players with a free equivalent? I suppose I don’t know the answer; perhaps it would be best not to include a replacement image for the time being and bring the question to a FU talk page; I’m curious as to what consensus would be myself. ЭLСОВВОLД _talk 21:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
            • Do you recommend removing the image all together until a suitable free image can be found?
              Sandy, will the lack of that gameplay image be a problem in satisfying FA criteria? (Guyinblack25 ^talk 23:23, 18 February 2008 (UTC))
              • Image policy is a *real* weakness for me, and I have to rely on the consensus you all come up with; I suggest pinging Deckiller (talk · contribs) and Pagrashtak (talk · contribs) for another opinion. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:32, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
                • I recommend removing that image as I don't feel it meets the non-free criteria. For an article on the game itself, it would be acceptable. For the Wii, I don't think so. It certainly needs to be low-res. Woody (talk) 17:07, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

• (un-indent) Image has been removed. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 18:14, 19 February 2008 (UTC))

• Support. Well-written and thoroughly sourced. I have one question, though: Shouldn't "well received" in the lead be hyphenated? Or am I missing something? The Prince (talk) 00:38, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I've seen both in text before. So to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure. I'll defer to a more experienced copy editor than I on this one.
• Support - looks good. Nice work on the article. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 04:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

• Comments I gave it a quick copyedit, fixing some stray grammar and punctuation problems. A few other issues:

Prose

• "Wii Sports has been overall well received by critics" -> "Overall, Wii Sports has been well received by critics"
• "Nintendo also wanted players to want to use the system daily" - repetitive verbs
• "Sports were chosen as the theme because of the familiarity people have with them." - weak prose
• "Bowling and boxing were revealed for the first time, as well as their inclusion in the sports package." - poor grammar
• "Wii series" is italicized in the infobox, but plain text when used in the article.

Context

• What on earth is Nunchuk?
• Miis are not explained well; explicitly state what a Mii is, and give some context for Mii Parade and Mii Plaza.
• Explain what E3 is.
• Wii Motor Sports is mentioned without any context.

One last thing: it struck me as a bit weak to have the article end with the unofficial tournament stuff. Could that paragraph perhaps be moved up elsewhere within the section? Maralia (talk) 06:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

• Thank you for the copy edit. Some of your comments have been addressed, and I am currently working on the others. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 20:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC))

• I think your comments have all been addressed. I tried changing the content to better express the info lacking context. Let me know if this is sufficient. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 23:23, 18 February 2008 (UTC))

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.