Talk:Al Capone/Archive 3

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Clarence Busch who sold Capone the Palm Island house was the son of The state printer of Pennsylvania Clarence Busch No relation to the beer family -Sites of the Frontier Forts of Pennsylvania). Clarence M. Busch. Pennsylvania 1896. State Printer of

I’m aware that several people claim that because it sounds good Al Capone museum says larence Busch, the Philadelphia realtor/ banker (not to be confused with the beer magnate) who was the previous owner and builder of 93 Palm Island wrote a letter to Florida Governor Doyle E. Carlton hoping to raise alarm about the peace threatening http://www.myalcaponemuseum.com/id225.htm

Al Capone in Tintin

The "Popular culture" section says:

Well I have read every Tintin album, and am quite sure that Al Capone is the only real-life person ever to be even mentioned in a Tintin album, let alone depicted, whether in a real-life role or not. The comment needs to be made stronger. JIP | Talk 18:23, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Al Capone in Music

Al Capone was mentioned in the song "The Night Chicago Died"Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). by UK group Paper Lace in 1974 — Preceding unsigned comment added by AndersonTaxi (talk • contribs) 14:11, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Edits

I have made a few fixes to Film and television. Maymichael2 (talk) 15:24, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

more info on family

Shouldn't more information be included on Capone's family? It mentions a "first son", Albert. So presumably there is at least another son. Were these Capone's only children? Elsquared (talk) 08:07, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

See also Talk:Ralph Capone. The current article states the parents emigrated in 1893 to Fiume, than U.S.A., but in Ralph Capone it is written he was born in Campania in 1894.--Alexmar983 (talk) 22:32, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Illegal income

It is not correct that "Legally, Capone's profits from criminal activity did not have to be entered on a tax return until 1927, when the Supreme Court ruled that illegally earned income had to be declared". In 1927 the Supreme Court confirmed that illegally earned income had to be declared, which is obvious. That is not to say that until 1927 it did not have to be declared. That is a false conclusion.Royalcourtier (talk) 10:31, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

 Done The article incorrectly implied that there was a "loophole" for not reporting taxes; I have removed that. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 23:56, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 8 September 2015

The death date for Al Capone's wife is listed incorrectly on the sidebar. 130.113.57.104 (talk) 19:10, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Not done: that is not a death date, those are years she was married to him. Note the "m." before the dates. Cannolis (talk) 19:26, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Al Capone's height

He was actually 5'7. Source: wwi draft card : https://www.archives.gov/atlanta/wwi-draft/capone.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.62.240.100 (talk) 17:32, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Later Years and Death

Al Capone was actually buried at Mt. Olivet Cemetery in Chicago and was later moved to Mt. Carmel in Hillside, IL. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:449:4100:CA0F:7124:1D78:2014:8366 (talk) 12:33, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

"...Capone had the mental capability of a 12-year-old child."

This is misleading. The source says "In 1946, his physician and a Baltimore psychiatrist, after examination, both concluded Capone then had the mentality of a 12-year-old child." https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/famous-cases/al-capone

"Mentality" refers to temperament, whereas "mental capacity" refers to intelligence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.207.104.63 (talk) 22:02, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Good point; I've fixed that.  Done --Florian Blaschke (talk) 07:08, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

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M2 tank named after Capone

A curious thing worth noting: A U.S. M2 light tank bearing Mr. Capone's name, inscribed on its gun turret, England, 1941, 93.73.36.17 (talk) 17:56, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

Another instance of Caponomania in the allied troops, M4 Sherman gun barrel, 93.73.36.17 (talk) 12:36, 7 October 2016 (UTC)

Missing Baltimore and accountant life

Before he went to Chicago, he was an accountant in Baltimore. Here's one of many refs: http://www.baltimoresun.com/bs-mtblog-2010-09-al_capones_baltimore_ties-story.html 2600:8805:5800:F500:2533:7FBE:65A4:7CED (talk) 00:04, 23 October 2016 (UTC)

Billy McSwiggin

Al Capone didn't murder Billy McSwiggin. They were friends and McSwiggin was on his payroll. That item must be removed. Cynder40 (talk) 22:52, 30 November 2016 (UTC) McSwiggin was the childhood friend of two of the O'Donnell Brothers, who grew up to be rival gangsters to Capone. This is why he happened to be drinking at a Cicero tavern on the night Capone's men went gunning for the O'Donnells. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:3303:CD80:F54D:72F6:59C2:6072 (talk) 22:50, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

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Film and Television

Not one mention of Edward G Robinson, Little Caesar ? C'mon, that's impossible ! 116.231.74.1 (talk) 12:07, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Forgot Al Capone was also played by Titus Welliver in the film "Mobsters" also featuring Christian Slater, Patrick Dempsey and Richard Grieco. AngelDawn1 (talk) 19:42, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

What Supreme Court ruling? What basis of appeal?

From the intro:

After conviction, he replaced his old defense team with experts in tax law, and his grounds for appeal were strengthened by a Supreme Court ruling, but his appeal ultimately failed.

There's absolutely nothing in the rest of the article about this. What ruling? What basis? If there's no answer, this line has to be deleted. SilverbackNet talk 10:14, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 October 2017

Under the area of media portrayals 1987 The Untouchables played by Robert De Niro. <ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Untouchables_(film)/ref> 2601:241:8500:3420:E03D:D2CD:C3DB:6D6E (talk) 11:25, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

It's already there under film and TV in Popular culture. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 11:38, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Re. Al Capone's school

I can't edit this page but Al Capone did graduate from high school according to his grand niece in Uncle Al Capone - The Untold Story From Inside His Family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisallen88 (talk • contribs) 21:51, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2018

In the Film and Television section, please add the actor Michael Kotsohilis, who played Al Capone in the AMC miniseries "The Making of the Mob: Chicago" in 2016. Wereheim (talk) 17:54, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:04, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Update picture of cell 181

Hi,

Could anyone update the picture of cell 181 with this one?

Cell 181 in Alcatraz where Al Capone was imprisoned

thanks!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tres calcetines (talk • contribs) 17:14, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

 Done Tkbrett (talk) 17:33, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Capone was not "paroled."

In a letter written on April 15, 1939, Terminal Island Parole Officer Michael Abelsky points out to Parole Executive Myrl E. Alexander that, upon release from prison, Capone will not be "on parole" because he'd been sentenced in 1931, before the parole system was instituted (that happened in June of 1932). Instead, Capone owed his early release to his "good time," time earned for good behavior while in prison″. To see the original documents, click here. (More primary source Capone prison documents) Mark.research (talk) 02:40, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Parental immigration/emigration (Early Life)

The paragraph refers to the parents' leaving Italy 150 years ago for a new life in the USA. The subject in that paragraph is the parents and their position, in the past tense, at that time. In context, the correct word is emigrate, not immigrate, even though the wider article is about Al Capone in the USA. To use 'immigrate' is not balanced and shows a non encyclopedic one sided, USA centred, approach. This article is read by people outside the USA. Please, Vaselineeeeeeee, stop edit warring. The rest of that paragraph was misleading, about Fiume, and seems to have been tidied up, to an extent. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 19:40, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

How is using immigrated US centric? The way I see it, if you're moving from Italy to the US, you're emigrating from Italy, or immigrating to the US. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 19:44, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

They were immigrating from Italy to the US, and, they were emigrating from Italy to the US. Both are grammatically possible. Which to use depends entirely on the speaker's point of reference, whether he/the speaker is, metaphorically speaking, positioned in the US or in Italy. I think for that specific paragraph, the speaker is positioned in Italy because he is talking about what the parents were doing at that time (moving away from him) towards America - they were in Italy and were embarking on a ship to live in the US (hence emigrate is better/correct). Somebody standing in the US waiting for them to arrive would say the parents were in the process of immigrating (moving towards the speaker whose position and point of reference was in America). Often the distinction is subtle and both words can be used but in this case I think it is pretty clear that in that paragraph 'emigrate' is better. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 00:11, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Immigrate is the better known term and used more often. This occurred during great waves of immigration to North America, therefore it should be about the US. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★

Immigrate with an "I" means to come into and Emigrate with an "E" means to exit. It's that simple and depends neither upon the relation of an alleged speaker nor a writers preference to any country. It just depends on sentence structure plain and simple. I = into, E= exit.2601:8A:4302:9455:344F:74F1:60F4:5FC3 (talk) 07:33, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Al Capone is family name

Hello, I'm wondering why the title is "Al Capone" it must be (Alphonse Capone) because it is family name.--Waso99 (talk) 11:12, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

?? His first name is Alphonse, which has been commonly shortened to "Al". Capone is the family name or last name. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:15, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
But in Article was mentioned as (Capone) without "Al".. Waso99 (talk) 14:38, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Incorrect age

Al Capone was 43 when he was imprisoned not 33. The sentence "Capone was sent to Atlanta U.S. Penitentiary in May 1932, aged 33." is incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.67.2.241 (talk) 19:19, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

He was born in 1899, so do the math. 33 is correct. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 20:53, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Hypocorism "Al" is unneeded

The MOS at HYPOCORISM is unambiguous in this paradigm, explicitly stated as:

If a person has a common English-language hypocorism (diminutive or abbreviation) used in lieu of a given name, it is not presented between quotation marks or parentheses into or after their name. Example:

  • Tom Hopper's lead has simply: Thomas Edward Hopper.

Vaselineeeeeeee stated in a good faith misunderstanding of the applicability of MOS:FULLNAME, which only governs that the full name (if known) should be given and that using hypocorisms, if necessary, may also be given. The rules have to be followed in an iterative process as both apply, but in order. Saying that "Elizabeth Stamatina "Tina" Fey, the exact same is occurring here with Alphonse Gabriel "Al" Capone" is simply not true:

  1. Stamatina is not a common name, Alphonse is;
  2. Stamatina has no obvious nickname, unlike the dozens of varietals of Alphonse, Albert, Alonzo, Allan, Alfred type names which are all commonly given the nickname of "Al";
  3. and most importantly, it is misleading to state "the exact same is occurring here". It is not. His common name is not "Riel", it is "Al", just like Tina Fey's common name is not "Liz" or "Beth" or even "Stam", it is Tina. If Alphonse Gabriel Capone went by "Riel Capone" then the Tina Fey comparison is apt and the hypocorism would be necessary. But that is not the case, and so the example is not applicable.

The order of operations is important: 1, the full name should be given in the lede and 2, if necessary (as in not a common English-language nickname) the hypocorism should can be given in the lede. That's pretty explicitly stated, as I said from the beginning in the MOS Names section which you have only been selectively reading. JesseRafe (talk) 13:06, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Saying there is no obvious nickname is OR. The last four letters of Stamatina are Tina. It is possible Capone's nickname could've been Gabe. Tom Hooper had "Tom" in the name before you got to it [1] [2]. "If a person has a common English-language hypocorism (diminutive or abbreviation) used in lieu of a given name,[d] it is not presented between quotation marks or parentheses into or after their name." Tina is common in English, why is it being used in quotations? I'd rather see something used like "Alphonse Gabriel Capone [dob – dod], better known as Al Capone" which is permitted "Use formulations like the following (as applicable) for any kind of alternative name:" such as in Tim Allen. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 14:20, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
You're now just making spurious and bad faith arguments. Tom Hopper is the MOS example! And I've never edited that page, yet you make a provably false claim that I did. I didn't say Al Capone's nickname couldn't be Gabe, I said it wasn't Riel, which is the paradigm you chose based on Tina Fey and doubled-down above "the last four letters of Stamatina are Tina". Also, it's not OR, the MOS:HYPOCORISM note [d] specifically refers to the list of English hypocorisms and to use common sense (e.g. "Shortening, often to the first syllable"). Stamatina is itself a nickname for Stamatia, and neither are common in English - nor are they even common in Greek. That is why it needs to be spelled out for readers. Tim Allen is a completely different paradigm because the surname was changed and there is a spelling difference. Every example on the MOS policy page is carefully given and there is nuance between them. You seem to be grasping at straws. Please re-read the relevant MOS policy(ies) and refrain from making bad faith false accusations against other users and their edit histories. JesseRafe (talk) 16:20, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Look at my link, the page was Tom Hooper that you edited, not Tom Hopper - I’m not sure how I got to that page since it is Hopper that is used on the MOS, so sorry for that. Regarding Riel that wouldn’t be a plausible nickname since that is not a name in English or Italian so it would be very unlikely he would’ve gone by that, however Tina is common in English no matter if it was at the beginning or end of the name. (comment after the fact: no bearing as Alphonse isn't even Italian). Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:26, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
So you're just moving the goalposts and have no actual policy-grounded basis for your preference? I don't see you making any argument for why the MOS on hypocorisms or full names means we must put "Al" in the opener. Of course "Riel" isn't a plausible nickname. Of course "Al" is. That's exactly the point. JesseRafe (talk) 18:51, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Added comment: Riel isn't a plausible nickname because it is not a common English hypocorism, unlike Tina. This is just to show that Riel vs Tina is not an "apt" comparison. The policy is MOS:FULLNAME, which seems to somewhat contradict MOS:HYPOCORISM. Tina Fey has a given name and a middle name, as does Al Capone. In Tina's case, the nickname is taken from her middle name, and happens to use the last portion of that name to form a nickname, while in Al's case, the nickname is taken from his given name and happens to use the first portion of his name (not Phonse, which could very well also be a nickname). Your interpretation of the MOS is coming across that just because her nickname is formed from the last portion of one name, makes it "less obvious" than one that is formed from the first letters. This may be so, but is OR as the MOS does not state that this is the reason that her name is used as an example. The nickname is nonetheless an English name and by the MOS's guide, really shouldn't be there, but it is. I think the MOS should be clearer in what its intentions are with this example. Of course, I would support either using the nickname in quotes, but see using prose a better option. And if it is decided that this should not be the case, there should be an explicit example in red like "Alponse Gabriel "Al" Capone", as there is no such example currently. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 20:39, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Again, the appropriate policy is NOT MOS:FULLNAME - that has never been in dispute and his full name has never been removed. What was removed was his hypocorism, and in this case MOS:HYPOCORISM is the relevant policy. The MOS is clear, you just have a preference for violating it. The very top comment is the appropriate paradigm, Tom Hopper is the article name and Thomas Edward Hopper is the lede. As if that was not enough, there is also note d, which I also already quoted above and you still ignore both aspects of the relevant policy while rambling about Beth Fey. Liza Fey? Stammy Fey? It's unambiguous that this should not say "Al". JesseRafe (talk) 12:57, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
Both can apply. Lets look at the [d] note that considers Hypocorism#English, giving lists of common hypocorisms. For "Alfred" → Alf, Alfie, Fred, Freddy. Al is not listed. For "Alfonso" (Alphose not listed, less common) → Fon, Fonso, Fonsi, Poncho, Foncho. Al is not listed. This shows that more probable common nicknames for Capone could be Fon, etc. It is not as unambiguous as you say, and saying that is OR. Al is more common for Albert, as well as Bert. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 14:33, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
@JesseRafe: I suppose we can restart this. I've taken another look at the quote you provided before from the MoS "If a person has a common English-language hypocorism (diminutive or abbreviation) used in lieu of a given name, it is not presented between quotation marks or parentheses into or after their name." I think this should be made more clear. "Al" can be considered an English-language hypocorism, where it becomes somewhat grey is that it is used commonly for its English-language full name counterpart (Albert). It is not, however, commonly used for non-English names like Alphonse or Alfredo even though they begin with the letters "Al". Since Capone is American, it can be speculated how "Al" came to be, but it's still not a commonly known hypocorism for his name, Alphonse. Therefore, it is different than the obvious case of Thomas Hopper to Tom. Either the MoS should give another example under Hopper to incorporate English hypocorisms for non-English names, or transfer "English-language" from hypocorism to given name - this way it is clear we wouldn't need hypocorisms for obviously English given names, and we also wouldn't have to speculate whether a non-English given name is common or not. (You had stated Alphonse is a common name and Stamatina is not, which may be the case in North America due to the presence of French-influenced areas of Quebec and New Orleans, but that is not the case when we look at the use of "Al" for those same people. The point is, is that it can't be said that having an English hypocorism, "Tina", for Stamatina is alright (when it also goes against the wording of the MoS), but "Al" is not for Alphonse.
On a related note, if we did transfer "English-language" to given name, this would also allow common non-English originating diminutives (but commonly used in the English media to refer to someone, and also being one that may not be inherently known to the English public so would offer useful info - ie Salvatore Riina as Totò Riina - what does it matter if the hypocorism is not originally English, as long as it is used often by the English media)? (comment after the fact: looking at this again, the current wording of the MoS would allow Totò to be used since it is not an English-language hypocorism. (Still wouldn't allow Tina, however.)) Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 23:55, 31 October 2019 (UTC)
If we forget about the letter of the law for a second, I think the origin of a nickname is generally obvious to readers if it's the same or practically similar to the first syllable of a name. Even moreso in this case, when "Al" is also a familiar name in English (even if not usually short for Alphonse).—Bagumba (talk) 07:07, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
The apparent origin of the nickname shouldn't be the defining factor here, it's simply that "Al" is not a common diminutive for the name, Alphonse (ie an actual diminutive for Alphonse may be even more obvious than "Al"). If someone looks at Elizabeth Stamatina Fey - the first thing that would probably come into someone's head is Liz - but if they see "Tina" in the quotes they can still see, perhaps fairly obviously, that "Tina" had come from her other name listed "Stamatina". But of course, this is speculation, the same speculation that is used to determine the 'obviousness' of "Al". We should not speculate, and that is why a rewording of the MoS may play better. Another example, in addition to Riina, is Santino Corleone as Sonny Corleone. Sonny is an English diminutive (which would also go against MoS as Tina Fey does) - but when we come back to Capone the 'obviousness' factor (whatever that is, arbitrary) comes into play, right? Alphonse is a non-English name, that should be treated like non-English names that have English diminutives. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 14:52, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
I disagree. One does not need to be a rocket scientist or fluent in Russian to understand why Vladislav Khadarin's page might be titled Vlad Khadarin.—Bagumba (talk) 15:11, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
The difference in you example is, is that Vlad is actually a common hypocorism, in English and in Russian, which is not the case for Alphonse in either English or French or Italian. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 15:17, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
FWIW, the Vlad shortening was not listed at Hypocorism. At any rate, I maintain that dropping of end syllables is generally obvious, regardless of the name, e.g. Shaivonte Gilgeous-Alexander being Shai Gilgeous-Alexander or Willie Alford Thornton being Al Thornton.—Bagumba (talk) 15:40, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
Vaselineeeeeeee, you're also missing that nowhere in the MOS does it suggest that one has to start with the hypocorism and then deduce the full name. Ben can be Benjamin or Bennett. Liz or Beth or dozen others can come from Elizabeth or other names. Al can be from any of a dozen names (and their cognates). Moreover, as I said in the edit summary you reverted, we don't even need to analogize for the MOS with examples like Tom Hopper and Tina Fey, however apt (and not apt, respectively) the analogies are, but Alphonse Gabriel Capone is written directly into the MOS as an example of how to properly format an opening sentence full name first mention. It's pure conjecture on your part to imagine that the MOS author made the mistake of not writing Alphonse Gabriel "Al" Capone when that's what they meant if they only wanted to draw attention to the "sometimes known by the nickname "Scarface"," part. It also seems like you think the MOS needs to be reworded. If that is the case, it sounds like your issue is that the MOS as currently written does not confirm to your view on the matter, which thus illustrates that the MOS supports the claim that "Al" is not needed. The name "Al" is apparent, without any background knowledge of nickname history and distribution, to anyone with the English language capacity to read the article itself. JesseRafe (talk) 21:06, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
My issue with the MoS (and it should be yours too given your support for Tina) is that, in its current wording, would preclude the use of "Tina" for Tina Fey's article simply because it is an English-language hypocorism. Tina is a suffix of Stamatina, while Al is a prefix of Alphonse, both non-English names with English hypocorisms, so why is one right over the other - just because it is in the unsourced hypocorism page? Suffixes are sometimes used in English as well (Robert or Albert to Bert). It would be fantastic to not have these contradicting policies. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 21:45, 1 November 2019 (UTC)
I can only guess that you think "prefix" and "suffix" mean "beginning" and "end", which, please use the latter words in this conversation as these are not affixes, but parts of names and not all of them are even morphemes (Al is, Tina isn't). You are making many false equivalencies in your argument, as well as putting words in my mouth. "Stamatina" is irrelevant here because Capone's nickname is not "Riel" or even "Phonse". Also, you seem willing to die on the hill that "Stamatina" is as common a name as "Alphonse" with some OR about Quebecois... "Stamatina" is not a common name anywhere. It's not even a proper name, but a hypocorism itself for the also uncommon name, "Stamatia". There's probably more Alphonses than Stamatias in Greece, let alone English-speaking countries (regardless of how influential French Canadians were on their Italian immigrant populations). The rest of your argument still does not address the fact that "Alphonse" is easily deduced and if you have a problem with Fey's article it boils down to nothing more than WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS which shouldn't stop you from wanting to fix this article. JesseRafe (talk) 14:41, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
It's not irrelevant here—if it were why do you continue to use it as an argument to delete "Al" here?—if anything it would only help its inclusion as it is not about being common or uncommon (I just used the Quebec angle as an example since you seemed to talk about its commonality in relation to Alphonse), it's about how the hypocorism is derived/usage. See that at Talk:Al Pacino#Hypocorism "Al" obvious and unneeded. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 19:05, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Until a few months ago, it looks like the lead sentence without "Al" repeated had been the longstanding format since Muboshgu's edit to remove "Al" in 2017. For me, it follows common sense that "Al", a widely-used nickname, is derived from the first syllable of "Alphonse", even if Alphonse is not a common English name. I am not shocked by the name "Al", nor confused where it came from. Since it does not seem that a new consensus was formed to reintroduce "Al" here, I am removing it.—Bagumba (talk) 06:30, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

Check again for 'longstanding' - I see it being used way earlier than 2017. Furthest I went back was 2012 and it was there - felt like that was far enough. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 16:04, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
Per the policy WP:EDITCONSENSUS, Any edit that is not disputed or reverted by another editor can be assumed to have consensus. Should that edit later be revised by another editor without dispute, it can be assumed that a new consensus has been reached. A new consensus was reached in 2017, was longstanding, and this current proposal to add "Al" back has had no supporters other than yourself.—Bagumba (talk) 04:09, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
I think this issue is pretty clearly laid out by MOS:HYPOCORISM: if someone has a common English-language hypocorism, it would be excessive to put it in quotation marks. "Al" is a super common English-language hypocorism. It doesn't matter if the first name is Alan, Albert, Alfred, or Alphonse. Nobody is going to look at his name and wonder where he got "Al" from. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:03, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
If the main issue here is "Nobody is going to look at his name and wonder where he got "Al" from", then explain to me why Elizabeth Stamatina "Tina" Fey is permitted. Are our readers that stupid that they can deduce that Al came from the first two letters of one of his names, but are dumbfounded when they see Tina even though it's the last four letters from one of her names? No. Taking letters from the beginning or end of names are common in English as I pointed out somewhere here, and that basing it on the readers potential perplexion does not hold water when comparing it to this supposedly permitted example. The point is to cover all our bases without having to leave it up to our readers, especially for non-English names. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 18:21, 8 January 2020 (UTC)
A name shortened to its first syllable is the most common nickname. From Language and the Sexes, p. 22: The single most frequent device is: cut the first name to its first syllable ...—Bagumba (talk) 04:59, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
Like JesseRafe said, "Stamatina" isn't a common name, so "Tina" isn't a common hypocorism for it. "Al" for "Alphonse" is. Al D'Amato is another example. – Muboshgu (talk) 05:31, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
And last syllable exemptions don't apply to Capone. Feel free to discuss that at Fey's article.—Bagumba (talk) 05:45, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
Alphonse or Alfonse or Alfonso are not English names so the way hypocorisms are formed for these names can be and are different. Stamatina is not a common name, yes, and one could argue that Alphonse or Alfonse are not common names, especially in English. In the case for Alphonse, the common English method of shortening to the first syllable also works for Alphonse, luckily because English also uses "Al" for certain English names. Why doesn't it work for Stamatina? Because "Sta" would sound strange, so the obvious choice would be Tina, an English name. There is no bewilderment to the reader thinking "English commonly uses the first syllable for hypocorisms, why isn't it Sta, where is Tina coming from?!" Similarly, there would also be no confusion if "Fonse" had been his nickname. I understand that the guideline says "common English-language hypocorism", so one interpretation could mean that as long as the hypocorism itself can be found in English, then it can apply, however I personally think this interpretation for non-English names is not the right approach when keeping the worldwide audience in mind where this hypocorism is often not used. That is why, given this wording, I do not understand why "Tina" is permitted—it is a "common English-language hypocorism", and does not mention that there are any exemptions if the hypocorism comes from an uncommon name or a non-English name. Therefore, simply saying Stamatina is not a common name is not a sufficient justification for why the "common English-language hypocorism", "Tina" is used. I may start a discussion there because maybe the reasoning was that it's not technically their given name, but I wonder if it was their given name, if "Tina" would still be supported. Either way, I don't think not being the given name (the guide says "a given name" so it seems like it could suggest that more than one name that isn't a surname could be considered a middle name) would trump that Tina is still a "common English-language hypocorism". Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:01, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
We can all slug each other to death with interpretations of guidelines, but we are missing the big picture here. If a person clicks on a link titled Al Capone (or they type Al Capone in the WP search box), and then the page comes up with the title in level 1 font as Al Capone, how does it help the reader to see that third Al in the opening sentence? When I brought up the practical part of helping the reader in a previous discussion, I felt like that got unfairly dismissed. (Yes, someone created possibly the most unnecessary redirect on WP back in 2004, but I can't think of how a person would get there.) The opening sentences of biographies can turn into cluttered messes, so any time we can apply common sense to reduce needless clutter, we should. Larry Hockett (Talk) 22:26, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
Two letters are clutter? This isn't really a clutter issue—it's a hypocorism issue. Having the name stated three times could be said about any name in any article. The title is Al Capone because it is the common name, as is Tina Fey, as is Magic Johnson, as is Lucky Luciano, etc. Their birth names are not what their common name is, and are also not common hypocorisms for those respective names, and therefore are listed again in the lead along with their full names—MOS:FULLNAME covers this. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:45, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
"Magic" and "Lucky" are nicknames, not hypocorisms. Tina is apparently (according to hypocorism, anyway) only an English-language hypocorism for "Christina". – Muboshgu (talk) 22:56, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
Alphonse and its derivatives are not English names, but "Al" is still an English hypocorism for it. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:54, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
Doh, of course, my bad. Sure Tina is a hypocorism for Christina, Kristina, Cristina (also for Hristina, Martina, Valentina apparently)—however the guide only says a "common English-language hypocorism"; it does not state that it must be for an English name. The same situation for Alphonse and Al—a "common English-language hypocorism" but from a non-English name so I do not see the difference in how one is permitted over the other given. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 23:22, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

If we have to interpret guidelines and maintain consistency with all existing articles, we'll never get to consensus. Common sense should be applied to editing whether we are adding two letters or more. Common sense is a good guide for lots of other opening sentence decisions (need for an IPA, need for one nickname or even two, etc). Larry Hockett (Talk) 23:29, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

So, are we agreed that the consensus is the hypocorism is unneeded? – Muboshgu (talk) 23:50, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Absolutely unneeded. It's blatantly obvious from his full name why he was known as Al. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:53, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Nowhere in the MoS does it talk about relative terms like "blatantly obvious". Supposed "obviousness" should not be a talking point whatsoever (OR) - it's either a common English-language hypocorism or not (like John for Johnathan). Al is a common English-language hypocorism for such English names as in Albert, unlike Alphonse, but if we are to strictly base this from what the MoS says, a "common English-language hypocorism" (which does not take into account name origin), then, that is the reason for it's removal—but please stop touting the supposed obviousness of the hypocorism because that is nothing but OR for a non-English name like this that does not follow English-language hypocorism formation—that is not the reason. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 17:09, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
Frankly, anyone who can't work out why someone called Alphonse might be known as Al (whether English is their native language or not) should probably be concentrating on their colouring books and not looking at an encyclopaedia! We write for people with a modicum of intelligence and common sense. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:57, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 May 2020

Al Capone's face was slashed on December 8, 1918. It appeared in The Brooklyn Times Union on December 9, 1918.[3] Al Capone museum (talk) 01:01, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Partially done. While your website's commentary makes various assertions, there are several news clippings which are very useful. Since there are several sources that report different dates, we cannot objectively give one date - and so I have written that there are inconsistencies in the dates reported for this event. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 16:01, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

His Canadian operations should be mentioned

The article does not mention Canada, but perhaps it should.

Prohibition fortified the connection. Though Al Capone once quipped, “I don’t even know what street Canada is on,” the gangster ran cross-border bootlegging operations and kept hideaways in the north. Today, many Canadian cities and companies use visits by Capone to bolster their Chicago cred. "How a Town in Quebec Got the Nickname "Little Chicago"". Chicago Magazine. 22 January 2019. Retrieved 7 June 2020. Peter K Burian (talk) 15:20, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

If it can be integrated well with the info already there and has a bit of substance, this would be a nice addition. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 15:48, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
OK, I added it. I was surprised that there was no other discussion about Prohibition; Capone was certainly a major player in getting smugglers from Canada to take liquor to the US, particularly to Detroit. Peter K Burian (talk) 16:23, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
I also added a sentence about whisky from Canada in the Massacre section. Peter K Burian (talk) 16:30, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Victims

Can someone please change the date of Joe Howard's murder from May 7, 1923 to May 8, 1924? I am basing this on the article "Gunman Killed by Gunman" in The Chicago Tribune dated May 9, 1924. The faulty date appears years after the fact, in a special retrospective article from the Tribune that appeared in February of 1936. I assume the date from the cited book made use of the 1936 article, rather than the 1924 one. Here is a link to the 1924 article as archived on Newspapers.com: https://www.newspapers.com/image/355065819/. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lawrence Horner (talk • contribs) 07:07, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Death cause

As the cause of death is not particularly significant to Capone's notability, it ought not to be included here. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:39, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Since his illness indirectly had to do with syphilis, I'd argue that it is notable, sort of similar to Freddie Mercury, but since it wasn't directly caused by it, I suppose it doesn't have to be included. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 23:58, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
Way to sugar coat the truth, he was released from prison early because he was dying of untreated syphilis Kewalaka1 (talk) 14:37, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Pre-review comments

I was asked to take a look at this before going to GANR, by Vaselineeeeeeee. I actually read it myself relatively recently, and can find no glaring issues; if things get pulled up at review, they shouldn't be hard to fix. My primary suggestion would be to create an Al Capone in popular culture article; it would easily serve as a standalone and the lists here are too list-y and lengthy to be appropriate. Kingsif (talk) 19:46, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

List of victims?

I would say it is undue weight to emphasize one list from 1936 to such an extent. Either this section should be axed or else other more recent sources added to show what murders he is credited with in other sources. (t · c) buidhe 00:05, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

@Buidhe: What does the date of the source have to do with its verifiability? That is hardly a reason to remove it given the subject's time period, and as it is an WP:RS, the Chicago Tribune. Also, the list lists no WP:BLPs. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 00:56, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Vaselineeeeeeee, The issue is that there are many sources which have reported on Al Capone's murders,[4] but you only cite the list compiled by one source, giving it undue weight. Unless it can be shown with reliable sources that this 1 list is authoritative, Wikipedia shouldn't treat it as if it is. (t · c) buidhe 01:00, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
A better way to present it would be "Source X credits Capone with organizing 33 murders between dates A and B, but Source Z says ... " A lengthy list of non-notable killings could be covered at List of deaths attributed to Al Capone (t · c) buidhe 01:05, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestion. I'll review the sources and see what I can do in the coming days. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 01:07, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
I've taken relevant parts of the table and converted it to prose—which is almost always better than a table. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 22:01, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Al Capone/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jaguar (talk · contribs) 23:00, 5 February 2021 (UTC)


This looks good. I'll start leaving comments within a couple of days. ♦ jaguar 23:00, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay. I'll start the review tomorrow. ♦ jaguar 23:17, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Career
  • "he purchased a small house at 7244 South Prairie Avenue in the Park Manor neighborhood on the city's south side" - in
  • "Joe Howard was killed on May 7, 1923 after he tried to interfered with the Capone-Torrio bootleg" - interfere
  • "Torrio took over Colosimo's crime empire after Colosimo's murder on May 11, 1920" - might read better as Torrio took over Colosimo's crime empire after the latter's murder on May 11, 1920
  • "such as the makers of Vine-Glo (that wine could be made from)" - if Vine-Glo is already blue-linked then I don't think it's necessary to explain what it is in brackets
  • "Capone ally Ralph Sheldon attempted to kill" - Capone's
  • "They filed a writ of habeas corpus based on a Supreme Court ruling" - italicise
Failing health and death
  • "after a few weeks of inpatient and a few weeks of outpatient care" - no need for repetition
References
  • Where is the bibliography section? I notice many of the prominent harv citations don't link to anything

This article is excellently written overall, evidenced by the few minor points I raised above. The only thing preventing me from passing this outright was the broken citations. There are many harv citations with nothing linking them, so references to the books will have to be made. Very well done with this article, I enjoyed reviewing it. ♦ jaguar 12:25, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

@Jaguar: Thanks, I've fixed everything you pointed out, and added the harv citation which I forgot to transfer from Joe Aiello when I attributed some of the prose from there. If there are any other broken links please let me know. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 14:32, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
Thank you Vaseline. I really couldn't find much to pick with this one - you could consider taking this to FAC in the future. With that out of the way, I'll be happy to promote this. ♦ jaguar 21:26, 10 February 2021 (UTC)

Palm Island home

Al Capone house on Palm Island was not bought from Anheuser Busch senior. It was bought from Clarence Busch a developer — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6081:7A00:14EA:902E:BE63:FACC:245F (talk) 16:46, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Fixed. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 02:03, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Hey I wish I knew how to do this better but thank you for the reply As I said Clarence am bushed was from Pennsylvania a successful realtor and son of the state printer No relation to beer family (although it sounds good) Sites of the Frontier Forts of Pennsylvania). Clarence M. Busch. Pennsylvania 1896. State Printer of — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6081:7A00:14EA:34B1:7F5F:3963:A451 (talk) 02:50, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Well, the sources claim that this Clarence had a relation to the beer family. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 13:27, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

primary description as a “gangster” unwarranted

This description lacks a citation showing any criminal convictions related to organized crime. Any general reference to Capone as a “gangster” should be changed to “reputed gangster” or “alleged gangster”. Joey.J (talk) 16:05, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Let's not pretend. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 21:28, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Wrong caption with photo

Sorry if I'm editing this the wrong way, but I must say that the photo of a child with a middle aged woman, the caption claiming its a young Al Capone with his mother Teresa....thats NOT Al Capone. The clothes the kid is wearing is not the style of when Al was a child. Clearly its from later years. Its possible that the child pictured is Al's son Sonny. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.123.152.65 (talk) 01:57, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

I would agree 100% that the clothing and hair styles are completely wrong for a photo supposedly dating to about 1903-04. George B. Parous (talk) 02:08, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Ce

There's an extraneous > in the refs at ...to arrest Aiello himself and bring him to the South Clark Street police station.[51]>[55]. 94.13.141.49 (talk) 05:46, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Suggested edit for Alcatraz

The text states that Alcatraz is "off the coast of San Francisco", which suggests it's in the ocean. Not so. Alcatraz in in the middle of San Francisco Bay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.138.94.11 (talk) 00:20, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

This suggested edit was made OVER SIX YEARS AGO, and its stated fact is correct. Alcatraz is most definitely NOT "off the coast of San Francisco". It is IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BAY of San Francisco. Why has the edit not been adhered to? Such a silly oversight is not useful to Wiki's reputation. 2600:1700:BF10:69D0:5C05:CCD9:16CA:2FC0 (talk) 12:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 November 2023

place of birth should say Brooklyn, New York, U.S.A. not New York city Crymslavek (talk) 18:53, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - FlightTime (open channel) 18:59, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Ghosts

Ghosts are here but we can't see them. 2601:601:D00:90F0:A166:9227:5C35:1AAA (talk) 03:57, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Violent Temper

Capone was undeniably a rule breaker. The article now says this about young Al Capone. "Al Capone showed promise as a student but had trouble with the rules at his strict parochial Catholic school. His schooling ended at the age of 14 after he was expelled for hitting a female teacher in the face. Capone worked at odd jobs around Brooklyn, including a candy store and a bowling alley. From 1916 to 1918 [he would have been 17-19] he played semi-professional baseball. Following this, Capone was influenced by gangster Johnny Torrio, whom he came to regard as a mentor."

His career as a gangster and gangland boss is well covered in the article. I'm curious about how he was portrayed in De Palma's crime drama The Untouchables, where the Capone character, incensed & boiling at his tax-evasion conviction, responds obstreperously toward the judge, and must be physically dragged from the court room (with difficulty) by bailiffs. Does anyone know if that actually happened?

Or did Capone behave with self-restraint and decorum in court?Joel Russ (talk) 23:34, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 January 2024

Chicken18901 (talk) 13:01, 24 January 2024 (UTC) During the arrest of Al Capone the IRS arrested Capone threatening to Bombing his home and harm him. Al Capone attempted to escape arrest but was then intercepted by the IRS and put under the custody of the police. Interrogated by IRS and police his family was put in a hostage situation. Capone eventually told information on local rumrunners, and the gang but the torture continued. By this he considerably Capone became clinically insane and mental reports read that "Al Capone former gangster is acting extremely aggressive and paranoid. It seems he believes he has a cellmate of bad intent. Both noises and rattling is heard in his cell, especially at night"

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 14:45, 24 January 2024 (UTC)
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