Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Drag Race/Archive 11

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RuPaul’s Drag Race Night of the Living Drag

FYI: RuPaul’s Drag Race Night of the Living Drag

---Another Believer (Talk) 18:29, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Shall I make a draft article? – JuanGLP (talk) 13:24, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Not until we're sure there's enough secondary coverage for a standalone article. I was sharing mostly as an FYI and in case project members wants to update the articles of participating queens. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:19, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
Okie dokie! Just making sure. Also check the subject down below here! – JuanGLP (talk) 14:25, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Request for page protection

FYI, I've submitted a request for temporary page protection for Canada's Drag Race (season 3) due to persistent vandalism. ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:57, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

After looking at the page history, @Another Believer, it's definitely warranted! --Kbabej (talk) 20:02, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

DR Holland?

Looking through the Drag Race Franchise page, every international version is "active" (with either another season announced, in casting, in filming, or being broadcast) *other* than Chile (where "The switch" was never really treated as a normal version) and Holland. Does anyone know if DR Holland has been announced to be stopped or any other related info?Naraht (talk) 14:57, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

God Shave the Queens

Unresolved

Is a project member more familiar with episode table construction able to help at Talk:God Shave the Queens? ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:06, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Vanjie: 24 Hours of Love

Resolved

Not specifically RPDR, but I've created a stub for Vanjie: 24 Hours of Love if any project members are interested in (tangentially) related programming. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:59, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Anyone able to add a title card or promotional artwork to the infobox? ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:24, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
Added infobox and episodes, just need someone to add — JuanGLP (talk) 12:49, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
Already updated the page. There is an episode list with contestant progress. Image will come soon. — JuanGLP (talk) 18:13, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer: I have added an image for the series. — JuanGLP (talk) 19:25, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
@JuanGLP Thank you! I will mark as resolved and archive this section soon. ---Another Believer (Talk) 21:14, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Brazil, Germany, Mexico

---Another Believer (Talk) 19:57, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Drag Race Mexico

Hi everyone!

I’m Juan and I am happy to join this WikiProject! I just wanted to let y’all know that I started a draft article named: Draft:Drag Race Mexico. I know it’s a bit early, but I wanna get ready. If there’s more sources about the upcoming casting calls for the upcoming shows, add them! — JuanGLP (talk) 23:30, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

A bit early, but it can't hurt to have it in draftspace. And the "preceding show" will probably need to be updated since my guess is that the decision for order of airing between Mexico, Brazil and Germany may not have even been made yet.Naraht (talk) 23:32, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Well… my guess is that: the three upcoming shows my air in the same year, maybe either in 2023-24…? But that’s my guess. — JuanGLP (talk) 23:36, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the joining the project! I agree, a bit early, but no harm working in the draft space. The onus will be on you to keep maintaining the draft and moving into main space appropriately when the time's right, otherwise the page might be deleted after no edits (I think 6 months?) or editors might just turn the redirect into a stub. Just an FYI and welcome! ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:53, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
You're right, @Another Believer! It's six months, so best to add info to it every few months (at least). Welcome, @JuanGLP! --Kbabej (talk) 00:05, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, okay no problem! This is the first time to react with other editors, even I started editing since December 2020. But thank you all for welcoming me! And remember children, we’re all born naked and the rest is drag! JuanGLP (talk) 01:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

I *think* that the tendency has been to move it out of draft space when we either have queens announced or the date of the first show. I'm not sure we've come to a conclusion as to whether naming the judges/host is enough for mainspace, but don't worry, we'll kick it around on this page.Naraht (talk) 02:32, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Concern. *Names* of the new Germany/Mexico/Brazil shows.

In Drag Race (Franchise) and the redirects, we are assuming that the names are going follow the "France/Philippines" pattern, i.e. Drag Race <countryname in English>. But I *really* don't think we've got any evidence from the Primary source. The announcements from Wow are simply a casting call *in the language*. So for Germany it is Deutchland mentioned, not Germany *and* the one for Brazil is Brasil (the proper spelling in Portuguese). Should the names on the Franchise page be changed to Citation needed? (I thought I'd ask here rather than on the talk page for the Franchise.Naraht (talk) 07:23, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

You're right, we are making assumptions about the titles. The redirects Drag Race Mexico, Drag Race Germany, etc, are helpful because they are possible search terms and should direct users to the franchise page, at least for now. If you prefer, we could simply use "TBA" for the "Name" column over at Drag Race (franchise) until the series titles are confirmed. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:21, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
Done. I'm wondering when we first found out that the show in Belgium was officially going to be called Drag Race Belgique. I'm working my way through worldofwonder.com to see if I can find anything for the new countries.Naraht (talk) 15:15, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
Ok, thanks, but don't spend too much time digging unnecessarily. Collectively, we're good about updating entries as sources publish new details. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:28, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
Just did a google search on site:worldofwonder.com mexico -malta , and *only* got the casting page. (There are a lot of hits on Mexico, but all but the casting page have malta as well since they are all selling stuff and listing all of the countries you can send to, so I picked Malta as a country WoW certainly would sell to, but would be *highly* unlikely to have a show planned for).Naraht (talk) 15:51, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
According to the casting calls for Mexico/Germany/Brasil, the casting process will end on August 26th, so I'm imagining end of '22/beginning of '23 more press will start leaking that could include series names... I'll keep an eye on German press every few months (nothing yet) to see if anything pops up about that series. Tajaditas (talk) 20:36, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
Thanx. Given the casting/filming/editing cycle, especially in a new country, I don't expect *any* of these three to actually premiere in 2022.Naraht (talk) 03:35, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Plastique Tiara (drag queen) created, *needs* evaluation.

Created by DavidAnstiss and moved by that userfrom draft to mainspace at Plastique Tiara (Drag queen) , I corrected the disambiguation term from Drag queen to drag queen (Plastique Tiara (drag queen)) (dab terms aren't capitalized, see Denali (drag queen) for example. I'm concerned that it should have been left in Draft until it could be evaluated. Plastique Tiara has been given *full* protection and would need to be deleted by an administrator before the article is moved to that place. Please express opinions on article here.Naraht (talk) 17:18, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

My personal evaluation is that the article needs a lot of trimming down as there are facts and phrasing which aren't appropriate for Wikipedia, but that what is *left* after that is done may be.Naraht (talk) 17:21, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
Adding Onel5969 who was heavily involved in the AFD.Naraht (talk) 17:33, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
We need to be discussing the Plastique Tiara page, not this new page. Plastique Tiara has an extensive article and AfD history. I've redirected the new page to Plastique Tiara. ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:29, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
The re-direct just goes to Ru-Paul's Drag Race - not to her page. DavidAnstiss (talk) 21:51, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
See also: User_talk:DavidAnstiss § Plastique_Tiara

If there's to be another notability discussion, please do so here: Talk:Plastique Tiara. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:33, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

I hope DavidAnstiss kept a copy because the new article just got *nuked*.Naraht (talk) 19:57, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
I've requested restoration of the original article history. I'd bet she is actually notable by now. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:59, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
Where is the article now. I don't understand. DavidAnstiss (talk) 21:47, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
DavidAnstissAs of right now, the article that you created and moved from draftspace (which was sitting at Plastique Tiara (drag queen) after I moved it has been completely deleted by JBW. It was a recreation of an article Plastique Tiara that was deleted (and turned into a redirect to RPDR season 11 with an Article for Deletion. (Under the name Plastique Tiara). Hopefully, JBW will move *that* one back to Draft space so that it can be reviewed (some of the things in there aren't suitable for mainspace) and after review, we can move it back to mainspace in a way that will be proper. The problem is that an article for the queen was created, deleted due to AFD and recreated a couple of times.
TL;DR The article on Plastique Tiara was deleted because having an article about that queen has gotten ugly/confusing due to creations and deletions in a way that wouldn't be true for other queens such as Mercedes Iman Diamond.Naraht (talk)

Going Forward on a possible Plastique Tiara article

I think the next step is going to *have* to be a Plastique Tiara article in Draftspace, whether that is a restoration of the one that DavidAnstiss created or one started fresh that a few of us can work on. I think we are going to need at *least* two or three people here and probably Onel5969 (as AFD proposer for the last version). Notability can also be discussed at Talk:Plastique Tiara.Naraht (talk)

Instead of creating or recreating a draft page, I think we should just have a notability discussion at Talk:Plastique Tiara. This will be the best way to overturn the (currently locked) redirect, assuming editors deem the subject notable. Creating new pages is part of the problem here, so let's not add to the mix. ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:28, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Please comment at Talk:Plastique_Tiara#Notability. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:30, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

As of now, I'm the only one to comment and give sources. please add if you've got them. (Note, as of now, we are at 2 articles from good newspaper related websites and 3 interviews. That *may* be enough, but not a slamdunk.Naraht (talk) 15:31, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
I've shared some additional sources on the article's talk page. IMO, we should have a page for Plastique Tiara. I'm not sure how to have the page protection removed, or to start a second notability discussion if the first must be overturned, but I hope we can get permission to expand an entry soon. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:57, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

See related discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2022_September_28#Plastique_Tiara ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:05, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Collaboration of the Month: Cherry Valentine

Cherry Valentine is the Collaboration of the Month for October 2022. Happy editing! ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:25, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Rebecca Glasscock at Articles for Deletion (AfD)

Feel free to review Rebecca Glasscock and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rebecca Glasscock. ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:37, 14 October 2022 (UTC)

I responded there. It's interesting she has a lengthy entry in a gay dictionary; I would not have guessed that. --Kbabej (talk) 20:43, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
The article has been redirected. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:03, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Edit warring at Drag Race Italia (season 2)

I've requested temporary page protection at Drag Race Italia (season 2) because of vandalism and edit warring. Project members are invited to discuss the back and forth on the Talk page. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:12, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Precious Paula Nicole created

Precious Paula Nicole winner of DR Philippines has been created. Naraht (talk) 03:43, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

@Naraht, infobox is created with its televison appearence. — JuanGLP (talk) 15:53, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Upcoming + Renewed

So major news was announced throughout WOW's social media. — JuanGLP (talk) 23:31, 24 October 2022 (UTC)


Drag Race France - Season two announced, including its casting call.

Drag Race Philippines (Untucked) - Both seasons renewed, also it is a bit too early to create a season one page (unlike DRFR).

Drag Race Sverige (Untucked) - Main season coming soon with its companion series.

Drag Race España: All Stars - New show set to premiere after DRE3 in 2023.

I've forked out Drag Race Philippines (season 1) ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:56, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer: Isn't a bit too early to fork DRPH season one? Shouldn't we wait until the contestants are announced. (Might be a long time.) — JuanGLP (talk) 00:02, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
It would be early to create a page for season 2, but I created a page for season 1. ---Another Believer (Talk) 00:09, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer: I meant season ONE, but it's okay. — JuanGLP (talk) 00:56, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

vs the World

Re: Draft:Drag Race vs the World. Are there any sources specifically about the concept, Drag Race vs the World?

If not, then we should not be creating an article for this topic. As far as I'm aware, there's simply UK vs the World and Canada vs the World, but these are both just spin-offs. There's no series called "Drag Race vs the World".

Can other editors please weigh in here, and can we consider updating Drag Race (franchise) so the vs spin-offs appear in the spin-offs table instead of the "Drag Race franchises by country" table? ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:34, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

I could re-edit the franchise page and move both of those spin-offs under the "Spin-off shows". Thought aren't they related to RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars? Both (well the UK) spin-off(s) do follow the All Stars format. — JuanGLP (talk) 15:24, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
No. UK vs the World is a spin-off of Drag Race UK and Canada vs. the World is a spin-off of Canada's Drag Race. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:27, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

I've flagged the Drag Race vs. the World draft for deletion with JuanGLP's permission. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:49, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Drag Race España: All Stars

The production company behind Drag Race España confirmed that there will be an All Stars season for the Spanish competition. I have made a redirect for Drag Race España: All Stars to Drag Race España. It appears to be the same thing for RDR All Stars (where it is exclusively for Paramount+), the All Stars will be only on the production company's streaming service. — JuanGLP (talk) 16:18, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Okay so I just watched the IG Live from the production company, they say DRE All Stars is scheduled to premiere after DRE Season 3. — JuanGLP (talk) 16:24, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

Renaming Tyra Sanchez

In July 2020, I tried to request to rename Tyra Sanchez to James Ross (performer) because there is a lot sources confirmed that person is no longer called Tyra Sanchez. He quoted "For those asking, Tyra Sanchez has fulfilled her purpose in my life. I, James Ross, no longer want to be referred to as Tyra, Tyra Sanchez, her, she, girl, or queen." This is really purpose of rename this article. Sunrise In Brooklyn ✉ 14:50, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

You proposed that on the article’s talk page and the consensus was that it should not be renamed. —Kbabej (talk) 18:47, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Template for RuPaul's Secret Celebrity Drag Race?

Resolved

Would Template:RuPaul's Secret Celebrity Drag Race be helpful? There are now multiple seasons with many notable people involved. Of course, we'll learn more as season 2 airs soon, but something for us to consider in the meantime. ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:05, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm sort of against, but mostly due to the question of who to include. The "celebrities"? The "Mentors"? The "Judges"?Naraht (talk) 17:44, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Good questions. Maybe we can compare to Template:The Masked Singer (American TV series)? ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:57, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Probably a good comparison.Naraht (talk) 02:31, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer and @Naraht: Here is a sample of what we can create for this spin-off template. Also, the second season had a different format, with only three "Queen Supremes". In the meantime, if anyone agrees with this template, shortly after I'll add the mentors from season one.
I've sorted entries alphabetically by last name (except with AJ displayed last since he is the sole winner of season 2). Do this work for you? ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:52, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
It is no problem, I always thought is was by first name. If you think it is ready, I could create it. — JuanGLP (talk) 15:04, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer, when it is created, I will shortly add the other mentors from season one. — JuanGLP (talk) 15:08, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
We sort queens by first name since they don't (usually) have "true" last names. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:11, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Oh okay, now I know! Anyways, the mentors are added and the template is added to the article. — JuanGLP (talk) 15:19, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
@JuanGLP Do you need help adding this template to all of the entries? Generally, navigation templates should appear on all of the articles included in the template. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:27, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer, I added the template to the series (and its seasons). Though, I might need help. — JuanGLP (talk) 15:30, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Ok, I've added the template to all of the articles for contestants, winners, mentors, and judges, too. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:44, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Still missing on some articles about mentors such as Bob the Drag Queen. Complete https://templatetransclusioncheck.toolforge.org/index.php?lang=en&name=Template%3ARuPaul%27s+Secret+Celebrity+Drag+Race .Naraht (talk) 15:48, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer, Thank you very much! — JuanGLP (talk) 15:57, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Marking this section as resolved and archiving. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:04, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Sourcing in placement tables

When we first started adding sources to placement tables to minimize editwarring over how contestants were placed, the consensus at the time was that the source needed to be a third-party episode recap in something like Vulture, the AV Club or Xtra! -- but at some point that seems to have shifted to "just automatically fill out a {{cite episode}} template with the title and date of the episode itself and be done with it".

The thing is, that's not a good approach for sourcing placements. Firstly, it fails to be quickly verifiable without actually watching the entire episode to figure out if it was right or not -- whereas any reliable episode recap will clearly name the winners, the bottom two and the sashay within a short read. And secondly, it also messes up the balance of reliable vs. primary sourcing in the season article itself -- the references get transcluded into the season article right alongside the template, and thus help to function as referencing for the season, so using the show's own episodes as circular sourcing in the placement tables instead of reliable source episode recaps has a very heavy impact on whether the article is properly sourced or not.

For example, RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars (season 7) has 17 footnotes, of which 12 are its own episodes metasourcing themselves -- which means it's currently based 70 per cent on primary sourcing that isn't support for notability at all, and even the very few third party sources actually in the article aren't entirely reliable or GNG-worthy ones either (e.g. Mashable, Digital Spy), meaning that somebody could genuinely argue that the season wasn't notable at all if circular verification of itself is almost all the sourcing it actually has to offer. Which is the most important reason why the sources need to be third-party recaps from real media, rather than just sourcing each episode to itself: showing that the season got covered by reliable sources is a critical component of establishing that the season is even notable enough to have its own standalone article in the first place, because the sourcing in the placement tables frequently accounts for considerably more than half of all the sourcing in the season's article itself. And similarly, the fact that the reliable source recaps I had already added to the Canada's Drag Race (season 2) placement table in the past recently got replaced with "episode metasourcing itself" citations also shifted that article from "15 reliable and properly notability-supporting citations and one Twitter tweet" to "10 primary sources, just four reliable or notability-supporting citations and a Twitter tweet" — but its balance of sourcing also has to be the former, not the latter, because an article that's depending two-thirds on primary-sourcing the topic to itself, instead of reliable or notability-supporting coverage about it, isn't actually establishing the topic's notability at all.

And for added bonus, the idea that each episode was acceptable as circular metaverification of its own content, with no need of any third-party sourcing, was precisely what got us into a lot of the problems we've had in Drag Race placement tables in the past -- the endless arguments about whether somebody was "high vs. safe", or "low vs. safe", often hinged on the idea that the episode itself circularly metaverified whatever position the edit warrior wanted it to, which is precisely why we started requiring independent and third party verification to be added to the placement tables in the first place.

So no, we cannot just "source" the placements in each Drag Race episode to the episode itself -- it has to be sourced to third party coverage about the episode in reliable sources other than the show itself, such as an episode recap in the likes of Vulture, the AV Club or Xtra. I'll grant that for some of the very old seasons, episode recaps or other sources might not be possible to locate anymore, and thus sourcing the episode to itself should be accepted as a last-resort move if third party sources can't be found — but when legitimate third party sources can be located, they have to be preferred over just reflexively sourcing each episode to itself across the board. Bearcat (talk) 16:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

RPDR policy on given names

After looking at the way that the French and Italian Wikipedias are doing RPDR:Canada Season 3, I've noticed that the include the legal(?) names of the queens as well. It appears that it is policy, although I'm not sure where it is written that these are *not* included in the RPDR articles.


To pick a queen who is both notable and for whom their birth/legal name is open and as far as I know not even close to being a deadname, Bianca Del Rio. Her legal name "Roy Haylock" isn't anywhere on a page linked from from the RPDR template, but is on the page about her as well as that of some movies that they have done.

The effect of this is that if a queen does not have a page about her, there isn't a place on en.wiki for their legal name. As an example, the French page for Season 14 fr:Saison_14_de_RuPaul's_Drag_Race includes that the legal name for June Jambalaya is Tyron'e Porter. (Now they pull that from the fandom page which means it isn't referenced well enough for en.wiki, but that's not relevant for this.) there is no place on en.wiki for that piece of information.

Not sure we've written that down anywhere, but I wanted to point it out for discussion so at worst, we can point editors to this in the archives....Naraht (talk) 16:38, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello @Naraht. If I'm understanding your point, couldn't we just use the legal name as a redirect to the target page? I don't really see any reason we'd need a legal name on the project elsewhere than just their page. No one is going to search for Miz Cracker by looking through RPDR articles for "Maxwell Heller", although that's Cracker's legal name. They don't appear on the show with their legal name, just their drag name. But maybe I'm not understanding what you're asking (which is entirely possible as the coffee is slow to hit this morning). --Kbabej (talk) 15:51, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
I have *no* problem with Maxwell Heller being a redirect to Miz Cracker, especially since "Maxwell Heller" is mentioned on the Miz Cracker page. However, in the event of June Jambalaya, June Jamabalaya is a redirect to Season 14. Tyron'e Porter, OTOH, doesn't belong as a redirect to June Jamabalaya or to Season 14. Unless June Jamabalaya gets an actual page, we aren't in the situation of Miz Cracker.Naraht (talk) 17:52, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Then can't an editor just create a redirect to Season 14 and then update when/if an article for June is created in the future? That seems pretty uncontroversial to me. I still don't really understand what you're asking for. If you want a redirect for the legal name, can't you just create it and direct to the season if there isn't a standalone BLP? --Kbabej (talk) 17:55, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
The problem is the lack of context. Let's say that Tyron'e Porter is made a redirect to Season 14. That doesn't indicate anything about whose legal name it is, could be June Jumbalaya's, could be Orion's story. A redirect should make sense when looking at the page that it redirects to. There would be no way within Wikipedia to understand why Tyron'e Porter belongs as a redirect to Season 14 and Samuel Rodanto doesn't because the text "Tyron'e Porter" isn't mentioned anywhere on the Season 14 page.Naraht (talk) 18:10, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Why would that matter, though? It doesn't matter if there isn't context on the target page, because if someone is searching by legal name, they already know who the participant in the show is, right? --Kbabej (talk) 18:24, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Maintenance more than anything. Why should an editor need to do research *off* of wikipedia to tell which or both out of Tyron'e Porter and Samuel Rodanto really belong as a redirect to Season 14? Add that, the Principle of Least Surprise, where a user shouldn't have to guess why they ended up on that page. Yes, redirects are cheap, but I see no benefit to having a redirect for that. If they know who the participant on the show is, then I'm not sure why the legal name would be looked for rather than Season 14.Naraht (talk) 19:13, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
To me it’s complete fancruft. I can’t see any reasonable reason someone would search for Tyron'e Porter over June J. I just did, and there’s nothing really online. I guess I get your argument, but it seems like a lot of work for no payoff. At the end of the day of the contestant isn’t notable under their drag persona, they certainly aren’t notable out of drag. It just seems superfluous to me. —Kbabej (talk) 19:32, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
OK, I've officially reached "I have no idea what we were discussing then". Please help me understand what you disagree with in my original posting.Naraht (talk) 20:24, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
My understanding of what you've written is that you want a listing of the legal names on the season page (like the French page), right? Is that what it boils down to? If that is what you're actually wanting to discuss (since I'm having a hard time parsing out your request from the original posting), my basic argument is it seems like superfluous overkill of info. No one is searching for June Jumbalaya's legal name. --Kbabej (talk) 20:27, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
No, I don't. I was simply noting it as an indication that as a WP we've decided that they *don't* belong on the the en season pages, but only on the pages about the queens, if they exist. Since June Jumbalaya has no page, there is no place on enwiki for a mention of Tyron'e Porter. The decision on fr and it have decided differently.Naraht (talk) 14:15, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Template:RuPaul's Drag Race now US only?

In splitting out the templates, we appear to have that template be USA only, but there are at least two entries in related which don't fit. One of them is that DragCon UK is linked to (along with the LA and NYC drag cons) and the other is whether RuPaul's Drag Race terminology is exclusively American (the fact that Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve and Talent is included would tend to say no). Should either RuPaul's DragCon UK be moved to the UK, or should all of these get moved to the franchise level template.Naraht (talk) 03:44, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

I think these should be moved to the franchise template. If RuPaul's Drag Race terminology is not specific to the US then should we move to Drag Race terminology? Hell, should we move this project to WikiProject Drag Race? ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:17, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Snatch Game is also not specific to the US. ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:24, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
See related page move discussions here:
Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:05, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

"Related" Entries

(If I don't mention it, I *completely* feel it should remain in the US specific)

  • Events, I *think* Drag Con (all of them) should move to the Franchise, I think Drag Race Live and Werq the World are probably OK to leave in the US specific. While the Werq the World tour has left the US (Ottawa at least), it has *always* been RPDR (US) queens.
  • Judges, leave it the way it is.
  • Pit Crew, already limited to those on RPDR(US)
  • Spin offs, currently limited to those that are US, *BUT* that gets back to the question as to whether the DRPH Untucked belongs on the same page as the USA Untucked. If it is, then that should be moved to Franchise
  • Other,
    • Awards and nominations appear to be only those for RPDR (US) and RPDR All Stars, and I've seen awards for specific nation version on the nation version page, so that one should be OK.
    • Discography is *definitely* across national versions. Should be moved to Franchise and rename.
    • Producer Entertainment Group, either belongs in Franchise or (probably better) completely removed from the template. covers queens from RPDR (US), RPDR(UK) and people who have never done
    • Queen of the Universe- I *think* it belongs in US, but spinoffs. It is probably most similar to Celebrity Drag Race.
      • I've never thought of Queen of the Universe as a spin-off. Same producers, sure, but we'd need plenty of sources to confirm "spin-off" status. ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:40, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
    • Rusical - Move to Franchise (non-US episodes are part of it)
    • Snatch Game - Move to Franchise (non-US episodes are part of it)
    • Terminology - Most of the terms are US, but some are across (Charisma, Uniqueness, Nerve and Talent), so not sure. I agree if it moves, it should be renamed.
      • Support move to "Drag Race (franchise)" template. ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:40, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
    • Tongue popping - Not sure. From Alyssa Edwards, but article talks about one of the UK queens as well.
      • I'd be ok with moving to the "Drag Race (franchise)" navbox, similar to the terminology entry. ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:40, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
    • World of Wonder - This probably belongs in the Franchise
    • WOW Presents Plus - This definitely belongs in Franchise

Naraht (talk) 14:57, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

@Naraht I would support you updating the templates as described. Are you comfortable doing this? ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:26, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer Sure. I'll try to do in the next week.Naraht (talk) 17:13, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Moved

I moved the following entries from the US to the franchise.

  • Discography
  • RuPaul's DragCon LA/NYC/UK
  • Rusical
  • Snatch Game
  • Terminology
  • Tongue popping
  • World of Wonder
  • WOW Presents Plus

Naraht (talk) 15:48, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

checkY Thank you! ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:52, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
I'd also support moving Producer Entertainment Group to the franchise template. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:55, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
@Naraht: Are you still working on this, or do you need these notes? If not, I will archive this section. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:54, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Another Believer done, I think.Naraht (talk) 15:44, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
I've moved Producer Entertainment Group to Template:Drag Race. I will consider this section resolved for now and archive. ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:31, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Time to split Template:RuPaul's Drag Race?

I think it might be time to overhaul Template:RuPaul's Drag Race. In my opinion, one template is no longer best for displaying all Wikipedia entries related to Drag Race. There's simply to many articles, and now too many fields are blurring (some queens are contestants and judges, Jinx won her season + All Stars, etc). I suggest we make Template:RuPaul's Drag Race specific to the parent article RuPaul's Drag Race (United States).

This overhaul would require us to have other navboxes for some specific franchises. I propose we create the following:

With these and Template:Drag Race, which I've just created based on Template:Big Brother, we could severely trim down Template:RuPaul's Drag Race and be more helpful to readers as a U.S.-specific template. We'll need to shuffle around the judges and some other entries in the "Related" section, but shouldn't be too difficult. Thoughts? Concerns? Help? Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 04:28, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Update: I went ahead and created the 9 proposed navigation templates. Since all of the links in the International section now appear in one of these navboxes, I've gone ahead and trimmed this template. I still need to trim down the Judges section and see what other Related entries need sorting. Then, assuming there's no major pushback from project members, I will go through and update which navboxes are used across all RPDR articles. We might want to discuss whether or not to create a separate Template:RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars. ---Another Believer (Talk) 05:18, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Update: I've trimmed the Judges section. I believe this template is now specifically focused on the U.S. I've also updated all RPDR articles so they display the correct navbox(es). I know I've been bold here by making major changes without community approval beforehand, but I very much welcome feedback, questions, and concerns (and of course I'm willing to revert if editors do not prefer these changes). However, I'd like to think this aids navigation. Still on the fence about separating out All Stars. ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:42, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer, thank you for taking this on. I completely agree the navboxes needed splitting out; the original was becoming quite unwieldy. If you need any additional help, let me know - although you seem to have everything down! Thanks again! --Kbabej (talk) 14:57, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Another Believer I *agree* with the splitout. Thank You! We'll have to take a look at what characteristics a national show would need for its own template (i.e. should we have Belgium and the Philippines have them now given we have a season and know the judges), but that decision doesn't affect what Canada (to pick one) should look like now.Naraht (talk) 15:53, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Thanks for your feedback. Keep in mind, navigation templates should only be created when there are enough entries to justify. I don't think we need templates for Belgium or the Philippines quite yet because those would only have a couple articles about judges. We should wait until there are at least season and/or contestant entries to add, too. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:01, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Cleanup

I thought I'd list the cleanup and questions that I've done so that we have them in one place and I'm willing to undo if inappropriate

  • Brooke Lynn Hytes was changed to RuPaul Canada only, I've added the trimmed USA only one to that.
  • Blu Hydrangea was left with the trimmed USA, I've changed to UK.
  • Paolo Ballestros was left with the trimmed USA, I commented it out (Not sure what we want to do with the Belgian and Filipino Judges until they get their own template
  • Template:RuPaul's Drag Race Down Under and Template:RuPaul's Drag Race UK link to pit crew, but pit crew doesn't link back, not sure the proper way to deal with that, if at all.

Naraht (talk) 16:09, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

@Naraht I agree with your changes to Brooke Lynn Hytes and Blu Hydrangea. I removed the template from Paolo Ballestros (which you commented out). I've added the Down Under and UK templates to the Pit Crew article. I'm not sure what you mean by "Not sure what we want to do with the Belgian and Filipino Judges". I don't think there's any action needed here. Thanks for your help and please continue to discuss ways to update/improve these templates. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:14, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Another Believer Also added the trimmed US to The Vivienne and will add her to the trimmed US as a contestant there.Naraht (talk) 16:16, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
But she was a contestant on All Stars, not the regular U.S. show. See, this is why I'm considering the All Stars template. Also applies to Pangina. See related discussion below. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:18, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Yes, she was. Pangina was never on All Stars. She is simply on two templates, just like Brooklyn Hytes.Naraht (talk) 16:21, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
@Naraht My bad! Just so we know, is The Vivienne the only contestant who has appeared in an international iteration of the show as well as All Stars? None other come to mind, so just making sure she's the only exception we need to consider at this time. (Not thinking about judges right now, just contestants.) ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:31, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Another Believer I believe you are correct. AS + Intl.Naraht (talk) 17:38, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer, is there anything else to do for this section? If there isn't, I think it should be archived. — JuanGLP (talk) 14:34, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Thoughts on separating out All Stars?

Do we want a separate Template:RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars? I'm on the fence... on one hand it'd be helpful to separate the two shows so they can display their own seasons, contestant/winners, and episodes, but on the other hand there would be a lot of duplication since many contestants have competed on both. Thoughts? ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:17, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm on the fence as well. I'm fine with letting this brew for a bit.
(Humor) eventually we'll just use All Stars template because World of Wonder will have every queen who has been on the "main show" on All Stars eventually.Naraht (talk) 16:25, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Hah! Actually, the All Stars template would kind of demonstrate who continued to perform and compete and who seemingly abandoned the spotlight after appearing on the regular series. Also happy to let this sit for a while and see what other editors think since we're on the fence. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:29, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
Though some have stepped away after AS.Naraht (talk) 17:40, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Do any other project members care to weigh in here? ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:19, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

@Another Believer, I would like to support this on seperating All Stars, but there is going to be contestants apprearing twice (or more), like Jujubee [no shade]. Now, I know there are some international queens competing in All Stars for the upcoming eighth season, but that's not important right now. But if we go on creating this template, will this happen to the international all-stars? (Example: Drag Race España: All Stars) Eventually they'll end up to the original spin-off franchise. — JuanGLP (talk) 13:22, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
There's no problem with queens competing multiple times. Some queens have competed on RuPaul's Drag Race multiple times and Template:RuPaul's Drag Race works fine. I would not worry about things like Drag Race España: All Stars yet... we have a long time to wait. Want to take a first stab at drafting what a U.S. All Stars template might look like? ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:38, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
I can create a sample on how it could look like for the All Stars template. Might take me a minute but it is no problem. — JuanGLP (talk) 15:05, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer, I have create a sample if the All Stars series had its own template. For AS7, do we add Raja/Yvie/Jada/Viv onto the template if it was created? — JuanGLP (talk) 15:46, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
I'm not sure I understand your question. We would add all queens who have competed on the series. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:02, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Okay, I have added everyone. Is this good? Is there something else that should be added? — JuanGLP (talk) 18:55, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Seems good to me. Then we can trim down Template:RuPaul's Drag Race. As a reminder, the All Stars template should then be added to all of the articles displayed within. ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:57, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Okay, the template is created and is ready to trim the RPDR template and the AS template being displayed onto other articles. — JuanGLP (talk) 19:09, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Are we ready to trim down Template:RuPaul's Drag Race?Naraht (talk) 19:23, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Yep! — JuanGLP (talk) 19:26, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 Done I've trimmed the template and added the All Stars navbox to all entries. Please let me know if you see any mistakes. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:26, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Two issues found with the template checker.
  1. All Star Winners need to be restored to the list of contestants on the Main template. (Jinkx Monsoon for example)
  2. Template:RuPaul's Drag Race All Stars needs to be added to List of Drag Race contestants. Naraht (talk) 19:30, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Re: 1. Good catch! Cans someone else do this? Re: 2. Won't List of Drag Race contestants have every single Drag Race-related navigation template, then? I'm not sure this is necessary or particularly helpful. Things might be different if we ever separate out List of Drag Race contestants into sublists for each series (for example, List of Canada's Drag Race contestants). ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:50, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
If no one else gets to them, I'll add them when I can. The difference is that the US and the UK templates link to the Contestants page as the group, and the other pages don't. What is probably best long term is to have each nation have the contestants group entry link to a redirect for the particular country. That will come up as a mismatch, but with a redirect, which is less bad. It does lead to the question as to what template should direct to the contestants page without a redirect to section, I'm guessing the franchise.Naraht (talk) 19:57, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
The general Drag Race template should link to the contestants page without redirecting, since the list applies to all shows. I agree, we should be consistent about when we link "Contestants" to the list. I say we either remove the link across templates (except for the main Drag Race navbox) or we redirect "Contestants" to the appropriate subsection of the list and we're just okay with the slight discrepancy. I don't feel strongly about either option but think we must be consistent across templates. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:00, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
I agree consistency. And while I'm fine with either solution, another would be to add the templates at the end of the section that they apply to. Having templates before the end is unusual, but I'm not sure it is *bad*.Naraht (talk) 13:17, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
@Naraht Wikipedia:Categories, lists, and navigation templates says Navboxes, are "placed at the bottom of articles". ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:19, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Another Believer of course it also says "Avoid adding performances of entertainers into the navboxes for the productions that they appeared in, or crew members into navboxes for the productions they worked on. This includes, but is not limited to actors/actresses, comedians, television/radio presenters, writers, composers, etc." which sort of blows the entire thing away. :)
This just means we shouldn't create navigation for every single film/TV series and include the names of all the featured actors/actresses/staff. Otherwise, biographies would be filled with way too many navboxes. ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:29, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Also, I've removed The Vivienne from Template:RuPaul's Drag Race. I think she's the only international queen to compete on All Stars, right? ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:11, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Yep, she is only international queen to compete on All Stars. — JuanGLP (talk) 22:11, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Mismatches

Right now the following links from the RPDR:AS template are to articles that don't have the template in it. List of DR contestants (which are are talking about above, Santino Rice and Todrick Hall. We add to the articles for the former judges, right?

Yes, the templates should be added to the Todrick Hall and Santino Rice entries. Also, please remember to sign your comments! ---Another Believer (Talk) 13:59, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Trixie and Katya article

I just came across the Trixie and Katya article. I'm not sure we actually need it, although I guess there is some precedence on WP for joined articles where the subjects' BLPs are also separate (ie Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen, then Mary-Kate Olsen and Ashley Olsen). I think it's redundant, but others may not. Wanted some extra eyes, as I didn't know it existed until just now. --Kbabej (talk) 16:20, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I"ve put it on my watchlist. I'm not sure which way I'd vote on an AFD right now.Naraht (talk) 17:53, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Raja's pronouns

Raja

Hiiiiiiieeeee! I've opened a discussion on Raja's talk page about pronoun use in the article here. Would love input! --Kbabej (talk) 15:23, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for starting a discussion. I'd also invite editors to weigh in on the discussion re: possible page move to Raja (drag queen). ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:41, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
Hi editors! Any thoughts on moving the article to the suggested target? I think it makes a lot of sense, but would like additional input before moving. Cheers! --Kbabej (talk) 00:06, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Infobox image for Cherry Valentine: Gypsy Queen and Proud

Resolved

Anyone able to add a title card or promotional artwork to the infobox at Cherry Valentine: Gypsy Queen and Proud? ---Another Believer (Talk) 17:05, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

@Another Believer, I have seen your message and added the image. Also, why not make a list of articles that needs an image (title card or promotional artwork), IF there are. — JuanGLP (talk) 18:25, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:23, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
@JuanGLP I know The Bitch Who Stole Christmas needs an image. ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:32, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer, the article that needed an image is:  Done. Anything else? — JuanGLP (talk) 20:12, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
Thanks again! I'll let you know if I recall other entries needing infobox images. ---Another Believer (Talk) 20:13, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

Contestant ranking templates

We currently have the progress templates like Template:DragRaceProgressTable/14. I think it may be worth considering doing the same thing with the Contestant rankings. We basically have the same information in two places, for example: Drag Race France#Contestants and List_of_RuPaul's_Drag_Race_contestants#Drag_Race_France. I think our biggest issue is going to be creating a common color legend for some of the odder situations, but I think that we probably can do that from what we currently have on the Contestants page.Naraht (talk) 15:24, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Michelle Visage's talks with Eliminated queens.

RP:DU2 had a recent edit that include mention of the Michelle Visage interview for "How's your head, Queen". I *think* this is the equivalent to the UK, "How's your head, Hun" and in general the "Whatcha Packin" in that they are specifically with the eliminated queens.

  • Am I correct these are equivalent?
  • are they a World of Wonder production?
  • Should they be mentioned in the articles (like RPDR11, to pick one that I think had them)
  • Should they be an article on their own?

It appears that Michelle has at least been nominated for an Emmy for the original.Naraht (talk) 12:02, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

Season Finales in front of large audiences?

Is it worthwhile in some way to indicate which finales were in front of a large audience (even if filmed with each of the finalists winning allowing for control of final information).Naraht (talk) 22:13, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

I assume this would only be mentioned in the episode tables within each season article. Seems appropriate to mention when "Grand Finale" (and similar) episodes are filmed in front of a live audience, just like we'd probably also mention when select maxi challenges are filmed in front of a live audience (for example, some standup comedy challenges). ---Another Believer (Talk) 19:41, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Mo Heart discussion

Project members are invited to participate in a discussion at Talk:Mo_Heart#Re:_"Heart"_as_last_name re: referring to Mo Heart as simply "Heart" throughout the Wikipedia entry. Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:36, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Painted with Raven

Painted with Raven is in the Template:RuPaul's Drag Race, but the template isn't in the article. Are we good with it being in the template, and adding it to the article? And did we ever get a second season?Naraht (talk) 16:20, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

I say yes. Between Raven, RuPaul, and WoW, the shows are clearly related. In general, navigation templates should be added to all entries in the template. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:22, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
OK, then the question is which, if any, of the other WoW originals at Template:WOW Presents Plus should be on the RPDR template?Naraht (talk) 17:10, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
I believe not, because the shows originated in WOW and not RPDR. — JuanGLP (talk) 18:57, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Image request

Resolved

Speaking of which, anyone able to add title card or promotional artwork to the infobox? ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:23, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

I can do that right away! — JuanGLP (talk) 18:16, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
@Another Believer, the image is added. — JuanGLP (talk) 18:24, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 18:40, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
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