Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 June 9

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June 9

Communitas Charter High School

Hello everyone. User:Materialscientist undid my edit to the article Communitas Charter High School and I did fix the issue he cited by citing the school's website where I found the letter, however, it's likely they'll shut down the website as they'll have little use for it due to the fact the school's closing. I am trying to use Wayback Machine to find a "safe" source that would not be deleted, however it appears wayback's last check only captured the intro page and nothing else. Would anyone have any idea on how to bypass it? school link: http://www.communitascharter.org/ wayback link: web.archive.org/web/20130526162356/http://communitascharter.org/

In addition: I am finding third-party sources but being a former Wikipedian editor, I am familiar with some of the old rules but have forgotten the specific details of each one, my concern is whether any of the sources are independent? Also, I am confused over the rule for what I believe is WP:NPOV and WP:BIAS as I am a student here, in fact today is Communitas' last day. Am I technically not allowed to edit this article or do I only need to be more careful in avoiding bias? I'd work further on this article, but I am very busy today. I will check back later on here.

76.102.32.220 (talk) 14:24, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Commons Link

My userpage gallery is become harder and harder to maintain. I've been trying (without luck) to replace the userpage gallery with my commons "Category:Photographs by Wiki ian" which will involve some interwiki typing but trial and error gets me no-where and I have no idea where to find the answer. Your help would be much appreciated, Wiki ian 00:59, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

The link [[:commons:Category:Photographs by Wiki ian]] produces commons:Category:Photographs by Wiki ian. Is that what you want? If you want to display the contens of the category on a page here then it's not possible. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:46, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Please note WP:NOTWEBHOST. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 17:57, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Notability Question About Store

I would like to write an article about a local store that is considered a "community institution". My question has to do with the business notability guidelines. According to Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies), "On the other hand, attention solely from local media, or media of limited interest and circulation, is not an indication of notability; at least one regional, national, or international source is necessary." Is the Washington Post considered a regional source as one of the two secondary sources that I have found? Robert McClenon (talk) 02:21, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Possibly. With a borderline notability call like this, the depth of coverage in your various sources will probably be the clincher, though. WP:RSN is probably the best place to ask. - Karenjc 08:01, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Incorrect photo

When I googled Alfred Masters a picture of Jimmy Stewart is seen instead of his. How do I remove that one and upload a correct photo of Alfred Masters for both the Wikipedia article about him and a picture for the internet search? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Desertdragon11111 (talk • contribs) 03:14, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

From previous questions here, this is a Google problem. It is displaying content from Wikipedia and other sites. We have no control over Google and what it displays. RudolfRed (talk) 04:23, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

(ec) Do you mean the picture that appears on the Google search results page? That has nothing to do with Wikipedia, and we have no control over it. The wikipedia page Alfred Masters doesn't contain an image. If you know of one that's in the public domain, you could upload it to Wikimedia Commons. Rojomoke (talk) 04:30, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Regarding uploading an image of Masters, see Wikipedia:Uploading images. Note that there are strict conditions regarding copyright etc. AndyTheGrump (talk) 04:32, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Need help sorting a page move

Hi, I'm trying to move sex back to sexy where it belongs but the move won't go through. It says that the article "coronavirus" already exists. I need help sorting this. Someone moved Coronavirus to Coronavirinae back in May and his edit summary says they are the same thing. But they're not. The current article is about Coronavirus which is the species and that's the name the article should rightly have. Coronavirinae is the subfamily. There is an important distinction. The page move is too old to simply 'undo' what with all the edits that came after. Can someone help? Also, I'm writing the article "coronavirinae' so I need that to go back to being a red link. I'd appreciate help tonight, as this is the time I have to write the article. Thanks. Malke 2010 (talk) 06:08, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Looks like you sorted it out. Rojomoke (talk) 07:33, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

So sorry I didn't get back here so you wouldn't go to any trouble. I was able to ask Malik Shabazz for help as he was still online. My apologies. And thank you for your efforts.Malke 2010 (talk) 07:49, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Need help with referencing a Wikipedia web page from another Wikipedia web page

Can someone please help me with the editing of the page at Card stock so that my clarifying statement correctly references the Wikipedia web page at Typographic unit. My clarifying statements says ""The US Card Stock Thickness Point size is 0.001". It must not be confused with the US Typographical Point Size of 1 point = 1/ 12 traditional pica = exactly 0.013 83 inch = 0.351 36 mm. "" I want to add a reference in my clarifying statement that refers to the web page at Typographic unit. How do I add a reference into my clarifying statement ? Thanks ! DanMcGarigle — Preceding unsigned comment added by DanMcGarigle (talk • contribs) 06:25, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia can't use itself as a reference. If you have a reliable source in the typographic unit article, just refer to the same source in the card stock article. JIP | Talk 07:30, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

You could simply add a wikilink to the sentence at an appropriate place, such as: ""The US Card Stock Thickness Point size is 0.001". It must not be confused with the US Typographical Point Size of 1 point = 1/ 12 traditional pica = exactly 0.013 83 inch = 0.351 36 mm. "" I think that would be sufficient, the curious reader can then simply follow the link to the other article. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:34, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Creating a new Commons category

Is this the correct place to ask about WikiMedia Commons? I feel the need to create a new category in Commons. Do I just create it or do I need to discuss it somewhere first? I have found that there are quite many images of nude or partially nude women in bondage in the category commons:Category:Bondage, but there is no category commons:Category:Nude or partially nude women in bondage. There is only the rather specific category commons:Category:Women wearing high-heeled shoes in bondage but no category commons:Category:Women in bondage by clothing or anything. JIP | Talk 06:37, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

There's a Commons:Help_desk. Rojomoke (talk) 07:37, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Roberto Chabet Biography

Dear Wikipedia,

I am Ringo Bunoan, the archivist for the artist Roberto Chabet, who recently passed away. I do not know who created his profile on Wikipedia, but I know that the information has been vandalized several times by some users. What has been written is false, malicious and damaging to his reputation. I just edited the page a while ago to remove the offensive revisions and I will be closely monitoring the page.

I am appealing to Wikipedia to address this serious matter. I understand your position in enabling the public to create information but when the information is incorrect and hurtful, I believe you should do something to stop it.

Ringo Bunoan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.144.70.44 (talk) 08:32, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for reverting the vandalism introduced into the article by an unregistered IP address just over a month ago, in this edit. Wikipedia takes vandalism seriously and.encourages users to revert edits such as this on sight. Users patrol constantly for vandalism and much of it is indeed caught within a very short time. You are most welcome to watch this article closely, and revert any further unequivocal vandalism of this type. However, please bear in mind that you have a conflict of interest due to your relationship to the subject of the article, and you are discouraged from editing the article in other ways. If you want to make any changes to it other than the reversion of unequivocal vandalism, the way forward is to start a discussion on the article's talk page. -Karenjc 10:06, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Ringo. It is possible to ask for a page to be semiprotected, so that unregistered users cannot edit it; but requests will normally only be granted if a page has been subject to frequent vandalism. As far as I can see, Roberto Chabet has only been vandalised once recently, and while this must be distressing to somebody who knew a recently deceased person, it is probably not serious enough for Wikipedia to justify protection. --ColinFine (talk) 10:21, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

User:Alex4128

The user page for Alex4128 steals my biographical content right off my own user page and is used to promote a sex site. Probably a fake, please help me in getting this page deleted, thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Slugguitar (talk • contribs) 09:18, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I have created a separate header for this request. Thanks for noticing it, I have found that User:Alex4128's only contribution ever was to copy your user page and add a link to a sex site to it. This was five and a half years ago. I have deleted the user page and blocked User:Alex4128 indefinitely as it's unlikely the user account will ever be used for anything other than vandalism. JIP | Talk 09:36, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

bhagat singh is a song with singers honey sing and Nishawn Bhullar there is mistake about it in honey singh's data page

bhagat singh is a song with singers honey sing and Nishawn Bhullar there is mistake about it in honey singh's data page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.205.79.234 (talk) 13:16, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

If you have a reliable source for your information, then you are welcome to edit the article Honey Singh to correct it. (Actually, the current information is not sourced, so you could change it anyway. But it would be better if you could cite a published source). --ColinFine (talk) 19:03, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Anthony NOGHES

As I am his son, I believe I am entitled to edit the page dedicated to my father Antony NOGHES. His first name was misspelled Anthony instead of Antony. I have also allowed myself to add some of his significant achievements and to remove a reference that is not relevant. Gilles NOGHES — Preceding unsigned comment added by GIALERNO (talk • contribs) 14:16, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I see that you have already changed all instances of his name in the article. I searched for information and it all points to his name being Anthony. For this reason I am hesitant to move the page. Could you perhaps give me some more info as to why his name would be misspelt? Falkirks^Talk 14:36, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

You also removed the Reflist which created an error. I have put it back. Please refrain from adding more unsourced material to replace the sourced material. Falkirks^Talk 14:40, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

There are plenty of sources using Antony, e.g., [1]. There just appear to be more that use Anthony.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 16:27, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Gilles. As his son, you are positively discouraged from editing that page, for reasons explained at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. You are very welcome to make suggestions for editing the page, on its talk page Talk:Antony Noghès, but you should leave it to uninvolved editors to make the changes. Any suggestions you do make are much more likely to be taken up if you provide citations to reliable published sources for the information.

As for the name, I see that the only discussion so far on the talk page is a question from 2011 (unanswered) asking which spelling to use. That question said that the MCA webpage had both spellings on the same page, but at present it says only 'Anthony'. Given that the references are divided, I have moved the page according to your request. --ColinFine (talk) 19:27, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Correction

Re Wikpedia article on my father, Rabbi Arthur J. Lelyveld: I am incorrectly identified as follows: "His son David Lelyveld is an authority on the frontier tribes of South Asia and is Professor of History at William Patterson University." I am a historian of Modern India with a special interest in South Asian Muslims [NOT frontier tribes]. I retired a year ago from my position as Professor of History at William Paterson University and am now an independent scholar. David Lelyveld

Corrected text:"His son David Lelyveld is a historian of Modern India with a special interest in South Asian Muslims. He retired in 2012 as Professor of History at William Paterson University and is now an independent scholar." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.107.167 (talk) 15:45, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I've changed the text, though not to what you requested. Neither the existing nor proposed information has a source (citation); more importantly, even if there was a source, the article is about Arthur Lelyveld, not his children, so it should not go into any detail about them, unless that's relevant to his life as described in an acceptable source. (Doing some quick checking on the web, the proposed text looks correct, but that's not the point, I think.) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 18:37, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

should a footnote be concise

Is it preferable to write a footnote without quotation, like:' <rrrref>Morris (2008), p. 81.</rrrref>'

or is it better to include a citation, like: '<rrrref>Morris, 1948, p. 81. "At the start of the civil war, Whitehall believed that the Arabs would prevail. “In the long run the Jews would not be able to cope . . . and would be thrown out of Palestine unless they came to terms with [the Arabs],” was the considered judgment of the Chief of the Imperial General Staff"</rrrref> ' Ykantor (talk) 16:18, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

So, to continue with your example, the way I would do it depends on the number of references to one specific book in an article. If there's only one or two, I'd use {{cite book}} or the appropriate template each time, and then {{reflist}} under a header at the bottom. If there's more than 2 or so, I'd use a list at the bottom under a Bibliography heading with one instance of the {{cite book}} template, and then for the references use <ref>Morris p17</ref> or something like that, to reference the bibliography entry. Regardless, it's usually not normal to include a quotation in the reference. Hope this helps - Charmlet (talk) 16:49, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Agree with Charmlet. There are numerous citation styles that we use here (see WP:CITEVAR), and some of them use the shortened citations like you're giving. Regarding the quotation, that's normally not a good idea. Really the only reason to give a quotation is to enable others to see what it says; a quotation like this is only useful under the fair use standards, so if it's not needed, it's inappropriate. Since someone can always click a link for an online source, you shouldn't quote them in citations. Generally, the only time it's done is with an obscure print source ("please provide the text, since I can't get the source to verify it") or with a really contentious topic for which people want to be sure that you're not twisting the meaning of the source. With all that said, I'd advise you never to include a quote unless others ask for it. Nyttend (talk) 01:32, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Charmlet and Nyttend. I accept your advice of course. However, for my curiosity only, initially I had the opposite view. the reasons:

• It is better to keep the article as concise as possible, thus it would be better to move the citation to the footnote.
• If the article concise text is not sufficiently detailed, one can read more in the citation (in the footnote).

Again, it is for my curiosity only. Ykantor (talk) 10:38, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

"If the article concise text is not sufficiently detailed..." add more detail to the article. Wikipedia is not paper so pages can stretch and split into more pages without any (practical) limit. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:38, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, it is not a paper, but there are desired limitations. e.g. > 100 kB Almost certainly should be divided . However, there are much larger articles. Anyway, one can not split articles of Churchill or WW2. It might be condensed, but that is a lot of work. Who would volunteer to concise it? Ykantor (talk) 15:19, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

In all the years I've been here I have never seen a long article that could not be split, so IMHO that argument doesn't hold water. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:23, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

timer uses

dear sir, i want to know that "how could we use timer with a command button"

thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.78.9.218 (talk) 16:38, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I took the trouble to reformat your question. The Help Desk is a forum for asking about using Wikipedia itself. Based on your question, I think you want to ask at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Computing, although "how could we use timer with a command button" is very vague. Which operating system? Which development environment? JIP | Talk 17:32, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Information about the place Flåm

All the photos are from Fretheim. The real Flåm, is were the chuch is. Flåm harbour, and Flåm station is located at Fretheim. The farm Flåm, is 3,5 kilomerter from Fretheim and the sea (fjord). Nice if somebody also could show pictures from the real Flåm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.213.146.180 (talk) 17:41, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit the article, citing reliable sources, or discuss on the article talk page. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:35, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

A reversion that wasn't

I was notified that my very minor edit was reverted. However, the supposed reversion was not a reversion of my edit at all. Any idea how this happens? Is this a known bug? Thanks, Brycehughes (talk) 18:58, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

From what I understand, the WP:Echo system notifies you of a "reversion" when an edit is made using the WP:UNDO or WP:ROLLBACK features of the MediaWiki software. What this looks like is that someone hit "undo", but then didn't actually undo your edit but made another edit instead. I would say that it's nothing to be worried about :) Happy editing! Charmlet (talk) 19:28, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

The IP has done this many times. I have posted to User talk:190.124.162.159#Use of the Undo link. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:49, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

table formatting de-bug

See the font of the two captions in the figure table here. It looks like the left font is smaller. Please make it bigger so it matches that on the right.TCO (talk) 22:13, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

It looks the same to me in Firefox. Try to clear your cache. Does it still look different? What is your browser? PrimeHunter (talk) 22:35, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

OK. I zoomed it and it looks the same. But at scale seemed different. No biggie. We're done.

Deletion

This is Robert Swetz and I have login with user name swetz777 I previously submitted some information on my new novel DARK SIDE OF DAVID All of the information that I submitted was my own and it has been deleted twice now! If there is something that I can change in order to keep this information on Wikipedia please help me. If for any reason my subject matter is being deleted because of content and or people do not like my information and or personal opinions, I would suggest Wikipedia be (Very Careful).

A great source of information that Wikipedia creates for readers of the World Wide Web could also be talked about, blogged about, etc in a very (Negative) way.

Robert Swetz - Author of the novel Dark Side of David — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swetz777 (talk • contribs) 23:02, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Robert, no one is trying to bring you down, man. But Wiki just doesn't think it is important enough. You need to wait until it gets significant press coverage (e.g. New York Times). Go ahead and publicize it on youtube and the like...but Wiki only has encyclopedia topics on things that are "notable". There's more stuff than in Britannica, but the philosophy is still the same. Also, probably better not to create articles like that yourself (that tout you or your work). If it really gets notable, than someone will make an article out of it.TCO (talk) 23:19, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

OK...I just read the speedies. It's not a copyright vio if you verify who you are. But it is going to get deleted regardless for the reason above. Nothing harsh meant...it's just not notable.TCO (talk) 23:23, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Veiled threats to say and write disparaging things about Wikipedia if it does not promote your new novel really won't help either. - Karenjc 23:40, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey there Mr. Swetz! I'm sorry to hear that you've had a bad time writing on Wikipedia, we certainly don't try to be unfriendly. From what I understand, your article on your upcoming book has been deleted. To resolve this in the future, make sure it's not promotional in any way. The best way to do this is to have it go through the Articles for Creation process, where an experienced editor will review it before it's moved to articlespace. This way, instead of deletion, it'll stay so you can improve it until it's accepted. Also, you need to make sure the book is notable, for a simpler version see WP:42.

I'd also like to refer you to the live help channel #wikipedia-en-help ^connect where you can come get help in realtime from a variety of editors. Using that is totally up to you, and you're more than welcome to continue here instead, but just be aware there is a live-help as an option.

Hope this helps, Charmlet (talk) 23:46, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

• I must disagree with Charmlet's suggestion about how to resolve in the future. I will say very firmly: kindly have the decency to wait until someone with no COI thinks your book is notable and writes about it here. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 23:52, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
  • As RHaworth has access to the deleted articles, I'd strongly take his suggestion over mine. Also, as mentioned before, making veiled threats of "suggest Wikipedia be (Very Careful)" aren't going to get you anywhere, except potentially blocked from editing, if anything. Charmlet (talk) 23:58, 9 June 2013 (UTC)
    • To elaborate on Charmlet's point: do not make legal threats. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 04:05, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
      • He didn't make a legal threat. He threatened to disparage Wikipedia in a blog unless we tout his book. Maproom (talk) 06:34, 10 June 2013 (UTC)