Talk:Ajvar

Mark it as Serbian article

As this article has been finally written nice and that is originally Serbian dish, can you please mark it as {{Serbia-stub}} or so? Also you didn't put Serbia in [[ ]]. Thank you for correcting it in advance.

I agree with this. Please put Serbian and also Serbian Cyrillic + as Serbia-stub / article or Serbian cuisine. Thank you and smart move to lock it so vandals can't rename and put false facts.79.175.120.216 (talk) 19:45, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Origin of ajvar

Most likely it originated in Serbia, since a lot of food from Serbia was influneced by Hungarian cuisine whitch then spread to north Serbia and lower. Serbia and Montenegro also have it's own recepes whitch use a lot of spices and ingredients found in ajvar such as paprikash and Punyene Paprika (spelling please, not a native Serbian speaker) As far as I know Serbia as well as Bulgaria and elements of their culture influenced Macedonia a lot during the time of SFRY, so it's plausable that Macedonia borrowed some of it's national cuisine into its own. For example, "sirene" is Bulgarian cheese but now you can also find it in Macedonia. --From Marusha.

It's "punjene paprike" ;-) Everything you wrote is nice, but wikipedia has one important rule: no original research. That means, if you have sources that support your claim, fine, cite your sources and add that info to the article. But, if you have a new theory, wikipedia is not the place to put it... --Dijxtra 08:16, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

There is also given false etymology: caviar and ajvar traces etymology to indo-iranian origin, word is much older than Ottoman conquests in Asia Minor and Balkans. Pre-Ottoman turkish dictionary does not have similar word. http://www.iranica.com/articles/caviar Someone common with linguistics and history knows for Slavic and Iranian contacts in lower Danube and Upper Caspian region. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.69.5.228 (talk) 11:03, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Ajvar is not Serbian alone and origin is unknown 100%. It could be Macedonian or Croatian too...............; Lets call it Former Yugoslav or Balkan................

• No, it's the wrong way. The word is of turkish origin, so it cannot be genuin Croatian. Cevapcici for instance, a femous Balkanmeal were imported in Croatia in 1960s by Serbian tourists on the seaside. If thay had spread from Bosnia, the name in Croatia would be cevapi, as it is in Bosnia. The word c(v)apcici was till the 90s the only one existing in Serbia, and it's a quasideminutiv as it is often made in Leskovac-are in Serbia were best cevapcici come from. It's the same with Karadjordjeva snicla (after a Serbian ruler), sopska salata (it's a county in east Serbia)- all of these dishes were not existing in Croatia befor 1950s-1970s. Croatian cousin is mediterranian and austrian. One is for sure, there was no such a dish as ajvar in Croatia when it was allready made in every house in Serbia.

The fect that the word Paprika is of Serbian origin (which is accepted etimological fact) is a strong linguistic clue that ajvar comes from Serbia- see also Etimoloski recnik srpskog jezika, 1, 2003. --Luzzifer 00:27, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

And it's relevant to Ajvar because...? Second, the situation is not as simple as you present it OED says that Hungarian was the mediator language from Slavic papar, but pepper itself is of Middle Indic origins, so the Serbo-Croatian origin of "paprika" is really stretched. And your English leaves a lot to be desired. The "strong linguistic clue that ajvar comes from Serbia" is your original research. Reverting. Duja► 15:39, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

---

• Sure it is. Paprika is of Sebian/Croatian origin. That is a common fact.

• Ajvar isn't eaten at all in Hungary. There is some 'paprikakrem' which is used to make paprikas, but it is not made like ajvar - not cooked in oil. And it is not eaten as a side-dish like ajvar. Ramencity - 9 May 2007

• With all respect due to everyone, Ajvar is just [baba ghanoush]. Seeing how eggplant wasn't known in the west until 1500 CE, despite whose grandma first baba-ghanoush-ed "Ajvar", and with Podravka now trying to usurp Ajvar as a trademark, I think we can all agree its all of ours. WRONG WRONG you are confusing pindjur with ajvar , ajvar is originally serbian cousine, has nothing to do with your s

• Peppers were unknown in the entire Eastern Hemisphere until at least 1500. Largoplazo (talk) 14:01, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

I♥Ajvar!Pinđur Sun Aug 19 08:54:28 2007 GMT —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.191.39.86 (talk) 08:54:54, August 19, 2007 (UTC)

Wow so much ignorance , PINDJUR is more similar to baba ghanoush because it is made of eggplant. Ajvar is different.— Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

Alvar is Macedonian....You will not find ingredients of Ajvar in other countries. Other Balkan countries have versions of it. Point!

Why people are righting such nonsense (like explanation about ajvar and sirenje) without having any knowledge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.13.12.30 (talk) 12:38, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

You've given no more basis for your assertion than anyone else has for theirs, yet here you are accusing others of not having any knowledge. As though your pridefulness outweighs that of everyone else. As for "nonsense", what ingredient in ajvar is found nowhere outside Macedonia? "You will not find ingredients of Ajvar in other countries" is nonsense. Largoplazo (talk) 12:45, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Ajvar made of bell peppers??

Since when ajvar is made of bell peppers? I am Macedonian and I have never heard of such an ajvar. Maybe there are some remote chances for such thing existing somewhere (most likely an idividual idea rather than any uniform custom), but it is certainly extremely uncommon to the point of not even being worthy of mention in this article, let alone stating at the beginning that bell peppers are its primary ingredient ! --B. Jankuloski 08:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I now understand that what in the Balkans is reffered to as "Paprika" is actually one of the several shapes that the vegetable called "bell pepper" in English can assume. Indeed a weird way of classifying things. --B. Jankuloski 09:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the English nomenclature for the plant is thoroughly confusing. Duja► 09:15, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Not that confusing. Bell pepper is just another cultivar of the Capsicum annuum species, which also includes cultivars like jalapeño, cayenne, piquín and other chile peppers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.251.97.211 (talk) 18:19, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

OK everybody! Let's make peace and call it, Italian/Global-style, peperone (plural: peperoni); and, mind you, NOT "pepperoni"! Ciao! Brumon (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 08:41, 6 February 2011 (UTC).

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This is an automated message regarding an image used on this page. The image File:Ajvar hot Podravka.jpg, found on Ajvar, has been nominated for deletion because it does not meet Wikipedia image policy. Please see the image description page for more details. If this message was sent in error (that is, the image is not up for deletion, or was left on the wrong talk page), please contact this bot's operator. STBotI (talk) 16:21, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Edit warring

This article has seen too much edit warring, needs a lot of cleanup and falls under the discretionary sanctions put forth at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Macedonia#Discretionary_sanctions. All edits should be cited inline to an independent, verifiable source. More than one PoV or outlook can be carried, but all PoVs must be cited. Uncited text may be removed by any good faith editor. Any edits I've made to the text have been meant only as cleanup and/or mediation. Many of the edits I made have been undone, which is ok. I'm neutral and not involved as to the editorial content. If there is disagreement as to how sources should be echoed in the text, please talk about it here on the talk page, do not edit war. Users who edit war may be banned from this topic for some time. Gwen Gale (talk) 12:01, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

please stop faking this page, since you have removed about 20 refferencesArdura (talk) 19:01, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

You're mistaken about the "faking" (did you read what I posted above?). If you edit war, you will either be blocked from editing or banned from editing this page. If another editor edit wars, they will either be blocked from editing or banned from editing this page. If there is a disagreement about sources or the text, it must be discussed here on the talk page. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:05, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

I think it's more Macedonian then any else

Just start from this point, Macedonia produces the most peppers(paprika) for Ajvar, it exports huge quantity of it to the balkan countries, practicaly all families make it throut the country, so I would say it is a more Macedonian thing then any other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.7.159.250 (talk) 13:21, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

It originates from Serbian cuisine. Nevertheless who produces pepper : )) Leskovac peppers and ajvar are the best and big quantity ;)109.121.8.189 (talk) 03:24, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Paprika grows abundantly in southern Serbia and Macedonia and there's really no sharp border between these areas except purely political one (people on both sides live, talk and act mostly in same ways) so I'm ok with saying ajvar is either Macedonian or Serbian. As of claim it's Slovene, it's ridiculous, peppers don't grow in mountains.

That's like saying chocolate mousse isn't French because cacao trees don't grow in France. Largoplazo (talk) 10:43, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

lock

why is this page locked? -Lostguy101 (talk) 04:11, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Because the "editors" are degenerate imbeciles who lack the basic evolutionary traits to be classified as Homo Sapiens Sapiens, they are the Balkan version of humans (Untermensch if you will) who have no business discussing cuisine (should go pick the peppers). Having given you the reason for that, I'd like to invite everyone interested in Balkan cuisine (as in the cuisine that predates the nations occupying the peninsula), to go read an edited cookbook. As a possessional Chef, I personally guarantee that the article here is inaccurate, biased, irrelevant and a waste of eye-movement. I'm ashamed by the loads of manure defecated here as person from the Balkans —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.143.254.186 (talk) 14:25, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Improve the standard of English used

"However, the domestic production of ajvar/caviar was continuously striked since..."?

restarurants?

Don't the editors proof-read? Would have edited it myself, but since the article is locked, maybe an official editor will do the honors? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.180.156.114 (talk) 15:47, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Palachinka, 8 March 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Please include an external link to http://palachinkablog.com/ajvar/. It is a step-by-step traditional recipe on making Ajvar in Serbia. Palachinka (talk) 10:23, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Not done: See WP:ELNO #11. —GƒoleyFour— 13:30, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

"Best ajvar" section

isn't this an opinion? If it isn't an opinon I think it needs a source explaining why mass produced or foriegn can't cook the peppers correctly.

And it is misleading to say how little is produced unless it is specified that it is the Serbian variety. At a local grocery store there is a set of shelves filled with ajvar from a variety of places. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.79.210.95 (talk) 08:20, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

This article must be a joke

I remember checking this page years ago. It used to claim that Ajvar was a Serbian dish without any neutral source given and all of the sources being Serbian. I raised an eyebrow, but didn't bother back then. And now I see that ajvar is listed as a Macedonian dish without any reliable, neutral sources given. And to make things worse, this was listed as a source by some Macedonian troll:

Freud's Own Cookbook

"A parody of Sigmund Freud's writings. This book features his theories about food and cooking, and recipes for his favorite dishes."

I won't even bother checking this out. How is this a reliable source? Let's assume that isn't an usual parody and that the author did a lot of research on ajvar (which is most unlikely, being a parody). This book was written in 70-ies when Macedonia was still a part of Yugoslavia and I can guess that the author probably tasted some ajvar that was produced in today's Macedonia (probably Vitaminka) and then mentioned it in his books. Someone might check it out and see if it even mentions ajvar.

I know that ajvar is considered a national dish in all countries of former Yugoslavia. This article really, REALLY needs some serious editing from someone more knowledge than myself. Someone might search for ajvar on Google, open this article and be left complete confused. I know that ajvar is loved in Macedonia (and IMHO Macedonia produces some awesome ajvars), but this is the first time I heard that ajvar is originally a Macedonian dish. I do not say that Serbian or Macedonian ajvar is wrong, but I do not think that anyone knows its true origins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.239.208 (talk) 12:02, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Last time it became Macedonian after this edit. Ajvar seems to change its nationality quite frequently, at least several times a year (e.g. here and here). There are quite many "editors", mostly anonymous IPs, who don't care about any sources, but consider such foods (not only this one, but many others too) their national pride. --Off-shell (talk) 23:34, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

2016....and the fiasco with questionable sources remains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.138.44.223 (talk) 22:31, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

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Incorrect/non-English spelling of "ayvar"

Ayvar as many know is spoken with the "j" pronounced as an "i", rendering "aivar" or ayvar, as its spelled abroad.

It is not appropriate for wikipedia to use non-English spellings of things because it results in an incorrect use of English. The letter "j" in English is used as an affricative, a "stopping" sound. This results in a crazy pronounciation of "ajvar" as "adge-var", or "ashe-var". It would be less confusing for researchers if the spelling of this article was changed to "Ayvar" in order to aid correct pronunciation of the word and more importantly, correct use of English.Addeps3 (talk) 11:04, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

I've never seen it spelled "ayvar" or "aivar" before. On the jar of it in my fridge, labeled entirely in English, it's spelled "ajvar". Is it better to "confuse" people who are looking for it under that spelling?

However: When any term has multiple spellings, we handle that with redirects, like the one I just created at Ayvar, and hatnotes, like the one that already exists at Aivar. As for the pronunciation, that's given in the article. Largoplazo (talk) 11:24, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

It is confusing for the average person to pronounce something arbitrarily and have the listener not understand what they're referring to. The relish is called ayvar, but colloqially spelled ajvar. Wikipedia can help correct this idiocy among people who dont know what ayvar is or how its spoken. My point about labels was that they are not mispronounced overseas, typically. Since that is how its pronounced, then it makes sense to spell it with correct English. Nobody reads ajvar as "ayvar" thus I was making a motion to shed light on things for people. Addeps3 (talk) 17:22, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

I already addressed every point you made in your latest set of remarks.

Saying ajvar is "colloquially" spelled "ajvar" is like saying that croissant is "colloquially" spelled "croissant", and that Wikipedia should list it under "crwassont" to "correct this idiocy" and prevent people from pronouncing it "croy-sint". (Like Ajvar, Croissant provides the pronunciation.) Largoplazo (talk) 11:28, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 25 July 2020

Remove emoji from lead. Amend Croatian language template in lead to use {{Template:Lang-hr}} Remove 'Ajvar-Serbian-cuisine' broken ref. Darren-M talk 01:03, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

 Done Protection level has now been reduced, so been able to self-serve on this. Closed. Darren-M talk 02:09, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Lead

Can I invite discussion on the lead, which I can see has had intense edit warring. Can I propose we change:

Ajvar (pronounced: /ˈaɪvɑːr/; Serbian: ajвар / ajvar; Bulgarian: aйвар, romanized: ayvar; Macedonian: aјвар, romanized: ajvar; Croatian: ajvar; Turkish: ayvar) is a condiment made principally from red bell peppers and oil. Ajvar is used in Southeast Europe, in Albania 🇦🇱,Kosovo🇽🇰🇦🇱👐🏽Serbian, Bosnian, Bulgarian, Croatian, Macedonian, Montenegrin and to a small degree the Slovenian cuisine. It became a popular side dish throughout Yugoslavia after World War II and is nowadays popular in Southeastern Europe, however the delicacy itself is not claimed by a Balkan nation and instead is disputed in the region.

To

Ajvar is a condiment made principally from red bell peppers and oil. It became a popular side dish throughout Yugoslavia after World War II and is nowadays popular in Southeastern Europe.

Best, Darren-M talk 01:12, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Darren-M, I concur especially given that the pp expires in 7 days, it would be embarassing to have the leade like that for so long. Mello it down for now, at least. Sam-2727 (talk) 01:27, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Admin note: I am going to reduce the full protection to semi-protection. That should allow you regular users to restore a stable version of the lead. My impression is that the longtime stable version was something like this: "Ajvar is used in the Balkans in Albanian, Bosnian, Bulgarian, Croatian, Macedonian, Montenegrin, Serbian, and to a small degree the Slovenian cuisine." Recent changes and edit warring have involved adding Kosovo, removing and re-adding Albanian, and changing Balkans to Southern Europe. But this is just my impression, and I invite you regular editors to either restore a previous stable version, or to replace it with the simplified version proposed above (which might reduce the temptation to add and remove countries). -- MelanieN (talk) 01:54, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, the intention here is very much to dodge the issue - if we include a list of countries we're always going to have a dispute over which those countries are - the proposed amend above seems significantly less controversial and less likely to drive disruption. Darren-M talk 02:01, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

I've swapped to my proposed wording above as a tactical solution, but conscious that I have allowed very little time for discussion prior to editing (as keen to remove the vandalised version) - I'm happy to re-visit if other contributors would prefer a more detailed version more akin to what has been replaced. Darren-M talk 02:07, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Comment about protection

User:Deepfriedokra asked me to take a look at the page and evaluate the protection. My analysis is that full protection is not necessary to stop the disruption. It looks to me as if the nationalistic additions/removals/edit warring are being done by new users and IPs, while a few regular users try to restore the longtime stable version of the article. I think they should be allowed to do so and I am going to reduce the full protection to semi-protection. -- MelanieN (talk) 01:44, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks MelanieN. Happy to work through restoring this to a more stable version per my comments above once the protection is amended. Thanks again for reviewing. Best, Darren-M talk 01:56, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

We should also nominate this for the lamest edit-war page, nationalism in the Balkans never fails to surprise me. --James Richards (talk) 10:06, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Традиционално сервиран ајвар.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:37, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

History of Ajvar book citation

Page 81 read it do not delete this discussion

Oikos and Market: Explorations in Self-Sufficiency after Socialism https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=ZNGdBAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA81&dq=ajvar&ots=WkC0Xdiiqs&sig=PnkVa1EYksozdSI6FfyHFYDLnts#v=onepage&q=ajvar&f=true — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:CDA0:1060:4573:D65F:FCFB:8132 (talk) 15:21, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 July 2024

Add to Category:Romani cuisine 2600:6C50:7E00:316:C169:F0B4:EC7A:CFBD (talk) 08:46, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done Charliehdb (talk) 10:39, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 July 2024 (2)

Add to Category:Kosovan cuisine 2600:6C50:7E00:316:C169:F0B4:EC7A:CFBD (talk) 08:47, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done Charliehdb (talk) 10:38, 28 July 2024 (UTC)