Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Western Australia/Archive 9

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Yellagonga, Mooro

Is/was Yellagonga a person or a group or both?

The article Yellagonga says he was a person, but the reference to "the Yellagonga" in Perth#Indigenous history implies a group. (See also my recent edit to that sentence, in case I got it wrong.)

History of Perth, Western Australia#Aboriginal history says "Boorloo formed part of Mooro, the tribal lands of Yellagonga, whose group was one of several based around the Swan River, known collectively as the Whadjug", ie Yellagonga was the leader, not the group. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:15, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Likewise was Mooro a group (per the article Mooro, and Yellagonga Regional Park), or a place (per Perth#Indigenous history and History of Perth, Western Australia#Aboriginal history) or both? Mitch Ames (talk) 13:19, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

the source used in Perth#Indigenous history states Yellowgonga himself is recorded as regarding the area north of the Swan River as his own to articles in one sentence referring to Yellagonga as a person, Gnangarra 06:14, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I've updated Perth#Indigenous history accordingly. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:19, 4 July 2015 (UTC)
Hold on, this the problem of poor piecemeal changes. You asked a question I read the sourced used highlighted a single point which goes towards answering you question Is/was Yellagonga a person or a group or both? but the source itself doesnt necessarly support the construct and divisions of the areas nor naming of them as describe now in the section. Personally I thinks it s very poor source to use for an overview of the indigenous history of Perth area especially if look into the appeal to decisions taken and then why such a piece of legal documentation and it appeal are used implying that the Noongars relationship with the region has been dis-proven. Gnangarra 12:16, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Meetup reminder

The next Perth meetup is on this Saturday 18 July 2015; details at Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/20 - Evad37 [talk] 12:43, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Train services in WA towns - too much information

I feel that these recent edits [1][2] by Mvpo666 contain too much detailed information about the services (e.g. exactly which days of the week services run) and are contrary to WP:NOTDIRECTORY - even for an article about a railway station. A quick look at Mvpo666's contributions shows many more similar edits.

Can I have other editors' opinions on the matter please. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:39, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

The edits are expressed very badly with little understanding of what constitutes clear explanation, the reading from timetables that might be current and can be changed at short notice, as a consequence, due to the potential fluidity of the operations, is not encyclopdiac in the way that it has been expressed, and the potential to be dated information within a short duration of time. I have a different opinion about TMI (Too much information) on such items, but in this case do agree with Mitch in current form it is, but if edited, can be reduced to services, not the specific days, and I then consider it ok. JarrahTree 09:20, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Considering the area of interest, what are the odds that it's he-of-ten-million-sockpuppets anyway? I don't have a problem with mentioning how many days a week it runs (and think that's probably important), but once it gets down to how often and which days it gets a bit too open to change without us noticing, especially in an article on a small rural town. The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:16, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Mvpo666 is listed as a suspected sockpuppet at WP:Sockpuppet investigations/D47817#24 July 2015. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:16, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Checkuser says they are unrelated, the investigation was closed. [3]. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:29, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
puppets with nouse can change ips so that checkuser cannot prove adequately that they are linked JarrahTree 12:37, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
My thoughts exactly. Someone that ridiculously dedicated to sockpuppeting is easily capable of changing up their IP, and the succession of similar accounts across Australian railways post the original ban suggests to me that he hasn't gone anywhere. The Drover's Wife (talk) 12:49, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
But, not resolved - the too much information aspect is a problem. There is no need of obtuse 'up and down every day detail' added by the sock (I am, sure it is), as there is the issue of transitory and 'temporary' nature of timetables. However, where services are identified in the article already, it should be checked that the specific station has the named service identified already somewhere, if possible without the detail of timetable reading. JarrahTree 11:47, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
I've updated the two articles I mentioned [4][5] to remove the excess details. I'll leave someone else to worry about the others. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:04, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
Fair enough - thanks for that JarrahTree 12:19, 28 July 2015 (UTC)
I've gone through and done the rest out to Kalgoorlie (per the ref Prospector, AvonLink, MerredinLink timetables) - copy/paste is a wonderful thing. Of course copy/paste errors are a risk. Someone should probably check my edits. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:33, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Transperth line succession box

On the railway theme, could someone fix the succession box that shows Victoria Street as the terminus for Armadale and Midland at Perth railway station and a few other pages? Hack (talk) 08:16, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

 Fixed - some editors weren't mindful of syntax when adding stations to Template:Transperth stations - Evad37 [talk] 09:34, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Midland and East Guildford now link to a station in England. Hack (talk) 11:30, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Not a problem when used individually here: {{transperth stations|station=Midland}}, {{transperth stations|station=East Guildford}} --> {{transperth stations|station=Midland}}, {{transperth stations|station=East Guildford}}. Will have to investigate further - Evad37 [talk]
The preceding station for Midland and the succeeding station for East Guildford is now Woodbridge railway station in Suffolk. Hack (talk) 14:27, 1 August 2015 (UTC)
Should be okay now (after fixing typo [6]): {{transperth stations|station=Woodbridge}} --> {{transperth stations|station=Woodbridge}} - Evad37 [talk]

Old Mandurah Traffic bridge

HI Folks... short notice today 24 Aug the old traffic bridge is being torn down today I cant get there to take photos until this evening 6ish at the earliest suspect it'll be gone then if anyone can get there to day it'd be great lat opportunity to get some photos... Gnangarra 23:57, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

I did get down there and take some photos... Didn't look like it was going to be demolished, are you sure you've got the date right? Will upload pics later. - Evad37 [talk] 07:38, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
came thru via friend of friend, so not really sure on the details maybe they are just going to close it to traffic today .... Gnangarra 08:39, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Noongar WikiBomb

Hi Folks

At it again, more activity taking place to coincide with our meetup on the 19th we will have a WikiBomb beforehand;

  • time:10:00 - 13:00
  • location: SLWA
  • romm: Geograph

If you would like to join in the focus will be on Noongar topics in english and the development of the Noongar language Wikipedia which is now in the incubator https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page .... Gnangarra 08:43, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Opinions sought on an OR issue (Wheatbelt WA)

Editors' opinions are sought at Talk:Wheatbelt_(Western_Australia)#How_many_early_20th_century_references_have_.22wheat_belt.22_as_two_separate_words.3F, on a question of WP:OR. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:54, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

With all the AGF in the world, if you have the energy to post this, that is the same as doing some research yourself ion trove to find that both usages prevail, and this is really a no-brainer for this venue.
Check http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=wheat+belt+western+australia
Check http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=wheatbelt+western+australia
There is no hard and fast rule or pattern, it is not OR, it is a time waster.JarrahTree 10:07, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
My reply is at Talk:Wheatbelt_(Western_Australia)#How_many_early_20th_century_references_have_.22wheat_belt.22_as_two_separate_words.3F -- please try to keep the discussion about the issue in one place. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:58, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Save the date: Wikipedia Takes Open House Perth 2015, 7–8 November

Open House Perth is on again this year, 7–8 November 2015. The event allows public access to areas which are usually restricted, and is a good opportunity to take photographs for upload to Commons and inclusion in Wikipedia articles. Once the Open House destinations for 2015 are released in October, we can organise a target list at Wikipedia:Wikipedia Takes Open House Perth 2015. Hopefully with a bit more notice than last year, we might get more participation. Thanks, - Evad37 [talk] 08:42, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

that would or could coincide with meetup number 22 ... Gnangarra 09:02, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
Sure, we could combine a meetup with the wiki takes on one (or both) of the days - Evad37 [talk] 00:49, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
well worth planning ahead for and utilising - some good locations/places otherwise out of reach JarrahTree 13:00, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

UPDATE: 2015 destinations details have been updated on the OHP website (and I've added them to the wiki takes page). We should probably start planning for the Wiki Takes now... any thoughts on how we should organise it? - Evad37 [talk] 07:27, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Wikimania 2017 bid

Hi Folks as discussed at the meetup the bid page is now live m:Wikimania 2017 bids/Perth I still havent seen anything to say bidding is open but I'm about to be over run by WMAU and RL commitments for the next couple of weeks and didnt want to miss the process start. Please chime in with additional information and changes as you see fit, I have been speaking with the PCEC since the meetup and the date is the only set in July/August that the whole of venue is available. Gnangarra 04:19, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Per Signpost coverage, it looks like Wikimania 2017 will be Montreal, Canada; 2018 somewhere in South Asia; 2019 somewhere in Europe; 2020 somewhere in US/Canada... if it does end up going like this (a three-yearly rotation between Europe, US/Canada, and rest of the world) then our next opportunities would be 2021, 2024, 2027. - Evad37 [talk] 03:06, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
They will change the process again before 2021 I wouldnt be surpised to see it changed even sooner Gnangarra 03:24, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Toodyaypedia - new articles

HI Folks

The folks of Toodyay have been wuietly working behind the scenes gathering information and help Historian & Author Robyn Taylor research 25 people who's lives have had an impact in the Toodyay area... The people do meet the requirements of GNG over the next few days I will create stubs for each one so that we can stabilize the urls in preparation for the creation of artworks for plaques, if anyone has an interest and wants to assist as Robyn send me the text I can forward it across to you for article creation. The process will be a copy & paste with the addition of a template to note the origins of the text, you will then need to Wikify and tidy up the article, if you can source free licensed images that would be a bonus, the list of people are;

articles being worked on for stage II of WP:Toodyaypedia

the template {{CC-notice|cc=by25au|url=|author=Robyn Taylor}} need to be included in the reference section of each of these articles as per OTRS Ticket:2015100110014114

where a reference is needed you can also use {{cite journal|last1=Taylor|first1=Robyn|title={{subst:pagename}}|journal=Toodyaypedia|date=2015|issue=draft|accessdate=1 October 2015|series=Lotterywest Toodyaypedia - Part II|publisher=[[Shire of Toodyay]]|location=[[Newcastle Gaol Museum|Newcastle Gaol Museum Collection]]}} crediting the text to author.

most drafts include a section notes by author these will need to removed once the article is completed.

Name reason Editor notes RT Draft
Joseph Strelley Harris Magistrate 1850-61 Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet/Joseph Strelley Harris has been merged to Joseph Strelley Harris. The former can be deleted now. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:41, 16 December 2015 (UTC) /Joseph Strelley Harris
Alfred Durlacher magistrate 1861-65 Done, but see WT:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet#Alfred Durlacher. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:17, 22 November 2015 (UTC) &  Done
John Acton Wroth convict Done Mitch Ames (talk) 08:44, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
William Sykes (convict) convict Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet/William Sykes (convict) has been merged to William Sykes (convict), so the former can be deleted. Mitch Ames (talk) 10:00, 12 December 2015 (UTC) /William Sykes (convict)
David Gailey pensioner guard  Done Gnangarra
Owen Hackett pensioner guard  Done Gnangarra
Francis Kirk pensioner guard Done
Charles Harper (minister) reverend Done Mitch Ames (talk) 13:22, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
Raffaele Martelli canon Done (acknowledging that Gnangarra did much of the editing) Mitch Ames (talk) 12:57, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
Angela Browne (nun) St Aloysius Convent of Mercy  Done Gnangarra
Arthur Edwardes Growse doctor Done Mitch Ames (talk) 06:58, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
William Mayhew (doctor) doctor Done Mitch Ames (talk) 10:22, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
James Albert Miles inspector of schools Done Mitch Ames (talk) 10:08, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
James Drummond (Australian politician) Jnr pastoralist b class article exists
Samuel Pole Phillips pastoralist Done
Michael Clarkson (pastoralist) pastoralist Done Mitch Ames (talk) 13:27, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
William Amed Demasson oldfellows (Jager Stores?) & builder Done Mitch Ames (talk) 10:19, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Charles Ellery Ellery's Arcade  Done Gnangarra
William George Leeder first Mayor stub
Charles Soong Yocklunn market gardener  Done
Annie Stack Noongar elder Done Gnangarra 02:31, 14 October 2015 (UTC)
Doris Durlacher (Miriam Dorothy Durlacher) nurse Done. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:13, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
Eric Patten volunteer fire brigade, school bus crash survivor Done
Hector Thomas Wood coorinja wines /Hector Thomas Wood
Jonathan Somers /Jonathon Somers

Edit the list at Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet There may be a couple more to be added to this list Gnangarra 03:36, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I'll do a few - create article, wikify and/or copy-edit as necessary. It's not clear how the worksheet is going to work though. Are you going to send the text to someone after they add their name to the Editor column? Or might it be easier for you to just to dump the plain text into the article (or subpage of Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia or Draft space), then editors can pick an existing article that doesn't have an "editor", put their name in the column and work on the article until its done? Mitch Ames (talk) 13:55, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Its on hold for now Gnangarra 10:20, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Is Yock Lunn the same person as Charles Soong Yocklunn, father of John Yocklunn? Hack (talk) 08:05, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
not sure sounds probably but I'll wait until I see the draft for Yock Lunn article Gnangarra 14:10, 8 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Update you have noticed that I have started posting the draft articles to a sub pages of the list, I'll continue to expand this as I recieve more... all the draft articles are as I received them the next stage is to Wikify... copy edit and generally tidy them each up to suitable as articles.. If you want to work on a specific article please just add your username to the list in the field provided that way we dont have everyone trippin gover each other... when your ready either just move them to article space your drop me I'll do it. There is also a notes field in the table Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet if you an issue you can note it there as well so others can help resolve it... if its complex just say Issue see talk page Gnangarra 14:10, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

@Gnangarra: could you check up on the "Bicentennial Dictionary of Western Australians, UWA Press, 2009 (c.1983)" used as a reference in some articles please. See Wikipedia talk:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet/Alfred Durlacher#Year of birth for why. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:30, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

@Mitch Ames: work on those question will let you know shortly Gnangarra 02:33, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

a bit off topic

My (german) girlfriend is visiting Perth for the next two weeks. Is there anything worth visiting especially that time? She'd like to have contact with some locals. -- Cherubino (talk) 07:39, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

We have Perth Meetup 22 scheduled for 7-8 November - will she still be in Perth that weekend? Bahnfrend (talk) 08:15, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

AfC submission

See Draft:The Lily (windmill). Cheers, FoCuS contribs; talk to me! 19:43, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

wow just as well we didnt have AFC around in the old days, we would have never got anywhere... JarrahTree 00:14, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
This article is great! Needs a bit of work but I'm very impressed. Hughesdarren (talk) 10:03, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Added a few refs and did some tidying. Added a comment that the article meets notability, would appreciate if others could add there thoughts.Hughesdarren (talk) 13:01, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
How do AfC submissions get accepted? The process thread there is completely bananas - can we just move it into mainspace? The Drover's Wife (talk) 13:23, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
I've moved it to mainspace. Hack (talk) 13:38, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks - Hughesdarren and Hack - !!!! JarrahTree 14:34, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
@The Drover's Wife:, you can bypass the process by moving it to mainspace any time if you think it's notable. A lot of AFC reviewer take a pretty hard line, despite the actual AFC acceptance criteria being quite loose. Hack (talk) 14:45, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Hack - will keep that in mind for future cases. The Drover's Wife (talk) 14:50, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Galleria 220

I notice that the page for the Galleria shopping centre is at Galleria 220. Was this part of a shortlived rebranding? Hack (talk) 09:27, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

That would be my guess - nice catch. The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Never heard it called that. Ever. Moved it to Galleria Shopping Centre (Perth), and made Galleria Shopping Centre go to the dab page, not a Toronto centre. Nice catch, it was only moved 2 YEARS AGO!!! The-Pope (talk) 15:04, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Doing some hunting, found this archived web page. Seems pretty amateur and poorly thought out (220 referred to the number of shops). Hack (talk) 16:10, 24 November 2015 (UTC)


SLWA

Just a quick note that the State Library of Western Australia has started a project to improve the information about Western Australian published Newspapers and other activities will begin to occur shortly you can keep an eye on developments at Wikipedia:GLAM/State Library of Western Australia. Gnangarra 06:22, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this. As part of the work, we would like to redevelop the List of newspapers in Western Australia article. Ideally we would like to make it more user friendly and more comprehensive. We're trying to think about the best ways to do this and would appreciate your input and ideas. At a minimum the table will need to include publication years and masthead. User:Gnangarra (who has been very generous with his time) suggested the inclusion of distribution, frequency and style. My concerns are that this would make the list unwieldy since the frequency and style often change over the course of a newspaper's run and they are often distributed to many, many suburbs and areas. Any further ideas about how we could manage this would be appreciated. Since the list will become quite long, we were thinking of having two tables in the article, one with current newspapers and one with defunct newspapers. LOTE newspapers will continue to be included on the List of non-English-language newspapers in Western Australia. Many thanks. RenegadeStormie (talk) 07:29, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
Somehow missed this post in 3 weeks, odd.
The best way to reduce crowding in templates/lists/articles - is to separate information into regions - either similar to Regions of Western Australia or approximations of this.

You may or may not be aware of Pilbara_newspapers, as a means of regionalising the lists and details.

Another way is to have specific stubs about individual newspapers (this helps if there are complicated publication histories) and have them in a regional category like Category:Goldfields newspapers. JarrahTree 13:27, 11 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! That's a really good idea. RenegadeStormie (talk) 03:54, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

QR coding - toodyaypedia

Heads up the articles listed at Wikipedia:WikiTown/Toodyaypedia/stage II worksheet will qr coded and the artwork created over the weekend, I'll then be submitting this ot the projects partners and finalising formats for the printers. Last chance to speak up about any article issues, cross posting to WP:AWNB as well Gnangarra 06:37, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Islands of the Wheatbelt

I suggest that the recently created Category:Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia) is not appropriate and ought to be deleted. In particular, WP:NON-DEFINING applies. Do "reliable sources commonly and consistently define the [island(s)] as having ... [that] location or region"?

WP:OCLOCATION also applies - "avoid subcategorizing subjects by geographical boundary if that boundary does not have any relevant bearing on the subjects' other characteristics." Is wheat grown on the islands? Are there ports on the island used to ship wheat? Is there anything - other than the accident of location - that links the islands to the wheatbelt?

Mitch Ames (talk) 10:58, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Always good to hear your version Mitch, I am sorry but I strongly disagree
  • reliable source define the islands as being related to the location or region. yes.
  • what grown - ports for wheat - accident of location. missing the point see below

Your mate pdfpdf etc created a whole lot of islands of land based regions some time back, and this was the one that got left out. If you are going to do that sort of logic and questioning above, why are island categories of all the other regions being unquestioned?

  • Islands of the Gascoyne (Western Australia)‎ (1 C, 6 P)
  • Islands of the Goldfields-Esperance region (Western Australia)‎ (1 C, 4 P)
  • Islands of the Great Southern (Western Australia)‎ (14 P)
  • Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia)‎ (1 P)
  • Islands of the Kimberley (Western Australia)‎ (3 C, 62 P)
  • Islands of the Mid West (Western Australia)‎ (1 C, 9 P)
  • Islands of the Perth region (Western Australia)‎ (1 C, 6 P)
  • Islands of the Pilbara (Western Australia)‎ (4 C, 19 P)
  • Islands of the South West (Western Australia)‎ (4 P)

The land regions of the state have coastlines - the coastline has islands - the islands can also be determined by coastal regions as well, but suprise, western australia is a big state, and very specifically land based region geology and geomorphology actually affects the nature of the islands that lie on the coast... JarrahTree 14:46, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

"reliable source define the islands as being related to the location or region. yes."
Some specific examples might help your case. The three references listed in Edwards Island (Western Australia) – the single article currently in Category:Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia) – do not appear to mention the wheatbelt at all in their text.
"what grown - ports for wheat - accident of location. missing the point"
These were obviously rhetorical questions. I was making the point that there is nothing in the article that suggests that there is any connection between the wheatbelt region and the island, other than its location. WP:OCLOCATION seems fairly clear on this: "avoid subcategorizing subjects by geographical boundary if that boundary does not have any relevant bearing on the subjects' other characteristics".
"why are island categories of all the other regions being unquestioned?"
Because I wasn't aware of those categories. But now that you mention it, I suspect that the same arguments may apply to some or all of the other categories. (Although I note that there is an article Islands of the Kimberley (Western Australia), which cites references that apparently refer to them as "Kimberley Islands", so there may be some merit in that category - but that's the only one with its own article.)
"very specifically land based region geology and geomorphology actually affects the nature of the islands that lie on the coast..."
Land based geology and geomorphology may well affect the nature of the islands, but the regions in question are socio-economic not geological or geomorphic. Again, I quote OCLOCATION: "boundary does not have any relevant bearing on the subjects' other characteristics".
There may be merit in categorising islands by coastal region (Batavia Coast, Sunset Coast, Turquoise Coast etc), but land regions - no.
As always, other editors are invited to comment. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:05, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
OMG, not another one of these. I strongly disagree with your arguments, and remain somewhat perturbed that the categories nowreceive your attention despite having existed for quite a while, they serve a good purpose by breaking down the rather large range of features into a regional framework, and regardless of the nit picking, I would rather at least another 3 or 4 editors make comment, rather than this be a drawn out on wiki conversation between 2 eds. JarrahTree 14:27, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
"somewhat perturbed that the categories nowreceive your attention despite having existed for quite a while"
The one category that I mentioned in the first instance – Category:Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia) – was created two days ago. The others - perhaps I wasn't aware of them, perhaps I missed them when they were created, or didn't pay much attention at the time. I don't believe that longevity makes any difference to whether or not they are consistent with WP:CAT.
"regardless of the nit picking"
Feel free to point out exactly what's wrong with my specific references to the relevant MOS guidelines. If you think I've misinterpreted those words that I quoted from the guidelines, feel free to explain how you interpret them. If you think that those guidelines should not apply, please explain why. Feel free to actually refute my individual points with something more specific that "I disagree".
Mitch Ames (talk) 11:53, 16 December 2015 (UTC)
I asked for this not to be a conversation between you and myself over issues that lengthen this page to a runner carpet of diffs and issues,

but for other editors to look and offer their position on the issue. One has arrived, if we have at least another two, then if they have issues, as well as ours , then will be the time to further discuss. If they agree with the position of keep, or not, so be it.

I do not wish to argue re MOS guidelines or essays, the categories as they stand are useful and I do not see where deleting them benefits anyone in the long run JarrahTree 12:58, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Applying the regions to the coastline is the logical choice for mind. At least most West Australians have a reasonably good understanding of the regions and they have good supporting information on the wiki pages created for them. It seems unlikely that a better alternative exists. Hughesdarren (talk) 23:20, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Complicated template at Perth railway station

Prompted by an edit by another new rail editor, I notice that the station layout at the Perth railway station article is a little out of date. It is generated by {{Perth Rail Yard}}. Just wondering if someone could take a look at this. Hack (talk) 09:42, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Categories: Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia), Turquoise Coast (Western Australia)

Opinions are sought at Category talk:Islands of the Wheatbelt (Western Australia)#Cat hierarchy as to how to fix the WP:SUBCAT contravention. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:37, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Proposed edits to Perth Freight Link

Please see and join the discussion at Talk:Perth Freight Link § Proposed edits. Thanks, - Evad37 [talk] 11:33, 19 January 2016 (UTC)


WikiData Down under tour 2016

A little bit of confusion settled in in this morning, it has been a complicated process, planning and organising the schedule for Perth, made even more so by Wikimedia Indonesia inviting him yesterday to detour to Jakarta, after leaving Perth, throwing the final day out of whack so I'm still waiting their confirmation before I can finalise the last event in Perth.

On the 19th of February 2016 there will be a mini conference in the theatre at Alexander Library Building of SLWA.

It will be open to the public, all are welcome to attend, also please invite anyone who you think might find it interesting to know more about what we have been doing in Wikidata and Wikipedia.


Then on the Saturday 20th February 2016, we have a hands on workshop at the SLWA in the Geographe room starting at 14:00. The room will be available from 13:00 but this will give you a chance to have a chat and get setup beforehand.

After the workshop which can run until we get kicked out (when the library closes); if people want to head out for dinner, we can organise that on the day.

Finally there will be chance to join us before Andy is carted away on the silver bird, this is awaiting the result of WMID decision it either be 24th or 25th. Gnangarra 08:30, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Any questions? please ask here, or contact User:Gnangarra

JarrahTree 12:31, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Missing topics

If anyone's looking for articles to create, these are the most wanted redlinks from articles within Category:Western Australia and its subcats. See WP:AWNB § Missing topics - a useful tool! for further info/discussion. - Evad37 [talk] 08:44, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Have created a permanent project page out of this archivable talk page at: [7] JarrahTree 08:58, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

  • Just a note: some of these apparently wanted articles, such as Hopman Cup (tennis) are on this list due to a "feature/bug" in the infobox template coding. Apparently if a template uses the "#ifexist:" function to test if a page exists, that is included in the "what links here" test, and hence shows up in these lists, even though the template code does not result in an actual redlink being printed. In this Hopman Cup case, the generic tennis infobox tests for the existence of the Hopman Cup (tennis) disambiguated page but as it doesn't exist, prints links to Hopman Cup instead. Not sure if we need to push the tennis project to change their infobox to avoid this, push the mediawiki people to not detect phantom #ifexist: links in the "what links here" function, find a way to get the missing topics tool to ignore them, or just ignore the issue as a minor distraction. The-Pope (talk) 04:29, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
    • Seems more like a mediawiki/developer bug rather than a template design issue... but they can be removed from the wanted lists by creating redirects from the disambiguated titles to the actual titles. - Evad37 [talk] 05:11, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
      • That's what I did for the Commonwealth Games medal list links, but for the tennis one, I wonder if that would cause more grief? Would it then make the template think that the qualified format of the link exists, and use the redirect for the link, not the direct link? To me, it seems like a bit of a shortcut/hack in the coding, but my template coding skills are not enough to be sure of how it all works. The-Pope (talk) 05:36, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
        • Creating such redirects isn't the most elegant solution, but I don't think there's anything really wrong with having them. I can't see how it would cause a problem – all that should happen is that the link produced by the template would be of the form [[Foo (Bar)|Foo]] instead of [[Foo]]. E.g. Bendigo, Victoria is an existing disambiguated redirect to Bendigo, and [[{{#ifexist:Bendigo, Victoria|Bendigo, Victoria|Bendigo}}|Bendigo]] produces Bendigo - Evad37 [talk] 10:20, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
Created Sat, 30 Jan 2016 08:37:34 +0000 by the MissingTopics tool (run again with these settings)
Wanted Title
43 Robert Chinnock
42 Midland Province (Western Australia)
41 Minister for Works (Western Australia)
35 North-East Province (Western Australia)
35 1962 Commonwealth Games medal table
34 South-East Province (Western Australia)
33 Tom Evans (politician)
30 Jeff Carr (Australian politician)
29 Keith Wilson (Western Australian politician)
29 Barry Blaikie
27 Mike Barnett (politician)
27 Bill Hegney
27 Ken McIver
26 David Evans (Western Australian politician)
26 John Brady (Australian politician)
26 Joseph Holmes (politician)
26 Ron Bertram
25 Alexander Taylor (politician)
25 List of Geraldton suburbs
25 Yvonne Henderson
25 Plantae Preissianae
25 Merv Toms
25 Gordon Hill (politician)
25 Emil Nulsen
25 Lionel Kelly
24 Norbert Keenan
24 James Hegney
24 Iven Manning
23 Tom Bateman
23 Alan Ridge
23 Bill Sewell (politician)
23 Charles Baxter (politician)
23 Edgar Lewis
22 Minister for Mines (Western Australia)
22 Hopman Cup (tennis)
22 Arthur Tonkin (politician)
22 Ian Laurance
22 Arthur Bickerton
21 Dick Old
21 List of 1962 British Empire and Commonwealth Games medal winners
21 Peter Jones (Australian politician)
21 1962 British Empire and Commonwealth Games medal table
21 George Cornell (politician)
21 Pam Beggs
21 Barry Hodge
20 Gavan Troy
20 Geraldton (suburb)
20 James Mann (Australian politician)
20 Victor Doney
20 Harry Gayfer
20 Arthur Moir
20 Harry Fletcher (politician)
19 Graham MacKinnon
19 George Taylor (Australian politician)
19 David Smith (Australian politician)
19 Charles Perkins (politician)
19 Tom Dadour
19 Bert Crane
19 William James George
18 Daniel Norton (Australian politician)
18 William Kitson
18 William Manning (Australian politician)
18 James Connolly (Australian politician)
18 Peter Coyne (politician)
18 John Ewing (Australian politician)
18 Les Nimmo
18 Joseph Sleeman
18 James Cornell
18 John Nanson
18 Gilbert Fraser
17 Aubrey Coverley
17 Reg Tubby
17 Robert Ross McDonald
16 Norm Baxter
16 Harry May
16 Ray Owen (politician)
16 Lindsay Thorn
16 Edmund Gray (politician)
16 Harold Seddon
16 John Hearman
15 Donald May (politician)
15 Francis Connor (politician)
15 Mick Nanovich
15 George Spriggs (politician)
15 John Harman (Australian politician)
15 Brendan Lepschi
15 Henry Runciman
15 David Wordsworth
15 John Nicholson (Western Australian politician)
14 John Sibson
14 William Marshall (Australian politician)
14 Minister for Labour (Western Australia)
14 Rex Williams (politician)
14 Charles Piesse
14 John Rhatigan
14 Richard Lewis (Australian politician)
14 Jack Hall (politician)
14 Selby Munsie
14 Les Logan
14 Maurice Williams (politician)
14 Richard Shalders
14 James Gordon Hislop
14 James Brown (Western Australian politician)
13 Ken Dunn
13 Richard Sampson (politician)
13 William Willesee
13 George Lambert (Australian politician)
13 Harry Shearn
13 James Craig (politician)
13 Richard Burt (Australian politician)
13 William Hall (Australian politician)
13 Edward McLarty
13 William Mann (Australian politician)
13 Harry Strickland
13 Guy Henn
13 Charles Moran (politician)
12 Leslie Diver
12 Henry Carson
12 Harry Griffiths (politician)
12 Dryandra ser. Gymnocephalae
12 James Murray (Australian politician)
12 James Macfarlane (Western Australian politician)
12 Robert Robinson (politician)
12 Brian Sodeman
12 Thomas Moore (Australian politician)
12 John Read (Australian politician)
12 Tom Herzfeld
12 Barrington Wood
12 Dryandra ser. Dryandra
12 Herbert Styants
12 Hugh Guthrie (Australian politician)
12 Geoff Grewar
12 Minister for the North-West
12 Ephraim Clarke
12 Edward Angelo
12 Les Craig
11 John Harman (politician)
11 Ian Alexander (politician)
11 Jabez Dodd
11 Hugh Andrew
11 Francis Willmott
11 Dryandra ser. Concinnae
11 Dryandra ser. Acrodontae
11 Dryandra ser. Decurrentes
11 Dryandra ser. Marginatae
11 Dryandra ser. Pectinatae
11 Dryandra ser. Obvallatae
11 Des Dans
11 Charles Sommers - User:Gnangarra/sandbox/Charles Sommers
11 Anthony Loton
11 Adenanthos acanthophyllus
11 Arnold Piesse
11 Arthur Abbott (politician)
11 Charles Hudson (Australian politician)
11 Vic Ferry
11 Dryandra ser. Runcinatae
11 Dryandra ser. Foliosae
11 Frederick Monger
11 Harold Crommelin
11 Graham Burkett
11 Dryandra ser. Tenuifoliae
11 Dryandra ser. Triangulares
10 Joseph Rowberry
10 Beacon Island (Houtman Abrolhos)
10 Henry Curran
10 John Foulkes
10 George Roberts (Australian politician)
10 Garnet Barrington Wood
10 Wyndham Cook
10 Tom Hart (Australian politician)
10 Charles Simpson (politician)
10 Henry Kennedy Maley
10 Leonard Bolton
10 James Dimmitt
10 Richard Goldsmith Burges
10 Edwin Rose
10 Minister for the Environment (Western Australia)
10 Jack Skidmore
10 Fred McKenzie (politician)
10 Hugh Roche

Elizabeth Quay railway station & Busport

As you may have noticed both the Esplanade railway station and the Esplanade busport have had a name change as of 31st January 2016 both have become Elizabeth Quay foo's. Any way at around midnight I had a burst of energy and made all the moves changed all the links but the old what links here needs some time to update templates and refresh its lists I think I have most of them already obviously I left the redirects in place because no doubt we will still use Esplanade more frequently than EQ for sometime to come. I'll check back tomorrow to see if there are any more more to be done. Gnangarra 16:35, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

  • I think I have got them all, but I notice other editors have been changing the Esplanade to Elizabeth Quay ignoring the fact it was the Esplanade at the time and now if someone else attempts to verify without knowing the name change has occurred they will tag as not in source. Please keep the name in context dependent on the information being told. Gnangarra 04:41, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Esplanade Busport got moved to Elizabeth Quay Busport... but shouldn't it be Elizabeth Quay Bus Station, per the sources for the new name (and to match the lead and infobox)? - Evad37 [talk] 04:56, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

You are correct - I hadn't noticed that they'd changed that too (presumably to eliminate confusion with the new Perth Busport). The Drover's Wife (talk) 05:02, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
so Perth City Busport will need to a redirect to els where in future. they are going to create a great deal of confusion with these name changes Gnangarra 12:36, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
  • I had read that they were changing the "Esplande" to Elizabeth Quay which was also written on the notices from the PTA that have been adorning all the bus stops out this way for a month because they are changing all the time tables today as well. Wasnt aware they were also changing the Busport to bus station Gnangarra 05:27, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
    • They have Bus Station on the Transperth website [8] - Evad37 [talk] 05:45, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
      • thats ok not arguing the point I just changed to what I had read at the time. Gnangarra 12:36, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
        • There's also a bunch of articles referencing WSBS that need updating now and again when the Perth Busport opens. Hack (talk) 02:39, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

invoice PTA

  • maybe we should send an invoice to the PTA for time taken in making the changes Gnangarra 05:29, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
    • At least its not as much work as LGA merges/boundary changes would have been - Evad37 [talk] 05:45, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
    • but they are throwing away heaps of money to do this Gnangarra 07:19, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
    • As Evad37 said, that's not even a fraction of the money spent on the failed Local Government Reform. Dan arndt (talk) 08:03, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

WikiBomb & WikiData

As you all know there will be a WikiData workshop with a meetup on the 20th Febraury in the Geographe room of the Library... Before this the Noongarpedia people will be holding their regular monthly WikiBomb in the same room as lead up event. I normally attend these WikiBombs to be available to assist new editors with any problems that arise, but for this one I need someone to take on that role as I'll be escorting Andy to an Ornithological activity elsewhere. Given this mean an all day commitment I'm happy to make arrangements to reimburse two people the cost of their lunch at the Aroma Cafe between events, who is interested in helping out the Noongarpedia WikiBomb? Gnangarra 06:14, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

I'll be there and can help with anything I can help with. No worries about lunch. :-) Sam Wilson 07:33, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Will be there as well,Lunch, thanks there is no such thing as lunch ? JarrahTree 06:37, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Oh no, not another island issue

Mitch, where are you

there is another change again, with the islands thing... see speedy CFD suggestion at [9] - JarrahTree 09:54, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

WikiData Down under tour 2016

A little bit of confusion settled in in this morning, it has been a complicated process, planning and organising the schedule for Perth, made even more so by Wikimedia Indonesia inviting him yesterday to detour to Jakarta, after leaving Perth, throwing the final day out of whack so I'm still waiting their confirmation before I can finalise the last event in Perth.

On the 19th of February 2016 there will be a mini conference in the theatre at Alexander Library Building of SLWA.

It will be open to the public, all are welcome to attend, also please invite anyone who you think might find it interesting to know more about what we have been doing in Wikidata and Wikipedia.


Then on the Saturday 20th February 2016, we have a hands on workshop at the SLWA in the Geographe room starting at 13:00


After the workshop which can run until we get kicked out (when the library closes); if people want to head out for dinner, we can organise that on the day.

Finally there will be chance to join us before Andy is carted away on the silver bird, this is awaiting the result of WMID decision it either be 24th or 25th. Gnangarra 08:30, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Any questions? please ask here, or contact User:Gnangarra

JarrahTree 12:31, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

I've restored this section after it was archived by a bot. We haven't actually had the tour yet, so archiving's a bit premature. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:52, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

WikiData Down under tour 2016

Please note this is a repeated message... please let anyone know who might be interested

--- Friday 19th

On the 19th of February 2016 there will be a mini conference in the theatre at Alexander Library Building of SLWA.

It will be open to the public, all are welcome to attend.

Please invite anyone who you think might find it interesting to know more about what we have been doing in Wikidata and Wikipedia.

--- Saturday 20th

Then on the Saturday 20th February 2016, we have a hands on workshop at the SLWA in the Geographe room starting at 13:00.


Please invite anyone who you know who might have already edited, or know something about Wikidata and Wikipedia.



Any questions? please ask here, or contact User:Gnangarra

Repeated and slightly modified message by JarrahTree 12:36, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

      • reminder thats this is in the week ahead Gnangarra 12:49, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

'brick on the doorstep of Fremantle'

At Wadjemup Lighthouse there's a plaque that reads "Since the early days of Australia, Rottnest Island has been the 'brick on the doorstep of Fremantle' which trips up any drunken or unwary captain" (includes the single quotes). Does anyone know from where the phrase is sourced? Moondyne (talk) 10:46, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

31 January public transport changes

As a result of the changes on Sunday, a lot of Perth public transport articles now have an out-of-date colour scheme for buses. Previously routes were categorised by geographical region and assigned a corresponding colour (for example, see the bus listing at Elizabeth Quay Bus Station). Now there is no distinction except for high-frequency routes. There needs to be a discussion about how to more effectively display this information without going overboard with colour. Hack (talk) 05:34, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

How about changing the formatting to a more standard wikitable, and effectively doing away with colours (and the associated MOS:COLOUR/WP:COLOUR issues)? Wikipedia articles are encyclopaedia articles, not Transperth publications. I'm thinking something like this:
Stop Route Destination / description Notes
[12223] Stand A2 41 to Bayswater via Lord Street, Eight Avenue, Maylands, Caledonian Street, Stone Street & Frington Street[1]
42 to Maylands via Lord Street & Peninsula Road[2]
... (rows omitted) ...
[12223] Stand A3 16 to Dianella via William Street, North Street, Wood Street, Crawford Road, Browning Street & Alexander Drive[3]
60 to Morley bus station via William Street, North Street, Dundas Road & Walter Road West[4]
etc. Info such as high-frequency or limited stops can be put in the notes column. We can make templates so that formatting is easy and consistent across articles (similar to the road junction list templates {{AUSinttop}} (headings), {{AUS-WAint}} (each row), {{Jctbtm}} (footer)). - Evad37 [talk] 06:25, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
    • Great improvement if there is a move away from colour coding - all transperth timetables since the elizabeh quay re-arrangement of the whole of perth public transport information are now white ok there are some still coloured, but not many . Any getting away from what looks like an extension of transperth publications that treads into WP:NOTGUIDE is to be encouraged wholeheartedly JarrahTree 06:36, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
      • What Jarrah Tree said. I see someone also beat me to taking photos of the new Elizabeth Quay Bus Station signage - I did a detour on my way home to do it and just checked and it was already done. The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:41, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
        • Yeah, I was there on Monday – but feel free to upload and use yours if you've got a better shot - Evad37 [talk] 09:04, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
          • I took a few but I think mine had the same problem: that is a surprisingly difficult sign to get to not look wonky in a photo! The Drover's Wife (talk) 09:53, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
  • Support removal of the colours. Standard wikitable colours are sufficient. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:14, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Started work on a template. Recreating the above table using it (apart from rows omitted note):

A caption could go here
Stop Route Destination / description Notes
[12223] Stand A2 41 to Bayswater via Lord Street, Eight Avenue, Maylands, Caledonian Street, Stone Street & Frington Street[5]
42 to Maylands via Lord Street & Peninsula Road[6]
[12223] Stand A3 16 to Dianella via William Street, North Street, Wood Street, Crawford Road, Browning Street & Alexander Drive[7]
60 to Morley bus station via William Street, North Street, Dundas Road & Walter Road West[8]A note could go here if needed
A key or legend could go here

References

  1. ^ Route 41 timetable Transperth
  2. ^ Route 42 timetable Transperth
  3. ^ Route 16 timetable Transperth
  4. ^ Route 60 timetable Transperth
  5. ^ Route 41 timetable Transperth
  6. ^ Route 42 timetable Transperth
  7. ^ Route 16 timetable Transperth
  8. ^ Route 60 timetable Transperth

- Evad37 [talk] 09:45, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Just wondering if the stop number could be after or below the stand number as it isn't particularly meaningful for most people. Hack (talk) 16:22, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
that is debatable, with the removal of many timetables from stop sign posts, the unique number of the stop can be phoned in to enquire about to transperths enquiry number to find out when the next bus is due. People do use the number, I have seen them do it. JarrahTree 23:41, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
For visual comparison of some different options: - Evad37 [talk] 00:20, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
Stop Route Destination / description Notes
[12223] Stand A2 1) Current usage
Stand A2 [12223] 2) Number at end
Stand A2
[12223]		 3) Number below
[12223] Stand A2 4) Small number at start
Stand A2 [12223] 5) Small number at end
Stand A2
[12223]		 6) Small number below


  • The operator legend is now orphaned. Is that information necessary? Hack (talk) 04:05, 4 February 2016 (UTC)


Does Template:TransperthBusStations cover all the articles with bus route tables needing reformatting? - Evad37 [talk] 09:23, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

There are also a lot of train station articles that would need reformatting as well. Hack (talk) 07:37, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
okay, I'll go through Template:Transperth railway stations as well - Evad37 [talk] 11:23, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Train station tables

I think we should similarly remove colours from the train services tables in train station articles (e.g. Perth railway station#Platforms & services), or at least restrict colours to the platform and/or Line columns. - Evad37 [talk] 13:13, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Remove the colours completely. Mitch Ames (talk) 10:59, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Here's a sample of what I've been working on:

[2776] Perth Underground station platforms
Stop Platform Line Stopping pattern Destination Notes
99601 1 Joondalup All stations Butler
K Clarkson Pattern K only operates on weekdays.[1]
W Whitfords Pattern W only operates on weekdays.[1]
99602 2 Mandurah All stations Mandurah
K Rockingham Pattern K only operates on weekdays.[1]
W Cockburn Central Pattern W only operates on weekdays.[1]

References

  1. ^ a b c d Joondalup Line timetable Transperth 21 September 2014

Any comments? - Evad37 [talk] 13:45, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

The colour coding is a little meaningful, is there some relatively minimalist way to include the line colour? Hack (talk) 05:46, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
How about a small coloured box:
[2776] Perth Undergound platforms
Stop Platform Line Stopping pattern Destination Notes
... 1 ■ Joondalup ... ... ...
Something like this is relatively minimal. Ping @Mitch Ames and Hack: - Evad37 [talk] 14:25, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
The small colour box is minimal, and would be reasonable if it were useful. But if we remove all the other colour from the tables (which I think we should do) then what value does the small colour box add? It might match Transperth timetables and maps, but I don't think we need to do that - it needs to match something in the Wikipedia article. The colour would be useful if, for example, we had a map showing multiple lines, colour coded, eg http://www.transperth.wa.gov.au/Tickets-Fares/Zone-Map. Is it appropriate and feasible to colour-code the tracks in {{Perth Rail Yard}}? Mitch Ames (talk) 00:57, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
I don't know if it's really appropriate to use Transperth colours rather than Wikipedia's own style (described at WP:RDT/C, Template:Railway track legend, and related pages). Like I said further up re the bus routes, Wikipedia articles are encyclopaedia articles, not Transperth publications. (As for feasability, it is possible, but would take some effort: all the little images that make up the {{Perth Rail Yard}} map would need to be recreated with Transperth colours.) - Evad37 [talk] 07:21, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Which WA region is Gulch Island in?

Editors interested in geography, regions or categories are invited to comment at Talk:Gulch Island (Western Australia)#Which region. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:57, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Meetup this Saturday in Fremantle

See Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/25 for details - Evad37 [talk] 11:28, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

And there's also a meta:Noongarpedia wikibomb next Monday (the 21st) from 4–7 pm at the State Library. —Sam Wilson 11:57, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Corina Abraham

Opinions are sought at Talk:Corina Abraham#Proposal to trim Opposition to Roe 8 on whether the existing Corina_Abraham#Opposition_to_Roe_8 is excessive in its quotations from and coverage of the contents of her letter to the Prime Minister, and appears to be non-neutral and advocating Abraham's stance. Mitch Ames (talk) 11:57, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

small step

The Western Australian project is now, or about to have 10k articles - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Western_Australia_articles - thanks to all the hard working editors over the last 10 years + who have got the project to this stage, and it is as much to the editors who have real life and other things who reduce their edits at various stages, but who nevertheless with their contributions, have made the project what it is

  • compared to other state projects - Tasmania hasnt even got to 4k yet
  • Queensland have cleared 11k but have a semi-active tag on their project page
  • Victoria dont even have assessment tables on their project page
  • New South Wales hasnt even got to 9k yet
  • South Australia hasnt even got to 5k yet
  • Northern Territory is still on the way to 2k...

In considering the actual real life populations and potential subjects/topics for each project, and proportion of active editors on the various state projects, it would appear that WA really has done well. Keep up the good work!! JarrahTree 14:17, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Not to take away from anything, but the total articles figures are for all pages including categories, templates, project pages etc. 10k total pages is still an achievement for WA, but a more accurate figure for articles would subtract the pages in Category:NA-importance Western Australia articles, resulting in 18590 articles for WA (and similar calculations could be done for other states) - Evad37 [talk] 14:36, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Fair enough, but when you realise that the Australian gross figures are 160k, then even state specific projects are somewhat diminished in proportion by other sub projects JarrahTree 23:29, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Corina Abraham (again)

Now that the AfD is finished, I'd like some comments on my proposal to trim the "Opposition to Roe 8" section. Details at Talk:Corina Abraham#Proposal to trim Opposition to Roe 8. Could we continue the discussion there please, not here, to avoid (further) fragmenting it. Thanks. Mitch Ames (talk) 06:25, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

After all the discussion that went into not deleting the article surely some editors (other than myself and Gnangarra) must have an opinion on its contents... Could editors who'll be attending WP:Meetup/Perth/27 at least of have a look at Talk:Corina Abraham#Proposal to trim Opposition to Roe 8; perhaps we can discuss it in person. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:27, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

I've raised an RfC: Talk:Corina Abraham#RfC: Opposition to Roe 8. Mitch Ames (talk) 07:04, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Meetup Saturday

HI Folks havent forgotten that we have a meetup scheduled for this saturday, still trying to find a venue that suits the needs of one of our guests. Watch this space will have the answer shortly and see you all at 18:00 Gnangarra 23:44, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

  • Venue will be the Lucky Shag at Barrack Square Gnangarra 05:35, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Do we know whether we'll be inside or outside? Mitch Ames (talk) 07:07, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
If its raining we'll be inside, if its cold we'll be inside, if the sun is shining and its 40degs then we'll be outside. Inside near the front to start with but there will enough of us to find each other. Gnangarra 12:55, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

The Northam Advertiser

I just created a stub for The Northam Advertiser newspaper since I was citing some articles from it. I struggled a bit to find out much about it, so thought I might mention it here in case anyone here has some better info. I did not add it to the List of newspapers in Australia or List of newspapers published in Western Australia as I was not sure how to position it in either structure. I think it is a defunct regional newspaper and I have no idea if it's a major/minor title. Thanks in advance for anything you can do to improve it. Kerry (talk) 02:36, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Geraldton vandalism

There has been a fair bit of adding non-notable residents to the notable resident section of Geraldton. The edits have been reverted each time but the IP has now taken to personal attacks. It might pay for other WA editors to keep a bit of an eye on the page. Regards, Calistemon (talk) 02:02, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Open House Perth 2016

For those who like to plan ahead...
Open House Perth 2016 will be 12-13 November 2016. There aren't many destinations listed yet, but we might want to think about Wikipedia:Wikipedia Takes Open House Perth 2016. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:11, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Strong support we get prepared and have good forward notice about it all JarrahTree 13:22, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
+1. We can have a meetup at/near one of the locations on one of those days. - Evad37 [talk] 14:19, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
Count me in - subject to locations/times of Open Houses of interest to me and locations/times of meetup. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:14, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Supreme Court has rejected Corina Abraham's Roe 8 challenge

The Supreme Court has rejected Corina Abraham's challenge to the Aboriginal heritage approval given for Roe 8. Those who understand the legal issue here better than I may care to update the relevant article(s). Mitch Ames (talk) 11:37, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

The news article has absolutely no mention of the judge's reasoning. The published decision is here; the table of contents starts on page 5. To sum it up very briefly, the Judge found that Main Roads consulted with Cockburn Aboriginal Advisory Committee (CAAC) through its Chairman, Rev Sealin Garlett, and there was no requirement for them to consult with Abraham personally, either in her role as a custodian for her people, a co-chair of the CAAC, or as an individual with a personal connection to the land. The basis for this is mainly covered in pages 25-33. I'll copy this over to the article's talk page. AtHomeIn神戸 (talk) 00:12, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Meetup reminder

Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/31 is this Sunday, 18 September 2016. Pinging @Samwilson, Bahnfrend, Dan arndt, Gnangarra, Orderinchaos, Bjenks, and Graham87: - Evad37 [talk] 02:59, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

@Evad37: Thanks for the reminder! :) See you on Sunday. —Sam Wilson 05:29, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Bus and train station articles

I'd like to get some opinions on article titles for our bus and train station articles. The current naming scheme is generally "Foo railway station" for train stations, including bus/train interchanges, and "Foo bus station" for bus-only stations (with ", Perth" for disambiguation when required). The names that Transperth uses, per [10] (also per signs at stations, example), are generally "Foo Station" for train stations, including bus/train interchanges, and "Foo Bus Station" for bus-only stations. Is there any reason not to use these names, disambiguating with ", Perth" when required (and keeping the existing titles as redirects)?
They seem to match the WP:NAMINGCRITERIA goals of recognisability, naturalness, precision, and conciseness (and if done as a group they would be consistent). Dropping "railway" better matches the scope of articles on interchanges (more precise and more recognisable), is shorter (more concise), is already used in piped links to articles e.g. with bus routes (more natural). WP:NCCAPS allows for capitalisation of proper names. - Evad37 [talk] 08:33, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

All of the Australian articles use "railway station", and it is really helpful for consistency. "Station" is vague (what station?), whereas the present usage is unambiguous. The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:50, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
Maybe, but parts of the government systems have insisted on train station usage. I agree with what Drovers' says, but there are usages around that do run in the face of common sense JarrahTree 08:55, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
... parts of the government systems have insisted on train station ... there are usages around that do run in the face of common sense
Government systems don't dictate Wikipedia policies - unless, of course, they dictate the names of the stations, which we then use for our article titles. When you said "there are usages around..." do you mean that we have existing train stations and/or Wikipedia articles named "Foo train station"? Examples would probably be helpful here. Mitch Ames (talk) 10:00, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
Consistency may be nice, but is not the only criterion to be considered. That the word "station" can refer to other types of things isn't necessarily relevant, given that these stations would be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and/or only topic for "Foo Station"/"Foo Station, Perth", and other potential uses, if any, can be dealt with as per disambiguation guideline (i.e. hatnotes or dab pages). The present situation results in the rather odd and non-natural constructs of interchanges being titled as railway stations, and the scope covered (bus and train) being beyond the implied scope from the title. - Evad37 [talk] 09:42, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
It's bizarre to move a bunch of articles from obvious, unambiguous names to ones that are going to need a bunch of hatnotes and other disambiguation just because you don't like the word "railway" to refer to a railway station. The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:54, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
Its not about what I like or don't like, but rather about what the sources use, what the naming guidelines say, and what the consensus turns out to be. A hatnote or two for the few that really (not just theoretically) need it is hardly a big deal. - Evad37 [talk] 01:07, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

FYI, what started me thinking about this was that we have separate articles for the bus and train sections of Canning Bridge Station: Canning Bridge bus station, and Canning Bridge railway station. Which should probably be merged into one article. - Evad37 [talk] 10:19, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Canning Bridge isn't a bus station (good luck finding WP:RS for that one), so yes, they should be merged. Not relevant to this, though. The Drover's Wife (talk) 10:54, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
Try John Holland Group; Western Australia. New MetroRail (2005), Package D : construction of Leach Highway and South Street stations and alterations to existing Canning Bridge bus station : environmental management plan, Public Transport Authority, New MetroRail, retrieved 1 October 2016 JarrahTree 10:57, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
According to WP:NAMINGCRITERIA:
Article titles are based on how reliable ... sources refer to the article's subject.
and WP:COMMONNAME:
Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" [Transperth's] name ...; it generally prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in ... reliable sources.
What do term is used by most sources to refer to the stations? (I realise this is not a simple question to answer, and the answer may vary between stations, but we need to a least consider it.) Mitch Ames (talk) 11:47, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
Taking Butler railway station as an example of a recently constructed station: Google search for butler station -wiki -wikipedia (country:Australia) should bring up all permutations involving Butler and station. The first page of results gives:
  • [11] Transperth: "Butler Station"
  • [12] Public Transport Authority (PTA): "Butler Station"
  • [13] PTA: "Butler station", "Butler Park ‘n’ Ride Station"
  • [14] PTA: "Butler Station"
  • [15] WA Today: "Butler station", "Butler Station"
  • [16] Garis Group: "Butler train station", "Butler Station"
  • [17] Perth Now: "Butler train station"
  • [18] Coniglio Ainsworth Architects: "Butler Station"
  • [19] Right Track (PTA/Transperth): "Butler Station"
And from the second page of results:
  • [20] Rail Express: "Butler Station", "Butler railway station"
  • [21] WA Gov. media statement: "Butler Station"
  • [22] (.docx): Engineers Australia / Railway Technical Society of Australasia: "Butler Station"
  • [23] ABC News: "Butler train station", "Butler station"
  • [24] Riteck: "Butler Train Station"
  • [25] Western Independent (Curtin University): "Butler Train Station"
  • [26] The West Australian: "Butler train station"
The snippets Google showed for the next few pages of results had "Butler station", "Butler Station", "Butler train station", "Butler Train Station", and [27] (Expo Trade) with "Butler rail station".
By comparison, a Google search for "butler railway station" -wiki -wikipedia (country:Australia) brings up the Rail Express page from above, various real estate/property websites (which look like they may have used the wikipedia article, or an old version of it, as a source), and by the second page of results is bringing up totally unrelated websites such as [28].
Other stations, particularly older stations, may have different results, and may have a high proportion of offline sources. - Evad37 [talk] 02:00, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for going to the trouble to show the issue as it stands. In the case of trove - one can see the historical pressure of the traditional naming

http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=perth+railway+station
http://trove.nla.gov.au/result?q=perth+train+station

just on the loose open search... JarrahTree 02:12, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Online usage for Guildford railway station, Perth (as an example of an old station):
  • Google search for guildford station -wiki -wikipedia -nsw -vic -sydney -melbourne -london (country:Australia):
    • [29] Jaxon: "GUILDFORD STATION", "Guildford Train Station"
    • [30] (.pdf) PTA: "Guildford Station"
    • [31] Smart Transport (WA gov): "Guildford Station", "Guildford Train Station"
    • [32] Main Roads Western Australia: "Guildford Station", "Guildford Railway Station"
    • [33] Business News Western Australia: "Guildford station", "Guildford train station"
    • [34] (.pdf) Swan Valley Visitor Centre: "Guildford Train Station"
    • [35],[36] Transperth: "Guildford Station"
    • [37] (.pdf) Department of Transport: "Guildford Station"
    • [38] Conservation Council of Western Australia: "Guildford Station"
    • [39] Swan Guildford Historical Society: "Guildford Train Station", "Guildford Station"
    • [40] (.pdf) Alyssa Hayden MLC media release: "Guildford Train Station"
    • [41] (.pdf) City of Swan: "Guildford station"
    • (that's up to page 3 of the results)
  • Google search for "guildford railway station" -wiki -wikipedia -nsw -vic -sydney -melbourne -london (country:Australia):
    • Main Roads, same page as above, "Guildford Station", "Guildford Railway Station"
    • [42] The West Australian 1885 (Trove): "GUILDFORD STATION", "Guildford railway station"
    • [43] City of Swan: "Guildford Railway Station"
    • [44] .pdf at State Library WA, no author/title/publication details: "Guildford railway station"
- Evad37 [talk] 04:21, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
  • for operating locations Would it not be what the PTA calls the location that defines its name, for closed it would need to be what was known as by the site operator when it closed unless a case can be made for it being known as something else, for every thing else we have redirects. Gnangarra 05:49, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

@Mitch Ames, JarrahTree, and The Drover's Wife: any further comments/thoughts? - Evad37 [talk] 00:57, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Public transport in WA

There seems to be a bit of interest in public transport here, just wondering if it was worth creating a task force for WA public transport or even transport generally. Hack (talk) 05:00, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

I'd be interested. The Drover's Wife (talk) 06:58, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
For a broader context - there has been at least one suggestion for railways in Australia task force in the past but nothing came of the proposal (some states transport categories/articles are better than others - the undue balance being part of an issue why the national focus could be better than the state level from some perspectives)

With all proposals like this it is always worth seeing how other ventures have fared, and it is worth looking at examples of task forces/projects for transport in much smaller geographical areas but more complex systems:

Wikipedia:WikiProject_Transport_in_Scotland
Wikipedia:WikiProject_London_Transport
Wikipedia:WikiProject_Trains/Rail_transport_in_Germany_task_force is a taskforce specifically for railway topics

For a larger area focus, Canada do not seem to have gone any further than the article Transportation_in_Canada

Having looked at all these, I believe a WA trasnport taskforce is ok as long as the precedents of the other ventures is considered JarrahTree 10:22, 4 October 2016 (UTC)


I don't know, I'm kind of on the fence about this. I mean, how much benefit is there going to be from having a formal task force compared to the informal collaboration that happens on this page? And there are definite time costs associated with setting it up, including getting project banners set up, creating all those assessment categories, tagging all relevant pages, and the almost inevitable deletion discussion that occurs when new stub templates/cats are created. - Evad37 [talk] 00:32, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Very good point raised. The parent Australian project hardly has a critical mass of diverse editors to sustain the larger project across the full range of project maintenance, and all the rest that goes with keeping it from having semi active tag from some bright spark from elsewhere. On that basis the freakish coincidence of a few eds on this project being interested in transport issues at the one time hardly justifies the effort. Good idea though. JarrahTree 00:42, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

The discussion doesn't have to go anywhere else, just thought it might be useful to have some more coordination eg todo/task lists, tagging of articles, etc. Hack (talk) 03:06, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Very important when that can happen, dont let me discourage the intention JarrahTree 08:10, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

10 Years

Wednesday the 1 Febraury 2017 will be the tenth anniversary of in person activities in Western Australia, we cant let this pass by without some fanfare any thoughts. Gnangarra 12:31, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

There are likely page watchers/ low edit editors who need to be reminded regularly that this is an opportunity not to be lost JarrahTree 07:17, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

St John the Baptist Church

Hi Folks, please becareful about deleting redirects that are potentially linked to QR codes as this actions breaks those links and affects the project. I have restored 2 redirects today related to St John the Baptist Church (Toodyay ) as it will need to be checked out in person as to which is the correct link, unfortunately I dont have a car for 2 weeks to drive the necessary 200km round trip if any one else has the time please do. Gnangarra 07:10, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps we need a template that we can put on such redirect pages, saying something like "this page is the target of a QR code, please don't delete it". Mitch Ames (talk) 08:42, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
they did have the toodyaypedia template on the talk page, and previously attempts to put template and categories in articles just ends up in them being removed because its noa notable factor related to the subject Gnangarra 08:56, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
Presumably the problem is people deleting redirects rather than articles. Putting a notice on the redirect ought not be a problem, because readers don't normally see them - and we already do it, eg {{R from move}}. WP:RFD requires putting something on the (normally not seen) redirect page, so an editor doing that would see the "please don't delete - QR target" notice, as would an admin deleting the redirect.
Perhaps also add an explicit mention of QR codes to WP:RFD#KEEP, if there are enough of them. (It's actually a specific case of 4 "You risk breaking incoming ... links", but without a notice to say so it's probably not feasible to determine that the redirect is QR target.) Mitch Ames (talk) 09:09, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
if the categories are too small or the template not used enough it gets deleted, yes redirects are rare on qrcodes but they do happen, in case I'm not sure that either is used it just needs to be checked and there is only so many things that can get done at one time in this I'm particularly hamstrung without a car Gnangarra 09:24, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

Cfd: Mundaring

WA editors are invited to comment at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 October 24 on a proposal to split Category:Mundaring, Western Australia into separate categories for the suburb and the shire. Mitch Ames (talk) 02:28, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

It needs any editor who has edited or dealt with locality or lga articles in the state - as it seems to be bogged down in mind numbing distinctions. JarrahTree 07:59, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Life in Canning

Wikipedia:Meetup/Perth/Life in Canning is photographic event to create a digital time capsule of Life in Canning, see page for details Gnangarra 07:48, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

    • Its this saturday Gnangarra 11:54, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Noongarpedia

Some additional coverage on the ABC today prompted me to start a draft article at Draft:Noongarpedia. Any help would be appreciated, at the moment its not much more than a couple of sentences and a bunch of refs. - Evad37 [talk] 03:31, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Open House Perth

is this weekend (WP:Wikipedia Takes Open House Perth 2016). Anyone want to meetup tomorrow, say 12pm at City of Perth Library cafe? (sorry for the late notice) - Evad37 [talk] 23:21, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

@Samwilson, Mitch Ames, Bahnfrend, JarrahTree, Dan arndt, Gnangarra, Orderinchaos, Bjenks, and Graham87: - Evad37 [talk] 23:23, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

New 5000 Challenge for Australia

Hi, Wikipedia:WikiProject Australia/The 5000 Challenge and the wider Wikipedia:WikiProject Oceania/The 10,000 Challenge are up and running based on Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge for the UK which has currently produced over 2300 article improvements and creations. If you'd like to see large scale quality improvements happening for Australia and Oceania like The Africa Destubathon, which has produced over 1600 articles in 5 weeks, sign up on the page. The idea will be an ongoing national editathon/challenge for Australia but fuelled by a contest if desirable to really get articles on every state/territory and subject mass improved. After every 100 articles done for Australia this would feed into the main Oceania one. I will start a 1000 one for your state if there is the support. I would like some support from wikipedians here to get the Challenge off to a start anyway with some articles to make doing a Destubathon for Australia and Oceania worthwhile! Cheers.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:14, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm not actually a fan of specific challenges and contests, but I'd created First Church of Christ, Scientist, Perth anyway, so feel free to add it to the list. Mitch Ames (talk) 01:18, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

2016 Community Wishlist Survey Proposal to Revive Popular Pages

Greetings WikiProject Western Australia/Archive 9 Members!

This is a one-time-only message to inform you about a technical proposal to revive your Popular Pages list in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey that I think you may be interested in reviewing and perhaps even voting for:

If the above proposal gets in the Top 10 based on the votes, there is a high likelihood of this bot being restored so your project will again see monthly updates of popular pages.

Further, there are over 260 proposals in all to review and vote for, across many aspects of wikis.

Thank you for your consideration. Please note that voting for proposals continues through December 12, 2016.

Best regards, Stevietheman — Delivered: 18:19, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Wilhelmsen House, Anchor Food and G. Wood, Son & Co

WA editors interested in Fremantle history are invited to comment at Talk:Wilhelmsen House#Anchor Food and G. Wood, Son & Co. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:40, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

Fremantle West End Heritage area

WA editors are invited to comment at Talk:Fremantle West End Heritage area#Name of the area and hence the article. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:07, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

While on the subject of names what about Daisy_Bates_(Australia) see:Talk:Daisy_Bates_(Australia)#Disambiguation surely treating her as a placename is inappropriate. Gnangarra 14:15, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Proposed category name change

For the Perth and Wa project - a new year suprise: -

---

  • 19:00, 1 January 2017 (diff | hist) . . (+303)‎ . . Category:Writers from Perth, Western Australia ‎ (Up for renaming using AWB) (current) [rollback: 1 edit] [rollback] [vandalism
  • 19:00, 1 January 2017 (diff | hist) . . (+304)‎ . . Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Perth, Western Australia ‎ (Up for renaming using AWB) (current) [rollback: 1 edit] [rollback] [vandalism]
  • 19:00, 1 January 2017 (diff | hist) . . (+303)‎ . . Category:Transport in Perth, Western Australia ‎ (Up for renaming using AWB) (current) [rollback: 1 edit] [rollback] [vandalism]
  • 19:00, 1 January 2017 (diff | hist) . . (+302)‎ . . Category:Tourist attractions in Perth, Western Australia ‎ (Up for renaming using AWB) (current) [rollback: 1 edit] [rollback] [vandalism
  • 19:00, 1 January 2017 (diff | hist) . . (+303)‎ . . Category:Theatres in Perth, Western Australia ‎ (Up for renaming using AWB) (current)

---

And so on. There are other editors who are in the WA or Perth projects who might wish to comment (most CFDs like this usually never get mentioned at the project talk pages that are relative to the change...)

Newer editors might want to check the archive of this talk page (or the talk page of the Perth article) to see the earlier events and conversations...

Happy new year fellow Perth and WA editors - something to think about, even better you may wish to comment JarrahTree 13:45, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

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