Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Rosenborg BK records and statistics/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 20:09, 11 July 2012 [1].

List of Rosenborg BK records and statistics[edit]

List of Rosenborg BK records and statistics (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Arsenikk (talk) 10:03, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The list is based on similar lists for other teams and I believe it to be both complete and meet the criteria. Arsenikk (talk) 10:03, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from NapHit (talk) 22:34, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Instead of piping the Tippeligean and Norwegian Football Cup I would use the full links to give a bit context to the reader. Also as you refer to it as the top league some readers may mistake that for the real name, so best to unripe the links
  • "Since it has only spent 1978 at a lower tier." -> It has only spent one season outside the Tippleigean since, which was in 1978.
    • Fixed. The reason I keep using "top league" is because of a name change from First Division from 1991, after which the First Division became the second tier. Thus using the term Tippeligaen for 1978 would be incorrect. Arsenikk (talk) 18:35, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The best result is reaching the quarter-finals of the 1996–97 UEFA Champions League[1] and co-winning the 2008 UEFA Intertoto Cup." I'm not sure best result is correct, as you can't compare these two achievements, as one is a win and the other is a quarter-final berth.
  • "Harald Martin Brattbakk is 151 goals the club's all-time top scorer..." This sentence does not make sense
  • "Odd Iversen holds the game record of 6 goals and the season record of 30 goals." -> Odd Iversen holds the record for most goals in a single match and season, with 6 and 30 respectively.
  • "John Carew is the club's most expensive sale, being sold to Valencia for 75 million Norwegian krone in 2000." The club received their highest transfer fee for John Carew; they received 75 million Norwegian krone when he was sold to Valencia in 2000.
  • Avoid bold links per WP:CONTEXTLINK
  • I don' think you need the message above every section stating what it is, its redundant as the section headers do that job
    • I've removed them where redundant, but sometimes they add necessary definitions (such as time period or limiting to the top league). Arsenikk (talk) 18:35, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The tables fail MOS:DTT, you need to add row and col scopes to them. Also they are a bit bare, do you not have information, for different cup competitions, like Norwegan Cup, Europe etc, so it can be formatted like the appearances table in the Liverpool list?
    • I've added for European matches. No statistics exist for the cup, so I have left that out. Arsenikk (talk) 18:35, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Caps in the appearances table should be changed to appearances as that is what header states
  • Avoid use hash as a table header per MOS:HASH
  • Images could do with alt text
  • No need to link Hibernian twice in record defeats section
  • In the streaks sections, do you not the have information for losing streaks? Its not exactly neutral with just winning streaks at the moment
    • I agree that it is not neutral, but I have not been able to find statistics for losing streaks. Had I found it I would have added it. Arsenikk (talk) 18:35, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • likewise in wins/draws/losses in a season, would be a good idea to have lowest points total in a season
    • I presume my thought when creating the article was that it would be comparing apples and bananas, as Rosenborg has had an 4-game season in 1932 and a 30-game season lately. However, I have added the relevant information. Arsenikk (talk) 18:35, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Again attendance section its one sided with highest totals only, would add lowest attendances as well for neutrality.
    • A bit limited number of sources available, but I've found a few and added those. Arsenikk (talk) 18:35, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Bit curious about the league away attendance how is that a record and verifiable?
    • The bottom table in the reference contains a list of "the most attended RBK away games in Norway". Ranks 1–10 are cup finals, while the 11th place is a league match. Arsenikk (talk) 18:35, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref 22 needs an author
  • ref 23 the scoreline needs an en dash
  • you have both rec sport soccer statistics foundation and RSSSF in the refs, be consistent, ideally the first as acronyms should be spelled out
  • would also spell out uefa as well
  • One more comment, would add a total column to the appearances and goalscorers tables, do give more context to the reader. NapHit (talk) 22:33, 31 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

NapHit (talk) 18:24, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Giants2008 (Talk) 20:04, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments –
  • Space needed in "thequarter-finals" towards the end of the first paragraph.
  • "has play 416 league matches". "play" → "played".
  • The tables in the Players section should be sortable by last name, not first name. The second one isn't sortable at all, which is a surprise. It would be nice, especially given the presence of sortability in the first table.
    • All tables are now sortable and all players are sorted by surname. Arsenikk (talk) 22:38, 31 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Goalscorer: "A asterisk" → "An asterist"? Also, this table isn't sortable either. Neither is the next one. What was the basis for determining which tables to have sorting for, and which not to?
  • Most-winning: "as well as the years they player took the titles." "they" → "the".
  • UEFA is fully spelled out in reference 9, but not in any of the other refs. To me, the best way of handling this is to spell it out consistently, but this creates a lot of annoying work. An easier alternate method is to spell out the first usage of UEFA in ref 1, with the abbreviated version in parentheses immediately afterward; once done, it's okay to leave UEFA in the other refs. Giants2008 (Talk) 21:28, 31 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • All spelled out for consistency. Thanks for the feedback. Arsenikk (talk) 22:38, 31 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 16:11, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • You could consider making the lead image a little larger, I think up to 300px or so?
  • You link the 1960 cup but not the 1932 cup. There may not be an article yet but you should be consistent I think.
  • "winning it in its inaugural season" presumably you mean the club winning the league in its first season, at the moment it's unclear what "its" relates to, the club or the league (and the league was operating before that season....)
  • "win is 17–0 against Buvik in 2003; the league record " in what competition?
  • "season when it had only won a single match" -> "season having won just a single match."
  • Better to pipe link Undefeated season to Perfect season#Association football.
  • "He also holds the most titles, " not really, I don't think individuals get "titles", the clubs do, the players just have then honour of playing in a league or cup winning team.
  • "The club received their higNorwegian Premier Leaguehest transfer..." second sentence of lead using "It is..." whereas here you use plural...
  • "Norwegian Premier League[11][12][13]" would prefer a colon after League (and similarly for the others).
  • Eggen caption needs a full stop.
    • A bit embarrassing missing with so many captions, but they should all be fixed now. Arsenikk (talk) 12:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Our 2008 Intertoto cup article says Braga won, not that Rosenborg shared it with them... This probably needs a note here.
  • Strand's caption needs a full stop.
  • So does Johnsen's.
  • Not sure of the necessity to relink things in the same section (e.g. you link Iversen three times in quick succession in the goalscorers section.
  • "An asterist (*)" that's asterisk.
    • Gee, the last reviewer told me to replace the x with a t :P Fixed. Arsenikk (talk) 12:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the Most-winning section, I think it should say it's the number of times a player has won a title with the club.
  • Winsnes caption needs a full stop.
  • First UEFA match: - which competition?
  • In Europe table, anchor the total row so it doesn't "sort".
    • Got the opportunity to learn some new syntax today too. Arsenikk (talk) 12:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "are from the 1967 season." not really, you mean they only take into account matches from the 1967 season onward.
    • Yes, indeed it would be odd to only have attendance statistics from one season. Arsenikk (talk) 12:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Things like the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation aren't works, they're publishers, so they shouldn't be in italics.
    • Fixed. I've left the two newspapers in italics. Arsenikk (talk) 12:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 14:45, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all the good tips and feedback—the article is shining even more now :) Arsenikk (talk) 12:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Mattythewhite (talk) 22:07, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • File:RBK-Valencia 2-0.JPG does not use alt text.
  • I think "and Norwegian Football Cup 9 times" would read better with as "and the Norwegian Football Cup 9 times".
  • "in the club's inaugural season" - that gives me the impression that the club's first season is being referred to, rather than the league's first season. Perhaps use an alternative like "in its inaugural season" or "in the club's inaugural top tier season".
  • "starting with the 1965–66 European Cup Winners' Cup." is uncited.
  • "with the second-best performance the quarter-finals of the" - feels like there' something missing. Perhaps "with the second-best performance being the quarter-finals of the"?
  • "Sigurd Rushfeldt is the league's all-time top scorer" - I think this is ambiguous; do you mean he's the club's highest league scorer or he's the Norweigan league highest scorer?
    • Stated that only some of these were for Rosenborg, which in connection with the content of the previous sentence should make it clear. Arsenikk (talk) 14:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "they received 75 million Norwegian krone when he was sold to Valencia in 2000" - could the euro equivalent be added in parentheses? According to the Carew article it's €8.5 million, although that figure is uncited.
    • I have though about the issue a few times, but I have not been able to find good sources for the foreign exchange rates, although I agree that € and £ conversions would be optimal. Let me take a second look at this. Arsenikk (talk) 14:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • A number of the Norwegian Premier League titles came under the league's former name, so would it be better to retitle "Norwegian Premier League:" as "Norwegian First Division / Norwegian Premier League:"?
  • Does "The double" really constitute an honour in itself? It's an achievement of course, but the victories comprising those doubles are already noted.
    • Not per ce, but it is usually regarded as a historical achievement. By listing them it is easy to see which years it took place, instead of the reader having to hunt through two independent lists.
  • Why are the leagues from the League of Norway District VIII to the Second Division regarded as "Minor" as opposed to "Major"? If they're all competed for in the same national league structure shouldn't they all be classified as "Major"?
    • The League of Norway, despite being the top league, had eight conferences, with the conference winners playing a play-off. It is listed as minor because Rosenborg won its conference but not the championship title. Arsenikk (talk) 14:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • With them being friendly tournaments, are the La Manga Cup and the Trofeo Santiago Bernabéu really noteworthy? I mean, I would hope the Premier League Asia Trophy wouldn't be included in the corresponding Chelsea list, for example.
    • I would evaluate them as minor titles in the club's history. To be quite fair, a comparison of Chelsea and Rosenborg regarding honors it not really a fair match. Both of these are major, international tournaments which do draw a fair media attention. Arsenikk (talk) 14:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Chelsea might not be the best example with their large trophy haul, but any club that has competed in pre-season tournaments such as these would be suitable enough as examples. Do you think it would be worth adding a footnote beside these two competitions noting that they're pre-season tournaments? Obviously the reader will be aware of that if they access their articles through the given wikilinks, but I think that might be worth making clear on this list. Mattythewhite (talk) 15:02, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • I have made a comment about the inclusion of pre-season tournaments. Arsenikk (talk) 21:40, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Appearances" - why no cup apps?
    • Because no complete compilation of cup apps per player is available, online or offline. The official web site operates with figures, but these are noted as being incomplete for several decades of seasons. Arsenikk (talk) 14:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • That's a shame, considering lower-league English clubs have such info readily available with Complete Record-type volumes. It might be worth noting somewhere above or in the table (and for the "Goalscorers" table") that cup apps aren't included and so the "Total" column isn't completely total? Mattythewhite (talk) 15:02, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • It seems there is not the same tradition for this type of statistics in Norway, although perhaps such stats will be available in the future. I have added a note to emphasize the exclusion of cup stats. Arsenikk (talk) 21:40, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Seasons" - it's pretty obvious the list accounts for longest-serving players by number of seasons, but I think that should be explained above the table, like you've done for the previous table.
    • Hm, the previous reviewer told me to remove that line of information.
  • "Goalscorers" - no cup goals.
  • "Transfer fee records" - do you not have access to details for the record fees for players signed?
    • I have not found any reliable list of transfer fees for incoming players and I fear anything I would create would be OR. Arsenikk (talk) 14:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "First official match: 1928" - what does official mean in this context? Do you mean league?
    • Refers to when Rosenborg was allowed to join the Football Association of Norway, which I have tried to specify. Arsenikk (talk) 14:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Record wins" - don't think we need the "Overall" win since the readers can work that out for themselves.
  • Likewise for "Record defeats". Also, it would be good to know what the record cup defeat was.
    • I would also like to know, but I have not found a source which could inform us. Arsenikk (talk) 14:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Streaks" - no "Longest drawing streak"? Or "Longest losing streak"?
    • If some reliable source had published them, I would too. Arsenikk (talk) 14:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "from the 1967 season." - do you mean "from the 1967 season onwards"?

Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 16:58, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nice review...! The Rambling Man (talk) 18:05, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, nice review. Everything should have been answered and fixed where applicable. I'll try to find some foreign prices for the players. Arsenikk (talk) 14:51, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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