Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Bath City F.C. seasons/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 24 November 2023 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of Bath City F.C. seasons[edit]

List of Bath City F.C. seasons (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Krashaon19 (talk) 09:26, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it is high enough quality... Krashaon19 (talk) 09:26, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments
  • No article should start with "This is a list...."
  • Bath played in leagues prior to 1908 (eg Bristol and District League), so it isn't true that they only "joined competitive football" in that year
  • Link Western League in first sentence
  • "The club spent the first three years of its history in the early 1890s as Bath association football club" - is this relevant if the list doesn't start till 1908?
  • "though Bath has missed out" => "though Bath missed out" (election has not been an option for over 30 years, so this tense is more appropriate)
  • "including 1935, 1978 and in 1985" - why is "in" randomly in front of the last date?
  • "beating league sides such as; Crystal Palace" - no reason for semi-colon there
  • "Albeit, they were promoted" - no reason for "albeit"
  • "played in the conference for the first time since 1997" - Conference should have a capital letter, also it isn't linked, also you say they played in the Conference "again", but this is the first mention of it
  • "In total, Bath have won two Southern League Western Section titles - 1929–30, 1930–33, three" - you need a closing dash to mirror the starting dash, not a comma
  • You need the arrows to indicate promotion and relegation in the key
  • The top goalscorer column sorts alphabetically based on forename. It should sort based on surname
  • You should add a note indicating how Bath went from the WL to the SL in 1921
  • Bath were in the SL Premier Division from 1959 onwards, why do you just show this as "SL" in the table (making it look like they were relegated from the Southern League to the Southern League Division One, which makes no sense)
  • The Conference was a single division from 1986 until 2004 and was not called the Conference Premier, so the abbreviation CP is not appropriate
  • "Includes goals in the, Conference" - that comma is not needed
  • "League and cup matches (including Southern League, Alliance Premier League/Conference and National League South, and FA Cup and FA Trophy are counted, but excluding Western League and play-off matches)." - the closing bracket should be after National League South
  • "From 1920 to 1958, one of the highest levels of non-league football was The Southern League" - no reason for capital T on The
  • "....being on a similar level to that of the Football League Third Division" - this is not true
  • "Football League Fourth Division was created" - why is this relevant?
  • "no non-league teams were allowed to apply for election to the English Football League that year." - this is not true
  • "Though winning the division, Bath missed out on election to the English Football League for a second time." - it was not called the English Football League at that point in time
  • Also that note needs a full stop
  • "Bath missed out on election to the English Football League for a third time" - both those last two points apply here too
  • "With the formation of the Conference South in 2004, The Southern league became tier seven" - there should not be a capital on The, but there should be one on league
  • "Subsequently, The club" - no reason for capital T on the
  • What makes https://bathcityfcarchive.x10host.com/ a reliable source? It just looks like some random guy's personal website on a free hosting service
  • That's what I got -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:39, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks Chris will try and resolve these issues. Krashaon19 (talk) 18:25, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    One thing I would add, is that the source is reliable, though it's appearance is rather un-professional and a tad tatty, the creator and editor of the site is an employee of the club, he has been with City for 15 years and has vast knowledge of the club's history, the archive used to be on the official club site, but was moved when the Bath City website was redeveloped, though it looks like it, it is not just a random fan's free hosting service.
    Everything else you mentioned seems spot on though, and I will change it strait away. Krashaon19 (talk) 18:53, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't understand the note "Bath's closest chance to gaining entry into the football league, gaining 23 points, 3 points short of Wigan Athletic." Do you mean they got 23 votes in the election? If so, use the word "votes", as "points" is confusing given that they gained points during the season. And I am baffled where Wigan come into the picture. They were in the Third Division in 1985 so wouldn't have factored into the election voting in any way..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:07, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry the note was meant for the 1977–78 season. Krashaon19 (talk) 10:19, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It still doesn't make sense. In 1977-78, Bath finished top of the SL (Premier Div) with a record of played 42; won 22; drawn 18; lost 2; GF 83; GA 32; pts 62. Wigan finished second in the NPL with pld 46; w 25; d 15; l 6; gf 83; ga 45; pts 65. I don't see the figure 23 anywhere in these records. Also, you cannot compare points in one league with those in another league covering a different part of the country, especially when the number of matches played differed. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:37, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No sorry, it isn't clear, as Chris says the club claimed 23 votes in the election to the football league, not 23 points, I'll change it now. Krashaon19 (talk) 12:38, 25 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Krashaon19: - just wondering if you plan to return to this? A number of the points I raised a month ago (top goalscorer column sorting based on forename being one of the main ones) haven't been addressed as yet...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:41, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ah yes sorry! I have just been extremely busy in real life the past month. I didn't realise it was only the nominator who is able to edit, also as I explained to MyCatlsAChonk, I am not too sure how to change the sortname format, would extremely appreciate a helping hand in terms of the actual editing if that's allowed? Thanks, have a good day. :) Krashaon19 (talk) 10:48, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's not that only the nominator can edit the article, but it is expected that if someone nominates an article then they will be the one responding to and actioning issues raised. It's certainly OK to ask for guidance on how to do something but the onus is still on the nominator to actually make the changes to the best of their ability rather than expecting someone who has commented to make the changes which they themselves have raised. In terms of name sorting, I am more than happy to advise on that: you would need to use a template, so instead of having, for example, [[Joe Bloggs]] you would have {{sortname|Joe|Bloggs}} That would still display the same in the list but would sort based on B rather than J. Hope that helps!!! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:13, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks that is very helpful, I'll do my best, albeit, if it is me doing the majority (80-90%) of edits, this may take a long time. I'm just too busy in real life at the moment. I really would love to see this list gain featured article status, I have no idea how far off it is currently. Krashaon19 (talk) 13:06, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
MyCatIsAChonk
  • Earwig is showing a big copyvio issue on this site- though, I'm not sure if the site copied from Wikipedia. ChrisTheDude, what're your thoughts on this, being a much more experienced editor? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:29, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Add Template:Use British English or the like
  • The club is affiliated to the Somerset FA - to the Somerset? Should be with the Somerset- Or is this some football standard term Im unaware of?
  • The club were crowned Southern League champions - was crowned
    • Jumping in to add, it's actually correct as it stands in British English - team names are considered plural when referring to the actual team competing on the pitch (as opposed to the corporate entity which they represent). See, for example, this news article, the opening words of which are "Manchester United were crowned champions", or this one, which actually uses the exact wording "the club were crowned champions".... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:31, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • In total, Bath have won two - has won
    • Same as above. It's always "Liverpool have won the league" and never "Liverpool has won the league" -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:08, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for clarifying! Struck out those points MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 14:50, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • In total, Bath have won two Southern League Western Section titles - 1929–30, 1930–33 - three Southern League titles - 1959–60, 1977–78, 2006–07 - one Southern League Cup - one Football League North - 1943–44 and twenty five Somerset Premier Cups - this is divided oddly, and the dashes are not being used correctly. I think it'd be better with parentheses: "In total, Bath have won two Southern League Western Section titles (1929–30, 1930–33); three Southern League titles (1959–60, 1977–78, 2006–07); one Southern League Cup; one Football League North (1943–44) and twenty five Somerset Premier Cups"
    • Also, why no years for the Southern League Cup?
  • I know nothing about football, so I don't know what the letters in the headers under "League" mean; add a link or efn
  • All the names under the "Player(s)" header should be sorted by last name (see Help:Sortable tables for more info)
  • Why is the "Average attendance" column not sorting in number order?
  • The "Ref" header doesn't need to be sortable (see Help:Sortable tables#Making selected columns unsortable for details)
  • Footnotes a, d, e, f, g, h, i, and j all need citations
  • Why is Miller 2003 listed under "References" if no citations point towards it?
  • All the citations to the Bath Chronicle should have "Bath Chronicle" removed from the publisher parameter and put in the website parameter. Then, put British Newspaper Archive in the via parameter
  • Remove ISSN from ref 4 to comply with the style of other citations
  • What makes the following sources reliable:
    • www.totalguidetobath.com
    • bathcityfcarchive.x10host.com
  • Remove the period from the caption of the image, per MOS:QINQ

Krashaon19, all done; a bit of work needed, but lovely job on the consistency of the table cells! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:29, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, is it allowed if you edit some of the issues you listed above, or does it have to be the nominator? Just fairly inexperienced. Thanks. Krashaon19 (talk) 11:52, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Krashaon19, I certainly can, if you're confused about some- I do realize it can be confusing, particularly regarding the table formatting. What do you need assistance on? MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 14:45, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks so much! I'm not great at putting sources into notes and also changing the way in which a column is sorted. Probably some of the things that confuse me the most about what you listed. Krashaon19 (talk) 16:00, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Krashaon19, go ahead and address all the ones you can above. If you're confused about one, just leave it as is- if you fix it, use <s> and </s> to strikethrough the comments. This will tell me which ones need fixing by me. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:57, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
okay I'll do my best :) Krashaon19 (talk) 13:05, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'll strikethrough the errors that I've fixed now. (Apologies should've done this weeks ago.) Krashaon19 (talk) 11:46, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @MyCatIsAChonk! I've done my best with some of the errors you stated, albiet, looking through the list, I don't quite understand some of your points, sorry if I seem blunt:
  • "Why is Miller 2003 listed under "References" if no citations point towards it?" - I don't quite understand what you mean by this. I've added Kerry Miller's book in the "general reference" section.
  • "All the citations to the Bath Chronicle should have "Bath Chronicle" removed from the publisher parameter and put in the website parameter." Then, put British Newspaper Archive in the via parameter - The Bath Chronicle is the publisher of the source, not the website I found the information on?
  • "I know nothing about football, so I don't know what the letters in the headers under "League" mean; add a link or efn" - I assume the majority of viewers reading a sixth tier, non-league club's season history article will know at least a bit about football.
  • "What makes the following sources reliable: bathcityfcarchive.x10host.com" - I have explained this to Chris above.
  • "Remove the period from the caption of the image, per MOS:QINQ" Nearly every football club article on the English Wikipedia states the period that an image was taken, surely the reader should be able to view this?
I apologise if I'm being ignorant, perhaps you could elaborate in more detail some of the issues stated above if I have misinterpreted, thanks a lot :)
Everything else you have stated seems spot on, and I have either fixed it, or I am currently in the process of fixing it (e.g. adding citations to the notes) Krashaon19 (talk) 10:33, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Krashaon19 wonderful! Clarifications below:
  • Apologies, I'm not sure why I wrote the Miller one, I can now see the references
  • The Bath Chronicle is a newspaper, not the publisher. British Newspaper Archive is simply archiving tons of newspapers for use. The Template for those should be cite news rather than cite web- it will provide more accurate parameters
  • We cannot assume a reader will understand a topic well enough to comprehend something. What if they found this article because it's the TFL? What if they got here through the "Random article" button? No, all the details here must be clarified
  • No, I mean the literal period, as in the punctuation. MOS:CAPFRAG (QINQ was the wrong policy, sorry) says that periods should be excluded when there's no complete sentence
MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 21:10, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@MyCatIsAChonk: - in the nom's defence, many people here in the UK don't know that that punctuation mark is called a period in other parts of the world. Here in the UK we call it a full stop....... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:35, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ah thanks for the clarification, very helpful, I'll go about fixing these issues now. :) Krashaon19 (talk) 22:17, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Great, I'll strikethrough comments that I've fixed if that's alright. Krashaon19 (talk) 22:55, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - very good work! And, thanks for the clarification Chris. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 20:41, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Great! Thanks @ChrisTheDude and @MyCatIsAChonk for your help, very much appreciate it Is there anything else that needs to be done? Have a good week. Krashaon19 (talk) 10:52, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not for me! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 13:10, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Cool! Do you know if the article is close to getting to featured list status? I'm not really sure what to do now. Any thoughts on this @ChrisTheDude? Krashaon19 (talk) 11:45, 9 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'll take another look over the weekend -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:40, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
One quick thing - the average attendance column does not sort correctly, it treats 500 as being higher than 4,940 -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:45, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's caused by the comma.  Fixed by using the data-sort-value= attribute. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 23:35, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
One last question.......there are separate notes against the headers at the top and bottom of the "top goalscorer" column (notes C and K) and they contradict each other in terms of which competitions are counted. So which is accurate...? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:48, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes you’re right, note K shouldn’t exist, I’ve removed it and added some competitions to citation C, it’s accurate now. Krashaon19 (talk) 15:30, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Accessibility review (MOS:DTAB)[edit]

  • Tables need captions, which allow screen reader software to jump straight to named tables without having to read out all of the text before it each time. Visual captions can be added by putting |+ caption_text as the first line of the table code; if that caption would duplicate a nearby section header, you can make it screen-reader-only by putting |+ {{sronly|caption_text}} instead.
  • Tables need column scopes for all column header cells, which in combination with row scopes lets screen reader software accurately determine and read out the headers for each cell of a data table. Column scopes can be added by adding !scope=col to each header cell, e.g. ! rowspan="2" |Season becomes !scope=col rowspan="2" |Season. If the cell spans multiple columns with a colspan, then use !scope=colgroup instead.
  • Tables need row scopes on the "primary" column for each row, which in combination with column scopes lets screen reader software accurately determine and read out the headers for each cell of a data table. Row scopes can be added by adding !scope=row to each primary cell, e.g. ![[1901–02 in English football|1901–02]] becomes !scope=row | [[1901–02 in English football|1901–02]]. If the cell spans multiple rows with a rowspan, then use !scope=rowgroup instead.
  • Please see MOS:DTAB for example table code if this isn't clear. I don't return to these reviews until the nomination is ready to close, so ping me if you have any questions. --PresN 00:46, 28 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source review passed; promoting. --PresN 17:17, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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