This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
The whole point of a WikiProject is so people can work together on an article, and so far, we haven't suggested one. How about starting with Apple Macintosh? It's had peer reveiw, former featured article candidacy, all that's needed now is work. --HereToHelp (talk) 15:31, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
Right, sounds good - to get the Apple Macintosh article featured we need to fulfill the FAC requests, which are on the Talk page which has a todo list on it at Talk:Apple Macintosh. I think maybe we should create a hot topics list of the best topics to work on at Wikipedia:WikiProject Macintosh/lists/Hot topics, and add this to the Project Macintosh template as well when this has been done. — Wackymacs 15:57, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
That sounds right to me. But, do we bring our ideas for each "hot topic" to that article's talk page.. or discuss them here?
On the article's talk pages. This wikiproject page is just for simple guidelines, to bring people together, and to outline which articles need working on (thus the lists linked to from the main template on the project page). — Wackymacs 21:02, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Hot topics
I have created a hot topics section on the project page outlining the main topics that need work on first, before the other topics in the subject-specific lists. — Wackymacs 21:04, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
How do I join?
I didn't know that there's a Mac project! How do I join? (where is the member page?) Dread Lord CyberSkull✎☠ 12:53, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Its simple, the instructions are on the page in the Participants section. — Wackymacs 13:29, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, this project is pretty new, so we don't have a lot of people and so it's just a member section. --HereToHelp (talk) 19:16, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
I've done extensive revision, I'm itching to get this to FA status. Bu if you think otherwise...--HereToHelp (talk) 14:47, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
When it fits the FA criteria and fixes the issues mentioned in the last FA, and fixes the FA issues mentioned on the todo list on the Talk:Apple Macintosh page.Wackymacs 11:26, December 10, 2005 (UTC)
Okay. I've taken the liberty of crossing a bunch of stuff out on the todo list; if you think the issue still needs to be adressed, take out the strikethrough. Meanwhile, I think we're almost there. The big issue is is the length. Can we really get it under 40k? 45 sounds more reasonable and achievable. The following examples are all FA. Evolution and Mozilla Firefox are both 46k; Wikipedia is 48; and Diamond is 62!--HereToHelp (talk) 19:14, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Some FAs are 68k, I think size shouldn't be used as an objection - so we shouldn't worry about the size, 45k sounds alright. The article is looking the best it ever has, but there are some inline html refs that need to be converted to footnotes. — Wackymacs 21:48, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
When you put an html link inside the context as a reference instead of including it as a footnote. — Wackymacs 21:58, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Oh, is that the new rule? I'm on it. --HereToHelp (talk) 22:05, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Recentism
I have a problem with the sidebars on application articles. It suffers from recentism. Typically, they show the release date of the most recent version. For a currently-in-development program, I often find it much more interesting to know the date of the 1.0 release...Similarly about sections such as the "Current product line" in Apple Mac...The current product line is no more encyclopedic than the product line of 1993, and should not be that much more prominent. A third example is {{Apple hardware since 1998}}. — David Remahl 13:28, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
Interesting. I'm going to disagree about the current Macs; I think that's relevant, and we have a timeline of all of them in the last part of the history section. But as far as a program being developed, I agree, let's put both values. The Project will see what they can do.
I began adding the {{macprojectarticle}} template to all the articles highlighted on the project page. I started with the OS topics, and made it all the way through those. But, I am too tired to get any further tonight. If anyone wants to pick up where I left off, go ahead. t-bte288-c 05:03, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Categories that need {{macprojectarticle}} template added to article talk pages:
Keep at it. I redesigned the template extensively, it looks much better now; and I moved it to the lowercase page and put redirects on the upercase one (for future reference always put templates in lowercase except the first letter). I think that you'll like the work I did with the templates in general. --HereToHelp (talk) 11:47, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Good stuff, keep it up guys. Meanwhile, I'm working on improving the Claris article to featured status. The current article focus is Apple Computer if anyone wants to start on that one. — Wackymacs 12:05, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
Also, this template now adds articles to Category:WikiProject macintosh articles so we can find this sad collection of stubs. That category is really a subcategory of Category:WikiProject Macintosh, which includes administrative pages for the project (like this one) and our focuses (foci?), past and current, because the are our best work. --HereToHelp (talk) 02:07, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Yeah. I wanted the lowercase page to be a redirect but that makes it a subcategory, which I didn't want. If anyone's an admin, if they could delete the bad page I'd appreciate it. --HereToHelp (talk) 02:40, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
What is our policy on the pages that haven't been created yet? Do we create the page just to stick the template on the discussion page, or do we leave the page until we can get to it later?--t-bte288-c 05:37, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
While, unless I'm in a huge minority, I'd say that you should create the pages for the template. I've creaed a bunch of talk pages already, but those were for existing articles. My logic, though, is that we want as large of a collection of articles to improve as we can. By having a template on a non existant page, we won't forget about it. However, these pages are of course not worked on like the focuses are—that's why I made a separate subcategory for them. But we need to know that these pages exist and need our help. I say put the template there. --HereToHelp (talk) 23:44, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Mission accomplished! I just finished tagging everything. --HereToHelp (talk) 03:19, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Template images
Background note: At the time, the grey Apple logo (option 2) had a shadow that made it look very bad in the template; this was fixed for this cause.
I changed the image in the templates from the finder logo to the Apple logo. The former looks better (it doesn't have that awkward white area around it which the other does, at least on my machine) but the Apple logo is technically more correct because we have biography topics, too. So Il give both examples:
For what it's worth... I cleaned up the graphite apple logo. Doesn't mean I like it better than the striped one, but it might change someone else's mind. --t-bte288-c 04:35, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
This article is part of WikiProject Macintosh. This means that the WikiProject has identified it as an Apple product, but is not currently working to improve it. WikiProject Macintosh itself is an attempt to improve, grow, standardize, and attain featured status for Wikipedia's articles related to Apple Macintosh and Apple Computer. We need all your help, so join in as a participant today!
This article is part of WikiProject Macintosh. This means that the WikiProject has identified it as an article pertaining to Apple Computer, but is not currently working to improve it. WikiProject Macintosh itself is an attempt to improve, grow, standardize, and attain featured status for Wikipedia's articles related to Apple Macintosh and Apple Computer. We need all your help, so join in as a participant today!
This article is part of WikiProject Macintosh. This means that the WikiProject has identified it as an article pertaining to Apple Computer, but is not currently working to improve it. WikiProject Macintosh itself is an attempt to improve, grow, standardize, and attain featured status for Wikipedia's articles related to Apple Macintosh and Apple Computer. We need all your help, so join in as a participant today!
I want to get a consensus, so we'll hold voting below. --HereToHelp (talk) 21:48, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
I added one more choice, mostly because I think it's better than the other two options. --t-bte288-c 03:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
The striped one...interesting. But, considering that the vote is 1-0-2, I guess I'm going to have to allow it. But many of these products are from that era; and it looks better than the graphite one. Let's keep the polles open for a few more days, though. --HereToHelp (talk) 11:50, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Oh great, now we're tied. The thing I wanted to bring up is that I think we should put whatever image we put for these templates as the image for template:mac-stub. It currently has option 1, the Finder icon.--HereToHelp (talk) 23:46, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm going to change my vote to the grey Apple logo. I think it works better than the Finder and now that the shadow is gone, I see no reason to vote for the Finder. The striped Apple logo looks very flat and 2-D, and the Finder is not as good of an image in that we focus on more than the technology here.— Preceding unsigned comment added by HereToHelp (talk • contribs)
I'd prefer some version of the Finder icon. I'd go for the second, but the shadow on it is terrible. Dread Lord CyberSkull✎☠ 08:07, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
'Support. Although I somewhat agree with Bte288's comment that the striped logo is more widely associated with Apple, the Apple design now promotes just the outline and the "Aqua" style -- they have not used stripes for over 5 years. --TangentIdea 23:23, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
'Agree'. I agree that the Aqua logo looks better and is better recognisable to new users. —Claunia 09:31, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Striped Apple logoEliminated
I support the old apple logo, because it is the symbol most often associated with Apple and Macintosh. --t-bte288-c 03:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Support. I've always preferred this Apple logo than any other, it looks really good on the template. — Wackymacs 07:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
Support I have to support the rainbow logo - it is the most historically accurate icon. It has been in use the longest, and conveys more information than the other options. --67.171.148.28 23:57, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Comment:: Interesting that an anon user wants to put his/her vote in. This person probably has an account but was logged off for whatever reason. And I'm going to assume that everyone is being honest and not logging off to vote twice...
Strange, it's that anonymous user's only edit too. I don't think we should count it. — Wackymacs 07:25, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
For the record, I was that anonymous user. (--Dschor 12:50, 6 January 2006 (UTC))
Sorry about that. It wouldn't have mattered anyway; besides, none of these images are GNU and we wound up with a 128k mac.--HereToHelp (talk) 23:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Now that I think about it, and someone's adressed my concern, I'm going to change my vote. Also, since CyberSkull was also dettered by the shawdow, I'm going to take the liberty of changing his, too—although if he still likes the Finder, all he has to do is say so (although that puts the striped logo in the lead...)
Good, we have a tie breaking vote! And (yes!) I don't have to change all the template images.--HereToHelp (talk) 23:28, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Even though Claunia has voted, the time stays because he/she was not a tie breaker. iI the striped one gets 2 more votes we're back to a deadlock and the time limit is useless. --HereToHelp (talk) 13:10, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Voting is now closed. The winner is the grey Apple logo, all templates have been changed accordingly (it look a lot of work, too, wink wink!). If a bloc of 5 users (the winning majority was 4), and at least half (3, round up) of them are project members decide that they all fancy a different logo, a second round of voting will begin. For now...let's be done with it.--HereToHelp (talk) 03:05, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
Major project page redesign
The whole point of a WikiProject is to work together, so what's the point of listing all the obscure articles in the Hot Topics section? Also, the Guidelines, section isn't very helpful, the Intructions are kind of ify and the Goals need clarification. With the permission of the project participants, I'd like to redesign the page. This would include removing the hot topics and working to concentrate on the Focus article and FAC. I'd also try to clarify goals and legnth vs. content, and expand the instructions on how to "standardize" the articles. The guidelines are links we've all seen before; they'd be goners.
So, unless anyone's stictly opposed, I'll start around Friday.--HereToHelp (talk) 02:52, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Sounds fine to me. --t-bte288-c 03:22, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Well I beat you to it!! hehe... I have revamped the 'Instructions' section with specific steps - I think its pretty useful for the basics of improving an article. If anyone wants to rewrite the steps, or add another, then go ahead. :) — Wackymacs 19:27, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Interesting. Those are more general guidelines, not specific to Apple articles. I'm going to revamp them to reflect the stuff we don't already know. I have the same problem with a lot the info on the page. --HereToHelp (talk) 22:13, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
User:Nintendude just created the template {{lowercase-Apple}} and applied it to the article-pages of numerous Apple-related topics in order to display
this
The correct title of this article is {{{1}}}. The initial letter is capitalized due to technical restrictions.
What do you all think about this? Nintendude also created the category Category:Products and services by Apple Computer whose titles are initialed a lowercase letter with subcategory iPods and subsubcategory iPod accessories.
Do we adopt the new lowercase template (there are plenty of articles that use it) and keep the same category name? Do we adopt the template but change the category name to something less egregious? Or, do we revert the uses of the template?--t-bte288-c 05:15, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Obviously, everyone is going to have different views here, but I say revert it. Putting the Apple logo is like a stub, where they need to be sorted as to who can improve them. However, this template is just put on the page and you forget about it. The category is useless, too—and has way too long of a name. If we're going to use a category, how about something shorter? How about the same category as the original? Still, I think we should just drop the category entirely. Most people look at it by an Apple product, or by Apple hardware and software. Nobody looks for lowercase titles, although we can make a note of the use of a lowercase i and then a title, somewhere. But I think it's more or less useless because this is the kind of template you forget about. iTunes is located at ITunes, but it is a very well writen article (next focus, anyone?). It does not need ot be identified as an Apple product more than it is. I say let's revert this because it serves no purpose. However, Nintendude obviously disagrees, so let's see if anyone else does. I'm going to tell the user to explain himself here to seeif we can make sense of this new development.--HereToHelp (talk) 12:35, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree with HereToHelp. — Wackymacs 13:26, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Nintendude has contributions that date from after my message to him, and he still hasn't responded. If he keeps silent, let's make the old template official and have the new one and it's category deleted (if anyone's an admin and they want to "speedy" them, go ahead). --HereToHelp (talk) 19:55, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm posting another bulletin on his talk page. If he doesn't respond in 24 hours we can begin reverting the templates, deleting the new one, and deleting the new category.—t-bte288-c 21:08, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Well, Apple Computer happens to be the champion of products with proper noun names that start with a lowercase letter, hence the spinoff. --Nintendude 21:20, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes, that's certainly true, but is it necessary???--HereToHelp (talk) 21:26, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Let's not have a formal voting, but if nobody, Nintendude or otherwise, objects, I'll put a redirect on his template to the old one and save us all that work.--HereToHelp (talk) 13:05, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
This discussion is getting stale, and I don't think that Nintendude is going to respond. If nobody else objects soon, I'll put a redirect on the new template to the old one.--HereToHelp (talk) 16:55, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
This was discussed on WP:TfD and consensus was reached to delete. See Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/Deleted/December 2005. I went through and changed a number of the articles that use it back to the old plain template:lowercase Hope that helps. I admit I hadn't seen the discussion here when I started doing that, I was working through in the order the what links here page showed them. ++Lar 19:07, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Okay then. Thanks.--HereToHelp (talk) 19:55, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Policy
I have started a discussion about policy concerning our current article focus. Please contribute on the next focus talk page.—t-bte288-c 19:20, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes, this is an important discussion; please don't forget about it because it is not on the main talk page! --HereToHelp (talk) 13:01, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Community Portal/advertising
I've been thinking...the Community portal should have a link to WikiProject Macintosh in the 'Other collaborations' section (in the red box). However, the community portal editing is locked from non-administrators. Do you think we should request on the Talk page of the community portal for it to be added? The project would get a lot more notice if it was on the community portal page. — Wackymacs 20:22, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
No. That section is already too big, there's even talk of linking it and getting the space back. I'm not against more advertising, though. {{macprojectarticle}} gets our name out alot; great idea (although a hassle to put everywhere...why do we have bots?)--HereToHelp (talk) 21:46, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Or not.....--HereToHelp (talk) 12:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Are GUI articles appropriate members of the project?
I just noticed that this project even exists, and was wondering if it would be appropriate to add [[Category:Graphical_user_interface|GUI] things to the project. Obviously, they pertain to Mac OS X and could benefit from standardization with other articles, but the reason I ask is because while there are some that are solely in Mac OS X, others are common across many OS's --Ctachme 03:58, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Good question...great, more work...--HereToHelp (talk) 12:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I've added a legend to {{Timeline of Macintosh models}} as requested in an FAC objection. However, the legend needs the attention of someone more mac savvy than I, to get the names of the hardware lines correct. Please see this template if you get a chance.—t-bte288-c 04:32, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I did not know that wikimedia supported this. Damn, another syntax for me to learn! :p Dread Lord CyberSkull✎☠ 07:38, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I think you need to double check to colors. The colors used in the key for descendants and for education look like two used for the "main" Macs, a category that requires two colors because many of the products overlap. Education is the color used for the eMac and is not in the key where it should be. In fact, taking a second look, every series has two colors for the same reason, yet only one is used in the key. Also, although the Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh was shortened to "TAM", the Color Classic is also over its line ("CC"?). And where the models intersect the dashed red line between new and old world ROM, they push one dash of the line forward until the bar ends. The template has already been redesigned many times recently; it might be best to start from scratch. --HereToHelp (talk) 12:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
HereToHelp, gonna need... your help on this one. I am colorblind :P, so I did my best. —t-bte288-c 13:07, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Oh...sorry...
I don't have the tools at my disposal to create or edit a timeline of this nature. I think it looks fine without the key. I was knitpicking in my last comment, forgive me. On the other hand, if anyone wants to take up responsibility for this template I'd appreciate it.--HereToHelp (talk) 13:39, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm...Looks good with the key, but why on earth are the Mac IIs named 'Apple ][ Family' in the key?, these are the Macintosh II family. — Wackymacs 07:21, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
I think that was an attempt to get the underlines and overlines of Roman Numerals, but yeah, it looks bad. It's better to ignore the horizontal lines and just go with II. The page is really hard to edit with all the code but I can get that. Also: I fixed the color for education. I could not use the rgb values in the key, which have to be web colors. Instead, I found a good lookalike, but it isn't perfect.--HereToHelp (talk) 12:58, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
I like the new key; but is there a way to frame those colors with black? The pastels can be hard to pick out against a white background.--HereToHelp (talk) 13:38, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
Request for assistance
Hey folks... great to see a project on the Mac! I've been asking this a few times, but I wonder if I might not get a better response here: I wrote the CUPS article, but as I don't rightly know much about the Apple implementation, I have not added any info on Mac OS X to the article. This is a real problem. Anyone want to expand the article?
Another thing: I have read the Mac OS X article, but it's a bit slim on underlying architecture. My challenge: get it to the status of Windows 2000! (I wrote this article). Ta bu shi da yu 07:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
Are you sure about this? Shouldn't we be handing these over to [Wikipedia:WikiProject Computer and video games]] or something? Unless it's bundled with the Mac (such as Chess (application), Marble Blast Gold, Nanosaur, Bugdom, and the company Pangea Software), I don't think it's up our alley.--HereToHelp (talk) 14:24, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree... we already have quite a lot of articles that this project wants to "improve to featured article quality" I say we stay small and add more once we have some successes. PaulC/T+ 19:17, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
WikiProject Computer and video games is very unactive and they only seem to pay attention to the most popular PC games as far as I've seen. Game articles are easy to get to featured status because theres so many references and sources and lots of things to write about them (gameplay, story, history, response, tips, trivia, and so on...). By making another list I'm not saying "Hey everyone! You all have to make these featured instantly" Its just something we can work on over time - I don't plan for this project to all happen instantly and start making articles featured at a fast rate - There's no rush, we've got plenty of time! — Wackymacs 19:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes, it's true that we have plenty of time and that the computer games WikiProject probably won't help us. But I still uphold tht we have todraw the line somewhere, and we're not the WikiProject to cover all those games. We should start, at least, with those bundled with the Mac at one time or another.--HereToHelp (talk) 19:49, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Yea, why not? By the way the MS Office article is just Microsoft Office, I don't think we need a specific article for the 2004 mac version. — Wackymacs 21:52, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Notable litigation
There is a lot of space devoted to the lawsuits Apple has been involved in on Apple Macintosh (Apple_Macintosh#Notable_litigation) and Apple Computer (Apple_Computer#Notable_litigation). Would it make sense to truncate both of these sections into a small description (like one or two sentences each) of each major dispute and have a separate article for each? What about a separate article for the litigation in general? Having these self-referential sections in two separate articles is confusing and greatly summarizing this section will improve the already excessive length of both articles. PaulC/T+ 05:16, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
I say put a summary of the most major cases—such as Apple Computer, Inc. v. Microsoft Corp. and put a fuller summary on a new page and have a "main article" link. From there we link to the even more specific articles on individual cases.--HereToHelp (talk) 14:29, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
I had thought about doing this before and I think its a great idea - I suggest we copy the format for the Portal from Portal:History and change it a bit and call it Portal:Apple Macintosh. Remember it will have to be done right and added to Portal:Browse and other places, it seems. I haven't made/worked on a Portal before. — Wackymacs 20:13, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Yeah. When I think about this, one though comes to mind: Oh geat, more work! That doesn't mean I'm not up for it, though. First task: decide on a name. (Gee, that sounds like a good start!) Portal:Apple Macintosh is nice, but somehow I want it to reflect the company as well as the products. --HereToHelp (talk) 20:52, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
As for the code, this page should tell us all we need to know. --HereToHelp (talk) 20:57, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
No, there is already Portal:Information technology for computers. A Mac portal just for Mac articles would be good. — Wackymacs 21:48, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
If you're sure. While we're at it, I'm going to turn Portal:Computers into a redirect to info tech. --HereToHelp (talk) 22:04, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
Should the image on the portal be the first Mac or the current Apple logo?--HereToHelp (talk) 00:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Whatever you like! :D Maybe it could be the iMac G5 instead. I'm rather fed up of looking at the 128k Mac (I have a Mac Classic in my bedroom...as if that isn't enough...). — Wackymacs 00:19, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
*laughs*. Okay then, I'll make sure we keep alternating images and keep things fresh.--HereToHelp (talk) 00:22, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Apple Network Server is on T:DYK at the moment - maybe we should keep track of things like this somewhere? --grm_wnrEsc 21:57, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing this out - so one of our articles had a bit of fame (whoopie!). Who nominated it for the DYK? — Wackymacs 18:01, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
I made a self-nomination. --grm_wnrEsc 18:10, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
That's cool, would be nice if that article had a picture of the server on it though. I've found one here: [1]. — Wackymacs 18:14, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't think that image has a good licensing status... I'm trying to find a good {{promophoto}} of it, no really luck so far. --grm_wnrEsc 18:41, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Hmm, here's a promotional photo of it: [2]. — Wackymacs 19:35, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Added, thanks! --grm_wnrEsc 20:37, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
Man, I was out and missed it! I had to go back about 20 revisions to find it in the page history. Cool, though.--HereToHelp (talk) 19:49, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
You beat me to mentioning that!--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 02:22, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
DYK presently has PowerBook 5300. Since this discussion is bound to be archived sooner or lkater, I've started a list of Main Page articles at Wikipedia:WikiProject Macintosh/Main Page. I don't know where to link it from, though... --grm_wnrEsc 18:20, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Images
I am removing the images from the templates since they are fairuse and fairuse images can neither be used on user boxes nor on templates. JtkieferT | C | @ ---- 22:56, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
I trust our substitute is fine with you?--HereToHelp (talk) 03:24, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
I made an attempt at a better logo at Image:Applepedia.png. Note that this is tagged fairuse for now since I honestly couldn't think of a better tag. Note also that if this one is bad, the crystal Mac OS logo is no better (even if that is tagged as being GPL). --grm_wnrEsc 18:37, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Somebdoy re-added all the images which are in violation of our image usage policy so I have to go back and remove them again... and yes the fairuse image on the stub template does appear to be acceptable if it is indeed part of a free collection that's licensed under a license we can use. JtkieferT | C | @ ---- 00:51, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
This article is part of WikiProject Macintosh. This means that the WikiProject has identified it as an Apple product, but is not currently working to improve it. WikiProject Macintosh itself is an attempt to improve, grow, standardize, and attain featured status for Wikipedia's articles related to Apple Macintosh--HereToHelp (talk) 02:00, 4 January 2006 (UTC) and Apple Computer. We need all your help, so join in as a participant today!
is the current substitute. It has a transparent background, but the license is fair use as well as the other images. So I guess we'll have to eventualy use this:
This article is part of WikiProject Macintosh. This means that the WikiProject has identified it as an article pertaining to Apple Computer, but is not currently working to improve it. WikiProject Macintosh itself is an attempt to improve, grow, standardize, and attain featured status for Wikipedia's articles related to Apple Macintosh and Apple Computer. We need all your help, so join in as a participant today!
We will use the second option because of the license unless a consensus (not formal voting) overtuns it.--HereToHelp (talk) 01:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Actually it's to the right not to the left and yes I have a problem with it since it's fair use and it's a non commercial licensed image which should be avoided if at all possible, the images on the current templates and such should also be removed ASAP since it appears they were not GNU and are actually {{logo}} and as such are ineligible. JtkieferT | C | @ ---- 01:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
You're the one who put it there. Applepedia, then.--HereToHelp (talk) 01:41, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Applepedia is also unacceptable since it's fair use. JtkieferT | C | @ ---- 01:42, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
It is meant for a laugh and then to be used for non commercial reasons. It is fair use as long as we don't make money off of it, and we don't.--HereToHelp (talk) 01:49, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Besides, the copyright holder is Wikipedia, and this is being used for their good. Grm wnr and I will be happy to give up what claim we have to it (nudge, grm wnr, nudge).--HereToHelp (talk) 01:52, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Yes and there's two issues with that. First of all unfortunately even though we'll always (as far as I know) will be a nonprofit organization we still need to have the right open to use per ruling of Jimbo and the board (I don't have a diff or a link off the top of my head) and I've explained several times before the limitations fair use places us under both per the definition of fair use and Wikipedia's rules regarding fair use. JtkieferT | C | @ ---- 01:54, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Alright, what would you suggest for a logo?--HereToHelp (talk) 01:55, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Someone take a photo of an apple with a bite taken out of it. This is so totally not worth the fuss. --grm_wnrEsc 01:59, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. Superimpose a Times New Roman "W" on it.--HereToHelp (talk) 02:00, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
How about the following? It's GNU.--HereToHelp (talk) 02:04, 4 January 2006 (UTC) Update:It was the Macintosh 128k, but it took forever to load so I took it out. The blank template is probably what we'll wind up with. (sigh)--HereToHelp (talk) 02:06, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
This article is part of WikiProject Macintosh. This means that the WikiProject has identified it as an article pertaining to Apple Computer, but is not currently working to improve it. WikiProject Macintosh itself is an attempt to improve, grow, standardize, and attain featured status for Wikipedia's articles related to Apple Macintosh and Apple Computer. We need all your help, so join in as a participant today!
It's good enough for the time being (imo), but I will try to get that photo. I'll carve the "W" into it :) --grm_wnrEsc 02:06, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, except that Applepedia just got deleted. I'l update the news... Make sure you have a transparent background!--HereToHelp (talk) 02:08, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Nah, it's just the image server being shaky again. Deleting an image nukes the description page as well. When it gets better, the 128K should be usable again too. --grm_wnrEsc 02:12, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Then the 128k is okay?--HereToHelp (talk) 02:17, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Between the server and real life constraints, I won't be able to participate in the lively discussion fow awhile (like a day, which is alot when people reply every ten minutes).--HereToHelp (talk) 02:22, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, here's my apple with a bite taken out of it. No "W" though (didn't have a sharp enough knife). What's better, the 128K or this? grm_wnrEsc 22:06, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
128k. Especially now that the background is (my favorite word) transparent. Thanks for the trouble, though. I like applepedia or the grey 3D Apple better, but...that's copyright law.--HereToHelp (talk) 22:14, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I don't believe Image:Applepedia.png should be tagged as fair use. Look at the debate going on a Template talk:User browser:Firefox several images have been proposed to replace the icon, all are variations on the main logo, but are free.--Max
I've been thinking that it might be helpful to start a Wikipedia:Macintosh collaboration. This would mostly be the improvement focus under a new name, but it would
standardize the name so people know what we mean by "improvement focus",
allow us to branch beyond the Wikiproject, and
allow us to put the collaboration on {{COTWs}} and the Comunity Portal and advertise about us and the Wikiproject.
It would be open ended rather thanon a time limit, the goal being (like the focus) to not leave an article without an FAC. If anyone disagrees, though, we can change this aspect. If we can do a portal, why not this?--HereToHelp (talk) 14:50, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Good idea, lets go for it. — Wackymacs 16:33, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
The 2006 Apple Style Guide, something tells me that this could be a very good resource for this project...PaulC/T+ 09:07, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
That's cool, interesting that Apple has made this guide. — Wackymacs 09:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
With the Collaboration techinically now unaffiliated with the WikiProject, we need something to justify our existance. Yes, we're not exactly on AFD yet, but it's always nice to do more. So we live up to our goal to "improve and standardize" the pages we work on. I think it's a great idea.--HereToHelp (talk) 13:11, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
New Navigation template
I completely redid the {{Apple software}} template. It is quite a dramatic change, but since nothing linked there, I didn't think it would be a problem. I modelled it after the hardware template, (in fact, I copied the code.)--
Max
( ☏ | ✒
)
I have started adding this template to all the articles it links to, I also changed it a little bit and added discontinued Apple software. The pro articles still need doing, and some others. — Wackymacs 08:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
I dunno about this. My idea for it was to be like the hardware template, where we only have recent hardware.--MaxTalk(add) • Contributions 03:04, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
May I join?
May I please join WikiProject Macintosh? I am a noobie to Wikipedia and WikiProjects, but I work with Macs and know a bit about them. If it is ok, how can I join? MathStatWoman 09:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Very annoying!
Can someone come up with a better way of posting about the project than the discussion page? I keep getting all excited to see "comments" in an article I wrote, only to find a boilerplate tag. Grrrrr. Maury 22:49, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I'm a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing using these criteria, and we are looking for A-class, B-class, and Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Can you recommend any suitable articles? Please post your suggestions here. Cheers, Shanel 20:31, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
If anyone wants to add anything, go ahead. Also, the difference between B-class and GA-class are arbitrary; if any project member disagrees with me you can switch stuff around.--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 00:26, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I've gone through and updated the list. Many of these have no sources to speak of; yet are (as far as I can tell) accurate. Of course, 1.0 is still way off and we can improve these in the meantime. (In fact, we might have to focus on getting sources before any specific article!)--HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 02:57, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't know where to classify them but HFS and HFS+ are very accurate and have a lot of sources. —Claunia 16:49, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
A lot of the article is just links and lists. I say C-class.--HereToHelp 02:33, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
As for HFS and HFS+, they don't look well sourced to me. Images would be nice. I say C-class for those, too (apparently we already got the really good ones). — Preceding unsigned comment added by HereToHelp (talk • contribs) 02:35, 21 March 2006
Wow, thanks for compiling the list! I've copied your assessment of FA, A-Class and B-Class articles to the WikiProject's section in the Science WikiProjects' listing. Feel free to keep it up to date when you consider articles have improved. Thanks! Titoxd(?!? - help us) 23:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
I've added assessment functions to the project banner. Dread Lord CyberSkull✎☠ 00:07, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
User:Angelic Wraith and me are currently discussing on Talk:Power Macintosh G3 whether the article should be split into two (beige and blue&white). I'm in favor of the split; Angelic Wraith prefers the page as it is now. The result of this discussion could also possibly affect other articles that cover various distinct models with one name that are presently combined into one article (like iMac), so it would be great to have a wider audience and more views. --grm_wnrEsc 11:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
I say keep them together. The exterior changed but not anything major inside. Furthermore, never use the "&" character (I can't find where, but it says so in the manual of style).--HereToHelp 21:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Jobs's racism?
Some newbie (and possibly vandal) added a paragraph to Steve Jobs about how he has been descriminate against minorities. However, he didn't find any sources, so I reverted him on grounds of POVing. But he reverted me back (that link isolates the paragraph) blaming me for having POV issues in favor of Jobs. I'm asking for an informal mediator because this isn't your average "blanking" or "nonsense" vandal.--HereToHelp 21:41, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Updated news section and requested semi-protection
I copy and pasted the news from the template into the news section of the main WikiProject page, because the WikiProject news section was rather outdated. Also, I've requested semi-protection for the Apple Macintosh page.
Semi-protection? Now? Why? --grm_wnrEsc 14:12, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Grm_wnr, it is much too late for semi-protection now. Maybe in January when this article was featured it would have been appropriate, but now it isn't. — Wackymacs 15:16, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
All the news is old. This prject is hanging on the edge of inactivity. What we need is a really good Mac Collaboration and get things moving again. What about iMac or iTunes—something we all know about? In fact iTunes sounds better; some of us use minis or laptops.--HereToHelp 20:57, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Standard naming format for articles on built-in software
What is the standard naming format for articles on built-in software? So far I have seen Exposé (Mac OS X) and Dashboard (software) - we should probably agree on a format for this, and accordingly adjust these article names. My vote is on Mac OS X. What does everyone else think?
The question here is whether to treat Dashboard as an application or a feature of the operating system - in this case, it's a debatable matter. I would support the "(software)" disambiguation for applications, and the "(Mac OS X)" disambiguation for features. "Preview (software)" is clearly an application, for example, and so I think the disambiguation is okay in this case. Actually, I like the style of Safari (web browser) best, which is a bit more specific than usual, but Safari (Mac OS X) sounds just wrong to me. To sum it up, I'd decide this on a case by case basis. Here's a list of all disambiguated links from {{Mac OS X}}:
Over at Wikipedia:Barnstar and award proposals/Proposed Changes, people are reorganizing the personal user awards. They seem to care a lot about whether awards are personal or project-based, and identified the AWABTAOI as a project award. I told them that it's my personal thing so far, but if the project wants to adopt this everybody should head over there and tell them. I don't care much either way. --grm_wnrEsc 18:17, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
MSRP for older machines
On Macintosh IIci I noticed an MSRP of $8800, which seemed ridiculously higher than I remembered, but it seemed everything that Google found agreed. In my closet of things that should have been thrown away long ago :-), I found a Summer 1990 Mac buyer's guide that listed $6369. But I'm not really keen on a secondhand source like that - is there an authoritative source that we should use? Also, prices can change, and there are different configs; is there a rule that people use, like "introduction msrp for cheapest config"? Stan 01:00, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
As someone note really part of WikiProject Macintosh, but wishing to make the community aware of the page I started, I would just like to suggest you take Comparison of MacBook and MacBook Pro under your care. It probably needs double-checked and expanded.
--AlanH 16:58, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Headsup!
I don't know if you're aware or not, but since I feel WikiProjects ought to be taking the lead on issues like this: Template:Applecomputer is up for deletion. You might want it deleted, again I don't know, but I thought you should at least know about it :) --kingboyk 19:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Star Trek
Hello,
I have noticed that the Star Trek project is not noted on any timeline. It was an important step for Macinstosh in the x86 market.
Actually it was a deadend, completely different codebases involved. Stan 22:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
I would agree but it was still a step and it proved to Apple it was possible to go to x86
The Apple Computer article was recently delisted from both WP:GA and WP:V0.5 due to lack of references. Please help out by adding references and standardizing existing ones. PaulC/T+ 21:38, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
itpc://
does anyone know anything about the itpc:// protocol? I can find shit all about it on google. I think it is an iTunes specific protocol for podcasting but i can't find any other technical info about it. Anyone here know anything? We don't have an article on it yet and since i think it is mac related i thought i would raise it here. The bellman 03:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
There is a debate going on at Talk:Dark Castle regarding the allowed use of game icons, from interpreting {{Game-icon}} and WP:FUC. This is mostly a Mac issue because retro games for other platforms do not have any icons. It could set a precedent for icon use in all game articles, please have a look and leave your comments! Arru 20:14, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Themes
There doesn't seem to be much coverage of theming. I put a note on the Appearance Manager talk page. —pfahlstrom 05:42, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
New iPod-related article
I'm not a member of the project, so I didn't really want to put the {{macprojectarticle}} template for it on the talk page, but I figured you guys would want to take a look at iPod sharing, an article I just created about the recent (if scattered) trend of people briefly switching iPod jacks to listen to others' music. It was covered in Wired about three years ago and such, and apparently is relatively common on select college campuses, so I figured it was notable enough for Wikipedia. And if nothing else, kind of interesting in and of itself. ;) Have at it, folks! Runa27 05:03, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Right here. If I thought there was any chance that these articles would ever be expanded beyond their single or double paragraph stubbiness I wouldn't have merged them. AlistairMcMillan 21:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Looks like a list now. I'd prefer them separate, with a category listing them all. - Samsara (talk • contribs) 13:33, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I noticed today that Image:Appleworks.gif (a screenshot of the Apple II version of AppleWorks) is tagged with the mac-software-screenshot license template. This doesn't seem quite right (an Apple II isn't a Mac), but I thought I'd check in here and see if there were opinions or a decision somewhere before I changed it to the generic software-screenshot template. I doubt there will be enough Apple II software screenshots uploaded to warrant it having its own template. -- Hawaiian717 00:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Unless it was emulated on a Mac, then go ahead. As for the article it's in, the Apple II AppleWorks should be a separate article. Dread Lord CyberSkull✎☠ 00:56, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
I would argue that even if it were emulated, since no part of the emulation software is visible, it still would not be appropriate to tag it as Mac software. Consider Virtual PC or Parallels Desktop running Windows on top of Mac OS X. If the screenshot included the VPC/Parallels window, then I would say it would be appropriate to tag it as Mac software. If, however, the screenshot was cropped so only the Windows applications were visible, then I would tag it as Windows software. If the article is split, I would suggest AppleWorks (Apple II) as a less awkward title. -- Hawaiian717 15:00, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
It was emulated, but you're right. Generic would be better. I'll change it. -- Jrc 22:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Mac OS and Mac OS X categories?
I'm wondering if we should split the software categories into Mac OS software and Mac OS X software categories? My argument is since that X is a completely different OS software should be categorized accordingly. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CyberSkull (talk • contribs) 20:07, September 21, 2006
You don't have to apply that template to yourself...a few minutes of time code doesn't matter...but I agree with the proposal. Still, they should be linked together by see alsos or whatever.
I've done most of the articles. All that's needed is the fine grain work (200-2003 is sometimes hard to distinguish). Also, the games need a good looking over. Dread Lord CyberSkull✎☠ 01:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Common Unix Printing System is up for a featured article review. Detailed concerns may be found here. Please leave your comments and help us address and maintain this article's featured quality. Sandy 14:38, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Project directory
Hello. The WikiProject Council has recently updated the Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory. This new directory includes a variety of categories and subcategories which will, with luck, potentially draw new members to the projects who are interested in those specific subjects. Please review the directory and make any changes to the entries for your project that you see fit. There is also a directory of portals, at User:B2T2/Portal, listing all the existing portals. Feel free to add any of them to the portals or comments section of your entries in the directory. The three columns regarding assessment, peer review, and collaboration are included in the directory for both the use of the projects themselves and for that of others. Having such departments will allow a project to more quickly and easily identify its most important articles and its articles in greatest need of improvement. If you have not already done so, please consider whether your project would benefit from having departments which deal in these matters. It is my hope that all the changes to the directory can be finished by the first of next month. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit to the entries for your project before then. If you should have any questions regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Thank you. B2T2 00:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Policy
Can we come up with a policy for voting on our next focus? Should the voting be unanimous, majority, or plurality? How long does the election stay open? Should one user be able to nominate more than one article? (I think this is contradictory.) Who decides when a focus is no longer a focus? Does it have to go to FAC after being a focus? Sorry, I know that was a lot of questions...—t-bte288-c 19:17, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Well, we pick the focus here. There will be no templates (besides {{macprojectarticle}}) to signify a focus nominee or focus elect (like President elect) because I'm not up to creating new templates, keeping track of them, and adding a new category. A focus stays a focus for as long as it takes for the Project to decide it is worth to submit as a FAC. The whole point of a focus is that when we're done it's featured, so yes, that's our ultimate goal. I went ahead and nominated three articles, but that's since we're starting off and I want to give people some choice (in the future, I agree with you that it shouldn't be allowed). The voting will most likely go by plurality. As I outlined, we have about half a dozen or so very good but not featured articles that would be the easiest to bring up to featured. I think Wackymac's goal of having everything featured is too far out; those crucial five or six is more reasonable. The thing is, we need to address just about everything in Category:WikiProject Macintosh articles and bring them up to a respectable, though to necessarily featured, level. Sorry, I know that was a lot of answers...--HereToHelp (talk) 19:37, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
I tried to make the project as simple as possible by nominating the hot topics one by one as we get them featured. I did not really want use voting like WP:AID and WP:COTW do. An article that is the focus should be the focus until it is featured. Once we've done all the hot topics... I'll compile a new version of the hot topics from the lists. If we use a voting system, the entire process would be slowed down. Having everything featured would be nice, but not everything can be - But there is enough information on the hot topics so those can become featured. In the end I guess about half the articles we're working on will become featured and half will become good articles. — Wackymacs 20:17, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
All that work down the drain...oh, whatever. How about a pool of future articles in the todo list that people can work on with knowledge that there's a good ammount of info already there, and that we'll get to them pretty quickly? Keep the pool small (like the four that we have nominated) and either A) they can be ordered so we have them picked out ahead of time or B) someone just goes ahead and selects one, and other articles can be added through a similar informal method to be put back in the pool.--HereToHelp (talk) 20:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
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![[2]](http://shiner.info/mirror/mirror.apple.com-servers/networkserver.gif){kind=link}
