Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals/Archive9

Proposals, September 2005

SAsia-stub

Even if we went ahead and rounded this out with Nepal-stub and Bhutan-stub, there are enough pre-1947 partition stubs in just the history and writer stubs to make this a worthy category. Caerwine 16:10, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Just created this. An inital exploration of {{Asia-geo-stub}} added over 20 stubs, mostly, but not entirely Bhutanese as that's the only country in the region that doesn't have it's own stub. I also reset the names of the categories in the Asia stubs for Bangladesh and Sri Lanka to the -related versions. It's all well and good to plan to move over to the other, but it hasn't been done, so it makes it look like the sub types are empty when they aren't. (Left the cats themselves alone, just took their names off the list.) Caerwine 02:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Just make sure you leave them with the geo-stub tag too (it's how we work out whn to break out a new geo-stub category, and Bhutan's slowly progressing towards this Hell's bells - I just realised who I'm talking to. You know all that. There should also have been a lot of Sri Lankan ones in there, as it doesn't have its own geo-stub either. Grutness...wha? 05:00, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Gah. Skip that - there's already a {{SL-stub}}, of course. Perhaps I need to take a break! Grutness...wha? 05:18, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Yup and {{SL-stub}} is on my to do list of things to take to SfD since besides Sri Lanka, there is also a Sierra Leone. However, I already have too much stub stuff on my plate to want to do anything about it at the moment. Caerwine 21:32, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

{{language-bio-stub}}

I believe a stub category for linguicists and people notable for documenting, exploring, etc specific languages or language in general would be useful.--Carabinieri 07:09, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Not certain about numbers, but if there were enough then {{linguist-stub}} would be a better name. Grutness...wha? 08:34, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Agree with linguist-stub, add other as redirect if it's useful for restubbing. Alai 05:59, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

The problem with linguist-stub is that a lot of the people I have in mind aren't/weren't linguists in the scientific/academic sense, but are just notable for having been the first to document or write a comprehensive dictionary for a certain language. These were often missionaries or explorers.--Carabinieri 12:30, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I think "linguist" can be defined broadly enough to include any missionaries or explorers who were the first to document or write a comprehensive dictionary for a certain language. I'm for {{linguist-stub}}. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 21:56, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

{{Belgium-bio-stub}}

I googled site:en.wikipedia.org "this biographical article is a stub" Belgium OR Belgian and got 64 hits; of the first 10, 8 would fit into this category; assuming this trend is continued through the rest of the hits we're looking at approximately 50-55 stubs in this category. I guess it's safe to assume that there are some stubs, which google did not find, since those words don't occur in the article for some reason, so there could even be more stubs in the category. The template already exists, but there is no category; and I'm assuming that whoever created the template did not propose it here first.--Carabinieri

IIRC it wasn't, but it came up on the discoveries page and seemed like a good category. I don't remember abyone mentioning that the category didn't exist though. Go for it, I'd say! Grutness...wha? 08:11, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Alai 05:59, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

The template already exists, there seem to be no objections, this fits in nicely... I suggest we speedy this one. Aecis 17:03, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Athletics Stub

Evening, can we have an Athletics stub so the 1500m, 100m hurdles, 200m hurdles, 400m hurdles, 800m hurdles and any other newly created articles that come under the heading of "athletics" (there are hundreds) can have it's stub. Cokehabit 15:05, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

At first wink, I approve: there's over the "magic" 800 in {{sports-stub}}, and athletics must be one of the more significant "unsplit" sub-cats. On the other hand... hundreds? I'm dubious there's that many, do you have a rough count? Of existing articles, that is, not counting the "bios". And secondly, in the US the terminology would be "track and field", so if we go ahead with the name as suggested, doubtless a Commonwealth English putsch will be called on us later. (Though that does seem to be the terminology used in the permanent category, so what the heck.) Alai 16:40, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

This looks like a very good idea, and I'd wager that there are three figures' worth of stubs (though "hundreds" migh be a bit of hyperbole). As Alai has pointed out, though, there are different meanings of the term "Athlete" in different parts of the world. It'll be necessary to state on both template and category that it's for Track & Field athletics. {{athletics-stub}} is still a viable name if the template is worded properly, but perhaps Category:Track and field athletics stubs will be needed for the category. Grutness...wha? 02:09, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Done. Grutness...wha? 12:58, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Writer Stubs

After going through much of the 9 pages of writer stubs, I think that there are justifiable numbers to create {{Roman-writer-stub}} and {{Greek-writer-stub}} (or perhaps just {{Ancient-writer-stub}}, as well as {{SAmer-writer-stub}} or something similar for all the Colombian, Chilean, Argentinian, Brazilian, etc. writers.

• I just realized there's no Ancient Roman stub category for anything else. Scratch just the writer stub, let's have {{roman-bio-stub}}, to cover generals and orators and senators and such. (written by User:Bonsai Viking)
  • If you look a bit further up this page at WP:WSS/P#Historical_regions.2Fcountries_bio_stubs_.7B.7BAncient-Rome-bio-stub.7D.7D, you'll see this one's in process at the moment! Ancient-writer-stub's not a bad idea, mind you, though it's likely to be a problem for two reasons: foirstly it could take everyone from China to Africa and beyond, and second I suspect that it will overlap considerably with philosopher-stub. Grutness...wha? 08:22, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
• There is a {{Roman-stub}} and a {{Ancient-Greece-stub}} in the history section, neither of which are overly large at the moment. The writer stubs are in the process of being recatted into the 9 new sub categories created just yesterday. If it keeps at this pace, I think writer stubs will no longer be a very large category very soon (it's already down to 8 pages). So I don't see the need to avoid double stubbing by adding a new stub cat for them just yet.

I've been keeping a reasonably careful count, and by that count there are not yet 50 South American writer stubs, though I may encounter some more as I go through the new blue links I've been finding while restubbing the writer stubs. Caerwine 09:59, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

• I suggest SAm-writer-stub instead of SAmer-writer-stub? Aecis 17:08, 20 September 2005 (UTC)
  • The equivalent geo-stub and bio-stub both use SouthAm, so I'd suggest SouthAm-writer-stub. Grutness...wha? 01:45, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
• By my count there are 49 stubs currently in Category:Writer stubs that could go into a Category:South American writer stub. However, writer stubs are now under 600, so I don't see the need to be aggresive in category creation right now, particularly when all this would do would be substitute one pair of double stubs with another. Writer stubs can afford to wait for additional sub-catting until they start to exceed the <800 bin again. Caerwine 01:55, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

{{child-lit-stub}}

While doing the writer subcatting I would try to add an appropriate genre cat, if a writer concentrated in particular genre. There was one category in particular that I repeatedly wanted and wasn't available, and that was for children's literature. Should also help to slim down {{lit-stub}} which is overly large. Caerwine 02:05, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, having heard no objections, I went ahead and created this one. Caerwine 03:56, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

{{Australia-struct-stub}} and {{India-struct-stub}}

A little light on the ground in each case, but by far the biggest single countries not to have separate categories in Category:Buildings and structures stubs, with close to 50 stubs each. There seem to be quite a few more marked just with {{Australia-stub}} and {{India-stub}}, too. If that's not enough, making an overall {{Oceania-struct-stub}} might be an option, since that well over 50 (there are about a dozen struct-stubs from New Zealand and the Pacific islands to add to the Aussie ones). Grutness...wha? 09:56, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

No and Yes Neither {{Australia-stub}} nor {{struct-stub}} are so large as to warrant forcing the issue before there are actually 60 known stubs. However, with {{India-stub}} at 6 pages presently, I wouldn't mind being aggresive in making an {{India-struct-stub}}. Caerwine 19:32, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Looking through the various city-specific stub tyes for Australia, there may be close to 200 articles that could use Australia-struct-stub. Grutness...wha? 01:48, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

OK - I've made the India one - I'll leave the Aussie one for now, though I still think it would be very useful. Grutness...wha? 11:05, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

{{service-stub}} {{service-corp-stub}}

A brief glance at the {{corp-stub}} listings suggests that a group parallel to {{retail-stub}} but for those companies that sell consumer services instead of consumer goods would be a useful subcategory. Caerwine 20:03, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

It needs a better name than this though - my first thought when I saw Service-stub was "how would that differ from mil-stub?" Service-corp-stub might be better. Grutness...wha? 00:51, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

I'll concede the point, but that suggests we might want to consider renaming {{retail-stub}} to {{retail-corp-stub}} for consistency. Caerwine 00:10, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

good point. It probably should be renamed for consistency. Retail-stub also suggests that it could relate to the actual running of retail businesses, which (AFAIK) it doesn't. Grutness...wha? 00:40, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

{{entertainer-stub}}

Basically a catch-all stub type for people like magicians, circus performers, puppeteers, and ventriloquists who make their living by entertaining, but don't really fit into any of the existing occupation stub types. I've come across several that have been shoehorned into actor as I've been sorting those stubs, and I wouldn't be surprised to see others are ill-placed elsewhere. Caerwine 23:32, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Actor stubs

I've been sorting through the actor stubs and I've gotten about halfway through and assuming current trends hold I think I can safely say the following:

1. There will be more than enough stubs to justify a {{Japan-actor-stub}}.
2. No other country that does not already have a category will have over 50 stubs in {{actor-stub}}, meaning that country based splits alone will still likely leave Category:Actor stubs over the <800 mark.
3. The American actor stubs will be well over 10 pages when I'm through, meaning that a gender split between male actors and actresses would not solve the problem.

To solve the American actors problem, I recommend the following four stub types be created:

1. {{US-film-actor-stub}} American actors notable primarily for their acting in films.
2. {{US-theat-actor-stub}} American actors notable primarily for their acting on stage.
3. {{US-tv-actor-stub}} American actors notable primarily for their acting on television.
4. {{US-voice-actor-stub}} American actors notable primarily for their voice acting.

In addition a {{voice-actor-stub}} to serve as a second parent for {{US-voice-actor-stub}} would also enable voice actors outside the US to be identified. Caerwine 01:37, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

The sub-cats for the USians seems like a sound idea to me. I'm less keen on {{voice-actor-stub}}: I'd rather be a little more proactive in creating "modest-sized" national categories for in the 30-50 size range, or if necessary, some regionalised grouping (with suitable redirects, to make the naming pattern a little more intuitive). Alai 04:21, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

There are quite a number of persons whose only or primary credits are for what they've done as voice actors for animation and/or scripted radio. There are close to 700 articles in Category:Voice actors, a fair proportion of those are stub articles about people who work primarily as voice actors. There's even an internet database for voice actors similar to IMDB called the Voice Chasers Database and we even already have a temple {{voice actor}} to access it in the same manner as {{imdb name}}. The templates {{film-bio-stub}}, {{theat-stub}}, {{tv-bio-stub}}, provide a way to generally indicate actors in the other three fields, but there doesn't really exist one for voice actors, which is why I'm proposing it. Caerwine 01:53, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I would really support the idea of a {{Japan-actor-stub}}. I was looking for one today, so I hope you create this stub. SailorAlphaCentauri 04:22, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

All six stubs are now active. Caerwine 22:58, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Urk. Does one proposal and one objection rise to the level of a consensus? The net effect of this creation and population of {{voice-actor-stub}} seems to be pretty much just as I'd feared: we have a second sub-categorisation of actor-stub that cuts right across the primary one, to wit, a slew of voice-actors with no categorisation by nationality. What was wrong with doing this strictly as a tertiary sub-category, for those national actor subcats that were themselves over-sized (or at least, large enough to be splittable)? Alai 05:35, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Actually, {{voice-actor-stub}} is not the first genre cut. In theory, if not necessarily actual practice, actors that worked only on tv or film are supposed to be in {{tv-bio-stub}} or {{film-bio-stub}} respectively. Also, as I mentioned, there is demonstrable interest on the part of some people that is confined to just voice actors. Finally, national cuts only were insufficient to get actor-stub to the <800 level. Caerwine 19:49, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

{{Short-story-stub}}

As I sort the {{lit-stub}} beast, I notice that most of the works of literature (as opposed to genres, classifications, modes, etc. which belong in lit-stub) that are not currently categorizable are short stories. Many already have page titles of the format Title_(Short_story). Propose {{Short-story-stub}} as a child of {{Lit-stub}} to deal with these. BonsaiViking 15:08, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

How does this proposal intersect with the proposal above for {{child-lit-stub}}?

• This is a split by form -- many other sub-types are by genre (although many of those are under {{book-stub}}, which is more or less by form). In theory all the detail under book-stub could be duplicated under Short-story-stub, or perhaps better things like {{SF-stub}} and {{Fantasy-stub}} could feed into both {{book-stub}} and {{Short-story-stub}}. We do need a way to handle articles about individual short stories. DES ^(talk) 18:28, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
• Wouldn't simply {{story-stub}} be easier? Otherwise there will be arguments over whether something qualifies as a novella. Story-stub could be for anything that doesn't take up a whole book - and could even include things like fables and parables that it might be a stretch to add under the "short story" tag. Grutness...wha? 00:30, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
  • {{story-stub}} per Grutness makes sense to me. Caerwine 20:06, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
    • It would also be nice to include short-story-collections here(only in the category, not the stub-name) Lectonar 11:47, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
• No other arguments, then, I'll create {{Story-stub}} under {{Lit-stub}}, which seems to be the consensus.

More actor stubs

Just finished sorting {{actor-stub}}. Everything indicates that the six stub types I proposed above will all be nicely populated. No further country based spilts meet the 60 stub rule based on the stubs in just actor-stub, but Germany and Ireland both have over 40 and might be able to reach 60 if someone were to sort their national bio stubs looking for them.

If HK, Taiwan, and the Mainland were combined into one cat, it would have 51 Chinese actor stubs, with 38 of those being HK. Since I expect that separating out the Japan and voice actor stubs will bring actor stubs to <800 or below, I don't see the need to rush and create a single cat, but I won't object if someone were to create it instead of waiting for Hong Kong actor stubs to reach 60.

Finally, while I will wait until I have the "hard" numbers to back it up, I suspect that a {{US-porn-actor-stub}} would easily have 36+24+36 stubs. So I think it's worth considering if American actor stubs remains above the <800 level after doing the four cats mentioned above. Caerwine 20:06, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I looked through about half of Ireland-bio-stub, and found a handful, double-stubbing them for now. I'd be inclined to go ahead and create {{Ireland-actor-stub}} in the name of getting the rather large root cat somewhat more down to size. Alai 04:16, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Just finished sorting {{actor-stub}} to use the new categories. It's down below 800, but just barely. The largest group is some 201 stubs for which there is insufficient to subcategorized based on the data in the stub alone. The countries with more than 40 stubs are Germany (52), Hong Kong (40), Ireland (44), and Italy (40). I'll do a looksie through those four countries bio stubs to see if there are any that could be called actors and bring the total over 60 for them. Caerwine 03:25, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Just finished sorting {{Hong-Kong-bio-stub}} and found exactly 20 stubs to add to {{actor-stub}}. That just barely gives Hong Kong the necessary 60. I'll get to the other three tomorrow unless someone else gets there first. Good night! Caerwine 04:31, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Take a look below and you'll see that I found enough stubs to raise German actor stubs to 61. Next up is Ireland in my search. Caerwine 02:13, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Just finished with both Ireland and Italy. In both cases, I wasn't able to raise my totals above 50 stubs, so I definitely won't be supporting the creation of either an Irish ao an Italain actor stub right now. Caerwine 18:34, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

The figure for Hong Kong actors has already reached 60 (ready to create {{HK-actor-stub}}). Hong Kong singers may have reached 60 too. — Instantnood 16:34, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

In support of this one, but as {{HongKong-actor-stub}}, please. See our perennial debate about the use of abbreviations, which pretty generally comes out against them, unless they're actually the common reference for the entity in question. Alai 19:43, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

No worries. HK is a generally accepted abbreviation for Hong Kong. — Instantnood 20:53, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

{{reli-struct-stub}}

There's already a {{church-stub}} (see Discoveries) for Christian churches/religious buildings, but there are well over a hundred stubs on religious buildings for other religions. I've been going thru subcategories of Category:Religious buildings, and Buddhism has 46, Shinto 18, Sikhism 4, and Hinduism 37. An earlier count for Islam found 34. Most are inconsistently marked, too. --Mairi 19:48, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

More counts: Judaism has 12, and Islam now has 43. There are also 6 other ones for assorted religions. (List by religion, for those curious.) --Mairi 22:39, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

{{ws-stub}}, {{conlang-stub}}, {{pc-stub}}

I'd like to reduce the load of {{lang-stub}} by creating stub categories for writing systems, constructed languages, and pidgin and creole languages. The {{ws-stub}} category would also be for articles about individual letters of alphabets and the like. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 21:06, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

{{conlang-stub}} tentatively sounds like a good idea - how many such stubs do you think there are? The other two need more clear names. The stub for writing systems and such definitely sounds good; perhaps just {{writingsystem-stub}}? How many pidgin and creole language stubs are there, as Category:Pidgins and creoles (and subcategories) has just over 100 articles? --Mairi 21:24, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, just looking through the letter A of Category:Language stubs I found 4 that could go into {{conlang-stub}} and 7 that could go into {{pidgin-creole-stub}} (if you like that name better). Extrapolating from that I estimate 70 in conlang and 100 in pidgin-creole. Keep in mind a lot of these stubs are not otherwise categorized. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 22:26, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Those would be big enough then. {{pidgin-creole-stub}} works for me, even tho it's not our standard hyphenation. (Looking at the main categories was a just a quick way for me to guess at the size, without repeating any counting you might've done.) --Mairi 23:15, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

I would be extremely leary of extrapolating from a sample chosen based on the initial letter of the article name. It makes the assumption that all the subtypes will have the same distribution over all letters as the combined group and that is decidedly a wrong assumption when considering splits of sub types by nationality. I don't know if that is a wrong assumption for this case, but it is not wise to assume sampling the A's of any group will give an accurate extrapolation of group. However, a quickie sample of 44 stubs in the language stubs that I just did chosen in a uniform manner to avoid that problem came with 9 that word go into writing systems, 5 into pidgins and 5 into constructed languages. That gives an extrapolation of a little over 80 for both conlangs and pidgins, so while both our efforts no doubt contain error, there's enough to convince me that the proposed groupings have enough stubs to justify creating them if you want to go to the effort. Caerwine 00:45, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

You'll notice I didn't extrapolate by taking the number of stubs in A and multiplying by 26! But I am willing to go the effort, partly because something sticks in my craw about having a stub about a letter of the alphabet called a "language stub". --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 06:57, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Definitely not {{pc-stub}} or {{pc-lang-stub}}: it's not clear from the template titles that it's about pidgin and creole languages. It could just as easily be about personal computing languages, politically correct languages, Proto-Celtic languages, or any other term abbreviated to pc. Aecis 22:40, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

How about {{writingsystem-stub}}, {{constructed-lang-stub}}, and {{pidgincreole-lang-stub}}? Or if the last is too long, {{p&c-lang-stub}} (since other things abbreviated PC can't be "P and C")? --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 15:56, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

I think {{conlang-stub}} would be fine too, as it isn't ambigious and I think it's a fairly common term. I don't care too much for p&c-lang-stub, tho. --Mairi 23:43, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

I've now created {{writingsystem-stub}}. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 15:04, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I've now created and populated {{conlang-stub}} and {{pidgincreole-lang-stub}}. --Angr/_{tɔk tə mi} 10:31, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

African Union stubs

moved to correct place on page Grutness...wha?

I think it's time the african union had there own stubs in the same manner as the European Union. I direct you to the articles Court of African Justice, or Permanant Representitives Committee for examples. Something along the lines of

would be nice. Briaboru 17:30 26 September 2005

Why? How many stubs already in existence are there that would fit here? Considering that {{Africa-stub}} is not overful, I fail to see the need given that a quick glance indicated that few if any of those stubs would relate to the AU. The standard for creation is usually a minimum of 60 existing stubs, Caerwine 03:57, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree - Africa-stub isn't overpopulated, so there's no real need. In any case, AU would be an inappropriate name (it's the ISO code for Australia, and could also easily stand for astronomical units or gold). Grutness...wha? 11:38, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

{{Ethiopia-stub}}

I've been looking through the African stub categories and have found so far 70 stubs that could fit in this category. The majority are biography stubs, but not enough to do a {Ethiopia-bio-stub} according to procedure and {Africa-stub} needs the help far more than {Africa-bio-stub} does at present. Caerwine 23:49, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Ethiopia-stub might be viable on its own - it is fairly unique culturally. other than that, see my compromise suggestion under Sudan-stub, below. Grutness...wha? 06:54, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

{{Missouri-geo-stub}}

I would like to propose a stub for locations in Missouri seperate from the Midwestern stub. There are several stub locations in Missouri. Here is the proposed stub:

Rt66lt 02:12, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

• Several is right. 43 to be precise, as of two weeks ago. There are quite a number of states with far more stubs than that that have yet to be split off (at last count, Missouri was 15th in line of un-split states). When Missouri gets to 75 stubs it will be split off, as is the case with all other states to reach that level. As of now, though, it can hold its place in the queue. Don't worry - US states get checked every two weeks to see which ones have reached the threshold, so it won't be too long after it does before it gets added in. Grutness...wha? 04:17, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
  • It's increased its numbers (I suspect through your handiwork :) - see note below at "October's geo-stub splits". Grutness...wha? 06:50, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Canadian highways

Moved from the Stub type page I noticed a significant amount of Canadian highways in Category:Road stubs. We should create a new stub type.

This Canadian highway related article is a stub. You can help by expanding it.

--69.215.243.239 23:16, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

1. This is not the page for that - take the suggestion to WP:WSS/P
2. What's wrong with the already existing {{Canada-road-stub}}?

Grutness...wha? 04:13, 1 October 2005 (UTC)