Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2006 November 16

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November 16

Installing MSN/WLM on a thumb drive?

How do I install MSN Messenger 7.5 and/or Windows Live Messenger 8 on a thumb drive? I want to use it at a friend's house where they block installation but allow it to connect.

I doubt you can install the one application on a thumb drive, since MSN requires .NET framework and all that rubbish it is probably too integrated into windows to run off a separate drive. You could install windows onto the thumbdrive, provided it's big enough and you can boot your friend's PC off USB.. Besides, if your friend doesn't allow installation on his machine, you'd be a good friend by not trying to find loopholes in his rules ;). Vespine 06:03, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The host machine likely has .net already on it. Are you able to set an installation path for msn? You could just point it to the drive.

Also you could try using http://www.easymessage.net. I have not used this myself and i know nothing about it so user beware. However, it is small so it won't take up much precious space on a thumb drive, and it is a standalone app so it should run off any portable device.

Alternatively you can try portable GAIM from http://portableapps.com/suite. Gaim is a multiple protocol messenger application meaning you can use it to connect to AIM, MSN, and Yahoo.

If none of these work, did you try http://webmessenger.msn.com ? --sish 06:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

You're confusing the .NET online services with the .NET framework; MSN Messenger and Windows Live Messenger do not depend on the .NET Framework, only the .NET services, which is confusing. MSN Messenger and Windows Live Messenger are probably impossible to install on a thumb drive. since it's integrated with Windows. --wj32 ^{talk | contribs} 06:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Wj32, are you speaking to me? I am not confused. I did not know if WLM used the .net framework, but I was saying that if it did it would not be an issue as it is a requirement on most windows machines. Regardless, you are correct in saying that it is very integrated with windows. If run from the thumbdrive it crashes with a kernel32.dll error when trying to log in. --Sish 07:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I meant that Microsoft naming the framework and the service both with .NET is confusing to people. I didn't say you were confused. Thanks for explaining what you meant. --wj32 ^{talk | contribs} 08:30, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah the .NET mix up was my mistake. Bloody Microsoft! ;) Anyway, I go with the above, MSN is pretty innocuous and I would talk to my friend about why he doesn't want it and try to talk him into it before trying to circumnavigate his PC policy. Vespine 21:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe your friend doesn't like IMs. Splintercellguy 22:13, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Was the thumb drive invented in Singapore?

Is it true that the thumb drive was invented in Singapore? If so, by which company and when?

Why don't they have Wikipedia articles?

See USB flash drive. -THB 05:48, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The article is fishy. It claims some guy in Israel invented it, but then links to an article claiming it was invented in Singapore. Which is correct? --Kainaw ^(talk) 19:23, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

A Singaporean company holds the patent for the thumb drive in several countries but the linked article about the successful patent award does not specifically say who invented it or where. -THB 00:12, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

R licence question

R (programming language) is distributed under the GPL Version 2, June 1991. If I develop an application that (among various other things) writes R scripts, in order to use R as a graphing engine, do I have to distribute this application as open source, under the GPL 2.0, or can I distribute it commercially under a different licence? --N·Blue ^talk 08:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The GNU GPL requires that programs based on the source code of another program that is GPLed must be also licensed under the GNU GPL. It does not say the output (in your case, the program) must be licensed under the GNU GPL. In short, your program can be distributed commercially. --wj32 ^{talk | contribs} 08:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

See [1], especially the section on "Combining work with code released under the GPL". There may be situations where your program will (according to the FSF) become covered by the GPL, such as linking with GPL'd libraries (calling runtime functions may be harmful) or subclassing GPL'd classes. As far as I know FSF's assertions on this subject have not been tested in court. Consider consulting a lawyer, or getting a programming language that has no such worries. Weregerbil 10:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Languages are not distributed (how would you distribute German?); compilers and interpreters and libraries are distributed. Similarly, languages are not licensed. As such, merely writing an R script can have no impact on anything; it's just text that you output. (An exception would be if there were trademark considerations in your output or so, but typically interoperability has trumped trademark law. See the Sega case.) The trick is actually if/when you run an R interpreter or so; consult both the FSF and a lawyer, as the details of how you invoke R programs, how your program would behave in the absense of R support, and how closely your program works with the graphing code may affect the issue. --Tardis 16:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

• Let's see if I get this right... The graphics is an important component of the application that I am considering writing. If the program writes the R code, and R is started separately to produce the pdf's, it would be OK. However, if the program calls R in batch mode via a system call, it would be a violation of the GPL. Is this a correct interpretation? --N·Blue ^talk 16:54, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

If your program never interacts with any other programs (e.g., R interpreters), it's irrelevant what you produce. If you do interact with an R program (via system() or otherwise), you may count as associated. That's when you have to talk to someone in a legal capacity and/or discuss it with the FSF (although I'm sure they'd be none too happy to hear you were trying to avoid writing free software). --Tardis 17:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Actually, I'm not trying to avoid writing free software, but I may not be in a position to make the decision myself. Furthermore, the application in question would need to interact more or less tightly with closed-source commercial software, so if we were to release it under the GPL, the same kind of considerations would apply to that interaction. --N·Blue ^talk 10:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Confusion:

So far, I came to understand that Management Information System is about the Management of data/informaion and not about computerization. If it is true then why i see the computer being more focused subject in MIS?

Also, please clearify what are the basic differences in Management Information system, Decision Support System, Relational Database Management System and Information Technology Management?--203.78.175.219 09:37, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

This is some pretty esoteric stuff here! I don't know how deep people will be bothered to go with such a broad and general question. The top of this page says be specific and do your own research. Have you tried Management Information System, Decision Support System, Relational Database Management System, Information Technology Management?? I mean, the very definitions of the terms should be enough to clarify the basic differences, I don't see where you could be having a problem differentiating, in the above order they are: a discipline for applying IT infrastructure to create solutions for business; a computer or knowledge based system to support a decision making process; a system to manage a relational database, and ITM redirects to MIS suggesting they mean the same thing. Vespine 21:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Laptop keypad/keyboard

Hi. I have a Dell Inspiron 6000, and I estimate roughly half of its weight is tiny crumbs that have gotten in between keys. The screws on the bottom of the laptop are the most IMPOSSIBLE I've ever encountered, and I can't get the "lid" off. Is there a way I can pop the keypads out without breaking them? Thank you most kindlieliest. :) 81.93.102.185 11:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

this is what you're looking for. —Mitaphane _talk 15:06, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

can different windows xp users have software available only to them?

Hi. I'm just about to upgrade to windows xp. If I wanted to set up a user account for my kids, can I install some internet safety software (for adult sites etc) which is only active for that user? ie, when I'm on it, there are no restrictions or the program is not running at all?

thanks

Spiggy

It highly depends on the software being installed. Some software installs itself as a plugin to an existing program (eg a web browser), some runs at startup, some needs to be run manually... I suggest you read up on how your internet monitoring software works, most software of this type runs all the time, but there may be a setting in the software itself to run it only for particular users. Also, it will most likely have an "override" feature (by means of a password), which you will be able to use when you are surfing online. — QuantumEleven 13:52, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

one way satellite

can you please send me some information on one way satellite providers! thanks

PAUL QUINN —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paulq182 (talk • contribs) 16:34, November 16, 2006 (UTC).

Could you be more specific, please - what do you mean by "one way satellite provider", and in what country are you? — QuantumEleven 15:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

IRC drops out

(moved from Misc. Desk) -THB 15:40, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

My IRC client keeps dropping out, and so do similar things like gaim. It only tends to happen late at night, which is my ISP's offpeak period (downloads are not counted towards limits during this period, so my only guess is that heaps of traffic is being used). How can I keep mIRC and gaim connected? It's a huge pain and happens within 2 minutes of joining. Thanks.

You would probably get a better response to this over at the computing reference desk. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Cannot Copy X - The file parameter is incorrect.

I bought a new laptop recently and was wanting to add songs to my mobile phone, via the memory card. I plugged the memory card into my biuilt in memory card reader and had no trouble moving files frmo the card to the computer, but when I wanted to do the opposite i got the above error.

Any suggestions?

I have tried changing the file name. Hmm

I am bored of Supermassive Black Hole as my ringtone!!

chris

What's the name of the file you're trying to copy? I'm guessing that the file name on the memory card is incompatible with the windows file system. —Mitaphane _talk 22:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

What is the closest Linux_distribution with windows xp ??

What is the closest Linux_distribution with windows xp ??

Closest in what respect? --Kiltman67 22:15, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Linux is not Windows. Any Linux distro will run x windows which will give you a GUI, which is windows like, but the two are different on very fundamental levels in the way they operate. Are you thinking of installing Linux on a PC? Vespine 23:12, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

There are a few distrobutions which are dedicated to making Linux act like Windows, but don't expect huge similarities because each system's architecture is drastically different. Off the top of my head I remember Linspire, which appears to be the most popular Windows clone. It all depends on what you use your machine for, but if you want to migrate to Linux you can find it is quite easy to use a distrobution which doesn't specialise in Windows converts, such as SuSE or Ubuntu. RevenDS 23:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

That being said, SuSE has a reputation for being an easy transition from windows --froth^{T C} 00:29, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

It can be argued forever... Linspire was originally designed with Windows users in mind. It was called Lindows for a while. There is also a way to make any Linux look almost exactly like Windows XP XPDE. But, as was stated above, Linux is not Windows.--Russoc4 00:40, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

If you are interested in a Linux distribution, I would say Linspire,Freespire or PCLinuxOS (although Linspire and PCLinuxOS are not free, in both sense of the word.) If you are interested in an operating system that can run Windows programs, Reactos may be right for you. (Although it is still not mature.) --inky 01:05, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I would also think about Linux XP, which was also created with users of Windows XP in mind. It is capable of running Windows programs. If you just want to try Linux, I would recommend Knoppix, a bootable DVD that you do not need to install. Freedom to share 16:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

program display changes

The options screen in IE 7 is the same as in IE 6 which leads me to beleive that IE 7 may have some security enhancements but somebodies kid or an ignorant hack was allowed to make the other display changes. What was wrong with the drop down menue system? Everything was there ready to be found in an orderly and logical way unlike the rediculas and time consuming display of IE 7. Does IE 7 really offer any real security or other advantages that could not be incorporated into IE 6 or provide the option of using the IE 6 display layout that would make putting up with the time wasted searching for ways to execute common functions worth while? Hope Vista does not have this change-it-for-no-good-reason-except-to-say-I-was-here kind of problem. 71.100.6.152 23:14, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

There might come a time when you can skin Internet Explorer 7 to make it look like Internet Explorer 6... But otherwise, I work well with Mozilla Firefox, ZoneAlarm and a brain telling me not to click links that look like "CLICK HERE!!!!!!!!!!! FREE GIFT!!!!!!!!!". For most security purposes using Internet Explorer 6, disable enable ZoneAlarm, install anti-virus and anti-spyware software (update regularly) and don't click suspicious links. x42bn6 Talk 23:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I just downloaded the free anti-spy, anti-virus program written for Verizon/Yahoo bu Computer Associates which has already found a bunch of stuff. Why do you recommend to disable Zonealarm in IE 6? Its the links in spam that worry me the most but if even the close button looks tampered with I just run task manager and end task for the whole page instead of clicking anything on the page. If all IE 7 has to offer is a thousand times worse skin than IE 6 and anti-spy and anti-virus stuff then I'll stay with IE 6 and use the Verizon/Yahoo stuff. Still hope Vista doesn't represent the same. 71.100.6.152 00:15, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, I mean "enable ZoneAlarm". x42bn6 Talk 20:23, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I've found this type of thing is quite common, where there are no actual improvements in a new software version, just "change for change's sake". I liken it to what happened with digital watches. Once they told the time and date, there wasn't much else to do with them except for adding silly stuff. Thus, we got watch calculators, watches that would play video games, etc. StuRat 01:01, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

It should be a lesson for all of us to learn: not to entrust anyone (especially our kids) with the power to change anything intended to serve the great majority which they consider themselves to be. Edsel rings a bell. 71.100.6.152 11:14, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Cars are another good example. Manufacturers come out with a new model each year, but rarely is there a substantial improvement (and many times, the new model is far worse). Mostly, it's just change for change's sake. StuRat 00:54, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

simple question about "bash"

I have a Mac OS X. I am just trying to figure out how to run a command-line program with a full path in bash. The path is "#!/usr/local/bin/php". If I paste that into bash I just get "-bash: !/usr/local/bin/php: event not found". I have tried some variations on that, none seem to work. (and yes, the directory does exist and have the program in it — I can run it if I "cd" over to it) I would rather execute it as one line of the interpreter for my purposes, but clearly I don't understand enough about how bash works to make this rather simple thing work! help?

That #! at the start of a script is a magic thing that tells bash that the file you gave it is a script, and that it should use the interpreter at /usr/local/bin/php. That interpreter in this case is the PHP interpreter, which can be manually run by simply typing /usr/local/bin/php If, however, you want to run the script, just type ./thescriptsname Note that the first line of the script tell bash to load the php interpreter to run the script, and all the following lines are instructions written in PHP, not in bash's own scripting language. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:54, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The #!, on the first line of a file, is a shebang, which is a token that tells the operating system that the file containing it should be interpreted by the program named after the shebang. In other words, the path is just /usr/local/bin/php, without the first two characters. (This all has nothing to do with bash.) Given that /usr/local/bin is a relatively standard place to store programs, I'd be surprised if you couldn't run it with just $ php as a command (where the $ is your prompt). However, I get the feeling that this isn't what you want. If you have a file that begins with that string, what you want to do is run that file as if it were a program itself; the whole point of the shebang is to understand that "running the file" should be interpreted as "running PHP (or whatever) on the file". So try just typing the name of the file in which you found that; remember that if it's in the current directory you'll probably need to type $ ./filename for the command, not just $ filename, and that the file (despite merely being a script) must be executable; you may need to run $ chmod u+x filename first. Does that help? --Tardis 00:05, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Both of these comments help immensely, now I see how I was going wrong. Thanks! --24.147.86.187 00:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

The "Event not found" error is caused by bash thinking you are trying to repeat a command from the command line history (for example, I use !snes9x to repeat the last command line I used to invoke snes9x, because I'm too lazy to make a script that would contain the parameters :). –Mysid☎ 13:00, 17 November 2006 (UTC)