Talk:Appeal to the Great Spirit

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Untitled[edit]

If anyone has a picture of the Muncie sculpture for use here- that would be terrific. OckRaz 20:24, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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In popular culture -- Braindead[edit]

Is this the statue outside the protagonist's office window in "Braindead"? We only see the horse's rear end, but that would be appropriate to the satirical tone of the series. If I remember correctly, there's also a mention of the title of the piece which does not actually refer to the statue itself. TheLastWordSword (talk) 19:50, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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A mystery, 1909 or...1908[edit]

Was showing some photos I had taken of the statue and noticed one taken of the base of the sculpture inscribed 'C. E. Dallin 1908' followed by a copyright mark. The '8' does not look altered, with no room to have made a '9' an '8'. The article states the statue was cast in Paris in 1909. Here's a source that says 1908, which mentions that it won an award in Paris in 1909. On the Commons page for the article the information bar under 'Manufacturer' says "Jaboeuf et Rouard (1908)". So, if visibly dated 1908, well...1908? Randy Kryn (talk) 18:59, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

After just adding the Commons data, getting close to boldly changing the date. Another Believer, thoughts? Randy Kryn (talk) 19:32, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Philadelphia Inquirer, 2 February 1908, p. 12, "Of Art and Artists." A review of the Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts 103rd Annual Exhibition: "The sculpture includes also Cyrus E. Dallin's 'Appeal to the Great Spirit,' some interesting things by Andrew O'Connor and six small statuettes by Alex Stirling Calder . . ." Wfbrooks (talk) 19:53, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Thank you, combined with the other things that should do it. Somehow I missed the year on the base when taking the photo, although I read it and was looking right at it. But could the Inquirer mention pertain to a smaller original version (and even if so, would that change the date of the larger statue inscribed with the 1908 date to 1909?). Randy Kryn (talk) 20:08, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's possible, of course. But the Academy exhibition was always a major event, and I think it is unlikely that a maquette would have been exhibited. If you want certainty, it would be worth emailing Emily Burns at Auburn University; she's an art historian and the author of a 2018 article entitled "Political Contestation in Cyrus Dallin's American Indian Monuments." (Unfortunately that article is still embargoed, so I can't access it in the usual repositories.)Wfbrooks (talk) 21:02, 19 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Will tuck that away and give it a go if needed. May have some of the data already, as we were given quite are few Dallin and Appeal to the Great Spirit articles and documents at a Wikipedia session at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts during the recent North American Wikimedia Conference, which actually held a session on this statue. Will dig my copies out and have a look if they cover the dating. The large cast at the Museum contains the 1908 date, but that's personal research, so I'm glad a few sources have been brought forward. Let's get this one right either way, it's a great statue and a Boston treasure. Randy Kryn (talk) 00:32, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sculptor career revert[edit]

Per WP:BRD, Randy Kryn, can you please explain why you think the biographical note "Throughout his career, he often made statues of Native Americans intended for non-Native audiences." is "obvious"? To me, that would only be true to some US readers, and I think the rest of the wiki audience would benefit from it. —Wingedserif (talk) 12:23, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If a statue is on land in urban settings and not on an Indian reservation then it is intended for all to enjoy, not only Native American audiences. And even if the quote is relevant, which is a actually a stretch (like saying "statues of Gandhi are often meant for non-Indian audiences") then it should be on the artist's page and not on an individual work article. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:33, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And why would non-US-based readers know that? Even then, we do state the WP:OBVIOUS in our articles. The sentence I had added 1. is based on a high-quality academic source and 2. connects this statue to the overall work of the artist, which is not outside the scope of the article; one sentence is hardly too much biographic detail. What are you basing your estimate of "relevance" on (ie, source or policy, please)? —Wingedserif (talk) 01:16, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]