Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/Society
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Introduction[edit]
The purpose of this discussion page is to select 50,000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles.
Any article currently on this list may be challenged. The discussion is open to the following rules:
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- Discussions should run for at least 14 days before being closed;
- Discussions should have at least 4 participants before being closed;
- For a change to the list to be implemented, it must have over 60% support;
- For a change to the list to be implemented, it must have 4 support votes;
- Discussions should remain open until 7 days after the most recent vote.
- 14 days ago: 12:01, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- 7 days ago: 12:01, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
The following link represent all current Level 5 Vital articles that are classified as Society subjects:
Add Meta Platforms[edit]
One of the largest public companies in the world, regardless of industry or geography. Its products are used by billions of people daily. Surprising omission IMO.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 13:01, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. We list Google's parent company, but not Facebook's. Interstellarity (talk) 12:40, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
- Per Interstellarity Makkool (talk) 10:44, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Per discussion below. The company is not important separate from the social media apps they made. Other companies are. QuicoleJR (talk) 16:12, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per my reasoning below. Aurangzebra (talk) 03:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
- We already have Facebook
4, Instagram 5 and WhatsApp 5, which they own. Does that make them necessary or redundant?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:57, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
- Agree with TonyTheTiger here. Meta at this point is know for Facebook/Instagram/Whatsapp and hasn't really done anything VA5 worthy (while being under the name Meta) in its own right just yet. I say we need to give this one a few years. Aurangzebra (talk) 17:45, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
- It's also consistently one of the world's most valuable and influential companies, so if we are judging companies based on their influence on the world, it should be included. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 01:39, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
- Fair points and I think I'm more on the fence than I was before but I think I still lean oppose. The reason why is because when other tech companies are listed along with their products (Google 4 and Google Search 5/Google Maps 5 or Amazon (company) 4 and Amazon Web Services 5), it is because the company achieved something notable independent of their most famous products e.g. Google with its ability to roll out groundbreaking tech at scale that many thought was commercially unviable or Amazon and their ability to monopolize almost any industry they enter. Meta is the story of Facebook 4 and Mark Zuckerberg 5. A quick test you can do is read the company's wiki article and their VA product's wiki article. Does the stuff mentioned in the company article not mentioned in the product article make the company worthy of inclusion? Google/Amazon pass this imo, Meta doesn't. Aurangzebra (talk) 02:32, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
- Fair points and I think I'm more on the fence than I was before but I think I still lean oppose. The reason why is because when other tech companies are listed along with their products (Google
- It's also consistently one of the world's most valuable and influential companies, so if we are judging companies based on their influence on the world, it should be included. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 01:39, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
Add Fantasy literature[edit]
Fantasy 4 is V4 but it has no V5 children outside the recently added invisibility. This seems like a major subtopic. Suprisingly, science fiction literature is just a redirect. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:46, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support --Thi (talk) 09:53, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:55, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Definitely support--Zorro2212 (talk) 11:28, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Fun/mindblowing stuff that both philosophers and sf writers tackle, influencing popculture too. 23 interwikis, ~1k daily page views. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:23, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:23, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
- As someone who does not look into philosophy very much, I have thought about this myself a few times. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:24, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:48, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:48, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Balance of trade and Balance of payments[edit]
These are indicators of the sustainability of a country's economy, with major influence on international finance and trade policy.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 15:41, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:45, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 09:07, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support BOT-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 10:00, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Gizza (talk) 01:39, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 09:44, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- BOP-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:23, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- Mixed
- Discuss
A major concept in political science and within Globalization 3.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 08:08, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. Significant oversight. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 17:33, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 09:56, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:05, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
- Meh, neo-nationalism seems like a better candidate, nowadays at least. The Blue Rider
15:09, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
Swap: Remove National Congress of Brazil 5, Add Parliament of India[edit]
We currently only list four national legislatures: Brazil, China, the U.K., and the U.S. Of the four, Brazil seems odd since it is only a major regional (not global) power, and it has a presidential system of government. I would prefer to have the Indian parliament. India is a much, much, larger country that can be considered an emerging global power. It also seems that, on the English Wikipedia, the legislature of the world's largest Anglophone country would be vital enough for this level.
- Support
- As nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:46, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 15:36, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:51, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:29, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support addition.. Neutral on removal. Gizza (talk) 01:41, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- India could use a bit more representation compared to the US and UK. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:35, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 21:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Oppose removal. This list is not anglophone centric and Brazil is regional power on South America just like India is in South Asia. The Blue Rider 22:06, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Estée Lauder (businesswoman) 4 is at level 4. The Estée Lauder Companies, the company she cofounded, is the second largest cosmetics company in the world after L'Oréal 5.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 14:17, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:10, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Second largest may not be enough for V5. I read The Economist, I've heard of L'Oreal, but not of this one. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:51, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per Piotrus. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 09:01, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
This is the best-selling true crime book of all time with over seven million copies sold, and it was made into a movie twice.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:31, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support. I've noticed that the criteria for adding books to this list is that it either must be considered a 'classic', must have been a groundbreaking piece of work in its field, or must have been a globally known bestseller (at the level of the The Da Vinci Code 5 which sold over 80 million copies and was translated into 44 languages). True crime, in its current form, hasn't taken off outside the United States (with the exception of Australia) like it has within the states. This is evidenced by the fact that this book only has 5 interwikis. Nor was it particularly groundbreaking within the genre; that honor would go to In Cold Blood 5. I lean towards adding because true crime probably deserves a second slot and this is probably the best candidate but I can see this going either way since the global legacy was minimal. Aurangzebra (talk) 23:55, 28 January 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- First we should vote on adding True crime 5 genre to vital list. And unless it would be at V4, it is not an easy "sell" for me. Effectively this is a best selling book for a niche genre. Are we going to list as vital a bestselling book for each vital genre? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:48, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
- Only 5 interwikis indicates low cultural significance. starship.paint (RUN) 09:14, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 13:48, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
Remove Mammary intercourse 5, possible swap with fingering (sexual act)[edit]
Not entirely sure why mammary intercourse is listed here: fairly niche sexual act (in the grand scheme of all sexual acts) and doesn't have the same cultural legacy as the other acts we include. We can possibly replace it with fingering which is much more common and addresses sysbias a bit since it lends itself more towards female sexuality. Fingering also wins in all the metrics: 54 interwikis vs 47 interwikis, 6000 daily page views vs 2300.
- Support
- Support swap as nom Aurangzebra (talk) 23:03, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 01:58, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- Support add/Oppose remove. MI may seem niche in comparison to F(sa) because not all breast cleavage is sufficient to host MI, while all vagina are able to host F(sa). MI may be less common than Oral and digital/manual breast engagement, but I am not convinced MI is trivial.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:52, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
Swap per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:26, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- Change to support add/oppose remove per TonyTheTiger and Piotrus. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:38, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- That's quite a statement, TonyTheTiger. Support addition per nominator. The Blue Rider 15:42, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support addition Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 12:19, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Oppose removal, no objection to addition. 47 interwikis, over 2k daily pageviews. We should have room for this kind of fetish - the numbers do not suggest it is too niche for V5. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:39, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose removal per Piotrus. The Blue Rider 15:42, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discussion
Bottom 10% VA5/Society and social sciences articles by pageviews[edit]
Least viewed articles first, using pageviews from 2020-01-01 to 2024-02-07:
Extended content
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These were assembled with the same principles as LaukkuTheGreit's bottom 10% Technology and Arts article lists. --Makkool (talk) 20:53, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Remove lowly-viewed linguistics articles[edit]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- (in increasing order of views)
- Graphetics - branch of linguistics concerned with the analysis of the physical properties of shapes used in writing. A stub with only 2 interwikis.
- Final clause - a type of clause in a sentence. The article mentions that its very rare in English (and doesn't mention its role in other languages)
- Quantitative linguistics - branch of linguistics that deals with language learning, language change, and application as well as structure of natural languages. Has more interwikis than the others, but still feels too niche topic to be considered vital
- Graphemics - linguistic study of writing systems and their basic components, i.e. graphemes. Another niche branch of research.
- Transphonologization - a type of sound change. 1 interwiki.
- Sequential bilingualism - when a person becomes bilingual by first learning one language and then another. 0 interwikis.
- Syntactic change - a type of change in languages. 1 interwiki.
- Cacography - another name for bad spelling or bad handwriting. Doesn't seem vital.
- Crib talk - a thing small children learning to speak do. A cute detail, but doesn't really fit V5.
- Contrastive linguistics - seeks to describe the differences and similarities between a pair of languages. Another small branch of linguistics.
- Dissimilation - another type of sound change. This one also has more interwikis than the others, but still seems too niche.
- Fortition - a less common type of sound change.
- Cluttering - a type of speech disorder. Speech disorder itself is V5, so a specific disorder should really demonstrate its vitality in the article.
- Cyrillization - changing text into the Cyrillic alphabet from another writing system. Another very narrow topic.
Most of these were added by me a long time ago, following SethAllen623's vital articles list. So I'm trying to clean after myself, sort of. How do you feel for their place in the list?
- Support
- As nom. --Makkool (talk) 20:53, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
- This is a very good method, I would probably remove almost all other entries on the list. Support per nominator. The Blue Rider 20:16, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support all. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 10:47, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Nice work, remove all Aurangzebra (talk) 05:22, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:44, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Mixed
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove (or swap) lowly-viewed language articles[edit]
- French Sign Language family - low views and 8 interwikis. Could be swapped with French Sign Language.
- BANZSL (British, Australian and New Zealand Sign Language) - low views and short in length. British Sign Language has its own article, which would be a much better match as vital.
- Suzhou dialect - a dialect of Chinese, seems less vital than the other Chinese variants that are listed.
- Huizhou Chinese - another dialect of Chinese. Only 5 million speakers in China and the article doesn't show how it could be considered vital.
- Madurese language - 4th most spoken language in Indonesia. We list the 3 largest languages and this one doesn't seem remarkable in some way to be considered vital.
- Sukuma language - we list many Bantu languages and this article doesn't show its vitality as well.
- Support
- As nom. --Makkool (talk) 20:12, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Swap first two with French Sign Language and British Sign Language respectively, support remove Suzhou dialect. Neutral on the rest for reasons below. Aurangzebra (talk) 20:35, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 00:34, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Mixed
- The 3 languages you mention here all have a lot more native speakers than some of the other languages we currently list e.g. Bashkir language 5, Nuosu language 5, Yakut language 5, Sardinian language 5, the list goes on and on. Maybe some of these other languages have some unique linguistic properties or regional importance which is why they are included here but I don't think it's fair to remove these languages with 5-8 million speakers when there are so many languages we include with 1 million speakers or less. The languages section probably needs a more concerted overhaul. Aurangzebra (talk) 05:41, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- The languages you mention have an official or some other legal status in their respective countries or country subdivisions, which has been the grounds for being included. A lot of the specific languages listing has been my work, and I looked less on speaker numbers or linguistic details (I studied some linguistics in university, but don't have enough knowledge to rely on that). Your suggestion for an in-depth examination sounds great, and I would really like to see more people's views expressed in this section, as it's a subject I find interesting. --Makkool (talk) 08:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yea that's fair. I would be fine with removing these at the end of the day but I just want some consistent framework we can apply. For example, we don't list Kabyle language/Tamazight even though it is one of the two official languages of Algeria 3 and has 4 million speakers (maybe it's because we list the parent Berber languages 4? But if that's the case, we also list both Sardinian and its parent Romance languages 4 and other smaller languages and their parents). Aurangzebra (talk) 09:04, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yea that's fair. I would be fine with removing these at the end of the day but I just want some consistent framework we can apply. For example, we don't list Kabyle language/Tamazight even though it is one of the two official languages of Algeria
- The languages you mention have an official or some other legal status in their respective countries or country subdivisions, which has been the grounds for being included. A lot of the specific languages listing has been my work, and I looked less on speaker numbers or linguistic details (I studied some linguistics in university, but don't have enough knowledge to rely on that). Your suggestion for an in-depth examination sounds great, and I would really like to see more people's views expressed in this section, as it's a subject I find interesting. --Makkool (talk) 08:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove lowly-viewed psychology articles[edit]
- Systems psychology - A branch of psychology that seems niche. Rated mid-importance in Wikiproject Psychology.
- Clinical neuroscience - Rated top-importance, but low views. Should probably be moved to Biology and health sciences section rather that Psychology.
- Child psychopathology - Rated top-importance, but low views. Could be an outlier. Psychopathology 5 itself is V5 (and rated just high-importance).
- Gratification - Rated mid-importance. There's other emotions that I would remove before this, but let's start with this one (because of low views).
- Behavioral contagion - Rated mid-importance. The umbrella topic Social contagion 5 is just V5 as well.
- Support
- Oppose
- Mixed
- Discuss
Remove Accidental Death of an Anarchist 5[edit]
No assertion of lasting impact or top importance in field (drama) czar 18:38, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- czar 18:38, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
- 14 interwikis but no claim of significance in the article; it's notable but vital? Why? The article does not suggest it is more than just an average drama, comprable to thousands of others that got some minor acclaim. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:56, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:23, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 20:12, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Not vital Gizza (talk) 23:50, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
- not particularly familiar with this work so will abstain from voting but it appears to be High-Importance over at Wikiproject Theater. Aurangzebra (talk) 20:38, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
- With no justification in either language Wikipedia's article so I don't read that as accurate czar 06:10, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
UPS is the largest courier company in the world by revenue, with annual revenues around US$85 billion in 2020
.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 06:01, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:01, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Lorem ipsum 5[edit]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
- Support
- 58 interwikis, ~3,800 daily views, and ubiquitous in Graphic design 4 and Publishing 3. feminist🚰 (talk) 07:20, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- QuicoleJR (talk) 12:31, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support --Thi (talk) 10:00, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:20, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- How is this vital?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:44, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Another very common food preparation technique.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Homemaking[edit]
It's synonymous with Housekeeping 5. I don't know if that makes it vital or not, but it's a common daily activity for many people.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🚰 (talk) 16:11, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Very common. starship.paint (RUN) 02:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
- Two merge discussions with no consensus, sigh. I guess it is vital - but frankly, I also think it should be merged. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:02, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
Swap Japanese bondage 5 for Sadomasochism[edit]
Japanese bondage/kinbaku/shibari is a rather niche subset or style of bondage that lacks the overall level of societal recognition or importance as most of the other activities listed under the sexuality section, while Sadomasochism, the most well-known part of the BDSM acronym and one with which BDSM as a whole is often confused with (BDSM is an umbrella term that also includes "Bondage and discipline" and "dominance and submission" as these may not necessarily involve pain, which is what sadomasochism refers to specifically) is conspicuously absent.
- Support
- Nom Iostn (talk) 23:50, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Seens reasonable. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:33, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- I was thinking "I'm surprised the latter isn't listed" then realized BDSM 4 is. Still, a fair proposal. feminist🚰 (talk) 02:52, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 03:31, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:08, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. The broader article is more vital. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:54, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Japanese bondage is the most common form of bondage, not that niche. Sadomasochism is already covered by other articles. The Blue Rider 14:10, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Discussion
Add recent culture wars concepts[edit]
Alreedy at V5: Political correctness 5 . --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- The main concept Culture war, which takes a more timeless approach, might be best added first. On the other hand it has some overlap with the already-listed Political polarization 5. Nonetheless, Culture war gets more pageviews... --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:53, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
Add Cancel culture[edit]
40 interwikis; ~1.5k daily views. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Social rejection 5 is already at VA5. "Cancel culture" is merely a new term for that. I'm not convinced this will stay relevant in 5-10 years time. feminist🚰 (talk) 06:13, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose --Thi (talk) 10:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
I would support adding Boycott which is the more general phenomenon. Gizza (talk) 11:24, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Add Woke[edit]
33 interwikis; over 5k(!) daily views. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Too recent and it's more a dictionary term than a concept.
By 2020, many on the political right and some in the center in several Western countries began using the term sarcastically as a pejorative for various leftist and progressive movements and ideologies. In turn, some commentators came to consider woke an offensive term that disparages persons who promote progressive ideas involving identity and race.
I'm not convinced it will stay popular in 5-10 years, especially if it continues to take on a more pejorative meaning. feminist🚰 (talk) 06:16, 14 February 2024 (UTC) - Oppose per above. --Thi (talk) 10:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add Inclusive language[edit]
Just 6 interwikis, ~50 dailys. I guess it will not make the cut, to my surprise. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Gender-neutral language has 26 interwikis. Maybe that would be a better listing? feminist🚰 (talk) 06:20, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
Add Social justice warrior[edit]
25 interwikis, ~300 dailies. Borderline vital? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- As with "woke" – this is recent (albeit maybe a bit less so) and more a dictionary term than a concept. I'd argue that usage of "SJW" has already been on a decline since around 2015. We don't even list Alt-right, which is at least (or had been) a significant political movement in the US rather than just a phrase. I'm not convinced Alt-right should be listed either, but SJW is less significant than that. feminist🚰 (talk) 06:19, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose Just a recent pejorative. --Thi (talk) 10:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
More of a general concept. 8 iwikis, ~150 dailies. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 07:03, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
Add Chilling effect[edit]
More of a general concept. 12 iwikis, ~150 dailies. Maybe could go under psychology? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:50, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 07:04, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- less vital than Coercion 5 or Censorship 4-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 13:49, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Swap: Remove Crédit Agricole 5, add UBS[edit]
I'm not seeing the need to include two French banks at the moment. IMO, the largest private bank in the world
is more important than the world's largest cooperative financial institution
.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:03, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:09, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- We should list a Swiss bank because they are known for bank secrecy. Especially since UBS merged with Credit Suisse, making it even more important as the only big Swiss bank. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:59, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:09, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Hokkien to Vital Sino-Tibetan languages[edit]
We list the language Taiwanese Hokkien 5, but not the wider Hokkien language, which is also spoken by millions in China, Malaysia, Singapore, Philippines, and hundreds of thousands in Indonesia and Cambodia. 25 interwikis.
- Support
- as nominator (and OK with swap). starship.paint (RUN) 14:59, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support as a straight addition currently but if space needs to be made, Taiwanese Hokkien can be swapped out. Gizza (talk) 04:03, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support only swap. We already list 16 varieties of Chinese. One possibility could be Huizhou Chinese which only has 5,4 million speakers, compared to 27,7 million Hokkien speakers in total. I wouldn't swap Taiwanese Hokkien with much more speakers. --Makkool (talk) 12:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
- Swap with Taiwanese Hokkien. How did that even happen? SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:15, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support only swap with Taiwanese Hokkien. EleniXDD※Talk 08:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Labeling theory[edit]
From the article: "The theory was prominent during the 1960s and 1970s, and some modified versions of the theory have developed and are still currently popular." This is included in high school sociology textbooks.
- Support
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 09:03, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
- Mentioned often enough in modern sociological literature too. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:07, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
- I wonder if Self-fulfilling prophecy is a more indicated article to include. The Blue Rider 22:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
Add Taiwanese Mandarin[edit]
The standard variety of language spoken in Taiwan 3.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 09:17, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support only swap. We already list 16 varieties of Chinese. One possibility could be Suzhou dialect which is only spoken around one city in mainland China, compared to Taiwanese Mandarin speakers all around Taiwan. (4,6 million first language, 15 million second language speakers). --Makkool (talk) 12:42, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Color field[edit]
For some reason, this is a respected type of art. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:37, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:37, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- I have no idea why this is so popular but it is. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:59, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:06, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:21, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Megami Tensei and/or Mass Effect[edit]
Megami Tensei is highly popular in Japan, inspired Pokémon's monster collecting mechanic, and spawned the Persona series which has become very well-known internationally. It was one of the earliest video games to have mature storytelling and one of the earliest RPGs to have moral choices and multiple endings.
Mass Effect is one of the most important Western RPG series, created the dialogue wheel, and is noted for its representation of LGBT relationships.
Cadevo86 (talk) 17:09, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- Support Mass Effect. We had a big disucssion and manga/anime and I don't think MT was mentioned; and as someone interested in these topics, subjectively, I think ME is more famous. Interesting oversight, given we list IMHO too many video games already. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:12, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- We need less video game articles. Would reconsider if paired with articles to swap with. Makkool (talk) 20:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Remove Akamai Technologies 5[edit]
An Internet infrastructure operator. It's not insignificant, but I can't say I would put it on a list of the world's top ~250 most important companies. There are many other companies which are just as or more important to the supply chain of their industry which we don't list .
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 09:23, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Basically invented content delivery networks. Without this, we wouldn't be able to do anything that we take for granted on the Internet today: everything from loading a news page with many high-res images to watching HD movies on Netflix with minimal latency. Aurangzebra (talk) 03:42, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add Posture (psychology)[edit]
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:20, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Per discussion a few threads above, likely a V5 topic. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:55, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nom.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:49, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 06:18, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:23, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
A bit above we are discussing adding "The mythical founder of the first Korean kingdom." (3:0 right now). Well, ok, here's the Polish equivalent. 21 interwikis. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:55, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nom.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:54, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
An important subtopic of Teaching, which is proposed above.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:20, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:34, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:23, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Purple Rain (album)[edit]
I know we already have Sign o’ the Times on here, but this is Prince’s best selling album. It’s Prince’s first album to reach number one on the Billboard 200. It’s believed to have sold 25 million copies worldwide. It inspired the Parental Advisory sticker. And all nine of its tracks (including “When Doves Cry”, “Let’s Go Crazy”, and its title track) have their own article. SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:10, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nom. SailorGardevoir (talk) 10:12, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Superstition (song)[edit]
Stevie Wonder’s signature song. We can probably have more funk music than just Sign o’ the Times.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:53, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:11, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Weak oppose though I can be swayed if we clean up the entire list. Not sure we really need a second funk representative especially since Stevie Wonder is already represented by Songs in the Key of Life 5 and though Superstition is a great and well-known track, I don't think it has anything extremely notable about it either on chart performance, RIAA-type certifications, or lasting cultural legacy. That being said, I think we need to rehaul our modern songs list because I think I would add Superstition over (Sittin' On) The Dock of the Bay 5. Both are well-known songs with catchy tunes that a lot of people recognize but I think at this point, Superstition has a more lasting cultural impact. Aurangzebra (talk) 21:53, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add At Folsom Prison (potential swap with I Walk the Line 5)[edit]
Not only does the country section not have any albums, none of the albums that are listed are live albums. If pushed, we can swapped this out with “I Walk the Line”, although personally I think Johnny Cash can have more than one work on here.
- Add only
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 21:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support adding At Folsom Prison per nom. --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Swap
- Oppose
- Discuss
- Neutral but lean oppose for two reasons. First, Johnny Cash's brand of country and folk is fairly unique to the United States and doesn't have the global notability of the other music we include on this list. I think that's also why it makes sense that country currently has zero albums. Though it's definitely changing with the melding between country and pop, country has typically had negligible appeal outside the states. Second, we have other country candidates across both songs/albums that should be considered before we consider a second Johnny Cash work. Off the top of my head, I'd rather include Take Me Home, Country Roads by John Denver which has more interwikis/greater sales outside the United States/more recognizability within the US than either At Folsom Prison or I Walk the Line. I'd also rather include one of Taylor Swift's early country albums which all have 40+ interwikis and global reach (I think at this point, it's clear that her fame and impact have surpassed recentism bias). Aurangzebra (talk) 22:09, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
Add Eye contact 5[edit]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Ditto
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:29, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- QuicoleJR (talk) 13:30, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 14:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:40, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Not too sure about this (only 13 interwikis) but it may be a viable concept at V5.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Positive psychology[edit]
Somewhat recent (started in 1998) but it has now become a major concept in the study of psychology.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:38, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 11:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:39, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Great catch by feminist! starship.paint (RUN) 05:42, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
- What's the difference between the two?? The Blue Rider 14:27, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Indeed. I think they need a merge discussion. If there is a difference, it is not clear from the article. There is a hatnote that says "This article is about specific discriminatory actions and processes. For the broader concept, see Racism." yet I fail to see the difference. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:26, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- @The Blue Rider And done: Talk:Racism#Merge_from_Racial_discrimination. Let's see if anyone can answer your question. I can't. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 13:30, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- I interpret racism to be the ideology and racial discrimination to be the implementation of these racist ideas in the real world. I think they should be two separate articles but I agree that from the way both articles are written, it is extremely confusing. Aurangzebra (talk) 04:04, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
Add Scientific racism[edit]
A practice which has led to major implications, such as the policies of the Nazi Party.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 09:48, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Similar to the topics I proposed a while ago that do not seem to be passing; all affected millions negatively. Sadly vital. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:48, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support --Thi (talk) 10:14, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:39, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
This is probably somewhat weaker than #Add Crying or #Add Laughter above, but should still be appropriate for V5.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:02, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:10, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- starship.paint (RUN) 15:18, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Should be listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:22, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Aaargh. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:49, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- \(°〇°)/ Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 22:41, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Some overlap with Happiness 3 but at V5 it should be listed.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:15, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:21, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- A joyful idea indeed. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:53, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:40, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Quality of life[edit]
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 13:21, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Important for all. starship.paint (RUN) 15:02, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Obviously. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Major component for welfare states. The Blue Rider 13:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Wish mine was better ◔_◔ Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 22:42, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:46, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Place under Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Level/5/Society_and_social_sciences/Social_studies#Emotions_and_traits
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- 52 interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 01:17, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:40, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Product (business)[edit]
The outcome of a process. Do I have to explain this further?
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:10, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Subtopics of Management 3[edit]
Add Property management[edit]
Place under Management 3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Asset management[edit]
Place under Management 3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:55, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support but disagree with placing it as a subtopic of management, which in its default and common meaning refers to managing people. Asset management is a subtopic of corporate finance (a key service that many banks and other financial institutions perform around the world). Gizza (talk) 23:53, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:48, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Customer relationship management[edit]
Place under Management 3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:56, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support - to have companies like Oracle Corporation 5 who mainly sell CRM software as a company listed but not the overarching concept itself is wrong. Gizza (talk) 01:43, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Enterprise resource planning[edit]
Place either under Resource 5 or Management 3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:58, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Human resource management[edit]
Place either under Resource 5 or Management 3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:58, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Knowledge management[edit]
Place under Management 3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Library and information science[edit]
Place under Education on the Culture page?
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:00, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Wanted to propose this myself a few weeks back and completely forgot so thanks for this (though I think the page should just be renamed to library science). Aurangzebra (talk) 06:49, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Risk management 5[edit]
Place under Management 3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:03, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 02:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 23:49, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Systems management[edit]
Can be under Management 3 at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics, can be under Technology
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Commercial property[edit]
The concept of "real estate developed for profit" is increasingly common around the world.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:12, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Real property[edit]
One of the few major types of Property 3
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:13, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Personal property[edit]
ditto
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:15, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:11, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Business model[edit]
Place under Business: General at Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Politics and economics
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:16, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:40, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:11, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Very important. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:02, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Work of art[edit]
Place under Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Arts#General? I think the general concept of an artwork is vital at this level.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:16, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 13:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Decision-making[edit]
Compare Problem solving 5 (although this is more of a psychology topic rather than a technology one).
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:24, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:41, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Why is this not listed? Maybe place this under Information 4 in Social studies
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- How is this not listed? starship.paint (RUN) 15:01, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:41, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Yes. J947 ‡ edits 09:21, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- I ask questions every day. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:17, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- I question why this isn't listed. Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 22:43, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:13, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Place under Politics and government maybe?
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:51, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Obviously. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:20, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 14:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Personal finance[edit]
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:53, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:14, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Consumer behaviour[edit]
Place either under Psychology or Business
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:05, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:15, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Weak oppose, would prefer to add behavioral economics instead since it's more broad. The Blue Rider 13:22, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Place under Banking and financing
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:15, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Important concept in business. starship.paint (RUN) 01:20, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:16, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
The reason why Insurance 3 exists. Can plausibly be at V4. Place this under Economics.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Support, but I think it would be better under Everyday Life than Economics. It is not a strictly economic term, it is part of all areas of life. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:18, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Well, yeah, it's part of all areas of life in the same way Oxygen 3 and Curiosity 4 are, but that alone doesn't mean it should be placed under Everyday life. Risk guides decision-making, and judging the level of risk to make a choice or another is primarily an economics topic with some psychology involved. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:59, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Well, yeah, it's part of all areas of life in the same way Oxygen
- Risk (game) 5 but not Risk? starship.paint (RUN) 01:19, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:17, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Transactions[edit]
Add Broker[edit]
A major type of business which facilitates all sorts of transactions. Place under Business.
- Support
- Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:28, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:18, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Law of agency[edit]
The concept of an "agent" should be vital
- Support
- Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:28, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Financial transaction[edit]
A major part of everyday life.
- Support
- Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:18, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Commission (remuneration)[edit]
The money gained by platforms such as Uber 5, Airbnb 5, or Apple Inc. 4's App Store (Apple) when facilitating transactions between a seller and a buyer. Apple in particular got into quite a lot of controversy recently with the EU with regards to how much commission it charges software developers.
- Support
- Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Barter[edit]
A historically important means of Trade 2 which remains common in less-developed societies.
- Support
- Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:34, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- An important concept (even if anthropologists have shown that this doesn't really happen). SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- One of economic anthropology's insights is that barter is historically rare. Non-market exchange is usually in the form of a gift economy. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 00:49, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:18, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add Pawnbroker[edit]
Pawn shops are a common type of business.
- Support
- Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Market economy[edit]
An economic system which describes much of the world since the end of the Cold War.
- Support
- Nom. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:36, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:40, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Social relation[edit]
Social interaction redirects here. Different social interactions combine to form a Social network 4. I think it's an important concept in Social studies.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Culinary traditions of African-Americans.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:28, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 09:45, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:45, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:19, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Inspired by the Mad scientist nomination above. A villain is a very common stock character in almost every story.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:17, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:49, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:44, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- An antagonist is not necessarily a villain. Also, Hero 5 is vital. starship.paint (RUN) 01:14, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:49, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 20:49, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- User:Laukku, what a difference a year makes.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:21, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Already attempted here.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:39, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
A genre of fiction written by women for women featuring same-sex relationships dating back to the 1970s. 1485 daily views last year, 44 interwikis.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:22, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:41, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- --EleniXDD※Talk 06:51, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
- Should we also nominate its counterpart, Yuri (genre)? Vileplume (talk) 01:17, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
Place this under Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/4/Everyday life#Stages of life. Surprising omission imo.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:53, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:50, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- ... wasted on the young. Key stage of life. starship.paint (RUN) 12:49, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support --Makkool (talk) 21:36, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Whereas Teenager redirects to Adolescence, Youth is considered notably different. Not opposed to a redirect though.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:25, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Redundant to Adolescence 3 IMO. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:50, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Subtopics of Construction 3[edit]
Add Building material[edit]
Works well as an overview article.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:23, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:49, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add General contractor[edit]
A common entity in the process of construction
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:49, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Subcontractor[edit]
Another common entity involved in construction
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:49, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Real estate development[edit]
One of the most common processes around the world.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:23, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:46, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:49, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Swap Metallica (album) 5 with Master of Puppets (and maybe Enter Sandman)[edit]
It might be a little hypocritical to advocate this while also pushing for the inclusion of Prince’s Purple Rain album, but while I think that album is just as vital as Sign o’ the Times, I don’t feel the same way regarding Metallica’s self-titled album. Yes, it made Metallica one of the biggest bands on the planet, but Master of Puppets is not only held to be their greatest album, it’s also held to be one of the greatest metal albums of all time, especially in the realm of extreme metal. Maybe we can also add “Enter Sandman” as a compromise?
- Support
- Support swap with Master of Puppets only. SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:59, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support swap, and addition of "Enter Sandman". Easily Metallica's most vital album (and Enter Sandman is a good replacement for the removed Black Album) --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support addition --Thi (talk) 10:17, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Not really convinced Master of Puppets is more vital than the Black Album as a cultural landmark. Iostn (talk) 23:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Not only critically acclaimed, it’s usually held to be one of the first rock operas.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:11, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support --Makkool (talk) 19:40, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Iostn (talk) 23:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Consumption (economics) 5[edit]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A major concept within economics, and the counterpart to Investment 4.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 07:55, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 09:09, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Basic for economics. starship.paint (RUN) 12:48, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Basic. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:59, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. Major oversight. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:48, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 20:36, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Can someone explain to me why despite being a culture well-known for their religious reverence towards cats, we don’t have the Ancient Egyptian Goddess of Cats on here?
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 23:16, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Iostn (talk) 23:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Given the company... Apep 5? starship.paint (RUN) 08:49, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Meow! The Blue Rider 20:52, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Seems like a minor goddess and I am a cat person (who even turned around the Catwoman removal discussion).-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Definitely not an accurate statement, one of the main deities of Egyptian mythology 4. The Blue Rider 19:13, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Definitely not an accurate statement, one of the main deities of Egyptian mythology
- Discuss
Right now, we only have two articles listed under African mythological figures. I think we can afford having at least one or two more. The Orishas are the de facto pantheon of Santería, Candomblé, and the original Yoruba religion. (I know that they’re just spirits who are only worshipped like gods due to how distant the actual one is.) If possible, I would like to nominate one of the Orishas by themselves. Out of all of them, I think Shango is the most well-known. NOTE: Proposal now includes Oshun, per Makkool.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:52, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support. If we would add Shango, then Oshun would warrant a place as well as a female Orisha (and her article states that "Oshun is one of the most popular and venerated Orishas"). --Makkool (talk) 06:43, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Iostn (talk) 23:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Hand-to-hand combat[edit]
One of the most ancient forms of fighting. Place this in War and military?
- Support
- As nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:42, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Probably. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:55, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 05:39, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:38, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 08:01, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 09:59, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:44, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
I am sure we can come up with good puns, but it is a vital concept at V5 either way. Well, I possibly. Just 4 interwikis. Discuss? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:55, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nom. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:55, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- I think this is too vague, unfortunately, and that reflects in the lwo interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 05:39, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per Starship. The same can be said about Importance. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:27, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per Starship. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:54, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Ironically, vitality is not vital. It is also not about vitality as our project uses the word. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:09, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add Appalachian Spring[edit]
Probably the most famous ballet to come from the United States. Composed by Aaron Copland 4, choreographed by Martha Graham 4, had sets designed by Isamu Noguchi 5, won Pulitzer Prize for Music.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 07:38, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support --Makkool (talk) 07:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
3,034 daily views last year, #4 on {{Love sidebar}}.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
A major theory in economics and sociology.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 15:44, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Important theory for Economic liberalism 5. The Blue Rider 19:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:52, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Even lower pageviews than Old Folks at Home, and in any case the selection for folk songs is definitely US-centric as currently stands.
- Support
- As nom. Iostn (talk) 23:24, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support. I probably would have been neutral or even oppose the removal of “My Old Kentucky Home” had you not revealed that it has less pageviews than “Old Folk At Home”. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:44, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- This change helps with systemic bias. starship.paint (RUN) 01:49, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. --Makkool (talk) 07:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
- I think that I should point out that we have two subsections in the specific musical works section: traditional and folk. Although I’m the one who move the Stephen Foster’s songs from traditional to folk (in hindsight, they probably should have been put under pop, but the guy even predates Tin Pan Alley), I think the folk subsection is more for what is called contemporary folk music. If we end up swapping these songs out, both Danny Boy and Mo Li Hua are probably going to be placed under traditional, which is where the actual folk somgs are located. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:44, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
The article largely talks about how it’s one of the greatest jazz albums ever made. It’s rated high on WikiProject Jazz, and as of this writing rateyourmusic has it as #14 on their overall album charts.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 06:40, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- I say this as a jazz fan but it is extremely difficult for jazz albums to achieve a level of vitality similar to the other albums in different genres we list. We list Kind of Blue 4 because it had extraordinary cross-genre appeal and we also list A Love Supreme 5 because it is universally regarded as a top 3 jazz album of all time. I would bet most people in general wouldn't know Charles Mingus as compared to Miles Davis or John Coltrane and even jazz fans wouldn't be able to name this album. Even out of Mingus' discography, I would choose Mingus Ah Um over this since it is also considered one of the greatest jazz albums of all time and has two tracks with their own Wikipedia articles (including the well-known political protest track Fables of Faubus) as opposed to 0 on The Black Saint. Aurangzebra (talk) 07:20, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Aurangzebra. I think it would make sense to list more songs than albums from the jazz genre. Jazz standard is not yet a vital article even. --Makkool (talk) 07:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oh man, didn't even notice that. Would support an add for Jazz standard. Aurangzebra (talk) 08:36, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 13:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
The opposite of Altruism 4, hedonism is the prioritization of Pleasure 4 in one's life. 70 interwikis, 2,470 daily views last year.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:29, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- The world has been in (semi-)hedonistic society for quite some decades. The Blue Rider 17:25, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:13, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 09:59, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Usually held to be the magnum opus for Serge Gainsbourg 4. Other than Trans Europa Express (which has an English version) and the Miles Davis albums (which are instrumentals), all of the albums listed are in English. Of all the non-English albums we have articles for, this is probably the most vital.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 00:11, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support --Makkool (talk) 21:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
These two song are stated in the intro of jazz standard to be one of the most covered songs of all time. Admittedly, the “Stardust” article does a much better job explaining its vitality than “Caravan”’s article.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:04, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support --Makkool (talk) 21:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add King of the Delta Blues Singers, Anthology of American Folk Music, and/or A Christmas Gift for You from Phil Spector[edit]
I also noticed that we don’t have any compilation albums on here as well. Now, unlike live albums, I don’t think it’s necessary to have any compilations on here. That said, I do feel like that these three are at least important enough to worth discussion on including to this list.
First, we got King of the Delta Blues Singers by Robert Johnson 4. For a lot of people like Bob Dylan 4, Keith Richards 5, Robert Plant 5, and Eric Clapton 5 this was the first time they’ve heard of Johnson, and boy did it changed their lives forever. I think it’s safe to say rock would’ve been a completely different beast if this album has not been released.
The next album is usually held to help fuel the American folk music revival scene. A lot of folk musicians are believed to be inspired by this album, and a lot of musicians on this compilation will later see their careers revived. Includes recordings by Carter Family 5, Charley Patton 5, Blind Lemon Jefferson 5, and Uncle Dave Macon 5.
The last one is admittedly the weakest of the three. I’m only mentioning this because I believe that this is usually held to be the greatest Christmas album ever made. A fine example of the Wall of Sound championed by Phil Spector 5. Has very nice renditions of “Frosty the Snowman”, “Sleigh Ride”, and “I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus” by The Ronettes 5, and brought us “Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)”.
- Add King of the Delta Blues Singers
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 05:40, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Add Anthology of American Folk Music
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 04:32, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Add A Christmas Gift for You from Phil Spector
- Oppose
- All have 6 interwikis, suggesting lack of cross-cultural signficance. starship.paint (RUN) 08:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per above. Also, if these are to be added only to include compilation albums, we should hold for now. --Makkool (talk) 21:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add Customer service[edit]
A major component of the Retail 3 industry.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:03, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:10, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:34, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:55, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:50, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Technical support[edit]
A major component of Customer service (nominated above) in relation to products and services which consumers do not know how to use.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Romantic comedy[edit]
Feels like an omission when we list other forms of Comedy 4 such as Vaudeville 5, Sitcom 4, Commedia dell'arte 4, Clown 4, and Cabaret 5. 44 interwikis, 1,217 daily views.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:29, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Good catch, notable enough subgenre with cultural significance. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:33, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:14, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 12:51, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:27, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 01:23, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Cold War strategies[edit]
There were three main stratigies applied by the US during the Cold War, détente, containment and rollback. The Blue Rider 
12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- @The Blue Rider: wouldn't these be better placed in "History?" Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:26, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hm, not really even though they became popular they are still used nowadays. The Blue Rider 15:02, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hm, not really even though they became popular they are still used nowadays. The Blue Rider
Add détente[edit]
Détente is a strategy aimed at relaxing tensions between two countries. It was first utilized by the Kennedy administration during the Cuban Missile Crisis 4, which ultimately led to the establishment of the red telephone. This approach was further employed by Richard Nixon, resulting in the negotiation of several important treaties, including the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and the Helsinki Accords (both should also be added). Détente played a crucial role in bringing an end to the Vietnam War and contributed to the improvement of relations between the US and China, ultimately leading to China's entrance into the United Nations. The Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:08, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add containment[edit]
Containment was a strategy aimed at halting the spread of communism, largely driven by the belief in the domino theory (which should also be added). With the fall of China, Cuba, and other nations to communism, Harry Truman, through his Truman Doctrine 5, initiated interventions in multiple countries that were on the brink of succumbing to communism. These interventions included the Greek Civil War 5, the Korean War 4, the Vietnam War 4, Guatemalan Civil War 5, among others. The Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:08, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add rollback[edit]
The final strategy, and the most aggressive one, involved actively intervening in communist countries with the aim of changing their regimes. This approach was primarily utilized by Reagan and the Bushes administrations. It resulted in interventions such as the Bay of Pigs Invasion 5, support for the Contras in Nicaragua, the United States invasion of Grenada 5, and more recently, the United States invasion of Afghanistan. The Blue Rider 13:00, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 12:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:08, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add record label[edit]
This is the main way the recording part of the Music industry 4 is organized.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 09:49, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:49, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 16:21, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume (talk) 00:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:25, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Film studio[edit]
Similar to the Record label nomination above.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 16:21, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:18, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 20:16, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:43, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:25, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 10:00, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Paramount Pictures[edit]
One of the major movie studios.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:54, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
The namesake for Independent music 5.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 19:58, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support since most artists begin their carrers through it. The Blue Rider 20:33, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Between Record label and Independent music 5, I'm not seeing the need to list their intersection especially since both are only V5. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:07, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add Imperial examination[edit]
For centuries, the imperial examination system profoundly influenced Imperial China's society, determining social status and governance. It provided a path for social advancement based on merit. It legitimized the ruling dynasty, ensured political stability, and reinforced cultural norms through its emphasis on Confucian ideology. However, it perpetuated gender inequality by excluding women. And was apperently important for Chinese mythology (see Imperial examination in Chinese mythology). All the elite of Imperial China was a jinshi, the highest degree of the exam. In essence, the imperial examination system shaped Chinese society, governance, and culture, leaving a lasting impact on its civilization. The Blue Rider 20:29, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 20:29, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:32, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:32, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- This feels VA5-worthy based on vibes. I consider this to be more of a History topic however. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:04, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
- @Feminist: You seem to take an interest on East Asia as well, so I would appreciate your input, be it positive or negative! Thank you. The Blue Rider 14:59, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Well, I very much disliked the subject of History of China 4 at school. Where would you put it on the list? It feels more like a history topic to me. feminist🩸 (talk) 15:05, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, such an interesting history, for me at least. What are your countries/regions of interest then? I would put it in the Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Culture's Education section. The Blue Rider 15:19, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oh, such an interesting history, for me at least. What are your countries/regions of interest then? I would put it in the Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/Society and social sciences/Culture's Education section. The Blue Rider
- Well, I very much disliked the subject of History of China
Add United Artists[edit]
Founded by D. W. Griffith 4, Charlie Chaplin 3, Mary Pickford 4, and Douglas Fairbanks 5, this used to be one of the major studios.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 20:36, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- I don't think we should list any American film studios beyond the current major studios. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:06, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add Tom's Diner[edit]
This song played a huge part in the development of the MP3.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:41, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Not vital enough as a song --Makkool (talk) 21:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Niche trivia in the development of Digital audio. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:59, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
- Huh? Isn't MP3 a format for audio? The Blue Rider 00:58, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- The song was used for testing digital compression. SailorGardevoir (talk) 01:28, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
Remove Tuvan language 5[edit]
The Siberian Turkic language family has c. 750k-1m speakers, so Yakut should cover it well. Tuvan’s native speakers are at ~250k. No, these kinds of languages are not vital at V5. Vileplume (talk) 01:03, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nom. Vileplume (talk) 01:03, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. In general, we really need to clean up the languages section. As I mention in one of the threads above, we list languages with 200k speakers and don't list some with 4+ million. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:08, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- I also disagree with every country’s official languages being vital. What else makes languages like Nauruan language 5, Tuvaluan language 5, etc. vital at V5? Vileplume (talk) 01:16, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- You mentioned here that we could regularly have some subsection for focused work. That would be fun to do for languages for example. There are languages with no speakers but that are culturally important like Syriac language 5 and languages with millions of speakers like Chhattisgarhi language 5 that doesn't seem to have anything else significant about them. It would be good to hear more people's opinions on what to include and on what basis. --Makkool (talk) 12:49, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- I also disagree with every country’s official languages being vital. What else makes languages like Nauruan language
- Support per nom. --Makkool (talk) 17:28, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:56, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discussion
Subscriptions are a big and growing thing in business.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:04, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:34, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
A major thing in different disciplines.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:19, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 08:31, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- nom Aurangzebra (talk) 08:58, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 21:28, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- ERROR: unable to load support message QuicoleJR (talk) 23:01, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 20:30, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Hanna-Barbera[edit]
Although we do have William Hanna 5 and Joseph Barbera 5 on here along with some shows, I still think we need the company. They’re responsible for a large chunk of American TV animation (and for some periods, most of it).
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 08:23, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Swap Crazy in Love 5 with Hey Ya![edit]
I will admit, I’ve been going overboard with my specific musical works suggestion, so this is going to be my last one for the time being. It is sort of weird to nominate something that’s not representative of the artist usual work (of Outkast’s possible vital works that are, you know, hip-hop, it’s either “B.O.B” or Aquemini), but this song is still being praised to high-heaven as being one of the greatest songs ever made. It was already noticeable for being the youngest song to appear on the Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Songs of All Time when it was ranked at #182; the newest version has this at #10. To make up for my lack of swaps in my proposals, I volunteer “Crazy in Love” for removal, as that song came out the same year as this.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 11:25, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support --Makkool (talk) 21:33, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
- What makes Hey Ya! more vital than B.O.B or Ms. Jackson? The Blue Rider 15:00, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Again, the massive amount of praise it gets compared to those songs. I will say though that it does look like "B.O.B" is getting more critical acclaim as time goes on. SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:20, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
A major concept in sociology, one that is commonly the subject of news coverage. Maybe place under Social norm 4 in Sociology?
- Support
- feminist🩸 (talk) 11:50, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:05, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:10, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vital. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:22, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- Should be listed, now if only the news would shut up about them. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:05, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 09:59, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:21, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Patriarchy[edit]
Seems like an obvious oversight, an extremely widespread social system. The Blue Rider 20:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 20:18, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 21:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
- I hesitate to agree that "an extremely widespread social system" is automatically grounds for vitality inclusion. Patriarchy is a term that can be applied to many social systems, but it's one of many terms; it's similar to, say, Capitalism 3 or Democracy 3 in this regard. Not all such terms which can be used to describe "extremely widespread" phenomena are vital. But in any case, patriarchy is a major concept in both anthropology and sociology which is suitable for V5. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:43, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 09:08, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Important. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 00:34, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume (talk) 14:31, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add By-product[edit]
A common concept in manufacturing and chemistry.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 07:00, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 09:09, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:40, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:57, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Hoax to Interpersonal relations[edit]
Relevant to politics, at least.
- Support
- as nom. starship.paint (RUN) 10:08, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
- Originally proposed by LaukkuTheGreit. starship.paint (RUN) 12:15, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
Add Cheating to Interpersonal relations[edit]
A prevalent type of action that is here to stay.
- Support
- as nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:23, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- At first I thought this referred to cheating in relationships, but that article is entitled Infidelity 4. In any case, this is an easy support. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:32, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per feminist. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 00:33, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Biographical film[edit]
Biopics are a major film genre. Biography 4, a parent topic, is at V4.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 01:49, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:43, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:59, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:42, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:08, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 02:57, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add James Bond[edit]
Pretty famous series. Note that this is different from James Bond (literary character) 4, who is at V4. But the series should be V5 at least. Or perhaps a swap can be considered later - I have trouble deciding what is more vital (the character or the series). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:03, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nom. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:03, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:53, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:19, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support either add or swap with the character per TompaDompa. Aurangzebra (talk) 21:35, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support addition. Oppose swap. Don’t forget that James Bond the character is a level 4 article. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:23, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 12:51, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:25, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 05:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
- I don't think we should list the franchise and character separately, and I think the inclusion of the character over the franchise is a rather obvious error. I would unreservedly support a swap. TompaDompa (talk) 13:34, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
Parent topic to Public policy 4.
- Support
- As nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 16:53, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:21, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- The Blue Rider 14:57, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Most policies are implemented by governments, so it is right for Public policy 4 to be at a higher level than Policy. However, thinks like "staff policy" and "insurance policy" exist and are common. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Thomas Malthus's magnum opus, continues to shape economic theory and social policy; from the decay of the English Poor Laws, to the works and ideas of important philosophers and economists, such as David Ricardo 4 and Adam Smith 3. His ideas, Malthusianism 5, that come from the book, explore the relationship between population growth and resources, has influenced debates on birth control, income distribution, and sustainable development. Malthus's insights remain relevant today, informing discussions on global challenges like climate change and poverty alleviation. The Blue Rider 18:35, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 18:35, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- V5 importance, although overlap with V5 Malthusianism is significant. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:01, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Rechtsstaat[edit]
The Rechtsstaat, originating in German Jurisprudence 4, embodies principles of legal certainty, equality before the law, and protection of individual rights. This principle depends on the Separation of powers 4, ensuring Judicial independence 5 and impartiality. It emphasizes the rule of law as a safeguard against arbitrary government actions, ensuring that legal processes are transparent, predictable, and fair. The doctrine has influenced constitutionalism and legal theory globally, contributing to the development of democratic governance and the protection of human rights in diverse countries
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 14:56, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
A genre of Chinese fiction that has existed for centuries, has cross-cultural appeal, and has been adapted to virtually every medium.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 18:21, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- With Jin Yong 4 (rightly) at V4, the genre of his works should be listed. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:51, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- per above. Good balance for systemic bias. starship.paint (RUN) 11:58, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:55, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Market fundamentalism 5[edit]
A mostly negative term that overlaps with Neoliberalism 5. I personally have not heard this one in a while.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 19:08, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:56, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Music genre proposals[edit]
Swap Outsider music 5 for Mandopop[edit]
I believe there was some discussion on "outsider musicians" on the people section, and as someone who is at least somewhat familiar with the topic, I don't think its vital as it a somewhat niche and often-controversial term. The definition is rather murky and it can refer to people with mental illnesses, self-taught musicians, ir even sometimes works from "established" musicians (Trout Mask Replica is mentioned in the article). I think listing the more common term Outsider art 4 alone is a better term. As for Mandopop, we already list J-pop 5 and K-pop 5 so alongside it I think them I think it also makes sense to list a representative for popular music in the PRC, until recently the most populous country in the world (there is also C-pop, but I believe that term was only termed in correlation to the other two, whereas Mandopop has more interwikis and pageviews).
- Support
- Nom Iostn (talk) 23:48, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support removal. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:46, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support removal per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:01, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Swap with Cantopop, per below. SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Swap with Cantopop instead Makkool (talk) 15:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Add Cantopop instead, which has higher page views than Mandopop. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:46, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Add Cantopop per feminist. Mandopop being only named after Cantopop existed showed how Cantopop had significantly spread cross culturally first. starship.paint (RUN) 12:01, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Swap Muzak 5 for Latin pop[edit]
Muzak seems rather redundant when we already list Background music 5, Easy listening 5 and Lounge music 5, so I think the former brand name needs to go. Latin pop sort of works as an answer to K-pop/J-pop/Mandopop even if it doesn't exactly mean "Spanish-language pop", but even so "J-pop" isn't synonymous with "Japanese popular music" et al, and "Latin" here covers a vast region.
- Support
- Nom Iostn (talk) 23:48, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:10, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support swap: background music already covers Muzak/elevator music well. Makkool (talk) 15:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Swap Progressive music 5 for Progressive rock[edit]
I assume "progressive music" is here as an attempt to use an umbrella term that includes progressive rock, but as a term it doesn't even refer so much to any specific style as it does various subgenres with "progressive" in the name. The only other "progressive" genres that are really linked to prog rock are Progressive metal (which makes sense given that metal is pretty directly derived from rock), progressive pop and maybe Progressive soul, although that ones a lot less direct. In any case, all three of those are much less vital or well-known as progressive rock, which has far higher pageviews and interwikis than all of them or the umbrella page, and is one of the most significant rock genres.
- Support
- Nom Iostn (talk) 23:48, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:10, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Prog rock is definitely the most vital type of prog. Makkool (talk) 15:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Prosthetic makeup[edit]
This is important enough for an Academy Award to be dedicated to it.
- Support
- Oppose
- Don't really have a great explanation for why I oppose besides the fact that this just seems much less important than the other film topics we currently list. Prosthetic makeup feels like a part of the movie making experience in the same way that craft service is: it is ubiquitous in movie productions but not necessarily a V5-vital topic. And the Academy Award category is for makeup/Cosmetics 4 in general, not just prosthetic makeup. Aurangzebra (talk) 11:08, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- I guess the main difference is that the audience can see prosthetic makeup as it is applied, whereas craft service is more of a backstage thing that readers are less likely to care about. But point taken regarding this being relatively niche among film topics compared to what we currently list. feminist🩸 (talk) 11:48, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add Corporal punishment[edit]
A historically common form of Punishment 4 which persists in some countries. Compare Capital punishment 4, which is at V4.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 06:42, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:05, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 14:03, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Foreshadowing[edit]
An essential part of storytelling, used in a majority of all stories.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:15, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Iostn (talk) 21:47, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 14:00, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Add Lebensraum[edit]
Lebensraum, a geopolitical concept coined by Friedrich Ratzel, that posits that territories are living organisms and, as so, need to expand in order to provide for their population. This idea was notably adopted and distorted by the Nazi Party during World War II to justify their aggressive expansionist policies. Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime used the concept of Lebensraum to justify their invasions and annexations of neighboring territories, particularly in Eastern Europe, under the pretext of securing land for the German people. This expansionist ideology was a key component of Nazi propaganda and played a significant role in shaping the course of World War II. The Blue Rider 17:57, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove New York Public Library 5 and Boston Public Library 5[edit]
I don't think we need any libraries that are not national libraries at this level. I think Library of Congress is sufficient for US libraries. Interstellarity (talk) 01:13, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support NYPL
- Interstellarity (talk) 01:13, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support BPL
- Interstellarity (talk) 01:13, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Only the fifth largest library in the US. Possible swap for Shanghai Library? Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 01:46, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose NYPL
- Strong oppose. We should have two American libraries, and it is the world’s fourth largest at 55 million catalogued items. Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 01:46, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- @OhnoitsvileplumeXD: Different sources have different criteria regarding how big libraries are. NYPL is the second biggest by catalog size, but BPL is the largest by volumes held. I think this is something we should consider when deciding what to remove an add. Interstellarity (talk) 13:02, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Interstellarity: I was just going off List of largest libraries, where only the catalogue size is listed. I still see the NYPL as more vital, as it has double the interwikis and triple the daily views. Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 13:52, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- @OhnoitsvileplumeXD: I found these articles at here and here. One article has the NYPL as larger and the other has BPL as larger, but if you still think NYPL is more vital, I’ll respect your opinion on that. Interstellarity (talk) 14:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- @Interstellarity: I was just going off List of largest libraries, where only the catalogue size is listed. I still see the NYPL as more vital, as it has double the interwikis and triple the daily views. Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 13:52, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- @OhnoitsvileplumeXD: Different sources have different criteria regarding how big libraries are. NYPL is the second biggest by catalog size, but BPL is the largest by volumes held. I think this is something we should consider when deciding what to remove an add. Interstellarity (talk) 13:02, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose BPL
- Discussion
A very common concept, albeit somewhat dicdef. Should be V5.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:54, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Do you guys ever think about dying?[edit]
Add Deathcare[edit]
An important healthcare industry. Only 1 interwiki and 13 daily views last year – I'm surprised, but I guess it's because the term "deathcare" is more of an American concept. Is there something I'm missing here?
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Funeral home[edit]
A common business worldwide, more important than e.g. Motel 5 I'd say.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:11, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Morgue[edit]
An important type of facility which helps preserve bodies.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:41, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:10, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 13:44, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Columbarium[edit]
The modern equivalent to Mausoleum 5.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:06, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 13:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Cadaver[edit]
A dead human body, also known as a corpse. Can be used by students and scientists to study anatomy and diseases, and also has a major role in popular culture. Probably more of a medicine/biology topic but since I'm doing a bulk nomination I'll place it here anyway.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:43, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:41, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Put in Medicine. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:13, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 13:45, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:35, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Crisis[edit]
A common broad concept denoting situations where a person or a group of people face psychological stress. This can go under Psychology, or it can go under Society (next to Disaster 5).
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 07:47, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:40, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:02, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Existential crisis[edit]
Why do we live? An existential crisis is a feeling that most people will experience at some point in their life. Hugely influential in society and culture.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
I must go punch that baby[edit]
Add Juvenile delinquency[edit]
Society reacts differently to people committing crimes when they are underage. It's an important area in Criminology 4 with influences from the family environment and peers, and differences in how they are tried (e.g. Juvenile court) and punished (e.g. juvenile homes rather than prisons) to reflect their different level of cognitive development.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:30, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:13, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Age of criminal responsibility[edit]
The age one must be in order to be capable of committing an offence. If one is too young, one is presumed to not be able to tell whether something should be wrong or not. An important concept comparable to, say, Age of consent 4.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:30, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Age of majority and Minor (law)[edit]
At what age do you become an adult? Different societies think differently on this, but it's usually somewhere between 18 and 21. An important concept which relates to whether you can drink, consent to sexual activity, and be liable for criminal acts (see nomination above).
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:30, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:20, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Strike (attack)[edit]
Striking is the primary way Hand-to-hand combat (nominated above) is conducted, but it should be listed separately because variations of strikes are also employed in Martial arts 3 and combat sports.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:27, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Punch (combat)[edit]
A strike (nominated above) conducted with the fist. It is used in most martial arts and combat sports, and is the only type of offensive technique allowed in Boxing 4.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:27, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:38, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Kick[edit]
A strike (nominated above) using the leg. Used in many forms of martial arts, as well as in self-defense applications.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:27, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. The Blue Rider 10:38, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Self-defense[edit]
A very common practice.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:29, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 09:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Makes sense. QuicoleJR (talk) 11:54, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:14, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:36, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Party time![edit]
Remove Mint julep[edit]
Not on the same pair as, say, sex on the beach, cosmopolitan, margarita, piña colada. Not a widely drank cocktail, since its too contained in Southern United States. Only 17 interwikis links.
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Tennessee whiskey[edit]
Too american centric, especially when we already list American whiskey 5. According to the article, it is legally defined as Bourbon whiskey 5 in some international trade agreemeents, so the overlap is big. Not a major type of whiskey in general; only 14 interwikis links.
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 02:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:38, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 10:04, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Canadian whiskey[edit]
Not a major type of whiskey in any measure, not on the same pair as, say, Irish whiskey 5, Bourbon whiskey 5 nor Scotch whisky 5. Only 13 interwiki links.
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 02:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:39, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 10:05, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove White Russian (cocktail)[edit]
Not on the same pair as, say, sex on the beach, cosmopolitan, margarita, piña colada. Only 23 interwiki links.
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 13:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Punch (drink)[edit]
Widely drank worldwide, with an history that dates back to colonial times. 47 interwiki links.
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 02:28, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:40, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 10:05, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Caipirinha[edit]
Brazilian cocktail that its part of the cultural identity of the country. 39 interwiki links.
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 11:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Sangria[edit]
Extremely famous drink in Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries, so signficant that its part of the cultural identities. 50 interwiki links.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Swap: Add The Rose of Versailles, remove Cardcaptor Sakura 5[edit]
The former is decades older and has better claims of vitality, and they have sold a similar amount. Cardcaptor Sakura feels a somewhat questionable inclusion to me, seeming not quite popular/acclaimed/influential/famous enough to be preferred over something like Berserk (manga) or even Monster (manga) (which are scored into the top 10 of various manga sites by their users).
(I initially thought about replacing Cardcaptor with Berserk but eventually decided on a shoujo-shoujo swap, and I'm wondering a bit whether some of Berserk's vitality claims might be too inspired by the 2021 death of its author.)
- Support
- As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 18:16, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:26, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
No votes in a long time. If this proposal goes nowhere I may propose a swap with Berserk (manga) instead.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Some world's fairs[edit]
Add Great Exhibition[edit]
Heralded within the newly constructed The Crystal Palace, millions of people visited the world's fair. This venue served as a showcase for the pioneering innovations of the First Industrial Revolution, namely the Hydraulic press, Steam engine 3, and Spinning machine. Its significance extended far beyond the exhibition, as it became a beacon of enlightenment, spreading a wealth of knowledge and inspiration to nations across the globe. The Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Weak oppose. I'm not yet convinced that individual world's fairs, which only have historical importance, should be listed when we keep finding enduring society-wide topics that are not yet listed. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- World's fair 4 is a level 4 article, surely examples of world's fair merit an inclusion in level 5. The Blue Rider 10:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- I would support swapping World's fair for Exhibition at level 4. Plus, we have many articles listed at V4 for which we don't list subtopics or examples at V5. I guess I just generally support having more common noun topics and less Proper noun 5 ones. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:30, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- I would support swapping World's fair for Exhibition at level 4. Plus, we have many articles listed at V4 for which we don't list subtopics or examples at V5. I guess I just generally support having more common noun topics and less Proper noun
- World's fair
- Discuss
Add Exposition Universelle (1889)[edit]
Like the Great Exhibition, the world's fair drew in millions upon millions of visitors. The event saw the birth of iconic landmarks like the Eiffel Tower 4. Renowned figures such as Thomas Edison 3 and Nikola Tesla 3 were present. The fair served as a way to spread of knowledge, inspiring the generations to come. The Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Weak oppose. I'm not yet convinced that individual world's fairs, which only have historical importance, should be listed when we keep finding enduring society-wide topics that are not yet listed. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add World's Columbian Exposition[edit]
The same rationale as the previous ones but applied to the United States.
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 19:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Weak oppose. I'm not yet convinced that individual world's fairs, which only have historical importance, should be listed when we keep finding enduring society-wide topics that are not yet listed. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
(not OP) Add Exhibition[edit]
The parent topic to World's fair 4 and to some extent Convention center 5 (because they can host both Convention (meeting) 5 and exhibitions). Should be listed before we add individual world's fairs imo.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
(not OP) Add Art gallery[edit]
A common venue for the exhibition of Visual arts 2, in the same vein as Museum 3, World's fair 4, or Convention center 5.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Miss America 5, Miss International 5 and Miss Earth 5[edit]
Viewership and general interest in beauty pageants have decreased dramatically in recent years, and we currently list five specific ones as vital (the others being Miss Universe 5 and Miss World 5). I note we have very few participants as Vital people: Armi Kuusela 5 and Margaret Gorman 5.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:52, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 02:26, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:00, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Mixed
- Oppose Miss America due to the fact it was arguably the inspiration for the others. Support the other two per nom. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 00:19, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per Presidentman.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:34, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per presidentman. Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 20:21, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per Presidentman. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:50, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Fashion week and Haute couture 5[edit]
Two of the most important concepts in Fashion 3. The former is often exchangeable with the "Big Four" fashion capital events.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:54, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support Fashion week. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:26, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support fashion week; I've already supported Haute couture above. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:18, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:04, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:45, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
I've nominated Haute couture above. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:26, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
Everyone feels, and they experience feelings differently. An important topic in psychology.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:34, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:17, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 11:55, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- Although there is some overlap with Qualia 5.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:31, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- I feel this is much more vital than qualia. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:19, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 04:07, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
An enduring cross-cultural practice.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 02:07, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:28, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Femininity and Masculinity[edit]
Culturally significant, worldwide.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 03:36, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 10:29, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 14:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 14:48, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:56, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 02:27, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:46, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Legislator[edit]
An important political position which wields influence on the creation of laws. Known by various names worldwide.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 04:42, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 14:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 07:59, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:04, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Social organization[edit]
"Collectivism" redirects here. I think collectivism should be listed at the same level as Individualism 5.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Swap: Add Russian Academy of Sciences, remove Library of the Russian Academy of Sciences 5[edit]
The parent organization is more important than a library it is served by.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support --Makkool (talk) 13:00, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- The state library is enough for Russian libraries. Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 21:15, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:23, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Swap: Remove Taipei People 5, add The True Story of Ah Q[edit]
I'll quote LaukkuTheGreit: Taipei People: 37th least viewed VA5/Arts article according to the bottom 10% list I've posted earlier. ~12 daily pageviews, 1 interwiki. Although praised in the Receptions section, I think in this case the obscurity outweighs the acclaim (and the high opinions are cited only to two people anyway). Moreover, we already list some other Chinese 20th century fiction such as Rickshaw Boy
5, Diary of a Madman (Lu Xun) 5, Fortress Besieged 5 and Red Sorghum (novel) 5, all of which get more pageviews.
Per the article, The True Story of Ah Q is generally held to be a masterpiece of modern Chinese literature, since it is considered the first piece of work to fully utilize vernacular Chinese after the 1919 May 4th Movement in China.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 12:58, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- This swap I can support --Makkool (talk) 13:03, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 14:22, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- At least it's an improvement.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 16:08, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- makes sense Aurangzebra (talk) 01:55, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 02:28, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Economics concepts[edit]
Add Competition (economics)[edit]
It is strange that we list Perfect competition 4 at V4 when it is more of a theoretical concept and teaching tool than something that reasonably describes markets. The general concept is more realistic and it is commonplace in capitalist economies.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:34, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 18:57, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Cost 5[edit]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It's a bit self-evident but no less important. We incur costs all the time, most inescapably in Opportunity cost 5.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:55, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 04:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 18:30, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Utility 5[edit]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This concept underpins a lot of neoclassical microeconomics and its philosophical foundations, particularly the idea of utility maximization as the motivation of economic agents.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- How do we not have this Aurangzebra (talk) 01:54, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 04:17, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 18:31, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:47, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Political economy 5[edit]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Although this overlaps some with Classical economics 5, it’s a continuing area of study with applications in policy analysis, economic distribution, international relations, etc.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:55, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- The predecessor of economics. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:33, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 10:07, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Economic equilibrium[edit]
Another major concept. A framework for understanding how markets operate, how prices are determined, how agents make decisions, and how resources are allocated.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 18:57, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Economic model[edit]
These are the workhorses in most of the profession. Paraphrasing Paul Krugman, economics can be considered a collection of models. We already list several, most notably Supply and demand 3.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 01:41, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 18:57, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
(not OP) Add Pareto efficiency[edit]
Often considered the ultimate objective of economics. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 09:59, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- Always struck me as a very memorable concept (still remember it from my student days). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:36, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:43, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 18:57, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Gelatin dessert[edit]
Also known as jelly or jello.
- Support
- As nominator. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 02:47, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 04:16, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 02:12, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:24, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
A fabric wrapped around the waist, worn in Southeast Asia, South Asia, Western Asia, Northern Africa, East Africa, West Africa, and on many Pacific islands.
- Support
- As nom. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:24, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- Iostn (talk) 21:47, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- 45 interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 10:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:25, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Personal development[edit]
A process that everyone goes through. Or is it too vague as a concept?
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Phrygian cap[edit]
Historically relevant piece of clothing and heraldic symbol.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
The creator of the laybrinth and father of Icarus 5. The Blue Rider 21:11, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 21:11, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- Famous enough to be V5, MHO. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:04, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 13:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Political party additions[edit]
Add Institutional Revolutionary Party[edit]
One of the longest-ruling dominant parties in the world, in a country with a population of over 100 million. Also, Latin American parties are unrepresented.
- Support
- As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:30, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add Justicialist Party[edit]
The main organ of Peronism that remains extant today, albeit in a very complex and divided fashion.
- Support
- As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add Ba'ath Party[edit]
Pan-Arab precusor to the longtime sole ruling parties of both Syria and Iraq.
- Support
- As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add Likud[edit]
The most powerful political force for decades in one of the states party to the one of the world's longest-running conflicts. We also list both the Palestine Liberation Organization 5 and Hamas 5.
- Support
- As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add Communist Party of Vietnam[edit]
Sole ruling party in state of over 100 million people - I think this may be the largest ML state aside from China and the USSR, actually.
- Support
- As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- Vital at this level, surely. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:02, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:31, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- It's at around 99 million, but vital nevertheless. Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 01:38, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. The Blue Rider 03:10, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add National Party (South Africa)[edit]
Dominant party for 40+ years, plus Apartheid 4 is VA4. African National Congress 5 is already listed.
- Support
- As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Add MPLA[edit]
Dominant party in Angola for the past 40/50 years, plus one of the main parties to the Angolan Civil War 4 at VA4.
- Support
- As nom. Iostn (talk) 22:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- Not only in the Angolan Civil War but also in the Angolan War of Independence 5. The Blue Rider 16:09, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discussion
Major oversight! This is how international economical cooperation is made possible. The Blue Rider 15:34, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
There are three types of goods in economics, private goods, common goods and public goods. Public goods are of the interest of the state and are specially important in welfare states. They are also widely studied in the field of economics because they have a grand influence in the policies of a state; one must decide whether to allocate resources toward public goods provision through taxation and government spending or to leave their provision to the private sector, considering factors such as efficiency, equity, and the role of government in promoting societal welfare. The Blue Rider 15:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 15:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:44, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Since the other 2 are not listed.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Two wrongs don't make a right, plus public goods are the most immportant of them all. The Blue Rider 19:15, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Two wrongs don't make a right, plus public goods are the most immportant of them all. The Blue Rider
- Discuss
Add We Will Rock You[edit]
Since my attempt to remove "We Are the Champions” failed, I am now advocating for the addition of "We Will Rock You". Again, I don't think you can choose one song over the other; these songs are almost always played back to back.
- Support
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 18:27, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- We Are the Champions and We Will Rock You are admittedly closely linked. However, the former has significantly more long-lasting cultural impact.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:33, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add Cyberspace[edit]
Important concept in science and fiction, 49 interwikis. Almost 7k daily pageviews. Not sure which section to add this too, suggestions welcome. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 23:06, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- as nom --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 23:06, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:52, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Some businesses analysis[edit]
Basic concepts that are taught at businesses and economics bachelor's. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
Add SWOT analysis[edit]
Widely used framework that companies utilize to help decision-making, specifically their strenghts (S), weaknesses (W), opportunities (O) and threats (T); 57 interwikis. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add PEST analysis[edit]
Another widely used framework that companies utilize to know their macro-environmental factors, such as political (P), economic (E), social (S) and technological (T); sometimes it is extended as PESTEL to include other factors. 35 interwikis. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Porter's five forces analysis[edit]
Finally, a widely method used to get a sense of the competition a company is facing. It includes, threat of new entrants, threat of substitutes, bargaining power of customers, bargaining power of suppliers and competitive rivalry. 34 interwikis. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 17:00, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
[edit]
I'm sure there are more articles that could be added but this is what I gathered from a quick glance. Also, I'm only going to provide very brief reasonings since I don't have the patient to do longer ones as of now. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
Add Schengen Area[edit]
Extremely important since it allows the free movement of people in 29 countries without any kind of Border control 5.
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- A key concept for the EU. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 00:49, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 14:33, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 13:18, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 17:09, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Iostn (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Obviously. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:58, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:08, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add European single market[edit]
Equally important since it allows the free movement of capital, people, services and goods in 32 countries.
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- A key concept for the EU. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 00:47, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
- Iostn (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Maastricht Treaty[edit]
It created the European Union 3 and its main pillars!
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- Iostn (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- As important as the Treaty of Lisbon 5 that amended it. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:57, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:08, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Treaty of Rome[edit]
It created the European Coal and Steel Community 5, European Economic Community 5 and Euratom 5!
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Schuman Declaration[edit]
A declaration that was fulcral to the creation of the European Coal and Steel Community 5, would put it on the same level as the Fourteen Points. It is more important than you think, 47 interwikis!
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Robert Schuman[edit]
Quoting the article "Twice Prime Minister of France, a reformist Minister of Finance and a Foreign Minister, he was instrumental in building postwar European and trans-Atlantic institutions and was one of the founders of the European Communities, the Council of Europe and NATO."
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- Iostn (talk) 21:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Very important. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Though I suspect some might be thrown by him being called twice PM: in France, the role of the Prime Minister is significantly inferior to that of the President (currently Macron). J947 ‡ edits 07:11, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Fourteen Points[edit]
Inspired by a book that I can't remember by Kant, the Fourteen Points of Woodrow Wilson dictated the domestic and external policy of the United States and of many other countries! It is famous for proposing the creation of the League of Nations 4.
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 03:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
- I think this is pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hadn't heard of it myself but yeah it seems important enough. On a bit of a tangent, should Triple Entente and Triple Alliance (1882) be listed? J947 ‡ edits 07:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Constitutional Commission 5 and Golden rule (law) 5[edit]
Niche concepts in constitutional law. Zero interwikis.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 04:46, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. Makkool (talk) 11:48, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Deutsche Mark[edit]
The currency that Euro 4 was largely bassed on. It was the official currency of West Germany 5 and Germany 3
- Support
- As nominator. The Blue Rider 13:55, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- I'm not convinced any individual historic currencies are vital. Gold standard 5 or Special drawing rights 5 should be added, but not Deutsche mark. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:35, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Two major forms of Communication 2.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 14:33, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- V5, sure. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 22:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Swap Fraktur 5 with Blackletter[edit]
Fraktur is just one type of Blackletter typefaces. It is by far the most famous one, but the article also mentions that the term "Fraktur" is also used to refer to the entire Blackletter group of typefaces.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Film additions[edit]
Add Harakiri (1962 film)[edit]
In the removal discussion for The Human Condition (film series), I noted that film/series seemed less vital than Harakiri, a film by the same director, which has a 100% ranking on Rotten Tomatoes and is the highest ranked film on Letterboxd. It's also in the TSPDT top 1000.
- Support
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Fantasia (1940 film)[edit]
Considered a landmark in animated film, and one that continues to have a long-lasting legacy.
- Support
- Nom Iostn (talk) 22:37, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. I mentioned in the now-archived thread to remove Wall-E that my top candidate for replacing it was Fantasia (1940 film) but it didn't get much traction. Hopefully, there is more support this time around. Aurangzebra (talk) 18:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Disney animated films I feel are slightly underrepresented considering their enduring worldwide popularity, and I'd consider this (alongside Pinocchio) more vital than Beauty and the Beast (1991 film) 5.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 19:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Nanook of the North[edit]
Hugely influential on the documentary film as a format, "It was the first feature-length documentary to achieve commercial success, proving the financial viability of the genre and inspiring many films to come".
- Support
- Oppose
- I'm apt to oppose films that people who aren't extreme cinephiles typically haven't heard of. Also, I feel like, in general, it requires a much higher standard of notability to include documentaries on this list as documentaries are much less influential in the cultural zeitgeist than regular movies. If we are really looking to add another documentary, I would rather add Bowling for Columbine which has much more of a cultural legacy, is way more well-known, has won more awards (though this is less impressive when compared to a movie from 1922), and is regularly considered one of the greatest documentaries of all time. Aurangzebra (talk) 20:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add Rome, Open City[edit]
"Open City is considered one of the most important and representative works of Italian neorealism 5, and an important stepping stone for Italian filmmaking as a whole."
- Support
- Oppose
- We already have a better, much more famous representative for Italian neorealism with Bicycle Thieves 4. We probably don't need 2. And even with the expanded quota, our film section is so small that we should probably only be listing unambiguous classics or widely-known films. It doesn't even have a Legacy section. Aurangzebra (talk) 20:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- I am explicitly proposing films because I think the section is disproprtionately small compared to video games (which is at ~100), when films have been around for much longer (1890s vs 1970s) and have built up much more cultural influence over time. Besides, Bicycle Thieves is listed a tier above this already. Iostn (talk) 18:32, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree that films should have more representation especially when compared to video games (I have a track record of complaining about how many video game articles we have), I just don't think this is anywhere close to being one of the best candidates. Aurangzebra (talk) 18:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- I am explicitly proposing films because I think the section is disproprtionately small compared to video games (which is at ~100), when films have been around for much longer (1890s vs 1970s) and have built up much more cultural influence over time. Besides, Bicycle Thieves is listed a tier above this already. Iostn (talk) 18:32, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add Get Out[edit]
Maybe recent(ist), but this has already risen as one of the most highly-regarded films of the 21st century, and has had an impact on "conscious" trends in film in recent years.
- Support
- Oppose
We're over quota in Level 5.While we are still adding broadly relevant concepts like Voting, I can't support adding one-off films like this one. starship.paint (RUN) 13:14, 11 April 2024 (UTC)- VA5 is currently below quota, its only has 49,958 as of the latest update. Iostn (talk) 15:05, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- But Arts is over-quota at 3,322/3,300. Currently specific films are at 199, and customarily we had at the number of vital films at 200. I would support your suggestions, if paired with films to swap. Makkool (talk) 16:23, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- I was actually personally in favour of a higher quota for films, given we had one of 105 for video games which is a much more recent medium and therefore one with less titles that are as culturally influential, but I can propose some other removals from Arts. Iostn (talk) 19:18, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Jumping into this quite late but I would support removing video games in favor of adding more movies. I think our massive list of video game articles reflects the demographics of VA5 voters as opposed to all Wikipedia users whereas movies are a more global phenomenon. Aurangzebra (talk) 06:34, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- I was actually personally in favour of a higher quota for films, given we had one of 105 for video games which is a much more recent medium and therefore one with less titles that are as culturally influential, but I can propose some other removals from Arts. Iostn (talk) 19:18, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- @Iostn:, I stand corrected, I did not know about the recent update. Still, I agree with Makkool. starship.paint (RUN) 08:15, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- But Arts is over-quota at 3,322/3,300. Currently specific films are at 199, and customarily we had at the number of vital films at 200. I would support your suggestions, if paired with films to swap. Makkool (talk) 16:23, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- VA5 is currently below quota, its only has 49,958 as of the latest update. Iostn (talk) 15:05, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Add Pather Panchali[edit]
One of the most important films in the history of Indian cinema, which is also the largest in the world in terms of number of films produced.
- Support
- Nom Iostn (talk) 22:37, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 14:01, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- As far as I'm aware, we don't list a single Indian movie. We definitely should have one and this is probably the best candidate since Satyajit Ray 4 has been highly influential in global cinema. Aurangzebra (talk) 20:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- There is The Apu Trilogy 4 at least.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 20:19, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oh completely missed that. As the most famous movie in that trilogy, I'll still support this proposal. Aurangzebra (talk) 20:34, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- And there's Sholay 5 and Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge 5 too. Makkool (talk) 20:40, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- There is The Apu Trilogy
- Oppose
- Discuss
Notable omission. Interstellarity (talk) 23:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- Interstellarity (talk) 23:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- I vote to include this Kevinishere15 (talk) 00:04, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 13:13, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 15:22, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Pretty important. QuicoleJR (talk) 12:56, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Consider V4 as well. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 22:24, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 21:28, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:53, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:33, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discussion
Visual arts general article removals[edit]
Remove Text comics 5[edit]
An early form of comics without speech bubbles. A niche topic, with 300 or so page views in the last 30 days.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 18:19, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:44, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Burnishing (pottery) 5[edit]
A specific technique used in making pottery. A short stub article on a niche topic, which isn't vital to understand the whole concept of pottery.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 18:19, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:44, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Bone carving 5[edit]
An important form in prehistoric art, but Ivory carving is a much more vital topic as a whole and we don't list it. Would possibly swap, or rather just remove.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:50, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- SailorGardevoir (talk) 03:44, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Swap Panoramic painting 5 with Chiaroscuro[edit]
Replacing a less notable form of painting with a well known art concept.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:15, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Swap Coiling (pottery) 5 with Objet d'art[edit]
Replacing another specific technique of pottery with a popular form of art. Also more notable in terms of monthly page views.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 15:30, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 06:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support removal per above but not sure about the addition, 5 interwikis only.. starship.paint (RUN) 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Real-time strategy[edit]
Very popular video game genre. An odd omission, considering that Turn-based strategy 5 is listed.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 20:56, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:58, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Would support a swap with Turn-based strategy 5 but not an outright addition. I definitely think we have way too many video game related articles so unless an exclusion is egregious, I'm apt to oppose. Aurangzebra (talk) 06:30, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Turn-based strategy was added last December, so only four months ago. Makkool (talk) 11:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
This title was basically only ever used by Adolf Hitler 3 and a few other German Nazis. As such, it overlaps a good bit with Dictator 5. It does not need to be listed.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 18:56, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:59, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:13, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 15:48, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 00:02, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Remove Eurasian Economic Community 5[edit]
A defunct organization superseded by the Eurasian Economic Union 5.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:56, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- feminist🩸 (talk) 15:43, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:19, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- J947 ‡ edits 07:08, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Office of Strategic Services 5[edit]
This U.S. organization only existed for three years and was largely superseded by the CIA.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:56, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, does not seem vital. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:41, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Book of the Civilized Man 5[edit]
Presumably added because it is "believed to be the first English courtesy book", but it does not appear to have been particularly influential. Author Daniel of Beccles does not even have a Wiki page.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 03:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Courtesy book is not even listed at VA5, and I'm not sure if it should be. This book should not be anywhere near the list. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:45, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. With Etiquette 4, Emily Post would be an infinitely better choice. Note Baldassare Castiglione 5 as well, on this subject. J947 ‡ edits 07:06, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove The Secret of Monkey Island 5[edit]
This game was really well-received, but we can't have every "best game of all time" on the list, and there are games like Super Mario World and Metroid Prime that are not listed despite having more sourcing for their position as "best game of all time" on that list. Additionally, this game is a subtopic of LucasArts adventure games 5, which is already listed, so the game would still be represented.
- Support
- As nom, although I would also be willing to support removing LucasArts adventure games 5 instead if that would be preferred. QuicoleJR (talk) 15:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- I have to give a reluctant support, as we did already vote to remove Planescape: Torment. We have to strictly limit what games we can list, and old school cult classics have less standing on the list than really innovating video games. Makkool (talk) 15:12, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- I am a fan and thought about removing this; LucasArts adventure games 5 is enough.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 15:55, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 12:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- We need a reconsideration of what video games truly qualify to be the most vital articles for an encyclopedia. Just because something was popular or a "cult classic" doesn't mean it left an impact on the entire industry. LucasArts adventure games 5 is already listed, and that's good in my opinion. λ NegativeMP1 20:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- I would prefer to remove LucasArts adventure games instead as that's the page with much lower traffic and even collectively, I don't think they are as clearly defined as a single group as say, a single series/franchise would be. Iostn (talk) 19:21, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose per Iost, and I generally prefer to list the most important individual games rather than overall franchises Kevinishere15 (talk) 00:54, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
Scarcity[edit]
Key economic concept. 40 interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 01:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- as nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Externality[edit]
Key economic concept. 45 interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 01:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- as nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Elasticity (economics)[edit]
Key economic concept. 43 interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 01:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- as nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:58, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Budget to Accounting[edit]
Key accounting concept. 76 interwikis. starship.paint (RUN) 02:04, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- as nom. starship.paint (RUN) 02:04, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- definitely Aurangzebra (talk) 05:27, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support, although I'm not sure if we have the budget for this. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 08:57, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
There are too many "vital" video games[edit]
Sports, games and recreation is currently 33 articles over quota, with 1,233 articles listed as vital. Around 14-15% of these 1.2k articles are video game related subjects, which we list 177 of. 100 of these are individual video games or series (roughly 8% of all listings here). While I think all concept articles we list are pretty fair listings and I wouldn't change any of them, I think that there needs to be a reconsideration of what series or individual video games truly qualify to be among the most important subjects for an encyclopedia.
Let's say that this list is being looked at again in 100 years. In 100 years, games like Super Mario Bros. 5 or The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 5 will almost certainly be relevant due to their undeniable impact on the industry, and the same applies to their parent franchises, but will Undertale 5 be relevant by then when there's no evidence to support it had an industry impact even 9 years after its release? I get that it could be hard to determine what falls under WP:RECENTISM with video games especially, and making assumptions like this could violate WP:CRYSTALBALL, but its probably good to assume that, if a game doesn't have evidence for industry wide impact only a few years after release and was simply just successful, it likely won't have an impact seen across the industry a century after release.
Another issue here is the lack of representation of listings from areas that aren't Japan or the United States. Even if those areas certainly have more video games originating from them than anywhere else, surely there are some more video games from/popular in Asia that could be considered for vitality. I think the video game quota could possibly be reduced. I don't see an issue with any concept articles we list (since those remaining relevant is basically guaranteed), but the individual series or games could probably be reduced from 105 (which I believe is the max quota?) to a number like 70. Even without a reduction, I think what video games are considered vital needs to be reconsidered as a whole anyways. I would like to hear what y'all think of my concerns and/or proposals for reducing the list amount. λ NegativeMP1 20:56, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- We no longer use quotas for subtopics within the list, like video games. I would support removing some games that are only listed for their popularity and not for any cultural or industry influence, but I think that the former arguably applies to Undertale. Swapping some individual games with concept articles could also be a good idea. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Either way, we still have a quota for the entire subcategory, and reducing how many video games we have would help us meet the quota instead of overshooting. Undertale has no more cultural influence than something like Five Nights at Freddy's, which has been rejected for vitality several times, so why Undertale got the pass doesn't make sense to me. Neither should be listed. λ NegativeMP1 21:27, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I agree, Undertale is a completely irrelevant game that barely anyone has ever heard of; close to zero long-term impact. Make the proposals and I will support them. The Blue Rider 21:29, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Ok, saying that barely anyone has heard of it is blatantly wrong. Its music was even played in front of Pope Francis! QuicoleJR (talk) 21:48, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I wouldn't say it's completely irrelevant, but I would argue it'd be irrelevant in 100 years. Again, WP:RECENTISM. λ NegativeMP1 22:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Completely agree. I've mentioned this on another thread but I feel like the demographic that participates in these discussions is more predisposed to video game culture and therefore tends to overweight video-game related topics. I myself am probably guilty of this when it comes to topics I'm more interested in but it is important that we are aware of our own biases when we vote. Aurangzebra (talk) 23:49, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think it would be a good idea to use some of these newly freed slots for movies and books, which are often more influential and which have a longer history as mediums. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- @QuicoleJR: Since Undertale is being proposed for removal (our only indie game listing not counting Minecraft), I'm curious if you think there's any indie games that could possibly qualify to replace it. I like the idea of having one or two indie game representatives, though I don't think Undertale quite meets the bar personally. Your thoughts? λ NegativeMP1 01:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- I thought of FNAF but it's too US centric. I also thought of Cave Story or Super Meat Boy but I'm not sure either could make the cut. Mokadoshi (talk) 01:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Remove Undertale 5[edit]
Per the concerns listed by me and others above, I don't believe this game truly qualifies to be among the most important subjects in an encyclopedia, let alone one of the most important video games ever. It's certainly popular, and I love it as much as the next person, but will it and its minimal industry influence be recognizable or relevant in 100 years?
- Support
- As nominator. λ NegativeMP1 22:36, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. It is included on the List of video games considered the best article but there are over 320 entries on there and we can't list them all. Aurangzebra (talk) 23:56, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Wikipedia may not exist in 100 years, but if my proposal to add FNAF failed, this shouldn't be here either. Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 00:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Support. I like the game, and I wish there were more indie games on this list, but it's hard to argue that Undertale had the same impact or popularity as other titles on this list. It's below other titles that are also being voted to remove, like Madden. Mokadoshi (talk) 01:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC)- Recentism, impact not yet on the level of much older games. Would probably put Cave Story or Spelunky as more important indie games.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 06:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- J947 ‡ edits 07:00, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Obscure videogame. The Blue Rider 15:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree that it is an "obscure" game like what user said above, but its impact doesn't last longer than we thought. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 05:03, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- This was added only two months ago 4-0 and I don't really see what has changed massively since then to warrant it being removed so suddently. Furthermore, there was a comment above noting that this would leave Minecraft 5 as the only represented indie game, and suggested Cave Story or Super Meat Boy as alternatives, but both of those are still much more niche entries than the decidedly-not-in-fact-obscure Undertale. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
- I would say I am neutral on this proposal. While the game is highly praised, I am not sure if it is on the same level as Skyrim, Minecraft, and BOTW, which are all listed at the same level. Sans and Megalovania are very iconic to meme culture, but not at the level of Wojak (not listed) or Rick Astley 5. It is very influential, but I'm not sure if it quite makes the VA5 list. If there was a VA6, it would undoubtedly make it there. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- I'll remove my support vote given the fact that it received 4-0 support to add it to the list recently, and there are plenty of games being discussed here for removal that I don't think it's necessary. Mokadoshi (talk) 18:56, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Remove Madden NFL 5 and Pro Evolution Soccer 5, add Sports video game[edit]
Madden and Pro Evolution Soccer are popular series that have made a lot of money, but I'm not seeing the impact they have had past that. The genre is very popular and full of several other examples of popular series that have made a lot of money. FIFA is the series out of all of them that has sold the most copies, so we should keep it, but I don't see a need to keep the others.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 21:47, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support remove Pro Evolution Soccer and add Sports video game. Used to play this as a kid so sad to see it go but way surpassed in popularity and notability by FIFA. Aurangzebra (talk) 00:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support removing Pro Evolution Soccer and adding Sports video game. Oppose removing Madden as per Aurangzebra. Mokadoshi (talk) 01:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support removing PES and adding Sports video game, oppose removing Madden. Kevinishere15 (talk) 02:43, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support removing PES and swapping it with Sports video game, but oppose removing Madden per Aurangzebra. λ NegativeMP1 03:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 06:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support removals; oppose addition. Would (weakly) support the removal of FIFA (video game series) as well. J947 ‡ edits 07:02, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support removing PES and adding sports video game Makkool (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support swapping PES with sports game only (surprised it wasn't already listed). Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support pes and SVG, oppose madden. Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 00:33, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Oppose remove Madden NFL. Cultural legacy in the US is enough to warrant a place here. The Madden series is deeply intertwined with the NFL itself. In fact, NFL players place a great deal of stock in their Madden ratings. Aurangzebra (talk) 00:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose remove Madden.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:41, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose removing Madden. Netflix's High Score documentary argues that it was an important franchise on Sega's consoles in the 1990's (we list many more for Nintendo). It was also a landmark in diversity of video game characters, as it one of the first to prominently include black athletes. Makkool (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose removing Madden, which is second only to FIFA in sports game franchises. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
Remove Wolfenstein 3D 5[edit]
This proposal might be controversial, and it's certainly a tough pick. This game was undeniably important for the time, but it has long been overshadowed by the far more influential and important Doom (1993 video game) 5 and Quake (series) 5. λ NegativeMP1 00:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support removal per nom, oppose swap as Quake (series) 5 is already listed. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:36, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Overshadowed by Doom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 06:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Weak support. J947 ‡ edits 07:03, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom., overshadowed by later FPS's. Makkool (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- One of the most important FPS games. Kevinishere15 (talk) 02:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- I am not a big video game guy, but this was my cousin's game when we were roommates in the mid 90s. It seemed like it was a big deal. If I am still hearing about it 30 years later, it must still be.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Wolf3D "is widely regarded as having helped popularize the first-person shooter genre and establishing the standard" of what FPS games are, "as well as showcasing the viability of the shareware publishing model at the time". It basically created the entire genre. I'd drop Quake and leave this. --PresN 13:07, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose as one of the first and most influential FPSs, I would have suggested removing Quake (series) 5 instead of this. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
- Wolfenstein 3D basically invented the 3D FPS genre. Games like Fortnite 5 probably wouldn't exist today without it. However, I'd argue that Doom (1993 video game) 5 was more successful in popularizing the genre. I'm inclined to think we don't need both, but at the same time, I'd say the same for having both Need for Speed 5 and Gran Turismo (series) 5 on the list. So, I'm torn unless at a later time we decide that we truly need some additional games to be removed from the list. Mokadoshi (talk) 22:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Not withdrawing this nomination since it still has some support, but I'm going to strike my own support on it as I've come to the conclusion it's too influential to remove the vitality of. Delisting Quake would be more warranted in that regard, though I think all three can reasonably stay, since they all had their own achievements. λ NegativeMP1 00:44, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Remove Team Fortress 2 5[edit]
Definitely popular, but doesn't seem nearly as important as the other games produced by Valve. I'd vote Half-Life 2 be listed before this one (not proposing a swap, I don't think either should be listed). WPVG only lists it as Mid-importance. λ NegativeMP1 00:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nom. λ NegativeMP1 00:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Pretty popular and big part of meme culture, but not at the level of Skyrim, Minecraft, or even FNaF. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Weak Support I don't see how TF 2 is still popular nowadays as what the opposed user said. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- I didn't say its "still popular" (regardless of how you are quantifying that), but rather that it has maintained more longevity over time compared to Overwatch, which it directly inspired and thus a lot of Overwatch's influence is by proxy influence of TF2. Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oops, sorry. Thanks for explaining. Cause of this, I'll change into "weak support". 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:02, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- I didn't say its "still popular" (regardless of how you are quantifying that), but rather that it has maintained more longevity over time compared to Overwatch, which it directly inspired and thus a lot of Overwatch's influence is by proxy influence of TF2. Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Obscure game. The Blue Rider 10:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Maybe on the surface, less well-known than some of the others, its popularity has had a lot more longevity than say Overwatch 5, which it directly inspired and has already been proposed for removal. This is a case of long-term influence overweighing pure popularity. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Weak oppose. The game has obviously had an influence on titles such as Overwatch and by extension Valorant. It also adds to the history of the industry's continued transition to free-to-play. As per Iostn it is irrelevant what it's popularity is today, if anything, the fact that it still has some active players after all this time adds to the claim of its legacy, not the other way around. As I said below, I wouldn't oppose a swap with another game if we truly needed to. Mokadoshi (talk) 19:06, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
- The Orange Box could be a potential swap instead of outright removal. Mokadoshi (talk) 01:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Remove Overwatch 5[edit]
I think Overwatch could make sense on this list in the context of esports, but I'm not sure it adds anything to the list that Counter-Strike, League of Legends, Dota 2, PUBG: Battlegrounds, Fortnite, Quake (series) and Super Smash Bros. don't already cover. In fact, its esports scene is struggling. Mokadoshi (talk) 02:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nom. Mokadoshi (talk) 02:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 02:53, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support. Recentism, I've heard online about how the franchise is in trouble.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 06:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- J947 ‡ edits 07:04, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Too new to assess long term impact, but we can always reassess this in the future using what I said in my below striked comment as a basis. λ NegativeMP1 17:27, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Fell from grace in a big way and a lot of its influence as a "mascot shooter" is more via proxy of TF2. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 05:15, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 00:37, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
I'm going to vote neutral on this one. On one hand, it served as an outlet for promoting diversity in video games and was certainly influential in that regard. On the other hand, the franchise is basically dead in the water following a sequel that nobody liked and the original game being killed. It's also only eight years old. Not voting for either option, but both sides should be considered here.Moved my vote to a support. λ NegativeMP1 03:35, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Remove The Witcher (video game series) 5[edit]
The third entry saw widespread success, but that's basically where it ends. The entire franchise has only sold 75 million units, and while that is nothing to scoff at, there's nothing here that leads me to believe this is a franchise that should be considered one of the most important video game subjects ever. WP:VG assesses it as only Mid-importance. λ NegativeMP1 17:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nom. λ NegativeMP1 17:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. Makkool (talk) 18:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Witcher as a film is more popular than it is in video games. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 05:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
- I think a swap with Open world would make sense, as that article is High-importance. I know we already have Role-playing video game and Action role-playing video game but I still think, with The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 5 and Grand Theft Auto V 5 on this list it might make sense. Mokadoshi (talk) 01:47, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Remove Silent Hill 5[edit]
Assessed by WP:VG as only Mid-importance, and the game series has sold less than ten million units combined. If we're going to pick between this and Resident Evil 5 for what horror video game series should be considered vital, I say that Resident Evil is far more important. RE seems to have proven impact on the industry, while Silent Hill does not seem to. Listing it as "vital" seems redundant. λ NegativeMP1 17:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- As nom. λ NegativeMP1 17:37, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. Makkool (talk) 18:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom and add Resident Evil as a vital article. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Resident Evil is already vital. Kevinishere15 (talk) 03:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oof, missed this one. Thanks. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 03:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Resident Evil is already vital. Kevinishere15 (talk) 03:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Obsure game. The Blue Rider 10:53, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Horror games are big enough for two entries and I think Silent Hill is the best choice for the second. Kevinishere15 (talk) 22:14, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- (As someone who improved a lot of RE character articles, not a bias) Silent Hill recently announced its remake because it was inspired by Resident Evil. After dropping their gameplay reveal trailer, they met with heavy criticism, and fans had already lost hope in the franchise. Since then, the franchise isn't as popular as Resident Evil. 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Iconic horror game franchise; I'd rather prioritise listings like Galaga 5 for removal first.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 05:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Among the most influential and well-received horror game series that has spawned adaptations in other media Silent Hill 2 in particular being among the most highly-regarded games of all time and as a thematic breakthrough for horror games. Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
Remove Super Metroid 5[edit]
Metroid Prime was already removed, and as that constitutes an entire subseries of Metroid 5, that would be the one to list. In any case, it probably isn't big enough among Nintendo's other franchises to warrant two entries here.
- Support
- As nom. Iostn (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- The main franchise itself is surely vital (being a namesake for the Metroidvania subgenre), but is less deserving of subentries than Final Fantasy 5 (which has also one subentry).--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs)
- I would argue that Metroid Prime is a more deserving sub-entry, but I'm not sure either quite pass the bar. λ NegativeMP1 18:29, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per nom. Makkool (talk) 18:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 05:05, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- My comment below misunderstood the proposal. I believed we were discussing removing Metroid 5. I'm fine removing Super Metroid 5, as per NegativeMP1 I don't believe this series needs a subentry. Mokadoshi (talk) 19:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
I'd propose a swap with Metroidvania. Without a swap, I'd oppose removing Metroid 5. Mokadoshi (talk) 22:18, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Remove Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (video game) 5[edit]
Critically acclaimed and award winning computer rpg, but lacking an impact to the industry.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:51, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- 🥒Greenish Pickle!🥒 (🔔) 01:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 05:44, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- The influence of this has probably diminished over time. Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (video game) 5 (swap for Tom Clancy's?)[edit]
Not really sure what is special about this aside from being well-recieved and spawning Ubisoft's Tom Clancy's games. The overall Tom Clancy 5 branded franchise may count due to its longevity and spanning several different series of games, and arguably rivalling the fame of the author who inspired it but I'm not 100% sure if it makes the cut in terms of broader influence.
- Support remove only
- Makkool (talk) 20:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 14:03, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- The biggest FPS milestones are Doom (1993 video game) 5 and Half-Life (video game) 5, others are less critical.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:58, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support swap
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Digimon 5[edit]
Wonder why it's included in the first place. In no way influential, and completely derivative of Pokemon.
- Support
- Oppose
- 52 interwikis. The nom misunderstands the subject; while Digimon shares evolving monsters with Pokémon, Digimon is actually a derivative of Tamagotchi 5. The actual stories and gameplay of Digimon and Pokémon are different. Ultimately this is a popular and enduring (25+ years!) children’s franchise, spanning from virtual pets to video games, to anime (both TV and movies), to manga, to card games, that has spread from Japan to nations across the world. starship.paint (RUN) 00:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe video games is not the right place for this? Possibly it should be listed next to Tamagotchi in Toys. We could also add virtual pet as a top concept. Makkool (talk) 16:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Discuss
- Meh, digimon was big back then, maybe not as much as pokemon but still somewhat influential. The Blue Rider 10:55, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
Remove Frogger 5[edit]
Less pageviews than most of the video games proposed for removal above. I'd estimate this to have less cultural/industry impact than something like Lemmings (video game) which we don't list.
- Support
- As nom.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 21:15, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Less impactful than other classic arcade games. Agree with the discussion below, that page views shouldn't constitute the bulk of justifications for removal. Makkool (talk) 08:15, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, poor wording on my part – I at least should've swapped the sentences or something. I thought it too obvious that people would check articles for vitality claims and give only partial consideration to stats (even if given as justification), like I had to elaborate here.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 09:08, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support swap with Lemmings (video game). Mokadoshi (talk) 18:38, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
- If we're looking to remove Frogger 5 mostly on the grounds of pageviews then we could go further and remove Ultima (series) 5, Galaga 5, Rogue (video game) 5, Colossal Cave Adventure 5, The Oregon Trail (1971 video game) 5, King's Quest 5, Elite (video game) 5, and LucasArts adventure games 5 as they all have fewer total pageviews and fewer monthly average page views than Frogger[1]. It's also important to note that this is not entirely due to recentism since entries like Zork 5 doesn't have this problem. Mokadoshi (talk) 02:24, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps I should've emphasised the lack of compelling vitality claims more explicitly (comparing with Lemmings which has e.g. influenced RTSes was more of my point), but out of those Galaga 5 is also something I'd remove.--LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 05:54, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps I should've emphasised the lack of compelling vitality claims more explicitly (comparing with Lemmings which has e.g. influenced RTSes was more of my point), but out of those Galaga
Title removals[edit]
Considering that King 5 and President (government title) 5 are only VA5, some of these more obscure titles should not be listed. I have nominated a few below, and nominated Führer 5 in a separate section above.
Remove Grand duke 5[edit]
Only ever used by Luxembourg and some old European city-states that have since become part of larger countries.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Iostn (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Remove Archduke 5[edit]
It was only ever used by the Habsburgs of Austria.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 14:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Remove Khan (title) 5[edit]
Outside of its use by Genghis Khan and the other rulers of the Mongol Empire, this has never really been a very important title. The first sentence even explicitly says that the term is like King 5., and I don't think anyone will argue that it is at the same level of importance.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 14:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Remove Esquire 5[edit]
Not really significant in any way.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 14:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Remove Satrap 5[edit]
The title for a provincial ruler in a few ancient empires. Not seeing the significance.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 14:06, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Remove Shah 5[edit]
Another word for king, used by the Iranians and a few other related societies. It literally translates to king.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 14:07, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 01:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Highly popular and prevelant caracther created by Ovid 4's Metamorphoses, a name that has become a byword for self-love.
- Support
- As nominator.The Blue Rider 19:38, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- Per. nom Makkool (talk) 12:09, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- --Thi (talk) 14:07, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:50, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
It’s a subtopic of young adulthood. Interstellarity (talk) 11:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- Interstellarity (talk) 11:20, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discussion
Add Early childhood[edit]
Important state of like between toddlerhood and middle childhood. Interstellarity (talk) 11:24, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- Interstellarity (talk) 11:24, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discussion
Add Open world[edit]
A very important part of video games. It has existed since The Legend of Zelda (video game) 5 in the 1980s and was popular then, but it has since become really popular with the more recent console generations. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim 5, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild 5, and Grand Theft Auto V 5 are all good examples of open world games.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:16, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- Would easily list this before Skyrim or The Witcher (proposed for removal above). λ NegativeMP1 00:52, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Important concept in games. Kevinishere15 (talk) 03:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support, as proposed above. Mokadoshi (talk) 02:29, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Major Buddhist holiday that's not yet listed.
- Support
- As nom. Makkool (talk) 19:19, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- The most important festival in a religion with over 500 million adherents. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:49, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Major omission. starship.paint (RUN) 01:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- --LaukkuTheGreit (Talk•Contribs) 07:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft 5[edit]
Stephen King's memoirs. Far from his best-known work.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 14:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Conditional factor demands 5 and Expansion path 5[edit]
I propose to remove these to balance some of the recent additions we've made in economics. You are unlikely to hear these concepts outside of class.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- 2 interwikis each. Niche. starship.paint (RUN) 14:24, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 16:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- The articles do not explain why these topics are important. QuicoleJR (talk) 17:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Remove Law of Austria 5 and Law of Belgium 5[edit]
Legal system of smallish countries. Not many distinctive elements about them. Low pageviews and interwikis as well.
- Support
- As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 23:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
- per above. starship.paint (RUN) 14:29, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 16:51, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Not really worth listing. QuicoleJR (talk) 01:13, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 01:27, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
[edit]
The Crime-related listings could use a few changes. I identified five articles that can be removed and five more that can be added. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Remove Hybrid offence 5[edit]
Seems too niche. Summary offence 5 and Indictable offence 5 are only VA5, and the “goes both ways” type is not important enough to be listed alongside them. Only 2 interwikis.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Remove Spree killer 5[edit]
This term is rarely used compared to Serial killer 5, which has six times the interwikis and is only VA5. It also had too much overlap with that and Mass murder 5.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- According to the article, the definition is rather vague. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- I think it's less used too, but it's still a well-defined separate category of crime worth listing next to those. Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Spree killers often get a lot of press and impact legal systems, popular culture, etc, enough to be listed. The Blue Rider 14:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Neutral
- Discuss
Remove Deception (criminal law) 5[edit]
Only ever used by England and Ireland, and England seems to have stopped using it. This is way too niche. Only 3 interwikis.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Remove False pretenses 5[edit]
This is seemingly only used by the U.S. and UK, and is too niche to be listed. Only 1 interwiki.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Remove Misprision of felony 5[edit]
This definitely shouldn't be listed. It has been abolished in the UK and is currently only really used in the United States, and even there it is not a common charge. Only 3 interwikis.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Add Intention (criminal law)[edit]
Intent is a fundamental legal concept. 25 interwikis, rated Top-Importance by WikiProject Law.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Add Mens rea[edit]
Fundamental legal concept. Along with Actus reus (nominated below), one of the two elements of a crime. 18 interwikis, rated Top-Importance by WikiProject Law and WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Add Actus reus[edit]
Fundamental legal concept. Along with Mens rea (nominated above), one of the two elements of a crime. 18 interwikis, rated High-Importance by WikiProject Law, WikiProject Latin, and WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Add Legal fiction[edit]
This is a very important legal topic. 20 interwikis is a good bit more than a lot of other legal topics on the list.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Major subgenre of crime fiction we don't yet list. Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Add Victimless crime[edit]
Very common concept. 18 interwikis and over 150 daily pageviews.
- Support
- As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Makkool (talk) 08:22, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 13:20, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 15:16, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Neutral
- Discuss
Add Innuendo to Communication[edit]
Figure of speech, one of the tropes, used for comedic or insulting effect. starship.paint (RUN) 02:21, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Support
- as nom. starship.paint (RUN) 02:21, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 04:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:52, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss
Add Reinsurance[edit]
A major part of the insurance industry. Place under Insurance.
- Support
- As nominator. feminist🩸 (talk) 08:06, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Still hard to believe Warranty 5 wasn't even V5 a year ago. Vileplume 🍋🟩 (talk) 23:26, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
- Oppose
- Discuss