Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/William Utermohlen/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Hog Farm via FACBot (talk) 15 November 2021 [1].

William Utermohlen[edit]

Nominator(s): Realmaxxver (talk) 19:41, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about the artist who drew the self portraits with Alzheimer's disease. In the past two months I have expanded this article from this stub to a Good article and now here, where I hope to make this article my first featured article. Realmaxxver (talk) 19:41, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Buidhe[edit]

Image review—pass
  • If the source country is the UK, the lead image cannot be free in the US. Because of URAA, it would only be free was public domain in the source country in 1996. Simple enough to swap in a non-free rationale.
Added fair use rationale. Realmaxxver (talk) 20:59, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:William Utermohlen - The Birth of Venus.jpg Paintings are not necessarily published. Even if publicly exhibited, that does not count as publication under US law. There is not a good fair use rationale for this painting as it is not mentioned in the article.
  • The non-free portrait seems to have a good fair use rationale. (t · c) buidhe 20:30, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Removed image and nominated for deletion. Realmaxxver (talk) 20:59, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Other comments
  • The end of the article has several very short sections, which isn't ideal for readability. One option could be to merge "Critical reception" with the "Alzheimer's disease and death" since all the reception seems to be about these works in particular. Alternately, you could rework the critical reception and "in popular culture" into a "legacy" section. (t · c) buidhe 20:36, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Did Suggestion two. Realmaxxver (talk) 20:59, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I also went and turned "Critical reception" and "In popular culture" into subsections. Realmaxxver (talk) 19:37, 25 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from zmbro[edit]

  • Make sure all sources are archived. See quite a few that aren't
  • The Oscar ref isn't indented when every other one is
  • Still isn't on my screen. – zmbro (talk) 18:56, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wasn't sure what you exactly meant, but I changed the title parameter from "The 92nd Academy Awards: 2020" to "The 92nd Academy Awards - 2020". (diff) feel free to specify. Realmaxxver (talk) 22:00, 20 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I understand what you mean now. done. Realmaxxver (talk) 09:35, 24 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wall Street Journal should be the website/work not the author/in the url title; same for Huffington Post and a few others
  • I went and reverted this, it caused some issues with the {{sfn}} template. Realmaxxver (talk) 17:32, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Guardian should be capitalized
  • Is Animation Magazine reliable?
  • Are all urls by Utermohlen, Patricia from www.williamutermohlen.org? If yes that should appear as the website for every use

That's what I got so far. – zmbro (talk) 12:55, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • All isbn books need locations of publication; (UK) isn't good enough
  • Going along with Tom Kitwood On Dementia: A Reader And Critical Commentary, are their names Clive Baldwin and Andrea Capstick? Because Baldwin Clive and Capstick Andrea doesn't seem right.
  • Boicos, Chris is missing a website/work
  • Ditto "Portraits of the Mind"
  • Not fully sure what you mean, but i changed it to "The Works of William Utermohlen — 1955 to 2000" Realmaxxver (talk) 20:11, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Based on source formatting this isn't ready for FA yet. But that can obviously change. – zmbro (talk) 18:56, 19 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Zmbro, I have adressed all your comments, so I want to ask; do you Support or Oppose (put Support/Oppose in bold in your answer)? Realmaxxver (talk) 14:00, 29 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wuold like to see what others say first. Also, I'm prefectly aware of how this process works. – zmbro (talk) 19:11, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Therapyisgood[edit]

  • 1957-1990 should have an ndash for a year range, so 1957–1990.
  • "Wall Street Journal" in the authors section should be "The Wall Street Journal". It should also be italicized.
  • Because of this, I have also changed the value in the {{Sfn}} templates which used that source. Realmaxxver (talk) 23:10, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why link "The Times" in the references but nothing else (ie why not link The Wall Street Journal, Huff Post,. etc?)
  • I would like to say that The Times was not the only author/work which I linked, but: Done. Realmaxxver (talk) 23:02, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Born and raised in South Philadelphia, Utermohlen earned a scholarship at the Philadelphia Academy of Fine Arts in 1951. after caps
  • A lot (but not all) of the works in the "References" section need italics. Just to name a few: Deadline, New Statesman, The Huffington Post
  • Huffington Post should be The Huffington Post, and it should be italicized. Note: For the references section, you should say Huffington Post, The and not The Huffington Post so the ordering can stay the same of the references
  • shortly after completing his military service caps
  • which he had gained from his service in the Vietnam War. earlier you say he just served his military service in the Caribbean?
  • That claim came from this version, made before I edited this article. I have replaced it with "Caribbean" for now, but I might have to check if any sources say that he served in the Vietnam War (I did find these sources and also this source, page 8, which say that the War series references Vietnam, but it never says that it was influenced from personal experiences). Realmaxxver (talk) 20:30, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • In 1957 he graduated from the art school which art school?
  • I figured it was a bit redundant to repeat the name of the art school (Pennsylvania Academy of Fine Arts), but done. Realmaxxver (talk) 20:30, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Italicize New Statesman in the notes
  • Done, also italicized NBC because of consistency. Realmaxxver (talk) 21:13, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • the Mummers Cycle what was this? Can you explain?
  • Already described in the next paragraph: "The Mummers Cycle is based on the Mummers Parade of Philadelphia,[20] but in a letter from November 1970, Utermohlen stated that the Mummers Cycle was also created as a "vehicle for expressing my anxiety".[21]" Realmaxxver (talk) 21:13, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • And by 1975 don't start sentences with "and"
  • Utermohlen also used this technique to make two portraits of his wife no need for "also"
  • The Nudes series date back as early as 1953. then why have you listed the "Nudes" year as 1973–1974?
  • I should note that while the artworks were made as early as 1953, It was most active from 1973-1974. I have made an {{efn}} note to clarify. Realmaxxver (talk) 21:13, 27 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • a 2001 paper from The Lancet, period, not comma
  • Comments under a 2012 article by the Huffington Post described that Utermohlen's self portraits "takes us into the mind of an Alzheimer's victim". we don't comment on Internet comments, please remove
  • Articles with a live URL should use the |url-status=live parameter, such as the NBC reference.
  • Overall, a lot of stubby paragraphs. Do you think you could combine some? Therapyisgood (talk) 14:29, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I combined paragraphs in the Career and Early life section, shown here, here and here.
  • @Therapyisgood: because of the Co-ordinator note below, I would like to know if you either Support or Oppose. Realmaxxver (talk) 17:18, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Spicy[edit]

I remember seeing this article when it was still a draft. It has developed well since then. I've made a few copyedits. From a FAC perspective, I have some concerns about the sourcing. Comments below:

  • I don't think an internal link to a subsection of the same article is standard practice ([[William_Utermohlen#Exhibitions|displayed in several exhibitions]]).
  • "The Dante cycle was inspired by Dante's Inferno, but art style wise, the Dante cycle was inspired from 1960s movements like pop art" - this is generally a clumsy sentence. Something like "in terms of art style" would be more formal. "Inspired by... inspired from" is repetitive and I don't think the latter is grammatical.
  • changed to "but in the terms of the series's art style, the Dante cycle was inspired from 1960s movements like pop art.[19]" Realmaxxver (talk) 22:18, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's only one image of his art, currently. Since the article focuses on his decline into Alzheimer's disease as expressed through his art, I think it would be greatly improved by showing an example of his art prior to being diagnosed with Alzheimer's, or in the early stages of the disease. This should be easily justifiable under WP:NFCC.
  • I think I could put next to the self-portrait (using the {{Multiple image}} template) one the lithographs from the Wilfred Owen series (shown here). Realmaxxver (talk) 00:39, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Added alt text. Realmaxxver (talk) 00:27, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • What English variant is being used here? e.g. we have "travelled", but also "color".
  • I think given that Utermohlen spent most of his life in England, I think it is best to use British English; I have replaced "color" with "colour". Realmaxxver (talk) 20:00, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Swinnen described some aspects that may have contributed to the success and medical research of Utermohlen's portraits." - who is Swinnen?
  • Aagje Swinnen; made that clearer in the text. Realmaxxver (talk) 20:00, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The connection to Everywhere at the End of Time seems tenuous. I wouldn't include that in the 'see also' section, personally. (I wonder if creating a more general article on "dementia and art" would be worthwhile).
  • Removed see also section for now, I think the EATEOT link could be useful in a subarticle about the self-portraits themselves.

Realmaxxver (talk) 20:17, 4 November 2021 (UTC) What makes the following high-quality reliable sources (per WP:FACR):[reply]

Thanks, Spicy (talk) 02:09, 30 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Spicy: Removed all sources. Realmaxxver (talk) 00:27, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Spicy: because of the co-ordinator note below, I want you to state if you Support or Oppose the article. Thanks. Realmaxxver (talk) 00:39, 11 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment[edit]

This has been open for nearly a month, and while attracting interest it has yet to receive a single general support. Unless definite signs of a consensus to promote develop in the next two or three days I am afraid that this nomination is liable to be archived. Pinging previous reviewers' attention to this - @Buidhe, Zmbro, Spicy, and Therapyisgood: Gog the Mild (talk) 12:29, 9 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Still no supports, a week later, and now an outstanding oppose. Gonna have to archive this one. Hog Farm Talk 14:09, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Graham Beards[edit]

Sorry for being late to this FAC. It's a fascinating article. The prose needs more work in a few places:

  • "his artworks have been condensed into six cycles, which concern such as early memories and war." This sounds odd to my ears. (Perhaps remove "such as")?
  • I think that is supposed to be "topics such as". Changed. Realmaxxver (talk) 20:52, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 1992, Utermohlen had earned British nationality." I think "gained" is a better word.
  • There is redundancy here "The Dante cycle was inspired by Dante's Inferno, but in the terms of the series's art style, the Dante cycle was inspired from 1960s movements like pop art."
  • Reworded to "the Dante cycle was also influenced" Realmaxxver (talk) 20:52, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is redundancy here "Utermohlen's symptoms at the time included having issues trying to tie a necktie". How about just "tying"?
  • Redundancy here "The series were multiple lithographs "
  • Changed to "From 1993 to 1994, Utermohlen created a series of multiple lithographs which depicted short stories written by the World War I poet Wilfred Owen.[22]" Realmaxxver (talk) 20:52, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Here "One of the nurses at the hospital, Ron Isaacs, was interested in Utermohlen for his drawings," how about "interested in Utermohlen's drawings"?
  • This doesn't sound like a complete sentence, "While in Europe, Utermohlen had his attention towards Diego Velázquez's 1650 Portrait of Pope Innocent X."
  • Merged the sentence with the sentence after; "According to New Statesman, he had saw the portrait and likened it to versions of the portrait created by Francis Bacon."
  • I think there is a word missing here, "In December 2000, Utermohlen had retired oil painting." I would have written "from oil painting", which sounds more idiomatic to my ears.
  • Here "Utermohlen's self portraits gained notoriety after his death" is "notoriety" the best word? How about "gained wider attention"?
  • Changed. Also moved placement of info in the sentence; "Utermohlen's self portraits gained further attention after they were published in a 2001 paper from The Lancet, which has often been attributed for the self portrait's popularity.[45]" Realmaxxver (talk) 20:52, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The meaning here is not clear to me, "Aagje Swinnen described some aspects that may have contributed to the success and medical research of Utermohlen's portraits."
  • And here, "But a reason for the medical research of Utermohlen's works, was his willingness for his artworks to be researched."

I think another copy-edit is needed, perhaps away from FAC, and the article re-nominated in a few weeks. Graham Beards (talk) 12:01, 12 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll read the article again tomorrow (Sunday GMT). --Graham Beards (talk) 21:25, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I made a few more changes this morning, mainly to eliminate redundancies. [2]. -Graham Beards (talk) 11:17, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Graham Beards, Do you Support or Oppose? Realmaxxver (talk) 23:36, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
FAC is about consensus rather than voting, but that said, the coordinators do need to see some unqualified support from reviewers. I think the article was nominated too soon and a lot of work was still needed on the prose. I have made a few edits but I still think the prose could benefit from fresh eyes. The best way to achieve this is to re-nominate the article in a few weeks time. In the intervening time, you might want to comment on other articles that are on the list at WP:FAC. Since you have forced my hand, I Oppose promotion at this time. Graham Beards (talk) 10:02, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
TBH, i should've just put this through peer review before doing this. Realmaxxver (talk) 19:14, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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