Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 June 1

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June 1

Copying URL for citation.

Can I copy and paste URL address for citing in my Wikipedia article, or will I have to type it? Andracula Insta (talk) 06:26, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi Andracula Insta. You can find out some general information about adding citations to articles at Help:Referencing for beginners, but you should be able to copy-and-paste a url into a citation without out any problems. Just click on the "Show preview" button to make sure the link is working correctly. When it comes to citations, errors are usually indicated in red and these can be almost always be seen in the preview window using "Show preview" or in the "Refrences" section after clicking "Publish changes". -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:45, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

A bare url reference is at least a reference. It is easy enough to use {{cite web}}, the bare information needed is {{cite web |url= |title= |publisher= |access-date= }}. Other parameters should be added if appropriate. Mjroots (talk) 11:45, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

Jono Macbeth

Hello, I am the Jono Macbeth that is listed in this page. I would like to remove this page, at it keeps on getting changed (not by me) and I am not happy with the un true information that is being posted

Cheers Jono Damian Richmond (talk) 10:51, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

 Courtesy link: Jono Macbeth

@Damian Richmond, I have reverted your changes to the article, as you added a whole bunch of unsourced information to a biography of a living person, which is not acceptable. Since you claim to be Jono Macbeth, please review WP:COI and make edit requests on the talk page. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:09, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Damian. There are various procedures for calling for an article to be deleted, but they are all based on Wikipedia's policies, not just because somebody doesn't like it (even the subject).

At the moment, the article has no independent sources, and therefore cannot establish that Macbeth meets Wikipedia's criteria for notability. If suitable independent sources do not in fact exist, then Macbeth does not meet those criteria, and the article should be deleted; but it may be that sufficient sources do exist, and in that case the article should not be deleted.

Please discuss this on the article's talk page. ColinFine (talk) 15:03, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Referencing errors on Automatic lubrication system

Reference help requested. Hello Wikipedia users, unfortunately I don't know how to resolve the "bare URL and missing title" error. Could you help fixing this? Thanks, 80.123.151.230 (talk) 11:10, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done For future reference you can find help on this by going to template:cite web. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:08, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

How to cite and arrange citations for movies and videogame content?

Movies and videogames make up a substantial part of modern culture, but i am struggling to find guidelines on how to cite their content in Wikipedia (e.g. these things were written, said and done verbatim)

How should one go about this? Is there already a guideline? Bart Terpstra (talk) 12:13, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Try {{Cite AV media}} for movides, and/or the other similar Citation Style 1 templates, eg {{Cite podcast}}. (There does not seem to be one for video games (yet). Mitch Ames (talk) 13:13, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

how do i propose one for videogames?

I understand they are more ephemeral as the majority of content is purely digital, however, there is a plethora of material that could be referenced to show certain things are in fact present with in the work. Bart Terpstra (talk) 13:17, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Umm, {{cite video game}}?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:37, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

i swear i used two search engines, searched helpdesk, teahouse and wikipedia but did not get that as a result. thank you. Bart Terpstra (talk) 13:41, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Citing, in Wikipedia parlance, means giving a reference to a given source to justify the truth of a given assertion. Movies and videogames are rarely cited in Wikipedia, because they are WP:PRIMARY sources. (The same goes for a radio broadcast, or a journal article, or the transcription of a speech on the agora, or an Egyptian funeral stele; modern or old has nothing to do with it.)

Maybe you meant quoting, i.e. putting an excerpt of a source to discuss the source itself, where the quotation is taken as a representative sample of an aspect of the source (rather than as a source of true information about the external world). In that case, the default rules for text quotes apply - use them sparingly and with appropriate context - but in addition, significant copyright concerns apply (see WP:NFC). Tigraan^{Click here for my talk page ("private" contact)} 13:16, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

a specific example: "in popular culture", you want to assert that a videogame contains the subject of the article, how can you proof it in a way that satisfies wikipedia?

assuming there are no games journalist articles that mention it, ofcourse. Bart Terpstra (talk) 13:19, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Please don't. Such mentions amount to trivia and do nothing more than clutter what might be a good article. If such mentions are important and the video game is notable (has an en.wiki article), then the mention could be made in the game's article.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:37, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

the videogame is more notable than the subject in the example i'm thinking of (or so it seems to me). Bart Terpstra (talk) 13:40, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Nothing should be included in an 'in popular culture' section of an article unless it can be cited to a secondary source explicitly demonstrating that the specific popular culture reference is of significance to the article subject: see WP:POPCULTURE. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:53, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Another Cite AV question

Hi folks!! It is possible to use the sfn tag with a cite AV template when citing a audio visual references. Perhaps using the "loc" property? scope_creep^Talk 15:00, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes. Maybe. For a better answer, provide a real life example of the problem you are facing.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:17, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: I'll post as how I would use it at the Sarah Goldberg (spy) article and see what you think. scope_creep^Talk 15:22, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Trappist the monk: Ref 4 has been updated with a audio visual citation in the bib section with sfn tag with loc=1:32. It doesn't say its a time field, but it does link the bib entry. Does that look ok? Its been update. scope_creep^Talk 15:39, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Why bother? If the source is only used once in the article, why add the complication of {{sfn}} and §Bibliography? You can specify a time in the {{cite av media}} template with |time= or |minutes=; have you tried that? Do not use |format= for any other purpose than to identify the electronic file format of the source (|format=PDF, |format=XLS, etc). The source is behind some sort of registration/subscription barrier so |url-access=subscription or |url-access=registration is appropriate. If this source is truly an interview, consider {{cite interview}}.

Also, is Sarah G. in the video the Sarah Goldberg of the article. If so, this raises questions. en.wiki doesn't care what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves; en.wiki cares what unconnected, unrelated sources have to say about the subject. That suggests that this video source might be suitable for a further reading or external links section but likely it shouldn't be used to support statements in the article body.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:56, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes. It is completly WP:PRIMARY, no doubt about that. The article contents will be well referenced though with secondary sourcing. There is 13 references on the fr wikipedia and there is more in the Perrault, Kesaris and Bourgeois books for the Red Orchestra stuff, as well as the Belgian Dictionary of National Biography. I'm think i'm going to take that bib section out and just use it for the odd bit of clarification and put it in further reading section. I've not seen the {{cite interview}} but I think probably ideal. scope_creep^Talk 18:36, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Greenwashing of oil industry pollution by President of Cop 28 in Wikipedia

Article in the Guardian, Tues May 30, 2023. “Cop28 president’s team accused of Wikipedia ‘greenwashing’. I have given donations to Wikipedia in the past believing it to be a somewhat reliable source of FACTS. IT IS CLEAR THAT SULTAN AL JABER, HAS BEEN ALLOWED TO POST GIBBERISH ABOUT HOW INNOCENT BURNING OF FOSSIL OF FUELS IS. THIS IS A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH OF OUR PLANET. SURELY YOU CAN HAVE EDITORS WHO CAN VET SUCH DANGEROUS MISINFORMATION. I will be withholding any future donations, not that I have given huge amounts, and certainly I don’t have the disgusting wealth of the oil kings. Ialesich (talk) 15:01, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello. I hear that you are angry that (according to the Guardian report) somebody has been organising biased editing of a Wikipedia article about a sensitive topic in which they are involved.

Unfortunately, this sort of thing can happen in an open collaborative system like Wikipedia. It is built on a communitarian ideal that anybody can contribute: only if somebody's contributions are shown to be unhelpful (or worse) are people prevented from editing.

I don't know what you think should be done; but I don't understand why you think that making an angry exit will help anything. Wikipedia is entirely created and run by volunteers who choose to give their time and energy to creating this public resource. If that is something you want to support (as it presumably is if you have been donating), please come and join us in making it work. If you want to see Al Jaber's alleged interference undone, please come and keep a watch on the articles in question, and join the people who are working to undo inappropriate edits, and to take action against those who make them.

As for your financial contributions: nobody editing Wikipedia has any knowledge of who donates, when or how much, and nobody editing gets any benefit from donations. It is entirely your choice whether and how much you donate. But trying to make a political statement by ceasing to donate will fall flat and achieve nothing. ColinFine (talk) 15:17, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Confirming an account

How do you get your account confirmed? Balfour Idoof Bartholomew (talk) 15:14, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

If you mean autoconfirmed, @Balfour Idoof Bartholomew, that happens after 4 days and ten edits. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:26, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

New Wiki Page

Hello, how do we add a new Wikipedia page for a company? 66.183.69.148 (talk) 15:34, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Put simply, you probably don't. The company needs to meet the notability guideline and should not be edited by someone with a conflict of interest. See your first article.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:39, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello. It sounds as if you have a (very common) complete misunderstanding of what Wikipedia is. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not social media or a business directory. If Wikipedia ever has an article about your company, it will not belong to you, will not be controlled by you, and will be based what publications unconnected with you have said about your company, not on what you say or want to say.

You are strongly discouraged from trying to create an article about your company.

A word of caution: if anybody approaches you offering to create an article for money, beware. They are probably scam merchants. If you are lucky enough to encounter an honest one, they will tell you roughly what I have said above: they cannot guarantee that they will get an article about you accepted, or that if accepted it will say what you want it to say. ColinFine (talk) 16:01, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Short descriptions

Is it just me, or have all the short descriptions on the desktop site been replaced by 'From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia'? The short descriptions still appear in the app; neither appears on the mobile site. (Note: I'm using Chrome on Linux for desktop, Android for mobile) -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 15:37, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@Verbarson: They are not displayed by default in the desktop version. Have you enabled "Shortdesc helper" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets? PrimeHunter (talk) 17:02, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter: It was disabled when I started this topic. Perhaps I've just been using the app more recently, and got used to seeing the shortdesc every time. It does strike me that 'From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia' seems an unnecessary comment at that place, but perhaps it is meant for copy/paste, screenshots, and third-party sites feeding off Wikipedia?

I have now enabled the shortdesc helper, so I can see it on each page. Thanks for the pointer. -- Verbarson  ^talk_edits 17:37, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Ay Ay Ay (song)

Good evening, why in the text the name of the song is "¡Ay, ay, ay!", while in the title is "Ay Ay Ay"? The name of the song must be consistent with the entire article. JackkBrown (talk) 19:31, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

As it says in the article, the spelling "Ay-Ay-Ay" (although incorrect) occurs commonly in English sources. Our article titles use the most common name for the subject in English; but the article itself lists the proper name of the song, which is of course in Spanish. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:48, 1 June 2023 (UTC) (El Gordo Naranjado)

Notable Alumni

As I read your post I have trouble understanding why my name is not included in notable alumni! I was the first athlete to receive a full athletic scholarship to Syracuse for football. I was drafted by the St Louis football Cardinals 1967. Was with the team for 2 years. Injury ended career!can someone tell me why I don’t even have a mention? <redacted> Would appreciate a reply 2601:87:4480:58B0:D96C:1FF5:A7B7:F043 (talk) 20:31, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

IP editor, it's a bad idea to post personal contact information like that in such a public forum - it has been removed. A list of notable alumni should, by definition, only include alumni who are notable by Wikipedia's standards. How much coverage of your career has been published in independent, reliable, secondary sources (newspapers, magazines, etc.)? If there's enough to base an article on, and such an article was written, your name could then be added to the list. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:40, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Please note that "notable" doesn't mean quite the same in Wikipedia as it does out in the world. It means that there is enough independent writing about the subject to base an article on. It is possible to be famous, popular, historically important, or influential without this happening; and conversely, many notable subjects are not particularly well-known.

I have no idea whether or not you are notable in Wikipedia's sense: you may be, in which case somebody could write an article on you (preferably not you), or you may not, in which case nobody can write an article about you. ColinFine (talk) 21:30, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Please see WP:ALUMNI for our official policy. Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:51, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

WP:ALUMNI is not official policy; it's just one section of an essay on editing articles about schools and represents general guidance on the matter. What matters more is whether any WP:CSC were established for that particular section and the best place to search for that would be on the talk of the article where the IP tried to add their name. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:07, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

If this person played pro football for two seasons, there should probably be an article about them already. If they never actually played, but were part of the practice squad/reserve pool (or whatever American football calls it), they might not meet our criteria for notability. --Orange Mike | Talk 23:42, 2 June 2023 (UTC)