Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/STEM/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Add Ephedra (plant)

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The genus is culturally and medically significant, has been used by humans for thousands of years, and is the source of two well-known compounds (ephedrine and pseudoephedrine). Its global distribution, unique morphology, and status as the only extant genus in its order (and one of three in the ancient & unusual clade Gnetophyta) make it botanically noteworthy as well.

The “Plants, fungi, and other organisms” sublist is 267 entries short of its target and I think this would be a valuable entry. The article “Ephedra (medicine)” is related but narrower in scope, so I favor adding the plant. Marchantiophyta (talk) 01:48, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator - User:Marchantiophyta 03:39, 03 December 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:32, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
3. per nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:22, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. The Blue Rider 22:39, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• I wonder if the quota is just too big? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:54, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

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Add Blockchain

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Support

1. As nom-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:35, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 20:40, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Some folks tauted it recently as the new big technology. In either case, major enough to be listed at V5, I agree. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Unfortunately. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Also unfortunately support. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:11, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Media player software

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A bit strange we list VLC Media Player but not the general article for such software.

Support

1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 21:03, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Support swap. I am not fully sure if media player software is vital, in the era of netfilix and streaming. But I am pretty sure VLC is not vital, sorry (saying this as someone who uses it a lot and tells other to do so). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:14, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. I always have 3 or 4 of these installed on my PC.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:01, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add DuckDuckGo

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It’s probably the most well known privacy search engine. Interstellarity (talk) 02:21, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 02:21, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Market share <1%. Cool/cute but trivial. Not sure if it would even make V6. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:54, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Notable but too niche to be long-term vital. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:36, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Per Piotrus. The Blue Rider 10:16, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
4. It's actually surprisingly popular, with about 80 million users (as opposed to Yandex Search's 65 million, fighting with that for the next search engine position). DuckDuckGo is more of a modern phenomenon, but the privacy factor does lend it some extra vitality. Doesn't make it IMO, but maybe in the future it will. J947 ‡ ^edits 00:03, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove lowly-viewed dams

Remove Lomaum Dam

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The single least viewed article in the VA5 Technology section, 8 interwikis, probably not vital.

Support

1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 19:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
2. I'm not seeing evidence that this dam was especially significant when compared to all dams. starship.paint (RUN) 03:08, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
3. 30 pageviews in the last month lol Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
4. How is this vital? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:31, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Fengman Dam

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Third least viewed article in the VA5 Technology section, 7 interwikis, probably not vital. From the article: "A new dam was completed in 2019, and the old dam will be dismantled, except for a small section preserved for historical interest".

Support

1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 19:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
2. I'm not seeing evidence that this dam was especially significant when compared to all dams. starship.paint (RUN) 03:10, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
4. How is this vital? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:31, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Boegoeberg Dam

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14th least viewed article in the VA5 Technology section, 2 interwikis, probably not vital.

Support

1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 19:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
2. I'm not seeing evidence that this dam was especially significant when compared to all dams. starship.paint (RUN) 03:10, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
4. How is this vital? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:31, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Tibi Dam

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16th least viewed article in the VA5 Technology section, 7 interwikis, probably not vital. Article claims "It is one of the oldest non-Roman dams in Europe", but not necessarily the oldest, plus specifying "non-Roman" and "in Europe" veers into "Overly Narrow Superlative" territory.

Support

1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 19:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
2. I'm not seeing evidence that this dam was especially significant when compared to all dams. starship.paint (RUN) 03:10, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
4. How is this vital? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:31, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Sennar Dam

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31st least viewed article in the VA5 Technology section, 11 interwikis, probably not vital. Article says "The Sennar dam is one of the highlights of the state of Sennar" but Sennar only has a population of 1,918,692 as of 2018.

Support

1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 19:11, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
2. I'm not seeing evidence that this dam was especially significant when compared to all dams. starship.paint (RUN) 03:10, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
4. How is this vital? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:31, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove specific websites and other computing services

Now starting review of this subcategory. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Remove Wix.com

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The only company under online utilities I've never heard of. Not in the same level as others listed there (GitHub, Google Maps, Internet Archive, IMDb, Rotten Tomatoes, Urban Dictionary and Wikipedia). Not impressed further by the fact that out of five subsidiaries listed in the infobox, only one is bluelinked (DeviantArt, which we already list under Social network and blogging category - that's enough, no need to list its parent company which is not very well recognized). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. per nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 15:12, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
4. SnowFire (talk) 17:14, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove Tmall

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Least significant company listed under E-commerce (7 articles). Not in the same league as the others there (Airbnb, Alipay, Craigslist, eBay, PayPal, and Uber). Just 20 interwikis and we already list Chinese Alipay (30+ interwikis). Yes, it is a large B2C platform, but vital? Dubious, particularly when compared to the other entries in the same category listed above. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. SnowFire (talk) 17:14, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:11, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove Sohu or swap with Naver

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Chinese Internet company listed under Portals/Platform sites (6 articles), with Baidu, Google (Level 4), MSN, Yahoo!, and Yandex. Jsut start class with 24 interwikis, nothing here suggests vital level of significance in the same league as others listed in that category. Maybe swap with South Korean Naver, whgich has 27 interwikis? Although Naver is vital to South Korean internet but not the world. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Swap per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Swap per nom. Naver is certainly a reasonable VA5, similar to Yandex. SnowFire (talk) 17:14, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Swap. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:12, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove Yahoo! Search

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Google Search and Bing will suffice for Search engines category (it has 3 articles). Why list their failing competitor than next to nobody uses? Just 18 interwikis. It's enough to list Yahoo! portal as we alraedy do. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Although, in fairness, there is a clear reason to list it: historical importance. It's significant in the 1990s / 2000s decade. But eh, only so much room in VA5. SnowFire (talk) 17:14, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
4. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:03, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Support. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:12, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Weak support per SnowFire; don't think search engines are very vital subjects in general. The support this is receiving seems unfounded, however – we would have probably listed this 15 years ago (in my opinion wrongly). J947 ‡ ^edits 00:08, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Home page

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Support

1. Nom.TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:34, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Support. Although it competes with landing page, but I guess regular term > marketing term, even if our page on landing page is a bit better .--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

   I think home page is a more important encyclopedic topic than landing page.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:45, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

3. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:14, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Good suggestion. J947 ‡ ^edits 00:22, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Add Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel and Microsoft PowerPoint

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Although Microsoft Office  5, Spreadsheet  4, and Word processor  4 are all listed, Word and Excel and maybe Powerpoint are all vital.

Support

1. Support MW and ME. Weak Support MPP As nom - TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:45, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Support Excel – feel like this is the one of these that is innovative and set apart from its spreadsheet contenders the most. J947 ‡ ^edits 05:04, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Support Word and Excel, not sure about PowerPoint. --Kammerer55 (talk) 06:58, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Support Microsoft Excel; groundbreaking program that had and still has a wide influence in many industries, such as accounting, business, human resources. The Blue Rider 11:03, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
5. All are household names these days and vital examples of their genre of software. We list a lot of less recognizable softwares, even after the removal round above. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Support they are all essential in everyday life for many people, institutions, corporations, and other entities. For PowerPoint, our Wiki article says "Since the late 1990s, PowerPoint's worldwide market share of presentation software has been estimated at 95 percent." This was then, now it's still central to the market, with maybe around 30% of the market overall probably, with Canva and Keynote as a main "competitors", however most people regular people still return to PowerPoint (also consider its historical use).¹²³ Radlrb (talk) 09:32, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
7. Support all. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:30, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose PowerPoint. J947 ‡ ^edits 05:04, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Oppose Microsoft PowerPoint; not a pioneering program to the presentations program industry. The Blue Rider 11:03, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Neutral on Word. J947 ‡ ^edits 05:04, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

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Add One half

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Greetings,

I think it would be appropriate to rate One half (1⁄2) as at least a Level 5 article, given the fundamental properties it ascribes in various realms of mathematics, however a Level 4 is really more appropriate I feel.

A Level 5 rating would be too removed from the vital level of 0 and 1, and would suggest that it is on the same level of importance as the other small integers greater than 1, which I feel is not the case. One-half is quite, literally, in its own universe in the likeness of 1 and 0, yet with less significance; however, not too distanced, in select ways.

What do we think? It would be the only fraction included here (naturally). I plan to more deeply develop the article, too; technically, 1⁄2 lies between 0 3 and 1 4. A Vital Level of 4 for one-half could possibly raise the question of whether 2 5 should be rated as such. I think it classifies as a level 4 article too, alongside 1.

Thank you very much for your feedback and discussion! Radlrb (talk) 05:08, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

P.S. I originally posted this on the Level 4 talk page, however on advice from J947 ‡ ^edits I am instead posting it here.

Support

1. As nominator - Radlrb (talk) 05:08, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Support per nom. J947 ‡ ^edits 05:49, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Support not sure it is a VA4, but warrants VA5 for sure.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:02, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
4. It's the primary example of a Fraction  3. Of course, it should be here, and maybe at level 4 as well, since it seems to be more vital than Golden ratio  4. (Though 2 should probably be promoted before 1/2.) --Kammerer55 (talk) 07:11, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:35, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discussion

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Remove Polygraph (duplicating device)

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Very low pageviews (about a dozen a day), 2 interwikis. Greatest claim to fame is association with Thomas Jefferson. Niche historical gadget, we already list the more general Pantograph  5.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 17:26, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 17:26, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom, Pantograph at level 5 is enough. starship.paint (RUN) 03:07, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Historical tech trivia. I doubt this would even be vital for V6.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:30, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:31, 29 December 2023 (UTC)'
5. Support (but will nominate Polygraph)-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:14, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Virtual reality headset

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Virtual reality has become a decently major part of video games, and these headsets have even been used outside of video games. Pinging Piotrus because he asked to be pinged when I start this discussion.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:29, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Not just games, also used in medicine etc. The only consideration might be whether we need both this and virtual reality at V5 (it is already). But it's likely fine - we list a ton of computer hardware already. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Wider applications than VR gaming, preferable to individual VR headset brands.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 11:48, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Important advance in technology. starship.paint (RUN) 05:51, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
5. I am still not going to buy one any time soon.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:54, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:18, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Emulator

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I thought we had this listed but apparently we don't.

Support

1. As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 20:46, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Support, Piotrus this concept clearly goes beyond games, the emulator article has examples of printers, calculators, even computer systems. starship.paint (RUN) 12:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. This is very important for software preservation beyond games. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Fundamental concept that has longevity. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

1. I am not sure I see why this is vital. A tool used by small number of gamers to emulate games. Well, sure, there's more, but... the nom is not making a convincign argument here, sorry. Tell me (us?) more why this is vital, please. @LaukkuTheGreit: --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

   As time goes on, more and more software will be legacy software (so even more than now), many of them culturally important, requiring emulation to access - see Digital preservation which is well-known enough to have 18 interwikis. There are gaming scene impacts too such as popularising fan-translations, ROM hacks, piracy and forms of speedrunning. Emulators are furthermore a rather widespread concept, with the article having 42 interwikis and 737 mainspace links, I'm not sure "small number of gamers" is correct. Plus the article I'm proposing is more general than games.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 11:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

   Moving my comment form oppose to neutral after reading rationale above. Thanks, LaukkuTheGreit. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:21, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

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Add Maritime transport

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This seems to be an oversight in light of Rail transport  4, Cable transport  4, Road transport  4, and Aviation  4.

Support

1. As nom.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:24, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 04:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Didn't we discuss it (are discussing it) somewhere else? Or maybe that was just a suggestion. Obvious addition, might be V4. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:32, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Land transport

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Not far behind the above nomination in vitality.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD)

Support

1. As nom.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:27, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
2. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 04:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Weak support, since it is not as common concept as subarticles on road or rail. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:33, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Microplastics

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Target: Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Technology#Materials (39 articles), under Plastic. Objects that have been spread far around Earth, such that they are in our air, water, and soil. They have been found in animals and even human blood. Could be a health hazard. starship.paint (RUN) 14:00, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. starship.paint (RUN) 14:00, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Important for the topic of pollution. The Blue Rider 15:17, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Support (BTW the actual article name is in plural form, "Microplastic" is a redirect)--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 16:23, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:31, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
5. per nom-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:06, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Per nom. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Distribution board

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Support

1. As nominator -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 08:53, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Nice idea. This is the classic mundane, not sexy/cool, but vital modern concept. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 11:41, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:19, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• Technical note: this and most other proposals immediatley below seem to be to belong in 'Technology' not 'Everday life' section. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:47, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

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Add Oxygen mask

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Support

1. As nominator -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:22, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 13:41, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Support Radlrb (talk) 03:06, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Per the explanation below. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:57, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Per nom (and below). Aszx5000 (talk) 13:34, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Please explain why this is not redundant to Gas mask  5? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:45, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

   A gas mask is a type of air filtration device that filters out harmful gasses so that one can breath the filtered air. It also protects the eyes from harmful gasses which can be blinding. It is essential in some ground warfare when toxic bombs with substances such as Mustard gas are released. An oxygen mask is a mask that is affixed to a supply of oxygen and delivers air that is rich in oxygen. When it is hard to breath (like if an airplane depressurizes) having oxygen rich air is essential to survival. There are other medical situations in which the lungs may be weak or burdened or the heart is not efficiently pumping oxygen throughout the body where such masks are quite helpful. Both are types of masks that can be lifesaving. They are very different.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:10, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove specific software examples

Overall the stuff here is IMHO dated or not significant enough to be called vital. Some of this is just our artifcat of "I use this, I edit Wiki/vital, I think it is useful, I'll add it here", I fear. For context, keep in mind V5 (not V4) includes right now stuff like ChatGPT, Google Chrome, Internet Explorer, Adobe Acrobat, etc. MS Windows is just V4. PS. I'll add more stuff here over the next few days as part of my review of Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Technology. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Remove Adobe After Effects

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Minor Adopbe product, not in the same league as V5 Photoshop oor Reader. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove Adobe Flash

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It was widely used for a decade or so, and now it's gone and young people don't know what it is (and old never knew). This is effectively a history of web design subtopic that IMHO did not stand the test of time for V5. Not proposing a swap b/c the previous link is just a redirect, although if split I think that would be a fair V5 topic and a swap/addition candidate. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. There is no lasting vitality here. In a decade it will be forgotten. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:15, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Weak support; fairly niche and more of a route to get to something vital than something vital itself. J947 ‡ ^edits— Preceding unsigned comment added by J947 (talk • contribs) 00:21, December 31, 2023 (UTC)-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:01, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. This was not a minor product and it was very widely used, as a key software built into other programs or websites. Technology comes and goes like Windows 98, but still listed as it's a part of history. starship.paint (RUN) 07:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Per Starship. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:09, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Oppose I think at this stage there are much better Technology articles to remove.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 20:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
5. Oppose This was ubiquitous in online multimedia way up until the 2010s and was practically a requirement to watch videos via browser, not to mention the impact it had on the culture of the 2000s Internet via animation and browser games. Totalibe (talk) 11:03, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
6. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:05, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

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Remove Final Cut Studio

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More Adobe software that did not stand the test of time, discontinued product that did is not inthe same league as Reader or Photoshop, just a dozen+ interwikis. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Support Very few pageviews, a discontinued product.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 12:19, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
5. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove Netscape (web browser) or swap for History of the web browser

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Like Adobe Flash below, historical software that did not stand the test of time. Consider a swap for History of web browsers. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Swap per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Support swap. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. SWAP. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Given the impact this had on the early Web, and being consistently one of the top 2 browsers during the first decade where the internet became widespread, this feels like a very recentist proposal. I'd remove Opera (web browser) before considering this. Totalibe (talk) 11:03, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

   @Totalibe But did it really have that much of an impact? Just 10 interwikis. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:23, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

   That's an umbrella article, Netscape Navigator has 48. Totalibe (talk) 21:46, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

   @Totalibe: - I think we should list Netscape Navigator, not Netscape (web browser). starship.paint (RUN) 01:47, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

2. per Totalibe TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:06, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

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Remove Electron (software framework)

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Just some FOSS stuff. Nothing in the article suggests it has been impactful or important for anything. 18 interwikis, short reception section. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Widely used but more like a bundle tool than an independent framework. Seems easy to be replaced. David Xuang (talk) 18:36, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove FFmpeg

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More FOSS stuff that has no claim of importance in the article. It exists, some folks know about it, that's about all the aricle says. 20+ interwikis. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Support. Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove foobar2000

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Freeware audio player with zero suggestion of vitality. Nothing about reception/legacy/significance for popculture. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 07:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Support Very few pageviews.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 12:19, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
5. Fairly popular as open source/customizable music player but I'd suggest swapping for Windows Media Player. Totalibe (talk) 11:03, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove OBS Studio

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Useful free software I've used myself but nothing in the article suggests it is vital. <30 interwikis. The article is does not even have a reception section, not to mention aything related to impact on popculture or such. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:16, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Support. Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove TensorFlow

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One of three entries under Artificial Intelligence (3 articles) and the least impressive. Less interwikis/page views than ChatGPT and AlphaGo listed there. ChatGPT is the face of the new AI revolution, AlphaGo is historically significant, and TensorFlow is... what? Open source? Meh. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:17, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Was the most popular framework but apparently projects can be easily migrated from it. David Xuang (talk) 18:34, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove FreeRTOS

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Seems like another attempt to add some FOSS entry, this time to the list of operating system. Linux will suffice. Just 19 interwikis, no claim of any significance. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Totalibe (talk) 11:03, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove FileZilla

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Yet another FOSS software that is not particularly special. No claim of significance, reception, etc. in the article. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:17, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Support. Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove Arch Linux

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We currently list 4 specific Linux distributions, and this is the least popular (going by, a, number of interwikis, and b, the fact that I've never heard about it, unlike the others) out of those (other are Debian, Fedora and Ubuntu). What makes this one vital? Nothing in the article suggests it is special. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:22, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:17, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Support, even an occasional Arch user, but I'm not sure we need any specific Linux distros in the list. Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose This is one of the most popular distros among specialists (incidentally this is probably why the page has less views than the others). Certainly I think it isn't on the same level as FreeRTOS. Totalibe (talk) 11:03, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

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Bottom 10% VA5/Technology articles by pageviews

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Here's a list, least viewed coming first, with pageviews from 2020-01-01 to 2023-11-28:

Extended content

Lomaum Dam 2-in-1 laptop Fengman Dam Mineral jig X-ray astronomy detector Remediation of contaminated sites with cement Synthetic biopolymer Wise Observatory Ruacana Hydroelectric Power Station Arthur Kill Bridge High-voltage shore connection Teikei Raised field Boegoeberg Dam Season extension Tibi Dam Smother crop Drywasher Wood–plastic composite Dropline Qingdao Jiaozhou Bay Bridge SWAC (computer) DREF friction spinning Stretch sensor Level (optical instrument) Dynamic demand (electric power) Globally asynchronous locally synchronous Transplanter BARS apparatus Chemosterilant Sennar Dam Shared-use path Nautical cable Deliming Organic aquaculture Flexible shaft Stadimeter Tropical horticulture Counting board In situ chemical oxidation Engineering research Pollination management Tetraethyl pyrophosphate Grain cradle UNIVAC LARC Lattice phase equaliser Arrábida Bridge Agricultural philosophy Sup'ung Dam IBM POWER architecture Graphometer Micromachinery Indigenous horticulture Animal-free agriculture Repowering SEAC (computer) Soil vapor extraction Overhead cable Spiral separator Active optics Corn harvester Thermal desorption Cycle track ILLIAC Waru Waru Circumferentor Bratsk Hydroelectric Power Station Pont de la Concorde (Paris) Risk analysis (engineering) Engineering studies Arab Mashreq International Road Network Astronomical Almanac Goods station Engineering optimization Polygraph (duplicating device) Nonfood crop Passenger terminal (maritime) Chengyang Bridge Security bug Tenaille Methoxychlor Bicycle boulevard Metasyntax Stone slab Telescope mount Astronomical catalog ROSAT Health and usage monitoring systems Spanish garden Bus garage Aquaculture of giant kelp Load-following power plant Hydraulic manifold Liming (leather processing) Job (computing) Stadia mark Primary mirror Rocker box Shared transport DVB Prism lighting Home energy storage Bait (luring substance) Hiroshima Electric Railway GALEX INTEGRAL Transform, clipping, and lighting Agro-terrorism Beneficial organism Toxaphene Net (device) Interconnector Container format New Austrian tunneling method Biostimulation Shifter (bicycle part) Solar telescope Hook (hand tool) Port of Kobe Wooden box Geoduck aquaculture Digital multimedia broadcasting Banpo Bridge Plastics engineering Final Cut Studio Port of Port Hedland Effelsberg 100-m Radio Telescope Tiltmeter Demand-responsive transport Grid code Breakdown (vehicle) Topographic Abney level Agricultural expansion Open-end spinning Transparency (human–computer interaction) Atlas (computer) Tabqa Dam Mechanical filter Rod end bearing Agrometeorology Soil steam sterilization Genetically modified tree Integrated multi-trophic aquaculture Astronomical filter Bike lane Weak artificial intelligence Application checkpointing Roller (agricultural tool) Offshore aquaculture Task (computing) Manchester computers Penetrator (aircraft) Rat bike Backup software Negative impedance converter Nutrient management Cahora Bassa Leg mechanism Bus terminus Numerical relay Urban horticulture Digital Terrestrial Multimedia Broadcast Reaper-binder GDK Glide (API) Powder keg Microgeneration Lifting equipment Groundwater remediation Data (computer science) Agricultural geography Nuclear transfer Metal casting Surrey (carriage) Pharming (genetics) Mechanical screening Enguri Dam Scallop aquaculture Spinneret (polymers) Engineering statistics Aquaculture of catfish Variable-frequency oscillator IRAS Ammunition box Galileo project X-ray telescope Weibo Drafting machine Assisted-opening knife Aperture synthesis Port of Yokohama Integrated modular avionics Chemical reaction engineering Soil salinity control Bicycle parking rack Trans-Mongolian Railway Pentaprism Chalk line Motor ship Gemini Observatory El Ferdan Railway Bridge Gold dredge Clock domain crossing Crab trap Low-Frequency Array (LOFAR) Intermodal passenger transport Tokyo Metropolitan Bureau of Transportation Norfolk four-course system Phototube Solar fuel Contact fuze Sapporo Municipal Subway Agricultural soil science Laundry room Byway (road) Electrical busbar system Double fisherman's knot Very Long Baseline Array Dialysis (chemistry) Fishing float Technology assessment Port of Barcelona Surveyor's wheel Super grid Pharmaceutical engineering Plane table Knife switch Multilevel streets in Chicago Micro combined heat and power Infrared telescope Nagoya Municipal Subway Demand factor Airborne collision avoidance system Rotary switch Ring spinning Voskhod programme Spinning (polymers) Western Interconnection Underwater tunnel Furnace (central heating) Anti-submarine net Availability factor Busan Metro IBM 7030 Stretch Raceway (aquaculture) Rogun Dam Si-o-se-pol Blood agent Molecular engineering Trans-European high-speed rail network Polymer engineering Swather Microwave engineering Backfeeding Uncrewed spacecraft Gregorian telescope Whirlwind I Online dating Flying junction Function (computer programming) MeerKAT Bioaugmentation Caracas Metro New Croton Dam Synchronous circuit Whippletree (mechanism) Plastic mulch Shading language Spinning frame Trommel screen Lyon Metro Electronic lock Sponge grenade South Pole Telescope Power hammer Peak demand Drought tolerance Marine shrimp farming Biomining Biomass (energy) Autocollimator Formal specification Disc tumbler lock Great Seto Bridge Environmental biotechnology Reusability Jacob's staff Future Air Navigation System Optical isolator Stamp mill Manchester Mark 1 Road junction Automatic generation control Dirt road Intercontinental and transoceanic fixed links Miniaturization Stockholm Metro Motorcycle taxi Agricultural chemistry Siding (construction) Crate Nanoelectromechanical systems Railway engineering Dock Carbon (API) Extractive metallurgy Baton round Rio de Janeiro Metro List of dams and reservoirs Menai Bridge Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing Trou de loup Hardiness (plants) Freshwater prawn farming Altazimuth mount Trotline Semi-rigid airship Octant (instrument) TransMilenio

These were acquired via inputting the subpage URL into the Massviews tool and selecting wikilinks (The VA categories frustratingly only contain the talk pages, not the articles themselves). I then downloaded the CSV file and used NotePad++ and some online tools to get a clean list. Note that it takes a rather long while for Wmcloud's servers to handle all the thousands of pages, better not make big queries lightly.

Some articles rank lower than they should, because they have been moved recently and the Massviews tool doesn't count pageviews of articles' former names; double-check by e.g. putting the article name in this tool, selecting the appropriate time range and enabling counting views from redirects. Some of the listed items may also be assorted links that happened to be on the VA5/Technology page.

I thought about posting the full list, but decided it was overkill at 51 kilobytes and we already had a problem with talk page sizes.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 18:43, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

• @LaukkuTheGreit: - thank you for your great effort. Can I check if you have future plans to do this for over-quota sections like Cities, Entertainers, Writers, Artists, Sports figures, Miscellaneous figures, Politics and economics? starship.paint (RUN) 01:05, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

  @Starship.paint: I don't really have plans for more, other than maybe History of which I also have a list. A better use of time would probably be to setup an external tool to specifically serve the purposes of this project, like the vitality estimator I last mentioned here.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 12:50, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

  @LaukkuTheGreit: - alright, no worries, we'll work with what we have. starship.paint (RUN) 12:52, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

  Lots of good ideas here, for tools - and removals. Please try to list some of the least viewed articles for discussion (are they at the top or bottom?). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:26, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

  As I said, "least viewed coming first" i.e. at the top.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 22:10, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

• Almost all of these all look like they could be safely (and boldly?) removed. The sole exceptions from a quick glance: Stockholm Metro (note that Copenhagen Metro is a VA5, seems valid enough), Function (computer programming), Weibo, Galileo project, and Dialysis (chemistry). Maybe Busan Metro / Flying junction / Voskhod programme are borderline? SnowFire (talk) 20:33, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

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Remove lowly-viewed technology articles, proposal 1

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1. 2-in-1 laptop (2nd least viewed, 10 interwikis) - a combination of Level 5 articles Laptop  5 and Tablet computer  5, so there is significant overlap.
2. Mineral jig (4th least viewed, 2 interwikis) - stub with 2 references. A machine used in Level 5 article Mineral processing  5.
3. Ruacana Hydroelectric Power Station (9th least viewed, 7 interwikis) The largest power station in Namibia, but I am not seeing its vitality.
4. High-voltage shore connection (11th least viewed, 1 interwiki) - stub with 1 reference. Ships being connected with the electric grid. Not seeing its vitality.
5. Drywasher (18th least viewed, zero interwikis) - stub with 2 references. A tool for gold mining. Low-importance in WikiProject Geology.
6. DREF friction spinning (23th least viewed, 1 interwiki) - 2 references. Yarn spinning technology. Seems niche. Spinning (textiles) is not yet vital, someone can propose if they want.
7. Globally asynchronous locally synchronous (27th least viewed, 0 interwikis) - stub, 4 references. A form of computation for electric circuits. Low-importance in WikiProject Electronics. Not seeing its vitality.
8. BARS apparatus (29th least viewed, 1 interwiki) - stub. Soviet technology from 1990 to grow diamonds or boron nitride. Could be obsolete? Not proven to be top-of-its-field.
9. Nautical cable (33rd least viewed, 1 interwiki) - 2 references only. Any rope used on a sailing ship. Not very specific.
10. Deliming (34th least viewed, 0 interwikis) - 1 reference only. One of the many Leather production processes, which is not yet vital, someone can propose if they want. Not seeing its vitality.
11. Grain cradle (44th least viewed, 0 interwikis) - 3 references only. Scythe  5 is already vital, and this is a modified scythe that has already fallen out of use, according to the article.
12. Arrábida Bridge (47th least viewed, 8 interwikis) - a bridge in Portugal. Not seeing its vitality.
13. Thermal desorption (62nd least viewed, 3 interwikis) - 2 references only. Environmental remediation  5 is already Level 5 vital, and this is one form of it.
14. Pont de la Concorde (Paris) (68th least viewed, 22 interwikis) - 2 references only. A bridge across the Seine  5, a river in France. Note that the lede of the Seine article mentions Pont Alexandre III  5, Pont Neuf  5 and Pont de Normandie, not this Concorde, in fact the Seine article itself does not mention Concorde, instead stating: There are 37 bridges in Paris across the Seine.
15. Chengyang Bridge (78th least viewed, 16 interwikis) - 2 references only. A bridge in China. Not seeing its vitality.

Removing these 15 articles covers the 10 currently proposed additions that are passing (Virtual reality headset, Blockchain, Emulator, Media player software, Gmail, Telegram, Zoom (software), Microsoft Excel, Maritime transport, Land transport), as well as 5 more currently proposed additions that need more votes for a decision:

• 11. Windows Live Messenger - 1 more vote needed for result
• 12. Microplastics - 1 more vote needed for result
• 13. Home page - 1 more vote needed for result
• 14. Microsoft Word - 1 more vote needed for result
• 15. Facebook Messenger (software) - 2 more votes needed for result

For your consideration. starship.paint (RUN) 02:37, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. starship.paint (RUN) 02:37, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Remove all of those 15. SnowFire (talk) 06:46, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Support all. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:25, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Support all. Great work. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:29, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Support all Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:53, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Support all.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:54, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Mixed

1. Support all except 2-in-1 laptop--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:31, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

2-in-1 laptop isn't actually the 2nd-least-viewed article, the Massviews tool interprets it as such due to a very recent move (several moves acutally, it used to be at 2-in-1 PC). Still, its pageviews are quite low at less than 100 per day just before and since the moves:[1]. In earlier years it got more pageviews however, I'm currently undecided.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:31, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

• I am just not sure what is so special about the 2-in-1 laptop. The article states that there are two versions, the convertible, which is basically a laptop that can be folded into a tablet, and the detachable, which is a tablet that a keyboard can be attached to. How significant or revolutionary are these changes? starship.paint (RUN) 12:13, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
• Would support a swap of Arrábida Bridge with Dom Luís I Bridge. The Blue Rider 03:09, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

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Swap, add Soil erosion and remove Downhill creep

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Soil erosion is the loss of the upper layer of soil. Downhill creep is soil rolling down a slope. I think the former is more important. Soil erosion: 22 interwikis. Downhill creep: 13 interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 14:19, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Seens more vital.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:40, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
2. as nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:27, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
3. per nom -Marchantiophyta (talk) 03:43, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
4. per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 15:21, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Support. Zar2gar1 (talk) 17:31, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• User:Starship.paint Did you mean to support as a nom.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:40, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

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Swap, add Topsoil and remove Hydric soil

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Topsoil: upper layer of soil around Earth. Hydric soil is saturated with water. One is much more common than the other. Topsoil: 16 interwikis. Hydric soil: 3 interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 14:19, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Seens more vital.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:40, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
2. as nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:27, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
3. per nom -Marchantiophyta (talk) 03:38, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:50, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Support. Zar2gar1 (talk) 17:31, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• User:Starship.paint Did you mean to support as a nom.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:40, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

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Remove Windows Vista

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It is no more vital than Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 which are not listed. Interstellarity (talk) 01:39, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Interstellarity (talk) 01:39, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
2. I forgot it existed. I think it was less popular than preceding Windows XP  5 and succeeding Windows 7  5. The article describes this release as a "market failure", the "target of significant criticism" and "one of the worst versions of Windows". --Kammerer55 (talk) 02:24, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Not every version of Windows is V5. This was one of the minor ones. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:13, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Very much overshadowed. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
5. A case of RECENTISM, no lasting vitality. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:28, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Support, without getting into Vista specifically, I'd be for removing all specific versions of Windows. Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
7. Support-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:11, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Though not as popular as Windows 7, actually its kernel differs from WinXP much more than from Win7 (e.g. the introduction of WASAPI and obsoletion of KMixer).--RekishiEJ (talk) 13:21, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

   @RekishiEJ So what? How does that make it vital? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:20, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

   Windows Vista, though not as well-received than WinXP or Win7, actually is still vital since the introduction of it is a great step in the history of Windows NT - even more crucial than the introduction of Win7.--RekishiEJ (talk) 07:31, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Not sure which level 3s (3rd level of Windows at VA5, Not VA3) are more important than others.TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:46, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

1. Why do we nest 3 levels deep on Windows and not have Microsoft Word  5 or Microsoft Excel  5-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:38, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

   We list Microsoft Office  5 in other section, though you might be right that Word and Excel are probably more ubiquitous and vital than old versions of windows. Kammerer55 (talk) 19:01, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

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Add Rutaceae

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A taxonomic family with species including the Lemon  4, Orange (fruit)  4, Lime (fruit)  4, and Grapefruit  4. It has over 160 genera and over a thousand species. That list should make the argument for vitality clear.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:28, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Fair enough. The Blue Rider 03:05, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Support, rubber-stamping really since we're still way under quota. Zar2gar1 (talk) 16:45, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Cowpox

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This disease is a milder version of Smallpox  3 that was used as the first version of the Smallpox vaccine  4, and it was the origin of the word Vaccine  3.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:46, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom, and we have space. starship.paint (RUN) 09:34, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
3. J947 ‡ ^edits 09:38, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support. Zar2gar1 (talk) 16:45, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Support-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:58, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Seat belt

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Support

1. As nominator -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:22, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Very common. starship.paint (RUN) 13:29, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Support Could be VA4.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 13:41, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Common, important = vital. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:43, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Support Radlrb (talk) 03:08, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Could easily be VA4. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:36, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Packaging and labeling

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Setting aside whether this article shouldn't be split, it is pretty vital. 48 interwikis. Goes to the container section? Maybe should be V4? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 15:24, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 15:17, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 04:39, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Support per nom. Not classically encyclopaedic but I reckon I'd support it at VA4 too. J947 ‡ ^edits 11:00, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 22:28, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Although the article should be split, I support this content as vital.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:19, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Ericaceae

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This genus includes the Blueberry  4, Cranberry  4, Huckleberry  5, and Rhododendron  4, among others. It has roughly 4250 species, putting it in the top 15 for families with the most species. It also has 124 genera.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:55, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Good proposal as always; support. The Blue Rider 19:21, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:12, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support. Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:47, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Support per nom. Gizza (talk) 03:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
6. Support My favorite family! --Marchantiophyta (talk) 00:13, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

Wait, Ericaceae  4 is already on the list (and at a higher level) -- Marchantiophyta (talk) 00:35, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

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Add Activated carbon

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From the article: "Activated carbon is used in methane and hydrogen storage,[1][2] air purification,[9] capacitive deionization, supercapacitive swing adsorption, solvent recovery, decaffeination, gold purification, metal extraction, water purification, medicine, sewage treatment, air filters in respirators, filters in compressed air, teeth whitening, production of hydrogen chloride, edible electronics,[10] and many other applications."

Support

1. As nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 15:42, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Support, good catch, it's a very basic and handy material. Zar2gar1 (talk) 00:30, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Support per nom. J947 ‡ ^edits 10:58, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support. Respublik (talk) 23:20, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove phases of ice

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1. Ice Ih
2. Ice Ic
3. Ice II
4. Ice III
5. Ice V
6. Ice VI
7. Ice VII
8. Ice VIII
9. Ice IX
10. Ice XI
11. Ice XII
12. Ice XV
13. Ice XVI

Most ice on Earth is ice Ih, and the rest are found in laboratory or extreme conditions. This is sufficiently covered in Ice#Phases. Chemistry is over quota.

Support

1. As nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 15:42, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Support, agree completely, AFAIK the only cultural relevance is Ice IX from one Vonnegut novel. Zar2gar1 (talk) 00:30, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Support per nom, though wouldn't disagree with keeping Ice Ih. J947 ‡ ^edits 10:55, 16 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support per nom but I agree with J947 that I wouldn't mind keeping ice Ih (weak support - don't really have strong opinions here) Aurangzebra (talk) 02:48, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 18:16, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
6. I don't see how this is vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:56, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
7. SupportTonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:03, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
8. Neutral on Ice Ih, support removing the rest. Gizza (talk) 02:15, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
9. Support per nom. --Marchantiophyta (talk) 01:28, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Airbag

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Support

1. As nominator -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:22, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 13:41, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Weak support. Not as commonly seen as seatbelt but still a common concept that most know about. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:44, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Support Radlrb (talk) 03:07, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Airbags are pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:37, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add the following online services

Add Gmail

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Communication (1 article) section looks lonely with just Microsoft Outlook, and Gmail has 2x the number of interwikis (98 to 49). Could consider a swap I guess but given my suggestions for removals above, I wager we are ok on space :P --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Very common email service. starship.paint (RUN) 13:03, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:11, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:52, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
5. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
6. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:25, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
7. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
8. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:13, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Messenger (software)

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We list a ton of stuff under Social network and blogging (28 articles), including histsorical ICQ and Korea-only KakaoTalk (<30 interwikis). Facebook service is very popular and should be listed too (51 interwikis). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose, personally just going on the "no-brands" principle. Zar2gar1 (talk) 00:12, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
2. For similar reasons as Zar2gar1. The Blue Rider 01:31, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

• KakaoTalk works outside of Korea. I can't support adding this before MSN Messenger. There's also significant overlap with Facebook? starship.paint (RUN) 13:06, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

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Add Telegram (software)

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See above. 92 interwikis. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Given the other software already listed, this is on par. starship.paint (RUN) 12:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
4. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Add Zoom (software)

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36 interwikis is not as much as I expected, but it is arguably the most popular videoconferencing software out there. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Per nom and made even more important by the COVID-19 pandemic. Even courts are using the software. starship.paint (RUN) 13:04, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
3. Per above, and since it caused a new phenomenon "Zoombombing" which was also used to describe incidents in other software as well. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:57, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. WP:TOOSOON. This company is encountering a lot of competition and its longevity is not so clear to me.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:21, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Not a vital piece of software, videotelephony already covers this well. The Blue Rider 10:15, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
3. TOOSOON (and I think Google and Microsoft will (are) kill it). Aszx5000 (talk) 13:14, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Weak oppose, yeah too soon. Like The Blue Rider, I also think the subject is more important than software of the subject in this case. J947 ‡ ^edits 00:25, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

Neutral because of what Tony said. Zoom's VA5 case comes from being used a lot during the pandemic. In five years, how common will videoconferencing be? Will Zoom continue to be a dominant platform? pbp 17:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

VA lists seem to be dynamic in nature (since we add more recent important concepts as they happen), so we can always remove it later. It also seems to be more notable than many technical articles suggested for removal above. --Kammerer55 (talk) 19:57, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Nah they're not meant to be dynamic. If a topic makes it now, it should still make it in 30 years. J947 ‡ ^edits 22:34, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

This argument cannot fully work in all cases, since the current lists have limited capacity, so we obviously have to remove some topics as the new very significant contemporary topics emerge. Though I fully agree that potential longevity should be accounted for to make the lists as stable as possible. Kammerer55 (talk) 23:58, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Yeah I tried to craft my comment in a way to avoid that loophole, which is of course 100% correct, and failed. These vital lists would look very different back in 1923. But ignoring that... J947 ‡ ^edits 10:33, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

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Add Windows Live Messenger

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51 interwikis. Also known as MSN Messenger. It was very widely used before the current era of communication, before Facebook and Twitter and Whatsapp and Telegram. We already list ICQ at level 5, while this Messenger had (300+million users) thrice the number of users than ICQ, according to their articles. starship.paint (RUN) 12:52, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. per nom. Frankly the current computer services category seems quite recentist, and compared to those listings, MSN Messenger was an important part of online history. starship.paint (RUN) 12:52, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
2. Given the other software already listed, this is on par, to quote you, Starship.paint :P. That said, I think this section may be getting overblown, as we are listing all non-trivial pieces of related software. I think we need to cut it by half, frankly, to the most important ones. It won't be easy, however. (Korea's KakaoTalk probably can go, it is big in Korea and not anywhere else?). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 13:17, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

   The section is overblown due to the recentist additions. As technology improves, the number of widely used services has increased. We must consider if our threshold for including current niche websites like 4chan, DeviantArt is simply too low, or KakaoTalk, as you said. Plus, if we are cutting down we would have just Facebook, no need for Facebook Messenger. starship.paint (RUN) 13:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

3. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose, acting on my "no-brands" principle, plus it wasn't particularly ground-breaking and didn't show staying power. Zar2gar1 (talk) 00:12, 19 January 2024 (UTC)
2. For similar reasons as Zar2gar1. The Blue Rider 16:46, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Oppose I would support adding Instant messaging  5 rather than one instant messaging which was for bit over a decade and while popular, not particularly influential in the long term (wasn't the first nor last). Gizza (talk) 02:18, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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Remove Windows 95 and Windows 98

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Given that we have Operating system  4, Microsoft Windows  4, and Windows 9x  5 do we really need these ten Microsoft Windows articles?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:53, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. Support as nom.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:53, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Since technology is progressing very rapidly, we probably should not list so many old versions of the same operating system. By the way, we don't list any versions of Android, even though it is now available on more devices than Windows. --Kammerer55 (talk) 07:07, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Weak support Windows 98--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 12:30, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Weak support since parent article on 9x is vital. IF this does not pass, then we should remove the 9x article. One of those sets is enough. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:30, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
5. Support, Windox 9x is vital and captures it. In time, all these brands will be forgotten. 13:31, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
6. Support removing both, especially if we already list an article on the 9x family. Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:47, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
7. Support Microsoft Windows is sufficient. And the same goes for different versions of all other operating systems listed. Gizza (talk) 02:25, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose Windows 95 Too historically important IMO.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 12:30, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

   Why should we look at it as anything more than Windows 1.0. Actually, it wasn't 1.0, but maybe it was the first powerful version of windows.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:48, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

   [2][3] Cultural phenomenon, sale of personal computers significantly rose afterwards.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 11:41, 7 December 2023 (UTC)

2. Oppose both Both of these were very significant in computer history, there are way better candidates to remove in technology like many of those on bottom viewed and the dams that have been proposed. Totalibe (talk) 15:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Oppose both per reasons given; they were fundamental (Win 95 first to have a start button, Win 98 first to have a WDM) in transitioning to the more standardized advanced NT versions starting with Windows 2000 (that did not have NT in its name), and then XP. Radlrb (talk) 03:14, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Oppose both per above, I would rather remove Windows 9x  5. starship.paint (RUN) 01:33, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam

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Biggest dam ever being built, massive, massive repercussions both biologically and politically. The Blue Rider 03:13, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:13, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Support. Respublik (talk) 22:34, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:15, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support, like nom says, a really big dam and a really big deal. Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:47, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Support vital on size alone for Level 5 but the geopolitical and environmental ramifications may make it Level 4 vital once built. Gizza (talk) 02:27, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Septic tank

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This is where sewage is processed when there is no sewage treatment facility, a common situation in developing countries. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:36, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:36, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
2. I would definitely consider septic tanks vital to society. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:30, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 04:40, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support, definitely not glamorous, but important. Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:47, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
5. V5 tech, agreed. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:42, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Volkswagen Beetle

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The German/Volkswagen  4 equivalent of the Ford Model T  5. The Blue Rider 00:10, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nominator. The Blue Rider 00:10, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Definitely this one, not sure about any further models. J947 ‡ ^edits 00:52, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
3. This and some of the others.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 01:08, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom (would also like Toyota Prius and Benz Patent-Motorwagen) Aurangzebra (talk) 06:40, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Classic car, popculture icon. I don't want to see more then few car models listed at V5, but sure, this one is vital. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:32, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
6. We can cut some specific aircraft, airports and computers to make room for car models which are instrumental to the history of transport. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 07:38, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• Question: what do people think about adding a couple more specific historically important cars such as Toyota Prius, Benz Patent-Motorwagen, Tesla Model S, etc. The Blue Rider 00:15, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

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Add QR code

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The most common type of two-dimensional barcode, ubiquitous worldwide.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 02:27, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Of course. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:21, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:17, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support, would still like to cut computing more overall, but we've removed enough that adding a single new one shouldn't hurt. Zar2gar1 (talk) 01:08, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add contact lens

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Contact lenses are a very important and ubiquitous technology used to correct vision whenever glasses are not suitable or preferred, being worn by more than 150 million people worldwide. They have been far more influential and transformative on people's lives than most of the current technology proposals. Note that currently glasses is introduced into the list at Level 4 and sunglasses at Level 5.

Support

1. Support as nom. Gizza (talk) 04:09, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Support. Zar2gar1 (talk) 04:46, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:37, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support  Carlwev  07:16, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 08:37, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
6. Easy V5, another oversight. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:28, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
7. Obviously. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:49, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
8. Support-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:25, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

Neiither magnifying glass nor magnification are in the vital lists at any level. It may also be worth adding one of them. Gizza (talk) 04:09, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Woof, now that's an oversight (no pun intended)! Magnifying glass is borderline for me, but magnification should absolutely be listed under Optics in Physics. I was waiting for this page to shrink a bit before adding more proposals, but another crazy thing about the Physics section is that we list over 70 colors. Just. Colors. And weird niche ones like mauve and chartreuse. Zar2gar1 (talk) 04:46, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

We do list Magnifying glass  5. Magnification  5 however is indeed not listed.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 08:37, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

My bad, I looked at the talk page and somehow didn't see the vital tag template. @Zar2gar1: Thanks for bringing the Physics section to my attention. I have a hard time believing chartreuse (color) could be vital in a list of 100,000 or maybe even a million, let alone 50,000. Gizza (talk) 22:23, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

I bought this up at level 4 six years ago and it got quite a bit of support back then, but not enough to add. I imagine it has to be at least vital at level 5, article says 150 million people world wide use them.  Carlwev  07:16, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

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Add Rinderpest

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This disease has plagued cattle for centuries, nearly wiped out all of the cattle in Africa in the 1890s, and became the second disease in the world to be fully eradicated, after smallpox. Rated High-Importance by the Agriculture, Viruses, and Veterinary Medicine WikiProjects.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:59, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom, and we have space. starship.paint (RUN) 09:34, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Good find. J947 ‡ ^edits 09:37, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support. Zar2gar1 (talk) 16:45, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove Airbus A340

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Only 380 aircraft built compared to 1,500+ for both the Airbus A330  5 and Boeing 777  5. Not as important as other widebody aircraft of its era.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 07:47, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
2. I don't see most specific models of cars, planes or such as vital. Particularly modern ones like this, this is just a product, nothing revolutionary or particularly common. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:45, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:33, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support, especially since we at least include the A300 (the first Airbus model). Zar2gar1 (talk) 01:08, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Support -- Marchantiophyta (talk) 01:40, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

• Note: I don't know if overall Boeing and Airbus articles mention this, but there are actually a lot of interesting philosophical & cultural differences that filter into their designs. Just something to keep in mind for the airliner models from the list. Zar2gar1 (talk) 01:08, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

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Add Amaranthaceae

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This family has many species, including Spinach  4, Sugar beet  4, and Beetroot  4. Its species are used for food, medicine, and decoration. It is rated High-Importance by WikiProject Plants.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:58, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Important family. The Blue Rider 19:22, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:13, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support. Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:47, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Support per above. Gizza (talk) 03:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
6. Support per nom --Marchantiophyta (talk) 00:13, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Add Palomino

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Horses are under-represented compared to dogs, cats and cattle. --Makkool (talk) 13:56, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. --Makkool (talk) 13:56, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
2. 25 interwikis and seems pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:45, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Support. Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:47, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:51, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Spandex

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A very common fiber used in clothing.

Support

1. As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 15:09, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
2. Also has some popculture (fetish?) aspects. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:27, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:17, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support. Zar2gar1 (talk) 01:08, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
5. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:48, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Specific hardware removals

General note/context: listing hardware pieces that IMHO are not in the same league as V5 Amazon Kindle, Amiga, Commodore 64, iPad, iPhone, Mac, Walkman, ZX Spectrum... --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Remove Asus Eee PC

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The article claims that "The first Eee PC was a milestone in the personal computer business, launching the netbook category of small, low-cost laptops in the West ". Fine - and so what? Netbook is just V5. Perhaps this is the most historically significant netbook, but frankly, I am not even concerned that netbook itself should be V5. So is laptop. On a sidenote, shouldn't netbook be moved from that category to 'Computer hardware' one where laptop is? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Long-term vitality seems rather dubious here, especially as the line was soon discontinued once tablets became popular. Totalibe (talk) 12:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:18, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
4. David Xuang (talk) 18:41, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Support, computing is way over-represented in Tech; brands are a good place to start cutting. Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove Chromebook

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Another specific brand/type of laptop. Not seeing what makes it vital enough to be listed here. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. "As of 2020, Chromebook's market share is 10.8%, placing it above the Mac platform", not to mention that it is associated with its own separate OS. Totalibe (talk) 12:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
2. per Totalibe TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:17, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Possibility that this lasts longer than expected; too early to tell. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:21, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

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Remove MSX

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Not seeing much significance here. "MSX systems were popular in Japan and several other countries." Regional computer history trivia. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Notable, but no lasting vitality here. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:22, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Support, may be notable, but still a specific computer brand. Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support the brand is too local and niche to be vital. Gizza (talk) 02:19, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. This achieved market dominance in Japan (which is not a small market) similar to the Commodore 64 elsewhere. The "impact" section directly compares overall sales to other devices; MSX sold 9 million (weirdly there's a contradiction here as the lede says 9 million worldwide whereas the impact section says Japan alone), while C64 is noted at 12.5-17 million, Apple II at 6 million and the ZX Spectrum at 5 million. All of these systems that sold comparable total numbers are also listed, and the same section also notes it success was not limited to Japan, mentioning specifically Latin America, Spain and South Korea. Totalibe (talk) 12:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

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Remove PC-98

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Another computer that was big in Japan for a while and that's about all significance I see there. Not vital. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose With 18 million sold and at least 60% market share at one point in Japan was pretty much the Japanese counterpart to IBM compatibles. Its specific hardware strengths & weaknesses helped give rise to the visual novel and dating sim genres. Enduring legacy, often noted in English gaming communities for its characteristic pixel art, and it even plays a major role in a currently ongoing anime. Like with the Adobe Flash proposal, there are Technology articles I'd much rather remove (I have a list of VA5 Technology articles sorted by pageviews which I probably should post sometime).--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
2. This x86 PC actually was quite popular among Japanese in the 1980s and early 1990s, and a lot of PC games were made for it, thus it is no doubt vital at this level.--RekishiEJ (talk) 08:06, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Oppose per LaukkuTheGreit Totalibe (talk) 12:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Discuss

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Remove ThinkPad

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Just a brand. Not seeing what makes it vital. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 15:19, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:23, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Support, was/is (?) a popular brand, but agree that it's still only a brand. Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Support TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:07, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove EDVAC

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From here on, listings from the 'Early computers' subsubsection, which franlly at 24 seems very much in need of pruning down to 4-5 entries. Anyway, EDVAC seems like a forgotten gadget from the history of computers. Nothing major in the lead, unreferenced short section on the 'Impact on future computer design' that doesn't suggest it had major impact. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Notable (definitely), but we have far too many 'early computers' (per nom). Aszx5000 (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Aside from being a successor to ENIAC, the impact section notes that proposals regarding it directly led to the concept of Von Neumann architecture, which is still used today in nearly all computers. Totalibe (talk) 12:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Oppose per Totalibe. J947 ‡ ^edits 00:05, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

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Remove ILLIAC

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"a series of supercomputers built at a variety of locations" of no significance implied in the article. Ancient computer history trivia with just 3 interwikis. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Support Very low pageviews, less than 10 interwikis.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 01:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Support. Technically not the first Von Neumann computer, not the first in the US, and not the first at a university. Just the first to be all 3. Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove SEAC (computer)

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"a first-generation electronic computer" again missing any claim of significance from the lead. Just 5 interwikis. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Support Very low pageviews, less than 10 interwikis.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Support Totalibe (talk) 12:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove SWAC (computer)

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"an early electronic digital computer built in 1950". Again, no claim of significance, just 9 interwikis. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Support Very low pageviews, less than 10 interwikis.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Support Totalibe (talk) 12:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
4. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:25, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove UNIVAC LARC

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"one of the earliest supercomputers" but no other claim of significance. Just 4 interwikis. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Support Very low pageviews, less than 10 interwikis.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:25, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
4. per above. starship.paint (RUN) 01:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
5. Support, some interesting trivia related to it, but doesn't seem ground-breaking. Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Remove Manchester Baby and Manchester Mark 1

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A bit more significant with 17-20 interwikis, but redundant to V5 parent article on Manchester computers. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom. ---_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
2. Per nom, one Level 5 is sufficient. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:26, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
3. Support per above. The sub-articles may have more actual information and be better written, but vitality =/= current quality of the article. Gizza (talk) 02:24, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
4. Support, my main reason to keep would be to encourage a future merge, but I've noted that publicly on my to-do list now. Zar2gar1 (talk) 01:08, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Both of these seem significant in their own right and the actual info on them contained within on Manchester computers is rather limited. Totalibe (talk) 12:39, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

   Haven't looked over the articles, but one of the things I like about Lv5 is that it draws out potential mergers. Not really a discussion for here, but do you think the 3 articles could be combined? Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

I am stopping here for now but frankly I'd cut another 10 articles or so from that section which are no better. Seriously, what else outside ENIAC (V4) is needed here? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Totally agree with this. There will be many more vital tech additions, so it is important to make way and "prune" the excess from legacy tech. There are only a few who are really long-term vital. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

I'm more focused on how overweighted computing is on the list (software perhaps even more than hardware), but I agree this was a good start. Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:48, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

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