The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. Ifconsensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Austria, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles about Austria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project.AustriaWikipedia:WikiProject AustriaTemplate:WikiProject AustriaAustria articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bavaria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Bavaria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BavariaWikipedia:WikiProject BavariaTemplate:WikiProject BavariaBavaria articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the history of Europe on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European historyWikipedia:WikiProject European historyTemplate:WikiProject European historyEuropean history articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Discrimination, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Discrimination on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DiscriminationWikipedia:WikiProject DiscriminationTemplate:WikiProject DiscriminationDiscrimination articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles that are spoken on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Spoken WikipediaWikipedia:WikiProject Spoken WikipediaTemplate:WikiProject Spoken WikipediaSpoken Wikipedia articles
Change
"Sometime in the 1930s, Hitler adopted a mainly vegetarian diet,[412][413] avoiding all meat and fish from 1942 onwards. At social events, he sometimes gave graphic accounts of the slaughter of animals in an effort to make his guests shun meat."
To
"Sometime in the 1930s, Hitler adopted a mainly vegetarian diet,[412][413] avoiding all meat and fish from 1942 onwards. At social events, he sometimes gave graphic accounts of the slaughter of animals in an effort to spoil the appetite of meat-eating guests; although this was not ethically motivated but rather a dislike of the hypocrisy of being disgusted by the process that gets meat to their plate while having no issue eating the meat." Or something along those lines.
Because the source cited for the last sentence implies the motive being to get them to shun meat which has ethical connotations when the source makes no such implications and portrays it rather as a form of trolling the guests if anything as clearly stated by "his distaste for meat knew no pity of animals" in the source.
"For a start, his distaste for meat knew no pity of animals. At mealtimes he often boasted - in graphic detail - of a slaughterhouse he had visited in Ukraine. It amused him to spoil carnivorous guests' appetites. As they put their forks down in disgust, he would harangue them for hypocrisy. "That shows how cowardly people are," he would say. "They can't face doing certain horrible things themselves, but they enjoy the benefits without a pang of conscience." Mhd25112 (talk) 15:15, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please add this paragraph to the end of the Ancestry section --
More recent scholarship by Leonard Sax points out that many Jews lived in places without official sanction and demonstrated the existence of a settled Jewish community in Graz before the law formally permitted their residence, saying that "Contemporary historians have largely dismissed Frank’s claim, primarily on the grounds that there were purportedly no Jews living in Graz in 1836, when Hitler’s father Alois Schicklgruber was conceived. This consensus can be traced to a single historian, Nikolaus von Preradovich," a Nazi sympathizer, "who claimed that “not a single Jew” (kein einziger Jude) was living in Graz prior to 1856. No independent scholarship has confirmed Preradovich’s conjecture. In this paper, evidence is presented that there was in fact eine kleine, nun angesiedelte Gemeinde – “a small, now settled community” – of Jews living in Graz before 1850." And that "The hypothesis that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Jewish, as claimed by Hans Frank, may fit the facts better than the alternative hypothesis that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Johann Georg Hiedler or Johann Nepomuk Hiedler."[1][2][3][4][5][6]
Not done This article is about Hitler, not about the history of the Jews in Graz, and is therefore too much detail for this particular article. However the detail that Jewish residency was illegal in the area at the time is also too much detail, so I am taking that out. — Diannaa (talk) 18:50, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please add this paragraph to the end of the Ancestry section --
More recent scholarship by Leonard Sax points out contemporary historians have largely dismissed Hitler's Jewish heritage based on "a single historian, Nikolaus von Preradovich" a Nazi sympathizer, and that "The hypothesis that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Jewish, as claimed by Hans Frank, may fit the facts better than the alternative hypothesis that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Johann Georg Hiedler or Johann Nepomuk Hiedler." [1][2][3][4][5][6]98.46.117.2 (talk) 13:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hitler Ancestry section suggests that Hitler's father Alois was the son of one of the Hiedler brothers, and dismisses the Frankenberger thesis. The last entry in this section should be the latest research by Sax, which was just recently added to the Frankenberger thesis article. Sax shows that Jews were present but not registered in Graz at the time of Alois' conception.
"a claim that came to be known as the Frankenberger thesis. No Frankenberger was registered in Graz during that period, no record has been produced of Leopold Frankenberger's existence, so historians dismiss the claim that Alois's father was Jewish." 98.46.117.2 (talk) 15:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's now two of us that object to adding this: myself and Moxy. We don't need to expand on the Frankenberger thesis in the Hitler article; we've already said that historians reject the thesis that Hitler was part Jewish; if people want more info on this topic they can go to Frankenberger thesis. — Diannaa (talk) 15:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Then a compromise would be to remove the following text from the Ancestry section ...
"No Frankenberger was registered in Graz during that period, no record has been produced of Leopold Frankenberger's existence, so historians dismiss the claim that Alois's father was Jewish." 67.173.189.111 (talk) 17:07, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-3 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
.svg){kind=small}
.svg){kind=small}
Not done: I would ask for consensus before making this change, but if another editor wants to make it, feel free. thetechie@enwiki: ~/talk/ $ 03:17, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Not done This article is about Hitler, not about the history of the Jews in Graz, and is therefore too much detail for this particular article. However the detail that Jewish residency was illegal in the area at the time is also too much detail, so I am taking that out. — Diannaa (talk) 18:50, 22 June 2024 (UTC)