Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of former Football League clubs

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Scorpion0422 00:09, 28 August 2008 [1].

List of former Football League clubs[edit]

I have shaped this list in the mould of List of former Scottish Football League clubs, which has successfully passed the FLC process. The list has undergone a peer review, which brought to attention issues that have since been amended. Thanks, Mattythewhite (talk) 09:45, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I think the Accrington Stanley row should mention that a reformed club under the same name are now playing in the FL. Also the Wimbledon row should mention AFC Wimbledon. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 15:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Then Support per nom. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 17:40, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • When you say "depending on the Conference clubs' ability to meet FA requirements", do you mean the club that has been relegated or clubs within the Conference National? What happens if they don't meet the FA requirements? Are they then not relegated, or are they just kicked out? naerii 16:50, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    •  Done This is referring to the Conference clubs and the club would simply not be relegated. I've tried to clarify this in the article. Mattythewhite (talk) 16:57, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, loooks good. naerii 17:02, 15 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved stuff from NapHit

Comments from NapHit (talk · contribs)

  • The First Division and Division One are both used choose one and stick with it
  • The notes should be under a separate heading as seen here
That's all great work NapHit (talk) 16:51, 17 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support fantastic work well done NapHit (talk) 12:24, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Some thoughts / comments from me:

  • The lead doesn't actually discuss the list in much detail, just the history of the Football League. So, for example, do we need to know here that the league was suspended during WWI? Why not add in some information about the list e.g. that all current members of the Premier League were once members of the Football League (not immediately obvious from this list), the number of clubs that are out of business, the club that has fallen the furthest in the pyramid etc.
    •  Done Added some extra information about the list itself in the lead. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is this a complete list? If so, is there a source for it being a complete list?
    •  Done Soccerbase has reocrd of all the clubs to have played in the Football League - I've added it as a general reference. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      •  Not done where does Soccerbase show that this is a complete list? BencherliteTalk 19:24, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Nowhere speficially, but their past league tables show which clubs were in the Football League. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:46, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          •  Done I've now added a complete list of clubs to have played in the Football League. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Fourth Division, now League Two" – just "League Two" (you've already told us that it used to be the Fourth Division)
    •  Done Changed. I included Fourth Division as for the 2003–04 season this is what the division was known as. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "face relegation to the Conference" – do you mean that they are relegated, or that they only might be?
    • I'd say it's only a rarity that teams won't be relegated. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Not quite the point I was making; on re-reading, it might be clearer if that sentence was swapped with the previous one, and the point made that that season saw an increase in the number of relegated teams from 1 to 2. Incidentally, is it the 2002/3 season or the 2003/4 season? I assume the former given the contents of the reference, but it could be clearer; similarly with 1987 (1986/7 or 1987/8?)
        •  Done I've clarified which seasons these changes were implemented. Mattythewhite (talk) 19:46, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

*Clubs from Wales - I can see a couple of names lower down that are Welsh, but my understanding was that Cardiff and Swansea (and, until last season, Wrexham) were very much the exception to the English-only set up. Is this susceptible of easy clarification?

    • Not sure what you mean. The league may only contain two Welsh clubs, but at the end of the day there are still Welsh clubs in the Football League. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • What I mean is that the FA governs football in England, the FAW governs football in Wales and there's a different league structure in Wales to England; having said that, it probably requires too much explanation to fit neatly into the lead....
  • "depending on the ability of the Conference clubs' pending promotion to meet FA requirements" misuses the possessive apostrophe – how about "although they would not be relegated if the Conference National champions could not be promoted for not meeting FA ground requirements", or something along those lines
  • Should the "notes" columns be "refs", as it leads to "References", not "Notes"?

Looking good generally, though, and well done for making it sortable (something I was going to suggest had I got round to posting earlier!) BencherliteTalk 16:48, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments updated. BencherliteTalk 19:24, 18 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Struway2 (talk) 17:44, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • "The list includes clubs that are current members of the Premier League, who lost their Football League after being admitted, and those which lost their status by other means." The middle bit doesn't make sense.
  • Would it be more helpful with the Soccerbase league table links, to link to each club's last Football League season table? For instance, the Thames F.C. reference links to the current Premier League table, and my instant reaction was that the link was wrong, till I looked further down the page to find the dropdown for league tables including Thames. If you add the seasonid parameter to the url, you could link to 1931/32 Div 3S, their last FL season.
    •  Done Changed links to last season in the Football League. Mattythewhite (talk) 12:55, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would it be clearer if the heading to the current Prem clubs table included the season? either instead of Current or in brackets at the end of the heading.
  • Would it be helpful to add sourced notes of why each club left the FL? presumably most were just relegated or not re-elected.
    • Where would you say these notes should be displayed? Mattythewhite (talk) 13:04, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • In a column of their own; two possibilities
        1. add a narrowish column that just says Relegated/Not re-elected/Resigned/Liquidated/whatever it is, then if it's worth going into more detail, do it in the footnotes section, like you've already done with Leeds City and Maidstone, or if not just add a reference. Relegated clubs would source to the existing Soccerbase ref anyway so for those you wouldn't need another ref.
        2. add a column the same width as the Current status column (make them both 25-30%) and put any detail in the column.
      • If you think either of those would work? While I think of it, you don't really need the word Currently in "Currently playing in..." column entries, the heading already says Current status. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:08, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Would you say this is the kind of thing you're thinking of? Also, I think I'll switch all the references to FCHD, as it covers both the reason for leaving the league as well as seasons in the league. Would be redundant to have it and Soccerbase. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:13, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yes, that's fine; and FCHD is certainly easier to check the relevant facts from. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 17:33, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
            •  Done Column for the reason for dropping out of the league has now been included. Mattythewhite (talk) 18:37, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The existing footnotes need sources.

Sorry I missed the peer review, much of this stuff could have been sorted out there. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:00, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:53, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • I can't tell from reading their respective Wiki articles whether the former Football League club South Shields F.C., which relocated to Gateshead, should count as the same club as the former Football League club Gateshead A.F.C., or a different one, along the lines of Wimbledon which you count as different from MK Dons.
    •  Done Ive counted them as seperate clubs, like that of Wimbledon and MK Dons. Mattythewhite (talk) 17:13, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, the Gateshead F.C. currently playing in the Conf North isn't the same club as the Football League one (see its FCHD page).
  • If it might help, there's a complete list of clubs having played in the Football League here; I think you've got them all. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 16:19, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Otherwise sources look good, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:19, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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